The Anonymous Phone Call to the Tippits of Connecticut

[Matt Cloud]

1 hour ago, Matt Cloud said:

Not sure how even to approach this.  You completely ignored all of the salient points in my response to your question, all of which tie directly to the persons identified in the call.  I'll just say if you want to solve the mystery of who Lee Harvey Oswald was, you need to understand the Cold War.  I mean really understand it.  You don't need to have a RAND-level think tank analysis here, but you're going to need to have some familiarity with the concepts.  More than has been on display.  The Kennedy assassination is not a murder; it's a political/intelligence operation operating on a 70+ year scale.  

 

 

And to add, for now the third time, Armstrong himself (p. 63 I think) asks the question, given the leniency of the treatment Weinstock received over the years, was he an agent of the U.S. Government?  That's an important question, and ties right into to everything I wrote, all of it on point to this thread (notwithstanding your claim otherwise), above, in my response to your question about what I perceived as the significance of the Tippit call. 

 

The fact that you personally may not understand the implications is no cause whatever to deny others who do understand the implications from adding to them here.  If mods want to lock the thread, and keep it a fiefdom amongst you three, perhaps you ought to request that.

Edited March 15 by Matt Cloud

[Geo Kozma]

On 3/14/2024 at 3:25 PM, Matt Cloud said:

 

This  (Kecskemeti  reports in 46 and 50 on satellites)  is critically important to the topic here because the psychological effect of Sputnik, and the U-2, overhead reconnaissance, and missiles and missile defense, is central to the strategic balance of power over the course of the Cold War and again -- the leak of the U-2 technical plans -- is what sets the "mole hunt" in motion. 

As to Gardos being a Trotskyite, I think if you read through their papers and the history you will find that is their political viewpoint.  This is important because the strategy of the Trotskyite revolution -- those are the "neocons" here today -- is ferment social change through continual international revolution.  By having the Gardos family deported back into Hungary they could then become instrumental in leading the Hungarian uprising in 1956, which would be part of the break-down of Stalinist control over the satellites.

Hi Matt, these things I never knew...It is astonishing for me that a close family member (for me he ws just a grandfather figure ) has had some part  in such historic innovations.

The Boss of the Editions CORVINA where he did work in 63 was an ex-fighter in Spain (later  

Weinstock and Gary Powers telling the Soviets about Oswald...I must go bck to find this...it sounds logical. But I forgot it.

Edited March 20 by Geo Kozma
typos for clarity

[Geo Kozma]

15 hours ago, Matt Cloud said:

For the record, I am not criticizing in any way the strategy, as I indicated to you previously wherein I wrote "you [Geo} should not be ashamed of your Uncle's involvement."

 

Clear?

thanks..But it iss not clear how this debate was a cover...

[Geo Kozma]

15 hours ago, Matt Cloud said:

.  A cover.  A deception.  

 

For the record, I am not criticizing in any way the strategy, as I indicated to you previously wherein I wrote "you [Geo} should not be ashamed of your Uncle's involvement."

 

Clear?

Now i read it again and i see that th FEIGNED ANGER oF the President was a cover.

[Geo Kozma]

On 3/12/2024 at 10:06 PM, Matt Cloud said:

 

Whether Bentley's call was in furtherance of this -- Geo suggests it was a false flag -- is also open to discussion.  My hunch is that she was sincere, and by re-inserting herself back into the situation via the call, her presence risked un-earthing what I have just described above.

 

That's probably more than anyone wants to handle at this point, so let's just call that an intro. 

I meant "false flag" but not false info. ...So to make them publicly known may be dangerous in an era when atomic conflict was not debated nough to ee clearly its dangers.

Edited March 20 by Geo Kozma
clarity

[Geo Kozma]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:51 PM, Matt Cloud said:

And to add, for now the third time, Armstrong himself (p. 63 I think) asks the question, given the leniency of the treatment Weinstock received over the years, was he an agent of the U.S. Government?  

The fact that you personally may not understand the implications is no cause whatever to deny others who do understand the implications from adding to them here.  If mods want to lock the thread, and keep it a fiefdom amongst you three, perhaps you ought to request that.

I do not see who are meant  in "you three"...But I suppose it is some  bitter humour...

1 Anyway  here I  must mention that P. Kecskemeti, the RAND strategist  did not get a visa to Hungary from 40 till 80. 

So either Weinstock WAS a US govt agent  - but that did not help Kecskemeti - or he needed to have someone behind him, who was  in a trusted Russian "mole"-like role with influence on both sides because of being "untouchable" due to his meeting with Lenin..(Like Harriman etc). 

 

 

Edited March 20 by Geo Kozma
new info in bold

[Jim Hargrove]

13 hours ago, John Kowalski said:

Jim:

What we need is the NYC City Directory. This directory will provide the names of each person living at an address listed in the directory. NYPL has city directories online up to the year 1934. Contacted them today regarding obtaining copies of the directory for 77nd avenue and 2nd avenue for the years 1945-1949.

John,

When you refer to the NYC City Directory, is that different than the Manhattan telephone directory  (or phone books for the other boroughs)? Also, did the NYPL provide an answer about the years 1945-1949?  If memory serves, the 1945 directory I found Grace Gardos listed in was online from the NYPL.

[Jim Hargrove]

13 hours ago, John Kowalski said:

You are obviously very interested in the Cold War but this thread is not about that. It is about John A's book Harvey and Lee in which he proves that a man took on Lee Harvey Oswald's identity and then defected to the Soviet Union. In this thread, the significance of the call to me is about what it can tell us about young Harvey, the boy Bentley told Tippit about. This is why Jim, Paul and I have been doing research on the Tippit family in Connecticut and the Gardos in NYC. 

 

12 hours ago, Matt Cloud said:

Not sure how even to approach this.  You completely ignored all of the salient points in my response to your question, all of which tie directly to the persons identified in the call.  I'll just say if you want to solve the mystery of who Lee Harvey Oswald was, you need to understand the Cold War.  I mean really understand it.  You don't need to have a RAND-level think tank analysis here, but you're going to need to have some familiarity with the concepts.  More than has been on display.  The Kennedy assassination is not a murder; it's a political/intelligence operation operating on a 70+ year scale.  

All of us surely agree that “The Kennedy assassination is not [just] a murder; it's a political/intelligence operation operating on a 70+ year scale,” but, again, this thread simply is trying to ascertain if the “Lee Harvey Oswald” named by the anonymous caller was actually the Russian-speaking youth who was given the identity of the American-born Lee Harvey Oswald. Toward that end, all I am trying to do right now is find out if the following people were listed in the Manhattan phone book for the years 1945-1949:

• Fred Blair (aka Carroll Blair?)
• Louis Weinstock
• Edwin Ekdahl, and
• Emil and/or Grace Gardos (Grace Gardos was in the 1945 directory at 217 E 86th)

Simple.

[Sandy Larsen]

13 hours ago, Matt Cloud said:

Was Oswald being set-up for taking the blame of the Powers shoot-down, to divert suspicion from the Mole that Popov had said had leaked the plane's details in 1958/59?

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer that the mole theory be  studied in its own thread.

 

[Matt Cloud]

7 hours ago, Geo Kozma said:

Hi Matt, these things I never knew...It is astonishing for me that a close family member (for me he ws just a grandfather figure ) has had some part  in such historic innovations. BUT IF YOU LOOK INTO the UNEXPECTED REVOLUTION , a detailed Kecskemeti report on the 56 evnts - there is no mention of any Trotskyst faction (although for a few weeks each Party has been formed) and th whol thing was just a blip, not a real break down of Stalinist control - BTW with Stalin's death and then with the anti-Stalinist trend (freeing of innocent Gulag prisoners etc) this control was broken already in some field of life. The GARDOSh family had a diplomatic mission from the new re-stalinizing faction that . with Moscow's power  restarted -  has ruled in the next cca 30 years (till Gorbachev came), i do not doubt that you may have found some Trotskyist texts in Gardosh's  past ...i have only read his Hungarian article on the US Com-Party history (with  bro-in-law  Weinstock as a central heroe.)  In the History of Communism Journal of the central Committee of the ruling  - mostly pro-Stalin -  Party. here the later "neocons" were mostly formed from ex-Social Democrats  but in hidden ways in economic ministry  reearch departments. The Boss of the Editions CORVINA where he did work in 63 was an ex-fighter in Spain (later sponsor from kGB mony to Castro) - his survival shows that he was among the Stalinists who were busy killing thousands of Trotskysts in Barcelona in that 1936 civil war (against Franco) . Of ourse the secret Trotskyists probably did exist - so maybe Gardosh was a clever spy  who did have secet Liberal views while representing as a diplomat the new neo-stalin regime and went to work in their Foreign  affairs section, CORVINA.  

Weinstock and Gary Powers telling the Soviets about Oswald...I must go bck to find this...it sounds logical. But I forgot it.

Interesting.  I think you're spot on here: "Of ourse the secret Trotskyists probably did exist - so maybe Gardosh was a clever spy  who did have secet Liberal views while representing as a diplomat the new neo-stalin regime and went to work in their Foreign  affairs section, CORVINA.  "

[Matt Cloud]

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I don't know about the rest of you, but I prefer that the mole theory be  studied in its own thread.

 

So you have indicated.  I am not suggesting that the full contours of the mole theory and its implications be discussed and analyzed here; merely that it be kept in the backs of minds in analyzing the "Harvey project."  Doing so, experience has shown, helps understand the purpose and the events surrounding the creation of the Oswald legend.

Edited March 15 by Matt Cloud

[Matt Cloud]

21 minutes ago, Matt Cloud said:

Interesting.  I think you're spot on here: "Of ourse the secret Trotskyists probably did exist - so maybe Gardosh was a clever spy  who did have secet Liberal views while representing as a diplomat the new neo-stalin regime and went to work in their Foreign  affairs section, CORVINA.  "

And remember, even if no one else here will, Weinstock and Oswald -- the Texas Oswald we are to believe -- write each other in '62/'63?  Weinstock's affidavit about Oswald offering photo enlargement services to Weinstock and The Worker is published in the Warren Commission.

 

If Weinstock is an agent of the U.S. government, as Armstrong speculates in Harvey and Lee, well, that's bad.

Edited March 15 by Matt Cloud

[Matt Cloud]

7 hours ago, Geo Kozma said:

1 Anyway  here I  must mention that P. Kecskemeti, the RAND strategist  did not get a visa to Hungary from 40 till 80. (In 79 the US gave back the Kingly Crown of Hungary taken in the war in 45...by a delegation led by  State Sec Cyrus VAnce, who was one of the Harvard M.I.T participants of the Endicott psychodaramas lef by Kecskemeti in 50-59) 

So either Weinstock WAS a US govt agent  - but that did not help Kecskemeti - or he needed to have someone behind him, who was  in a trusted Russian "mole"-like role with influence on both sides because of being "untouchable" due to his meeting with Lenin..(Like Harriman). 

 

This is important.

[Matt Cloud]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

 

All of us surely agree that “The Kennedy assassination is not [just] a murder; it's a political/intelligence operation operating on a 70+ year scale,” but, again, this thread simply is trying to ascertain if the “Lee Harvey Oswald” named by the anonymous caller was actually the Russian-speaking youth who was given the identity of the American-born Lee Harvey Oswald. Toward that end, all I am trying to do right now is find out if the following people were listed in the Manhattan phone book for the years 1945-1949:

• Fred Blair (aka Carroll Blair?)
• Louis Weinstock
• Edwin Ekdahl, and
• Emil and/or Grace Gardos (Grace Gardos was in the 1945 directory at 217 E 86th)

Simple.

I see no conflict between micro-level work such as your phone-book analysis -- that's important -- with more macro-level work -- big picture implications -- on this thread.  Both can "peacefully co-exist," to use a Cold War phrase, here.

[John Kowalski]

Deleted by author.

Edited March 15 by John Kowalski