The Anonymous Phone Call to the Tippits of Connecticut

[Matt Cloud]

3 hours ago, Geo Kozma said:

Thank you it was interesting to red about this hidden past of a family member...and also the weird dangers of this intel struggées...

but it is also interesting that even though Eisenhower is described as "very angry" (due to the misconstrrued title of the book on surrenders) he did allow Kecskeméti to stay away from the debate and even accepted his plea of "no mention by name". He was n o t humiliated and the value of his text  and its real rational intent was not put in question. 

"The Politics of Surrender" is a fundamentally important document for understanding Cold War strategy, notwithstanding Ike's alleged anger over it.  That response should be understood -- or at least considered -- as a feigned response.  A cover.  A deception.  

 

For the record, I am not criticizing in any way the strategy, as I indicated to you previously wherein I wrote "you [Geo} should not be ashamed of your Uncle's involvement."

 

Clear?

[Jim Hargrove]

25 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said:

If only I had known that what I received my LLM -- that's Master of Laws -- in copyright law.  Would love to see any of the "case law" you claim supports this otherwise irrelevant issue of yours.  The phonebooks are not copyright protected.  

The phonebooks themselves are not copyrighted, but we are not dealing only with them.  We are working with digitized, indexed, web-oriented repackagings that MAY have copyrightable elements. 

I’ve worked as an editor, publisher, and book author in the print and electronic publishing business for roughly 50 years,  and I know a thing or two about copyright laws also.  But let’s stop arguing about this and keep to the subject at hand.

[Matt Cloud]

Just now, Jim Hargrove said:

The phonebooks themselves are not copyrighted, but we are not dealing only with them.  We are working with digitized, indexed, web-oriented repackagings that MAY have copyrightable elements. 

I’ve worked as an editor, publisher, and book author in the print and electronic publishing business for roughly 50 years,  and I know a thing or two about copyright laws also.  But let’s stop arguing about this and keep to the subject at hand.

Fine.  If you indicate who it is your searching for I may be able to help point you in needed directions.  

 

I also happened to live at 81st between 1st and 2nd Avenues in NYC -- Yorkville, the home of much of the Brown Scare then the Red Scare, FWIW. 

[Matt Cloud]

10 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said:

Fine.  If you indicate who it is your searching for I may be able to help point you in needed directions.  

 

I also happened to live at 81st between 1st and 2nd Avenues in NYC -- Yorkville, the home of much of the Brown Scare then the Red Scare, FWIW. 

If you're looking, that is, for Elizabeth Bentley you're not going to find her.  She was under federal protection or more or less heightened degrees of security from 1948 on.  If you want her address in the early 1950s in Connecticut -- Milford I think it was, as a summer home -- just ask.

[Matt Cloud]

A further point: if you are trying to establish just how Bentley came to know of the Gardos family and associates there are at least two possibilities.

 

First, she knew of them during her time in the early 40s when she was courier for the Golos network.

 

Second, she learned of them as part of her consultancy with the FBI from 1945-1963.  That is, the FBI shared info on the Gardos with her and asked what she knew about them.  In that process, she would have been made privy to their intelligence.

Edited March 14 by Matt Cloud

[Jim Hargrove]

4 hours ago, Matt Cloud said:

Fine.  If you indicate who it is your searching for I may be able to help point you in needed directions.  

 

I also happened to live at 81st between 1st and 2nd Avenues in NYC -- Yorkville, the home of much of the Brown Scare then the Red Scare, FWIW. 

Awesome!  I spent the first 10 years of my life living at 440 Riverside Dr. in Manhattan (near Grant’s Tomb and Columbia University).

John K., Paul J. and I are mostly interested in the years 1945 -1949 and would like to know if any of these people had Manhattan addresses during those years:

Fred Blair (aka Carroll Blair?)
Louis Weinstock
Edwin Ekdahl, and
Emil & Grace Gardos (Grace Gardos was in the 1945 directory at 217 E 86th)

Any help would be appreciated.

[Matt Cloud]

4 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Awesome!  I spent the first 10 years of my life living at 440 Riverside Dr. in Manhattan (near Grant’s Tomb and Columbia University).

John K., Paul J. and I are mostly interested in the years 1945 -1949 and would like to know if any of these people had Manhattan addresses during those years:

Fred Blair (aka Carroll Blair?)
Louis Weinstock
Edwin Ekdahl, and
Emil & Grace Gardos (Grace Gardos was in the 1945 directory at 217 E 86th)

Any help would be appreciated.

Fred Blair is Wisconsin and U.P. MIchigan. 

Louis Weinstock is NYC.

Edwin Ekdahl is NY (Nyak), then TX, then MA.

Gardos are NY.  (217 E. 86th Street)

 

All of these have been identified.  Now what?

[John Kowalski]

20 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Was it normal back then to register for the draft when in your forties?

Maybe they wanted to know where all men were even though they may not ask them to serve.

[Matt Cloud]

And, to return to the phone call at issue, the reference by Bentley to 77th and 2nd ave, could be a reference to a specific address or it could just be a reference to the Yorkville section of the Upper East side, which begins about 77th street and continues up 2nd Avenue into the early 90s, which in the 1940s, and before as well as after, was home to large contingents of Hungarians and other related groups.

"Uncle" might be a literal reference; it might be a figurative reference, it might be correct geologically (or adoptively), it could be close to correct, it could be wrong.  It could be what she was told; it could be what she overheard; it could be what she inferred, etc.

Hinging further discussion and analysis to whether say Fred Blair walked on the sidewalk on 2nd Avenue in Yorkville at some point in 1948 or not is beside the point, and avoids discussing the full significance of the call.

 

[John Kowalski]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Any help would be appreciated.

Jim:

Checked Ancestry, they do not have the Manhattan 1947 or 1948 telephone directory.

Edited March 14 by John Kowalski

[John Kowalski]

5 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said:

Hinging further discussion and analysis to whether say Fred Blair walked on the sidewalk on 2nd Avenue in Yorkville at some point in 1948 or not is beside the point, and avoids discussing the full significance of the call.

What do you think is the significance of the call?

[Matt Cloud]

17 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

What do you think is the significance of the call?

I have explained that several times already on this thread and the other.  In short, if indeed E. Bentley made the call to the Tippits of CT sveral things unfold from that.  

1.  Obviously it indicates that the famous Red Spy Queen has knowledge of Oswald in the 40s in NYC.  Bad for the official story.

 

2.  It opens up investigation into the Tippits.  Tried that here before -- no one seems to want to go where that goes.  

 

3.  Was there foul play in her death related to the call?  That requires asking who knew of the call.

 

4.  The call also requires looking into the other persons referenced in the call.  We have FBI reports from 1959, at the same time Oswald is allegedly trying to defect, which state that Weinstock met the Gardos in Hungary and they are on their way -- with son? -- to Moscow on Nov 1, 1959.  We have Weinstock in 1960 just before the election going from NYC to DC with information on the Gary Powers U-2 shoot-down.   Was Oswald being set-up for taking the blame of the Powers shoot-down, to divert suspicion from the Mole that Popov had said had leaked the plane's details in 1958/59?  

 

5.  In addition, the call raises questions about the entire legitimacy of the Red Scare in the first place, and whether that was a cover for a larger operation with which to implement Troskyite policies here in the US over the next 70 years.  

 

How's that for starters?

 

Edited March 14 by Matt Cloud

[John Kowalski]

22 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

A search for "1946 Manhattan phone book" or something similar produced multiple working sources, including the NYC Public Library and several others.  Looking virtually inside the 1946 phone book worked beautifully on several sites, but when I tried for 1948, there was just a brick wall.  Lots of references, lots of libraries to visit in person, but no ability to look inside the 1948 book online.  My bet is it is either a copyright exclusion or a limit to how many people are willing scan and publish that many pages.  

Jim:

What we need is the NYC City Directory. This directory will provide the names of each person living at an address listed in the directory. NYPL has city directories online up to the year 1934. Contacted them today regarding obtaining copies of the directory for 77nd avenue and 2nd avenue for the years 1945-1949.

[John Kowalski]

10 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said:

I have explained that several times already on this thread and the other.  In short, if indeed E. Bentley made the call to the Tippits of CT sveral things unfold from that.  

1.  Obviously it indicates that the famous Red Spy Queen has knowledge of Oswald in the 40s in NYC.  Bad for the official story.

2.  It opens up investigation into the Tippits.  Tried that here before -- no one seems to want to go where that goes.  

You are obviously very interested in the Cold War but this thread is not about that. It is about John A's book Harvey and Lee in which he proves that a man took on Lee Harvey Oswald's identity and then defected to the Soviet Union. In this thread, the significance of the call to me is about what it can tell us about young Harvey, the boy Bentley told Tippit about. This is why Jim, Paul and I have been doing research on the Tippit family in Connecticut and the Gardos in NYC. 

 

[Matt Cloud]

7 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

You are obviously very interested in the Cold War but this thread is not about that. It is about John A's book Harvey and Lee in which he proves that a man took on Lee Harvey Oswald's identity and then defected to the Soviet Union. In this thread, the significance of the call to me is about what it can tell us about young Harvey, the boy Bentley told Tippit about. This is why Jim, Paul and I have been doing research on the Tippit family in Connecticut and the Gardos in NYC. 

 

Not sure how even to approach this.  You completely ignored all of the salient points in my response to your question, all of which tie directly to the persons identified in the call.  I'll just say if you want to solve the mystery of who Lee Harvey Oswald was, you need to understand the Cold War.  I mean really understand it.  You don't need to have a RAND-level think tank analysis here, but you're going to need to have some familiarity with the concepts.  More than has been on display.  The Kennedy assassination is not a murder; it's a political/intelligence operation operating on a 70+ year scale.  

 

 

Edited March 14 by Matt Cloud