Vickie Adams Interview

[David Von Pein]

8 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

And in the end Oswald tried to save a few cents on his bus ticket while being hunted.

Huh??  What's that got to do with his blue jacket?

Are you suggesting he had a "Get On The Bus Free" ticket in his blue jacket?

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Why not? We know Baker & Truly DID briefly emerge on the 4th floor during their journey thru the building.

We merely need to accept these possible alternative scenarios:

1. Baker & Truly were both inside the lunchroom with Oswald on the 2nd floor at the precise moment when Adams & Styles were also on the 2nd floor making their mad dash toward the ground floor.....and, therefore, A&S didn't see B&T (or Oz).

or....

2. Dorothy Garner got the chronology mixed up SEVEN MONTHS LATER (on June 2, 1964) when she tried to reconstruct the timeline for Assistant United States Attorney Martha Joe Stroud.

1. Baker did not enter the lunchroom. Baker called Oswald over to Baker.

2. The only way that Garner could have gotten the chronology wrong is if Garner saw Baker & Truly before Miss Adams went downstairs. In which case Adams (& Styles) would have been trailing well behind Garner. Nope, duznt add up.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

7 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Huh??  What's that got to do with his blue jacket?

Are you suggesting he had a "Get On The Bus Free" ticket in his blue jacket?

 

Oswald got a potential refund on his original bus ticket in Elm St when he got off & got a taxi.

The "refund" or whatever it is called would have enabled him to save a few cents if he caught a bus to his safe house (which he didnt)(too late)(damn Tippit).

[David Von Pein]

6 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

1. Baker did not enter the lunchroom. Baker called Oswald over to Baker.

Any other nitpicky points you want to bring up?

I've got to give you credit though, Marjan. You've posted more hunks of pure speculation (aka: fantasy) in these last 24 hours on this forum than anyone else I can ever think of. Congrats.

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

1 minute ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Oswald got a potential refund on his original bus ticket in Elm St when he got off & got a taxi.

But that was only AFTER he left the TSBD. You've got him desperately trying to get his jacket BEFORE he ever switched from the bus to the taxi. You've got your chronology all messed up here.

 

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

2 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Marjan:

your timeline suggests that Adams' and Styles' descending followed Oswald's who already was on the second floor when Adams and Styles started their descend. But Adams and Styles left the 4th floor within about 10 seconds after the last shot and had a shorter path to the stairwell than Oswald who also needed to stash his rifle among the book boxes. Thus, Adams and Styles could only be ahead of Oswald. However, they would be able to hear Oswald if he followed him about three flights of stairs (one flight of stairs takes about 7 seconds to pass) as the stairs produced all kind of noises. 

Mrs. Garner moved to the vicinity of the stairwell right after Adams and Styles left and therefore, she was able to register Baker and Truly as they ascended the stairs; this is entirely all right. However, Garner did not hear or see anyone descending the stairs after Adams and Styles left and before Baker and Truly reached the fourth floor. 

The only solution to accommodate these circumstances is that nobody was descending through the stairwell after the shooting, neither Oswald nor anyone else. 

Read my long explanation of Oswald's use of the stairs earlier in this thread. This is the only solution. No other solution exists or possibly exists.

Re Adams & Styles....... they left the window after say 10 sec. They firstly went to their office lift & then lost another say 10 sec. Then they probly exited the lift area & entered the storage area via a door near their lift (rather than going back into their office & using their office door to enter the storage area). Then once in the storage area they would have klomped to the rear stairs (praps they intended to use the lifts if available)(they were not available). Garner (in the office) would have heard their klomping as they passed along the office/storage wall along the near side of the storage area, & Garner herself then entered the storage area (to look throo the western windows to see the commotion near the grassy knoll carpark).

Adams' & Styles' klomping would have drowned out any noise made by Oswald. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[David Von Pein]

9 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Re Adams & Styles....... they left the window after say 10 sec.

Why have you decided to just make up this "10 seconds" figure? You know full well that Adams testified she stayed at the 4th-floor window for "15 to 30 seconds". So why are you now pretending it was as little as ten?

Plus, there's this 2011 info from conspiracy theorist Sean Murphy:

"Sandra Styles claimed she told Ernest what she was now telling me: that she and Victoria Adams did *not* go to the rear stairs anything close to as quickly as Victoria had claimed."  -- Sean Murphy; January 27, 2011

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

17 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

But that was only AFTER he left the TSBD. You've got him desperately trying to get his jacket BEFORE he ever switched from the bus to the taxi. You've got your chronology all messed up here.

 

No, i have Oswald thinking about getting his jacket while Oswald is still on the 2nd floor (after Baker & Truly had passed).

Oswald abandons his jacket, & takes the front stairs. But, after getting to the front doors without any further trouble, Oswald realizes that he can (a) walk throo the first floor to the Domino Room to get his jacket, or (b) he can exit the main doors & walk around outside to the Houston Dock, & enter there (like he does each morning) to get his jacket, which he does (except that while walking north up Houston he sees Officer Barnett, who looks vicious)(so, its goodbye jacket)(& he duz a u-turn & walks south then crosses Houston at Elm then catches the bus).

 

[David Von Pein]

5 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

No, i have Oswald thinking about getting his jacket while Oswald is still on the 2nd floor (after Baker & Truly had passed).

But the jacket can't possibly have the bus transfer in it that he got from McWatters. So what the heck are you talking about (re: Oswald wanting to save money on his bus fare before he ever exits the TSBD)?

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

32 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Why have you decided to just make up this "10 seconds" figure? You know full well that Adams testified they stayed at the 4th-floor window for "15 to 30 seconds". So why are you now pretending it was as little as ten?

Plus, there's this 2011 info from conspiracy theorist Sean Murphy:

"Sandra Styles claimed she told Ernest what she was now telling me: that she and Victoria Adams did *not* go to the rear stairs anything close to as quickly as Victoria had claimed."  -- Sean Murphy; January 27, 2011

The critical thing is that Adams & Styles trailed Oswald by a certain time (on the stairs)(at the 4th floor). I forget my calculations re what exactly that certain time could be. It might have been at least 15 sec, & at most 30 sec. A 15 sec window. 

The next critical thing re timing is the time taken for Oswald to get to the 4th floor.

If u insist that Oswald took 30 sec after his shot-2 to get to the 4th floor then i would say that Adams took 45 to 60 sec (to get to the stairs).

If u insist that Oswald took 40 sec, then i would say that Adams took 55 to 70 sec. Etc etc.

My ploy also works for 50 sec & for 60 sec etc. But then we start to run into problems for the timing of Baker getting to the 2nd floor. But here again i can invoke a similar ploy. If u insist that Oswald took zzz seconds to get to the 2nd floor then i can simply say that Baker took zzz sec plus say 20 sec.

The acceptable trailing time window for Adams' going down the stairs is critical, but the overall times for the movements of Baker Oswald & Adams are not very critical (except that if u stretch one then u have to stretch the others).

In other words, the exact time that Adams stayed at the window need not be critical, ie it need not be fatal to my theory re everybody's timings, it merely affects the probable times for Oswald & for Baker (& their allowable times/timings are in the plus or minus say 30 sec area, before they start to stink).

Edited December 30, 2023 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

17 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

But the jacket can't possibly have the bus transfer in it that he got from McWatters. So what the heck are you talking about (re: Oswald wanting to save money on his bus fare before he ever exits the TSBD)?

 

Aha, i see what u mean. I mentioned the bin & the bus ticket transfer to help to explain why Oswald would lose sleep if he lost that jacket, i didnt mean that the ticket was in the jacket. LOL.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Any other nitpicky points you want to bring up?

I've got to give you credit though, Marjan. You've posted more hunks of pure speculation (aka: fantasy) in these last 24 hours on this forum than anyone else I can ever think of. Congrats.

Its like a jigsaw puzzle. But i have the advantage that i can easily see all of the valid pieces, while everyone else is happily assembling mainly faux pieces, making faux pictures.

Anyhow, show me one piece of valid jigsaw that duznt fit my picture. One strike & my theory (picture) is out (or i suppose that it could be said that i have a number of theories/pictures)(in which case that particular theory/picture is out).

[Roger Odisio]

7 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Its like a jigsaw puzzle. But i have the advantage that i can easily see all of the valid pieces, while everyone else is happily assembling mainly faux pieces, making faux pictures.

Anyhow, show me one piece of valid jigsaw that duznt fit my picture. One strike & my theory (picture) is out (or i suppose that it could be said that i have a number of theories/pictures)(in which case that particular theory/picture is out).

To get this thread back on track:  After isolating Adams by ignoring the corroboration of Styles and Garner, what lie did the WC use to discredit her? 

(1)  she claimed to see S&L when reaching the first floor but they weren't there yet, so she must have descended later than she claimed, after Oswald. This lie requires also lying about when S&L returned to the first floor.  In the '66 interview Adams points out that in his testimony Lovelady said he went to check on their timing in returning to the building.  But that was not followed up in his testimony (they knew by then it was a hot potato) and was not mentioned in the WR.  In the '66 interview Adams thought that was ignored because it would  have confirmed her version of the timing. 

(2)  Or the version told by Ernest about 40 years later.  Adams never said she saw S&L when she got to the first floor.  That was later inserted into her testimony because the WC already had the lie ready that S&L were still minutes away from being on the first floor, which they asserted in the WR. Ernest apparently accepted that as fact.  The fact the stenotapes of all three people, Adams, Shelley, and Lovelady, are missing from NARA so that what each said can't be verified, particularly what Adams said, lends credence to this story of subsequent insertion..

A couple of things not yet mentioned. In his book, Ernest twice mentioned Adams being on the show with Lane and Sahl. He knew about it, if most of us didn't. He says they were mostly interested in her claim she saw Ruby outside the TBD, but not her story of coming down the steps.  She was so discouraged--she wanted to tell that because she understood how important it was--she stopped talking about the JFKA after that, according to Ernest.

When, during the show, Adams volunteers about seeing Lovelady on the first floor, and that in his testimony he says he looked for a clock to see the time, Lane interrupts her to ask what's the relevance of that.  The timing of our trip, she says.  OK, Lane says and the segment soon ends.  As far as we know there was no followup to what Adams was telling them. Apparently Lane and Sahl didn't understand the importance of the timing of her trip down the stairs.

The second thing:  A few months after the murder the cop who was handcuffed to Oswald when he was murdered, showed up unannounced at Adams' apartment.  She had just moved in the day before and had not told anyone.  She was shook.

He told her he had to interview her again because the police had a fire that destroyed a bunch of records. A blatant lie.

He was obviously there to probe her story for the best way to discredit her. WC staff knew by then what an important stumbling block she was to their story.  I believe the first official mention of Adams saying she saw S&L on the first floor when she got there was in the cop's report of his visit with her.

So which of the above concoctions is most likely what happened? Or does it matter as long as one of them is reasonably accurate? I'm not sure, but as I said there is other evidence that shows Oswald did not come down those steps.

 

 

 

 

[K K Lane]

1 hour ago, Roger Odisio said:

He was obviously there to probe her story for the best way to discredit her.

Why is it so obvious?

[Roger Odisio]

11 minutes ago, K K Lane said:

Why is it so obvious?

Start with the ludicrous reason he gave for being there and interviewing her once again. She had been interviewed several times already by the police, FBI, Secret Service, etc. and told them everything she knew.  He said those interviews had been destroyed in a fire.  Odd explanation. Not true and easily checked.

So why was he there?  By that time, they had a clear idea of the problem she presented for their Oswald story. She told them she went down the back stairs at around the same time as they claimed that Oswald did, but had not seen or heard him.  She had corroboration from Styles who went with her and her supervisor Garner.

They had already been following her since the murder, which is how they knew about her new apartment when she hadn't yet told anybody about it, or filed change of residence information at the Post Office. They needed to discredit her story.  So they sent the cop to probe her story looking for ways to discredit it. Her formal interview by WC staff was still a few months away.