Vickie Adams Interview

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

Ok, i do see a real problem, the only problem.

Vickie Adams' conversation……..

(18:14) … …… i left the building from a dock about here……………… now there are 2 witnesses according to the WR who say that the first 5 minutes of the assassination they were watching the rear of the building & they saw no one enter or leave………. these 2 witnesses i saw who were standing here they were talking together & were not even looking at the building……. one was a Dallas policeman & the other one was a man in a suite…… & who they were i don’t know……. but anyhow i proceeded back this way & around the building……….. (19:02).

 

Who was the man in a suite in the area of the dock in the first few minutes.

Officer Barnett was the policeman.

About 60 yd north of the building we had Rackley (or was it Rachley) that watched for say 10 minutes, & he said that he did not see anyone come out of the dock in the first few minutes at least.

Two News reporters parked near the dock say 5 minutes after the shots.

So, who was the man in a suite?

How did he get there before Adams?

[Gerry Down]

17 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Ok, i do see a real problem, the only problem.

Vickie Adams' conversation……..

(18:14) … …… i left the building from a dock about here……………… now there are 2 witnesses according to the WR who say that the first 5 minutes of the assassination they were watching the rear of the building & they saw no one enter or leave………. these 2 witnesses i saw who were standing here they were talking together & were not even looking at the building……. one was a Dallas policeman & the other one was a man in a suite…… & who they were i don’t know……. but anyhow i proceeded back this way & around the building……….. (19:02).

 

Who was the man in a suite in the area of the dock in the first few minutes.

Officer Barnett was the policeman.

About 60 yd north of the building we had Rackley (or was it Rachley) that watched for say 10 minutes, & he said that he did not see anyone come out of the dock in the first few minutes at least.

Two News reporters parked near the dock say 5 minutes after the shots.

So, who was the man in a suite?

How did he get there before Adams?

Barnett was gone by that stage. I think she is referring to some policeman in the railroad yard north of the tsbd. And the policeman is probably talking to one of the deputy sheriffs who ran back there, up from the grassy knoll.

Adams says in the interview she stayed at the window for up to 60 seconds. And according to styles they went to the elevator. Prob spent another 30 seconds trying to get the elevator to work before deciding to use the back stairs. All this allows LHO to get well down past the 4th floor. So no mystery here.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

19 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

Barnett was gone by that stage. I think she is referring to some policeman in the railroad yard north of the tsbd. And the policeman is probably talking to one of the deputy sheriffs who ran back there, up from the grassy knoll.

Adams says in the interview she stayed at the window for up to 60 seconds. And according to styles they went to the elevator. Prob spent another 30 seconds trying to get the elevator to work before deciding to use the back stairs. All this allows LHO to get well down past the 4th floor. So no mystery here.

I think u are correct that Adams saw the man in a suite after she had rounded the building, not near the dock. Yes that makes more  sense.

But re Adams & Styles taking an extra 90 sec or so to get going........  nope, duznt work.......  the problem is that Garner followed not very far behind Adams & Styles, but Garner still got to see Baker & Truly on the 4th floor......... so, if Adams & Styles were later than Baker & Truly then Garner would not have seen Baker & Truly..........or ......... if Garner saw Baker & Truly then Adams & Styles would have bumped into Baker & Truly on the stairs.

So, that means that my very detailed analysis of movements is very correct .......  & Adams & Styles were not far behind Oswald going down the stairs ............... Adams & Styles had a very small window behind Oswald, not too close, not too far. As explained by myself a year or two ago. 

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[Gerry Down]

6 minutes ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

I think u are correct that Adams saw the man in a suite after she had rounded the building, not near the dock. Yes that makes more  sense.

She wouldn't even have to round the corner. The dpd officer and deputy sheriff could have been visible as soon as she exited the rear door.

[Gerry Down]

The fact Adams says she saw a policeman talking to a man in a suit when she came out the rear door is yet more proof she ran down the stairs much later than she thought. Barnett did not talk to anyone when he was at the rear of the tsbd. Therefore Adams is talking about a dpd officer and most likely a sheriff officer talking in the railroad yard at the rear of the tsbd, and it would have taken them around 4 to 5 minutes to get into a position for Adams to see them upon leaving the rear door of the tsbd.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

51 minutes ago, Gerry Down said:

The fact Adams says she saw a policeman talking to a man in a suit when she came out the rear door is yet more proof she ran down the stairs much later than she thought. Barnett did not talk to anyone when he was at the rear of the tsbd. Therefore Adams is talking about a dpd officer and most likely a sheriff officer talking in the railroad yard at the rear of the tsbd, and it would have taken them around 4 to 5 minutes to get into a position for Adams to see them upon leaving the rear door of the tsbd.

I was thinking that u meant that Adams saw the G-man in a suite etc nearer the grassy knoll carpark (west of the TSBD).

There was no G-man (nor Officer) north of the dock near the tracks (at least untill much later anyhow). That area was next to Rackley, who said he was standing near the tracks for say a total of 10 minutes.

Rackley tells us that some plain clothes G-men guarded the dock area many minutes after the shots. At which time (i think) Barnett left the dock area. But (i know that) Adams exited that dock & rounded the building (going anti-clockwise) at about the same time as Baker &  Truly entered the stairs.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Marjan Rynkiewicz

[David Von Pein]

3 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

Nope, read my earlier comment.

Oswald fires his shot-1 at pseudo Z105, the slug ricochets off a guy-rod of the overhead signal arm, the slug puts a hole in the floor of the limo, the fine lead splatter hits jfk on the back of his head, & jfk utters my god i have been hit.

Oswald fires his shot-2 at Z218, the magic bullet.

Oswald stands up & back from the window, he duznt fire his last bullet.

Oswald sees that Hickey accidentally fires an auto-burst of his AR15 at Z300 to Z312, hitting jfk in the head.

Oswald takes off.

Oswald gets to the 2nd floor after 48 sec.

Oswald just missed seeing Hines walking along the corridor near the lunch room & entering the office door from the corridor at about 46 seconds.

Oswald stops.  What to do next?

Should he continue down to the first floor?

Should he go to the first floor via the front stairs?

Should he lay low in the lunch room?

His jacket is in the Domino Room.

Uh Oh -- He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs in a real hurry on a mission.

Best to visit the coke machine & hope that whoever it is goes clean past.

They pass. He comes back out. What to do next?

He can't decide.  He will be less conspicuous if he takes the front stairs, but he would then have to walk back into & throo the storage area to get his jacket in the Domino Room.

He decides to continue down the back stairs.

He makes a start but then Truly hollers up the elevator shaft, so he goes back up.

Then he hears Baker & Truly galloping up the stairs, & he retreats to the coke machine a second time.

He walks slow & cool.

He would have been better off diving into the lunchroom in a hurry, & laying low, he knows there is no-one in there, but he knows that if seen rushing (by Truly & Co) it will be a sure sign that he is guilty of something.

He nearly makes it, another couple of slow steps & he will be out of sight.

But damn, Baker spots a bit of him throo the glass of the door & says to come back.

Truly says that Oswald works here, & Baker & Truly gallop off.

They get to the 5th floor & take the east elevator to the 7th floor.

Oswald gets a coke to look less guilty & more cool if confronted again.  And assassinations go better with coke.

The back stairs are now dangerous.  He heads for the front stairs, either forgetting about his jacket or deciding that his jacket is a dead duck.

But just in case more dumb cops are entering along the corridor he goes via the office.

Damn, he meets Jeraldean Reid as she returns to her desk.  Mrs Hine is also in the office but she doesn't notice Oswald, or forgets.

Reid in 3 re-enactments took exactly 120 sec to get to her desk, which is about right (ie to meet Oswald).

She says something as they pass & he mumbles something back.  Its not a good look.  He has no business in the office, unless wanting change for the coke machine. Its not even a short cut to the stairs. Damn.  Anyhow no big deal.

He goes down the front stairs & mixes with the growing throng in the lobby near the front door without raising any suspicion.

Someone asks him about a phone.

Ok, things aint so bad, praps he can take a chance & get his jacket from the Domino Room anyhow.

Hmmm – he can get his jacket by going out the front door & down the steps & around & entering via the Houston dock (like he does each morning), & walking 16 paces to the jacket.

Getting caught walking in shouldn’t result in getting bitten by a cop.

So, off he goes, but he gets a little ways up Houston & he sees Officer Barnett on sentry duty at the dock, & Barnett looks vicious.

So, a quick U-turn & back down Houston.  Buell Frazier sees him walking south along Houston.

No, the jacket is a dead duck.  He decides to get out of there asap, he crosses Houston & then crosses Elm.

Tippit is waiting.

Boy, Oswald was sure desperate to get that jacket, wasn't he?

But.....why?

 

[David Von Pein]

3 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

If Adams was on the stairs after all 3 men had already used the stairs then Garner would not have seen Baker & Truly on the 4th floor.

Why not? We know Baker & Truly DID briefly emerge on the 4th floor during their journey thru the building.

We merely need to accept these possible alternative scenarios:

1. Baker & Truly were both inside the lunchroom with Oswald on the 2nd floor at the precise moment when Adams & Styles were also on the 2nd floor making their mad dash toward the ground floor.....and, therefore, A&S didn't see B&T (or Oz).

or....

2. Dorothy Garner got the chronology mixed up SEVEN MONTHS LATER (on June 2, 1964) when she tried to reconstruct the timeline for Assistant United States Attorney Martha Joe Stroud.

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Joe Bauer]

Haven't listened to the full interview. Just had time to hear the first 1/4th.

Did Adams really state in the interview that she and Styles waited a full minute ( 60 seconds) after the shots to begin running out to the stairs?

That potentially does screw up her timeline protest to Belin who refused a stopwatch test with her re-enacting her first actions after the shots.

A full minute before she hit the stairs might have been enough time for a super fast walking Oswald to get down 4 flights to the lunch room.

I thought Adams and Styles started their stair run within just a few seconds after the shots.

Also, did she see the three colored fellows just one floor beneath the shooters perch actually descending the stairs themselves? I recall Junior Jarmon stating under oath in the "Trial Of Lee Harvey Oswald", that he and his two companions froze in their spot for quite awhile before deciding to go down the stairs. I sensed they didn't want to be considered suspects by a police department they knew were rough on colored folks.

Edited December 30, 2023 by Joe Bauer

[David Von Pein]

28 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Did Adams really state in the interview that she and Styles waited a full minute ( 60 seconds) after the shots to begin running out to the stairs?

I don't recall her saying any such thing in her 1966 interview. (But maybe she did and I just missed it.)

But here's what Adams told the WC:

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?

Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was, or do you think it took you to get from the window to the top of the fourth floor stairs?

Miss ADAMS - I don't think I can answer that question accurately, because the time approximation, without a stopwatch, would be difficult.

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it took you to get from the window to the bottom of the stairs on the first floor?

Miss ADAMS - I would say no longer than a minute at the most.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Joe Bauer]

5 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Mr. BELIN - How long do you think it was between the time the shots were fired and the time you left the window to start toward the stairway?

Miss ADAMS - Between 15 and 30 seconds, estimated, approximately.

Ah Ha!

So, she and Styles DID run off toward the stairs in just seconds.

Bolsters her story imo.

That would not have been enough time for Oswald to stand up, run to the far end of the 6th floor, stash his rifle...then start his run to and down the stairs and beat Adams and Styles to those stairs below them imo.

[David Von Pein]

25 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

So, she and Styles DID run off toward the stairs in just seconds. Bolsters her story imo. That would not have been enough time for Oswald to stand up, run to the far end of the 6th floor, stash his rifle...then start his run to and down the stairs and beat Adams and Styles to those stairs below them imo.

JEAN DAVISON SAID:

I have a question for anyone who accepts Vickie Adams' time line and believes that she came downstairs before Truly & Baker had reached the freight elevator on the 1st floor.

If she's right, how does her story prove that Oswald didn't come down those stairs?

In the WC version, Baker spotted Oswald just after each man had reached the second floor landing. That means that while Truly & Baker were rushing up from the 1st floor to the second, Oswald would've presumably been hurrying from about the 3rd floor to the 2nd. So where were Adams and Styles during that time, according to Adams? Already outside the building!

Can someone explain how her time line prevents Oswald from using those stairs?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

It doesn't prevent Oswald from using those same stairs. And that is something I have also pointed out in my posts in the past:

"I'll say this regarding Vickie Adams' timeline....The more I think about this subject, the more I realize that even if Adams DID descend those stairs as quickly as she said she did, that particular scenario really does no harm whatsoever to the "Oswald Did It" conclusion.  Why?  Because...then Adams and Styles very likely BEAT Lee Harvey Oswald to the stairs. Hence, it's likely that Adams & Styles were always AHEAD of Oswald on their descent down the stairs. And if Adams & Styles were really THAT fast at getting to the first floor, then they could have possibly beaten Baker & Truly too, with B&T only getting on the stairs after A&S had vacated the stairwell." -- DVP; February 17, 2011
 

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Andrej Stancak]

6 hours ago, Marjan Rynkiewicz said:

He hears Adams & Styles klomping down the stairs in a real hurry on a mission.

Marjan:

your timeline suggests that Adams' and Styles' descending followed Oswald's who already was on the second floor when Adams and Styles started their descend. But Adams and Styles left the 4th floor within about 10 seconds after the last shot and had a shorter path to the stairwell than Oswald who also needed to stash his rifle among the book boxes. Thus, Adams and Styles could only be ahead of Oswald. However, they would be able to hear Oswald if he followed him about three flights of stairs (one flight of stairs takes about 7 seconds to pass) as the stairs produced all kind of noises. 

Mrs. Garner moved to the vicinity of the stairwell right after Adams and Styles left and therefore, she was able to register Baker and Truly as they ascended the stairs; this is entirely all right. However, Garner did not hear or see anyone descending the stairs after Adams and Styles left and before Baker and Truly reached the fourth floor. 

The only solution to accommodate these circumstances is that nobody was descending through the stairwell after the shooting, neither Oswald nor anyone else. 

 

 

 

 

[David Von Pein]

Edited December 30, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Boy, Oswald was sure desperate to get that jacket, wasn't he?

But.....why?

 

Oswald was a penny pincher (like me). Isnt there a story involving someone pinching his rubbish bin, where Oswald went to a lot of trouble to recover his cheap bin. And in the end Oswald tried to save a few cents on his bus ticket while being hunted. Anyhow, it looks like Oswald planned to pick up his jacket on the way out after the shooting. But praps he did not plan even that.