Warren Burroughs, the Popcorn Man

[Bill Fite]

12 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

 

I haven't moved any goalposts.  The claim is that Oswald had HALF of a dollar bill.  Please point out where any such thing is listed among the inventory of items on his person when arrested.  Betcha can't.

 

IIRC - you previously stated that the only evidence of a torn dollar bill was made up by Armstrong.

So, yeah, you are moving the goal posts, since the FBI report lists a torn dollar bill notation.

[Jean Ceulemans]

On 12/14/2023 at 12:33 PM, Jean Ceulemans said:

below Oswald is says something like "holder (left)" or "folder (left)",

It's written on the back of perhaps half a 1/2 library card ? or perhaps the Texas Local Board 1/2 card ? (last item of the John Armstrong list I'll attach from Armstrong/5 wallets folder at Baylor - but that does not contain this copy.... so I'm not 100% sure)   

To me in first  it looked like an instruction for someone to fill in something perhaps... written on the back of that half "thing".  Bottom looks like "money" but not sure. The writings could also be the init. of a detective for all I know

I would think it is that 1/2 Texas Local Board card, but who has written on the back ? I don't know, was that backside blank ?  No idea...  Someone could have just written on it was the "(left)" side of that card, "Lee Oswald"'s name as the "holder"

In the pictures I find I am unable to find a better copy of that specific 1/2 card for some reason

My own notes are not very helpfull... Isomething like  unID/JA?/ask DJ? That would be John Armstrong ? Ask David ?  It was a copy from a file that was not related to it in now way, slipped in by accident perhaps, it should be in one of the other files as well but I still haven't found it there (unless it's indeed the Local Board card and the copy was put in another file.    

 

@David Josephs do you have some more info on this item ? 

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Jean Ceulemans

[David Josephs]

@Bill Fite  my friend.. read back on BB.  "Same as it ever was"

@Jean Ceulemans  Just getting back... let me look into it... and talk to John about what he remembers.

DJ

[Tom Gram]

2 hours ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

below Oswald is says something like "holder (left)" or "folder (left)",

It's written on the back of perhaps half a 1/2 library card ? or perhaps the Texas Local Board 1/2 card ? (last item of the John Armstrong list I'll attach from Armstrong/5 wallets folder at Baylor - but that does not contain this copy.... so I'm not 100% sure)   

To me in first  it looked like an instruction for someone to fill in something perhaps... written on the back of that half "thing".  Bottom looks like "money" but not sure. The writings could also be the init. of a detective for all I know

I would think it is that 1/2 Texas Local Board card, but who has written on the back ? I don't know, was that backside blank ?  No idea...  Someone could have just written on it was the "(left)" side of that card, "Lee Oswald"'s name as the "holder"

In the pictures I find I am unable to find a better copy of that specific 1/2 card for some reason

My own notes are not very helpfull... Isomething like  unID/JA?/ask DJ? That would be John Armstrong ? Ask David ?  It was a copy from a file that was not related to it in now way, slipped in by accident perhaps, it should be in one of the other files as well but I still haven't found it there (unless it's indeed the Local Board card and the copy was put in another file.    

I think it says ”Please” or “Place”, then a word that’s like “h__t”, followed by “in Lee Oswald Folder (Left)”, so I’m guessing that the handwriting is from an FBI agent or something. It does look like it could be the left half of the Local Board card. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Tom Gram

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Jean Ceulemans said:

@David Josephs do you have some more info on this item ? 

Jean... do you have any idea of the source?  What is the file name of the image?

[David Josephs]

And no... the image of the torn bill was not one of the bills as written which Oswald had in his posession.

"NOTE: After his arrest, the police found two halves of two different dollar bills in his wallet (see below). This was a CIA method of clandestine contact (review CIA memorandum of 7/9/63 below). Wherever and whenever Oswald met his contact, this person would provide confirmation of his identity with the other half of these dollar bills. Curiously, neither of these items were listed on the police inventory of 11/23/63, the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63 (Oswald's so-called possessions), nor were they photographed. At the National Archives, in Adelphi, MD, I inspected and handled each item of inventory listed on the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63. These items were not among the inventory."

https://harveyandlee.net/November/November_22.htm

Only the handwritten note describes the bills found in Oswald's possession

[David Josephs]

@Tom Gram  @Jean Ceulemans

I believe that's HIDELL written under Oswald.

I have a note out to John.

==edit - but do see the "folder" as you mention...   give me some time

Edited December 14, 2023 by David Josephs

[Bill Brown]

2 hours ago, Bill Fite said:

IIRC - you previously stated that the only evidence of a torn dollar bill was made up by Armstrong.

So, yeah, you are moving the goal posts, since the FBI report lists a torn dollar bill notation.

 

Perhaps you need to pay better attention to what it was that I said exactly before you keep wasting my time having to correct you.

 

I said the only evidence of a dollar bill TORN IN HALF comes from Armstrong.  Apparently you're one of those who don't understand the difference between a dollar bill having a tear in it..... versus..... a half of a torn in half bill.

 

[Bill Brown]

1 hour ago, David Josephs said:

And no... the image of the torn bill was not one of the bills as written which Oswald had in his posession.

"NOTE: After his arrest, the police found two halves of two different dollar bills in his wallet (see below). This was a CIA method of clandestine contact (review CIA memorandum of 7/9/63 below). Wherever and whenever Oswald met his contact, this person would provide confirmation of his identity with the other half of these dollar bills. Curiously, neither of these items were listed on the police inventory of 11/23/63, the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63 (Oswald's so-called possessions), nor were they photographed. At the National Archives, in Adelphi, MD, I inspected and handled each item of inventory listed on the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63. These items were not among the inventory."

https://harveyandlee.net/November/November_22.htm

Only the handwritten note describes the bills found in Oswald's possession

 

"After his arrest, the police found two halves of two different dollar bills in his wallet"

 

Nonsense.  Armstrong's opinion is not a source.  There is nothing to suggest that Oswald had two halves of two different dollar bills on his person when arrested.  If there was evidence of such, then it would have long been put forth by now.  Think.

 

[Joe Bauer]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:55 PM, Bill Brown said:

 

Re: Jack Davis and Oswald sitting beside himself and another guy, consider the possibility that Oswald wanted to appear to be part of a small group of patrons versus a man sitting by himself.  Just sayin'.

 

Reasonable speculation BB.

And maybe Oswald left his theater seats and went back out into the candy concession area looking for someone who he thought might be there as he wasn't finding them inside? Or, maybe Oswald simply had to use the bathroom?

Jack Davis said he didn't remember Oswald holding a popcorn container and considering Oswald wasn't gone that long when he left to go into the concession area, he certainly didn't eat the entire container there before coming back in the theater yes?

Oswald's getting up and re-seating himself several times seems verified by the fact that Davis noticed this odd behavior enough to recount it with some detail when questioned about what he saw regarding Oswald in the brief time they were both in the same seating area. It takes something quite unusual to distract someone who is watching a film in a darkened theater imo.

And this 22 year old candy concession worker Warren "Butch" Burroughs kid didn't sound like the brightest bulb in the room.

Maybe kind of immature or even a little handicapped mentally? Read his Warren Commission testimony below.

And it sounds as if the more mature 40 year old Julia Postal talked to him in that vein? "Now come on Butch..."

Not personally disparaging the young man Burroughs, however I sense this older theater goer Jack Davis is simply more believable.

Burrough's WC testimony:

"Mr. BALL. You quit in the ninth grade?
Mr. BURROUGHS. I stopped in the ninth grade, but I'm going to private school 2 days a week over in Highland Park.
Mr. BALL. You are now?
Mr. BURROUGHS. Yes; I am now.
Mr. BALL. How old are you?
Mr. BURROUGHS. Twenty-two.
Mr. BALL. What have you been doing most of your life what kind of work have you been doing?
Mr. BURROUGHS. I worked at the Texas Theatre and I helped my dad out as an apprentice, he is an electrician.
Mr. BALL. Were you ever in the Army?
Mr. BURROUGHS. No, sir----they tried to get me, but I couldn't pass----I passed the physical part, but the mental part----I didn't make enough points on the score, so the board sent me a card back and classifying me differently. "

 

 

[Bill Fite]

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

 

Perhaps you need to pay better attention to what it was that I said exactly before you keep wasting my time having to correct you.

 

I said the only evidence of a dollar bill TORN IN HALF comes from Armstrong.  Apparently you're one of those who don't understand the difference between a dollar bill having a tear in it..... versus..... a half of a torn in half bill.

 

Well.... nah -- the note on the report doesn't say 'Partially torn Dollar' - it says 'Torn'.

And unless John Armstrong filed that report in 1963, he's not the source:

A quick search on DuckDuckGo for images of "Torn Dollar Bills" includes these results with their photo titles among others:

Torn Money - 

Torn Money Stock Photos, Pictures & Royalty-Free Images - iStock

Torn Dollar Bank Note 

[Jonathan Cohen]

Haven't you ever had a torn dollar bill in your wallet that wasn't actually torn into two distinct pieces?

[Bill Fite]

13 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Haven't you ever had a torn dollar bill in your wallet that wasn't actually torn into two distinct pieces?

 

You're question is irrelevant to the discussion.

Are those images from DuckDuckGo labeled torn or not?

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

Just now, Bill Fite said:

You're question is irrelevant to the discussion.

Are those images from DuckDuckGo labeled torn or not?

Are you serious? Who cares what a search engine labels them as. Are you actually trying to claim that there's no distinction between a dollar bill with a tear in it and a dollar bill that is torn completely into two or more pieces?

[Bill Fite]

26 minutes ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Are you serious? Who cares what a search engine labels them as. Are you actually trying to claim that there's no distinction between a dollar bill with a tear in it and a dollar bill that is torn completely into two or more pieces?

LOL -- I've shown the common usage of the word torn wrt dollar bills.

I believe it's what the posters of the images labels them as.