Robert Reeves Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Something I've wondered about the morgue photo --- JFK's eyes are wide open. Apologies if discussed before. I couldn't find it. But the priest said JFK's eyes were closed. From a letter Father Oscar L. Huber sent to a young lad about the president dying. He says JFK's eyes were closed. "My dear Friend: In the inclosed [sic] documents you can read just what I saw and did when I gave the last Rites [sic] to the President, John F. Kennedy. He certainly was apparently dead—I saw no sign of life in him. His forehead was covered with blood—his eyes were closed as if he were asleep. When I returned from the hospital to the Rectory, I heard that three shots were fired from a window, an upper window, in the Book Depository building. Later, three empty shells were found at this window and a gun bearing Oswald's fingerprints. It was some time after the assassination before I heard that shots from other directions were supposed to have been fired. This will have to be proven to me beyond doubt before I will accept it. My dear young man, I hope I haven't offended you by writing as I did, but I wrote just what I think happened." from https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/jfk-last-rites-priest/ I am sure this has been answered before: but why would both JFK's eyes be wide open, or is this done during autopsy? Any morticians onboard Surely both wouldn't be uniformly wide opened - if happened naturally due to deathly bodily changes? ----------------------------- Apologies if this has been discussed before. I guess these are attempts to pin the scalp in place? I noticed these uniformed 5 light dots across the fringe area and 2 down the right hand side of the presidents head. The ear also looks to have been pinned to the side of the head. There's two lighter skin shades, top of the ear, and at the earlobe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Mellor Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 12 hours ago, Robert Reeves said: Something I've wondered about the morgue photo --- JFK's eyes are wide open. Apologies if discussed before. I couldn't find it. Robert, check out the thread 'Death Stare photo cannot be in Bethesda Morgue' on page two of the Forum lists, particularly the piece written by Allan Eaglesham. It's not just the open eyes that's odd. I believe the entire Bethesda shell game was totally fraudulent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Robert, I've never seen anything about the pins part but I have posted about the eyes wide open part in at least a couple of threads over the last 4-5 years. I also quoted Father Huber about JFK's eyes being shut at Parkland. I had looked up and pointed out that rigor mortis normally starts within 2-4 hours after death, I. E. that if his eyes were closed at Parkland they would have been fixed in that position by the time of the autopsy at Bethesda. Someone else argued that it is not uncommon for the eyes to open back up and they are often, like the lips, sewn shut with very fine thread/fishing line. Someone else posited that the pressure from the bullet(s) exploding (in) his head created pressure on the eyes pushing them forward causing the eyelids to pop open. Seems like there was more, I can't remember at the moment. I'll look a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 On 6/2/2023 at 3:16 AM, Pete Mellor said: Bingo Pete. This has all been discussed here before, with no firm conclusion though I have kind of reached one myself. Anyone truly interested should read these two old threads. Kudos to Myra Bronstein for raising the question originally. Dr. Crenshaw said he closed the eyes at Parkland. I've read somewhere, can't find It, that Father Huber who gave the last rights said the eyes were closed when he moved the sheet over JfK's face to administer oil to the forehead as part of that process. Rigor Mortis sets in between 1-7 hours after death, depending on circumstances. On the borderline for the start of the autopsy. Autopsy Dr's can't remember if they were open, while they were examining his head. One assistant remembers the right eye failing to close completely. Humes noting fracturing of the bone around it looking from the rear. Father Huber noting a wound above it. The eye being sewed shut to fully close it in the preparation for burial process after the autopsy. It all makes the official (non) stories questionable. Imo, staged for effect, 1" to 4" sliced entry wound as well, or part of digging for a bullet. Edited just now by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 5 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: On 6/2/2023 at 3:16 AM, Pete Mellor said: Bingo Pete. This has all been discussed here before, with no firm conclusion though I have kind of reached one myself. Anyone truly interested should read these two old threads. Kudos to Myra Bronstein for raising the question originally. Dr. Crenshaw said he closed the eyes at Parkland. I've read somewhere, can't find It, that Father Huber who gave the last rights said the eyes were closed when he moved the sheet over JfK's face to administer oil to the forehead as part of that process. Rigor Mortis sets in between 1-7 hours after death, depending on circumstances. On the borderline for the start of the autopsy. Autopsy Dr's can't remember if they were open, while they were examining his head. One assistant remembers the right eye failing to close completely. Humes noting fracturing of the bone around it looking from the rear. Father Huber noting a wound above it. The eye being sewed shut to fully close it in the preparation for burial process after the autopsy. It all makes the official (non) stories questionable. Imo, staged for effect, 1" to 4" sliced entry wound as well, or part of digging for a bullet. Edited just now by Ron Bulman Well fooey. That didn't copy exactly like I intended. It's from page 3 of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 This is alluded to in the thread mentioned above but may be the best read on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Reeves Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 (edited) It looks like the flash of the camera or lighting used highlights the objects I think might have been placed into the scalp to keep it in place. Some type of pin? I'm guessing. They seem evenly sized objects. To the left of the dot closest to the top of the right ear you can just about make out whatever JFK's head was resting on. A light L shape. But the dots are very exact in size. There are different flesh tones to the ear area. Looks like it was stuck to the side of the head. In the Gifs above you can see the same two areas are uneven. But whose handywork? It looks like they sanitized the photograph @Ron Bulman @Pete Mellor The eyes opened is weird. It's not like one is opened more than the other. They are equally gaped right open. There's something not right about his. TY for the links Ron Edited March 30 by Robert Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Reeves Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 Not dots/shiny objects in same area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 I find this post by Ed LeDoux particularly relevant. Posted February 12, 2007 · IP (edited) Hi Myra, Here are a few bits on the subject of his eyes, Dennis David:....the right eye seemed to be a little more prominent than it is here in this picture. (photo 1= stare of death) William Law: More prominent as to what? David: Protruded. Law: So it was popped. David: You could say that. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul O'Connor: His right eye, as I remember, was poked completely out of the orbit, the eye casing. I remember that Dr. Boswell and I looked into the back of the cranium, looking towards the front, and the orbit-the boney casing around where the eye sits was completely fractured. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ James Jenkins: ....And the only thing is that when they were preparing the body for burial, they had to put a suture in the right eyelid in order to keep it closed because apparently there may have been some bone fracture in that area, but there was no externally visible wound or fracturing there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Harold Rydberg: I don't think I see in the autopsy pictures--Dr. Humes told me, "make sure that right eye is blackened" because that orbital socket was fractured, and that right eye was blackened. Now even in lividity, where the blood settles to the bottom, the bruises will still show. And there is no bruise on that right eye. On that face [in the autopsy photographs]. Law: You're talking about whenyou had to do the drawings, correct? Rydberg: Yes. That was one request: "Make sure that right eye is blackened. Bruised. Like you've got a black eye." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerrol Custer: The eye was more protruded at the time, but there's nothing to say that the eye wasn't pushed back in. Because at that time also there was a mortician ther doing his work, his job was fixing, making the body more presentable. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All above quotes are from William Matson Law's "IN THE EYE OF HISTORY", how apropos!! Great "eye" for detail Myra. I wondered why the priest did not close the eyes for the last rites, or were they already closed by the nurses or Crenshaw. MORE QUOTES: CE 387 Pathological Examination Report ...the eyes are blue, the right pupil measuring 8 mm.in diameter, the left 4 mm. There is edema and aechymosis of the inner canthus region of the left eyelid measuring approximately 1.5 ma. in greatest diameter. There is edema and ecchymosis diffusely over the right supra-orbital ridge with abnormal mobility of the underlying bone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MR. GUNN: I notice that this photo is different from the first view that we took a look at. The eye, at least on the right side, appears to be open. Actually, both eyes appear to be open. Do you recall whether the eyes were open during the course of the autopsy? DR. J THORNTON BOSWELL: I don't recall that that was a point of interest. I think we just moved back and let the photographer take the picture, and I think maybe positioning the body may have had something to do with stretching the eyelids. But I don't think we made any attempt to take the pictures with the eyes open or closed. MR. GUNN: So the difference on whether the eyes were open or closed would not be of any material significance in terms of the timing of the photographs? DR. J THORNTON BOSWELL: No. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MR. GUNN: Do you have any recollection as to whether the eyes of President Kennedy were open at any point during the autopsy? JOHN T. STRINGER: Yes. MR. GUNN: Were they open at all points during the autopsy? JOHN T. STRINGER: Well, they kept trying to close them, and they'd open again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MR. GUNN: Do the eyes of President Kennedy appear to be open in these photographs? Dr. Humes: Yes. MR. GUNN: Were the eyes, in fact, open during the autopsy, do you recall? Dr. Humes: The picture shows me that they were. MR. GUNN: If other photographs did not have the eyes open, would you be able to explain the difference in that appearance? Dr. Humes: I don't know. I might, I guess. I don't know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arlen Specter: Upon your arrival in the room, where President Kennedy was situated, what did you observe as to his condition? Malcolm Perry: At the time I entered the door, Dr. Carrico was attending him. He was attaching the Bennett apparatus to an endotracheal tube in place to assist his respiration. The President was lying supine on the carriage, underneath the overhead lamp. His shirt, coat, had been removed. There was a sheet over his lower extremities and the lower portion of his trunk. He was unresponsive. There was no evidence of voluntary motion. His eyes were open, deviated up and outward, and the pupils were dilated and fixed. Edited February 12, 2007 by Ed LeDoux Quote Posted February 12, 2007 · IP (edited) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted February 12, 2007 · IP (edited) Hi Myra, Here are a few bits on the subject of his eyes, Dennis David:....the right eye seemed to be a little more prominent than it is here in this picture. (photo 1= stare of death) William Law: More prominent as to what? David: Protruded. Law: So it was popped. David: You could say that. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul O'Connor: His right eye, as I remember, was poked completely out of the orbit, the eye casing. I remember that Dr. Boswell and I looked into the back of the cranium, looking towards the front, and the orbit-the boney casing around where the eye sits was completely fractured. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ James Jenkins: ....And the only thing is that when they were preparing the body for burial, they had to put a suture in the right eyelid in order to keep it closed because apparently there may have been some bone fracture in that area, but there was no externally visible wound or fracturing there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Harold Rydberg: I don't think I see in the autopsy pictures--Dr. Humes told me, "make sure that right eye is blackened" because that orbital socket was fractured, and that right eye was blackened. Now even in lividity, where the blood settles to the bottom, the bruises will still show. And there is no bruise on that right eye. On that face [in the autopsy photographs]. Law: You're talking about whenyou had to do the drawings, correct? Rydberg: Yes. That was one request: "Make sure that right eye is blackened. Bruised. Like you've got a black eye." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jerrol Custer: The eye was more protruded at the time, but there's nothing to say that the eye wasn't pushed back in. Because at that time also there was a mortician ther doing his work, his job was fixing, making the body more presentable. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All above quotes are from William Matson Law's "IN THE EYE OF HISTORY", how apropos!! Great "eye" for detail Myra. I wondered why the priest did not close the eyes for the last rites, or were they already closed by the nurses or Crenshaw. MORE QUOTES: CE 387 Pathological Examination Report ...the eyes are blue, the right pupil measuring 8 mm.in diameter, the left 4 mm. There is edema and aechymosis of the inner canthus region of the left eyelid measuring approximately 1.5 ma. in greatest diameter. There is edema and ecchymosis diffusely over the right supra-orbital ridge with abnormal mobility of the underlying bone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MR. GUNN: I notice that this photo is different from the first view that we took a look at. The eye, at least on the right side, appears to be open. Actually, both eyes appear to be open. Do you recall whether the eyes were open during the course of the autopsy? DR. J THORNTON BOSWELL: I don't recall that that was a point of interest. I think we just moved back and let the photographer take the picture, and I think maybe positioning the body may have had something to do with stretching the eyelids. But I don't think we made any attempt to take the pictures with the eyes open or closed. MR. GUNN: So the difference on whether the eyes were open or closed would not be of any material significance in terms of the timing of the photographs? DR. J THORNTON BOSWELL: No. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MR. GUNN: Do you have any recollection as to whether the eyes of President Kennedy were open at any point during the autopsy? JOHN T. STRINGER: Yes. MR. GUNN: Were they open at all points during the autopsy? JOHN T. STRINGER: Well, they kept trying to close them, and they'd open again. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MR. GUNN: Do the eyes of President Kennedy appear to be open in these photographs? Dr. Humes: Yes. MR. GUNN: Were the eyes, in fact, open during the autopsy, do you recall? Dr. Humes: The picture shows me that they were. MR. GUNN: If other photographs did not have the eyes open, would you be able to explain the difference in that appearance? Dr. Humes: I don't know. I might, I guess. I don't know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arlen Specter: Upon your arrival in the room, where President Kennedy was situated, what did you observe as to his condition? Malcolm Perry: At the time I entered the door, Dr. Carrico was attending him. He was attaching the Bennett apparatus to an endotracheal tube in place to assist his respiration. The President was lying supine on the carriage, underneath the overhead lamp. His shirt, coat, had been removed. There was a sheet over his lower extremities and the lower portion of his trunk. He was unresponsive. There was no evidence of voluntary motion. His eyes were open, deviated up and outward, and the pupils were dilated and fixed. Edited February 12, 2007 by Ed LeDoux Quote
Robert Reeves Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 First generation JFK researcher Shirley Martin claimed Father Oscar Huber told her JFK had a bullet wound over his left eye. He later denied saying this. Copy and paste of Shirley Martin's letter to Father Huber below. "An Open Letter to Father Oscar Huber (Who administered the last rites to President John F. Kennedy) Oh, Father, I am so sorry you don't remember my children and me. Richard Warren Lewis, author of "The Scavengers" (New York World Journal Tribune, 1/22/67) writes: "The priest (the Very Rev. Oscar Huber, pastor of the Holy Trinity Church in Dallas) denies ever meeting Mrs. Martin or having any knowledge of such a wound (over President Kennedy's left eye). " Yet, I and my children (Victoria 21, Teresa 15, Steven 12, Mike 11) interviewed you on November 22, 1964, at which meeting you detailed for us what you thought to have been a bullet hole over President Kennedy's left eye on November 22, 1963. (A story quoting you in this regard appeared in the 11/24/63 Philadelphia Sunday Bulletin.) The children and I had gone to Dallas for the purpose of honoring President Kennedy at Dealey Plaza on the first anniversary of his death. We attended mass that day (a Sunday) at your church; I introduced myself to you as Mr s. Mark Martin from the parish of Father John Ceffi, Hominy, Oklahoma. You led us into a study which was to the left of a fairly long hall where we sat and talked for at least twenty minutes. On a desk you had a number of copies of an article you had written called "President Kennedy's Final Hours, November 22, 1963," and you told us you wanted very much to send a copy to Mrs. Kennedy, but that you were hesitant about approaching her. "Do you think it would be a good idea?" you asked. You were concerned about mailing to her in time to have the anniversary postmark on the envelope. We assured you that with Mrs. Kennedy's sense of history, your thoughtfulness would be appreciated. (You then gave us a copy of your article which we still have.) At this point you described for us what you thought to have been a bullet wound over President Kennedy's left eye. * "I took the sheet down to his nose," you said, "and I saw what I immediately thought to be a bullet hole on his forehead, above his left eye. I told a number of people when I got back that this must have killed him, but that night 1 heard that the man was behind him in the building, so I knew what I had seen was a blood-clot." "No; no one has come to see me about it. No one." We also talked at length about your boyhood. You told us the sight of the President's blood had not bothered you because as a young man you had participated in the slaughter of pigs and were accustomed to seeing blood "all over the place." You then described an accident you had once attended, concluding: "No, no. The sight of blood never bothers me at ail." How can you deny, Father, that you met us or that you described for us what you thought was a bullet wound over President Kennedy's left eye? Richard Lewis (a sophisticate with a blind faith in the priesthood?) has used your denial of us to slander all my efforts on the Oswald case. He writes: "The graying Agatha Christie fan (has) conveyed her frequently misleading reports to fellow investigator s..."; and am told that Mr. Lewis plans a book (Dell, 300,000 copies) in which he will persist in his libel against the investigators. Consequently, Father, your denial of the children and me may lead to trouble yet. We are not accustomed to being called liars, either by a priest or a Hollywood "journalist.", (Mr s. ) Shirley Martin, Owasso, Oklahoma From http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/H Disk/Huber Oscar L Reverend/Item 02.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 4 hours ago, Robert Reeves said: We are not accustomed to being called liars, either by a priest or a Hollywood "journalist.", That letter is very interesting. I think I read something once about Father Huber mentioning a bullet hole over the left eye. Then nothing more about it. The detail gives the letter authenticity, I think. I think there were a couple of other reports of this. About it being in the edge of the hairline over the left eye. If I remember right this fits with Dr's. Mantick and Chesser's analysis of the x-rays in the National Archives. A frontal shot over the left eye, and another in the hairline in the right temple, slightly above the top of the right ear and slightly in front of it. This part to me is really interesting. At this point you described for us what you thought to have been a bullet wound over President Kennedy's left eye. * "I took the sheet down to his nose," you said, "and I saw what I immediately thought to be a bullet hole on his forehead, above his left eye. I told a number of people when I got back that this must have killed him, but that night 1 heard that the man was behind him in the building, so I knew what I had seen was a blood-clot." "No; no one has come to see me about it. No one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Is it possible Huber saw the right hairline wound, which would have been on Huber's left hand, and transposed the perspective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Reeves Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 (edited) 38 minutes ago, David Andrews said: Is it possible Huber saw the right hairline wound, which would have been on Huber's left hand, and transposed the perspective? From what I can make out, Father Huber gave the quote to a journalist, which appeared in the 11/24/63 Philadelphia Sunday Bulletin. He'd have made the sign of the cross on JFK's forehead, so I would figure he had a fairly good idea of where exactly he saw a bullet wound on JFK's forehead. Although it would be a very fresh memory, maybe the stress and drama of the day might have clouded his recollections. I tried looking around on google for other details. Vince Palamara's JFK: From Parkland to Bethesda: The Ultimate Kennedy Assassination Compendium mentions the quote. Also David Lifton's Best Evidence p46, plus several other books. below There's no terrible wound on the forehead over the left eye to be seen in the autopsy photographs. Morticians are quite handy at altering/beautifying corpses. Wonder if anyone on this forum has a copy of the 11/24/63 Philadelphia Sunday Bulletin article quoting Father Huber !?!?! Edited April 2 by Robert Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Reeves Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ron Bulman said: That letter is very interesting. I think I read something once about Father Huber mentioning a bullet hole over the left eye. Then nothing more about it. The detail gives the letter authenticity, I think. I think there were a couple of other reports of this. About it being in the edge of the hairline over the left eye. If I remember right this fits with Dr's. Mantick and Chesser's analysis of the x-rays in the National Archives. A frontal shot over the left eye, and another in the hairline in the right temple, slightly above the top of the right ear and slightly in front of it. This part to me is really interesting. At this point you described for us what you thought to have been a bullet wound over President Kennedy's left eye. * "I took the sheet down to his nose," you said, "and I saw what I immediately thought to be a bullet hole on his forehead, above his left eye. I told a number of people when I got back that this must have killed him, but that night 1 heard that the man was behind him in the building, so I knew what I had seen was a blood-clot." "No; no one has come to see me about it. No one." I think about Kellerman's quote of a ''flurry of shots'' coming into the limo. And Kellerman from the time the shooting began is just staring into his side mirror at JFK as he's being shot at. He does nothing when JFK is struggling to breathe from the throat shot, right up until the fatal head shot. Kellerman was transfixed staring into the side mirror. Like a spotter. Looking for the bullet strikes. "Prior to the beginning of the autopsy Kellerman . recalls that Admiral Burkley or one of the autopsy doctors told him that pictures and X-rays would be taken at the autopsy. Kellerman immediately responded "...I want them all." from https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/pdf/md56.pdf "Kellerman recalls that at least one x-ray negative was displayed in the autopsy room, as the doctors were trying to determine if they could find any bullet fragments. Kellerman said that the X-ray was of the head and showed a "...whole mass of stars, the only large piece being behind the eye which was given to the FBI agents when it was removed.." "The only large piece being behind the eye'' "Kellerman said he took the cardboard box with the films and the X-rays from the hospital and went to the White House by ambulance, after the casket had been taken in. Kellerman said he was ".-about to forget them when someone said 'here's all your film.' 11 Kellerman said he believed he had copies of the receipts he handled that night." from https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/pdf/md56.pdf "Kellerman said he had ...no reason not to think he had everything..." when he took the cardboard box with the films and S-rays. When asked why the Secret Service wanted this material he said "...the point is, he was our man, everything belonged in the White House." from https://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/pdf/md56.pdf It's interesting how Kellerman is often portrayed as the lumbering idiot SS guy. But he seems to have been very much in control during the cover up at the autopsy. Edited April 2 by Robert Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 15 hours ago, Robert Reeves said: First generation JFK researcher Shirley Martin claimed Father Oscar Huber told her JFK had a bullet wound over his left eye. He later denied saying this. Copy and paste of Shirley Martin's letter to Father Huber below. "An Open Letter to Father Oscar Huber (Who administered the last rites to President John F. Kennedy) Oh, Father, I am so sorry you don't remember my children and me. Richard Warren Lewis, author of "The Scavengers" (New York World Journal Tribune, 1/22/67) writes: "The priest (the Very Rev. Oscar Huber, pastor of the Holy Trinity Church in Dallas) denies ever meeting Mrs. Martin or having any knowledge of such a wound (over President Kennedy's left eye). " Yet, I and my children (Victoria 21, Teresa 15, Steven 12, Mike 11) interviewed you on November 22, 1964, at which meeting you detailed for us what you thought to have been a bullet hole over President Kennedy's left eye on November 22, 1963. (A story quoting you in this regard appeared in the 11/24/63 Philadelphia Sunday Bulletin.) The children and I had gone to Dallas for the purpose of honoring President Kennedy at Dealey Plaza on the first anniversary of his death. We attended mass that day (a Sunday) at your church; I introduced myself to you as Mr s. Mark Martin from the parish of Father John Ceffi, Hominy, Oklahoma. You led us into a study which was to the left of a fairly long hall where we sat and talked for at least twenty minutes. On a desk you had a number of copies of an article you had written called "President Kennedy's Final Hours, November 22, 1963," and you told us you wanted very much to send a copy to Mrs. Kennedy, but that you were hesitant about approaching her. "Do you think it would be a good idea?" you asked. You were concerned about mailing to her in time to have the anniversary postmark on the envelope. We assured you that with Mrs. Kennedy's sense of history, your thoughtfulness would be appreciated. (You then gave us a copy of your article which we still have.) At this point you described for us what you thought to have been a bullet wound over President Kennedy's left eye. * "I took the sheet down to his nose," you said, "and I saw what I immediately thought to be a bullet hole on his forehead, above his left eye. I told a number of people when I got back that this must have killed him, but that night 1 heard that the man was behind him in the building, so I knew what I had seen was a blood-clot." "No; no one has come to see me about it. No one." We also talked at length about your boyhood. You told us the sight of the President's blood had not bothered you because as a young man you had participated in the slaughter of pigs and were accustomed to seeing blood "all over the place." You then described an accident you had once attended, concluding: "No, no. The sight of blood never bothers me at ail." How can you deny, Father, that you met us or that you described for us what you thought was a bullet wound over President Kennedy's left eye? Richard Lewis (a sophisticate with a blind faith in the priesthood?) has used your denial of us to slander all my efforts on the Oswald case. He writes: "The graying Agatha Christie fan (has) conveyed her frequently misleading reports to fellow investigator s..."; and am told that Mr. Lewis plans a book (Dell, 300,000 copies) in which he will persist in his libel against the investigators. Consequently, Father, your denial of the children and me may lead to trouble yet. We are not accustomed to being called liars, either by a priest or a Hollywood "journalist.", (Mr s. ) Shirley Martin, Owasso, Oklahoma From http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/H Disk/Huber Oscar L Reverend/Item 02.pdf From chapter 18d at patspeer.com: Let's start with Father Oscar Huber, the priest who gave Kennedy his last rites. The November 24th, 1963, Philadelphia Sunday Bulletin ran an article datelined Dallas, Nov. 23rd, 1963. Father Huber was interviewed for this article. It reported: “The President was lying on a rubber-tired table when I came in,” Father Huber said. He was standing at his head. Father Huber said the President was covered by a white sheet which hid his face, but not his feet. “His feet were bare,” said Father Huber... He said he wet his right thumb with holy oil and anointed a Cross over the President’s forehead, noticing as he did, a “terrible wound” over his left eye." A "terrible" wound over his left eye! No such wound was noticed by the Parkland doctors. It seems possible then that Father Huber had confused Kennedy's left for his right, and that Huber had in fact noticed the wound depicted in the autopsy photos while at Parkland. Or not. A year later, on November 22, 1964, researcher Shirley Martin spoke to Huber. She then reported on this discussion in an 11-24-64 letter written to fellow researcher Vincent Salandria. This letter was then quoted in Praise From a Future Generation, by John Kelin (2007). She wrote: "Saw Father Huber on Sunday...He says when he entered Emergency Room #1, he pulled the sheet just to the edge of the President's nose and then he saw what he assumed to be a bullet entry hole above the President's left eye...The next day, Father Huber says he learned that the assassin had stood behind the President, therefore negating the possibility that what he saw had been an entry bullet wound. At once, Father Huber realized that what he had seen was only a 'blood clot.'" A year and a half later, while interviewing Father Huber for his movie Rush to Judgment, Mark Lane followed up on Martin's questions, and received a similar response. (The transcript to this interview was made available by the Wisconsin Historical Society.) Huber told Lane "Well, his face was covered with blood and there was a blotch of blood on the left forehead, which I, at the time, thought possibly could be a bullet wound, but I learned later that it was not, that I was entirely mistaken, because he had been shot in the back of the head. I did not see really any wounds on him, because I only uncovered his face to the tip of his nose. I learned later that the bullet came out, perhaps at the jaw, I don't know." And that wasn't the last time Father Huber spoke on the matter. In late 1966, Lawrence Schiller followed up with many of those who'd been interviewed by Lane. In his book The Scavengers and Critics of the Warren Report, Schiller quoted Huber as follows: "I saw the President lying on an emergency room table...I noticed that his extremities were extremely white, and the thought came to me: 'There's no blood in this man...' I removed the sheet down to the tip of his nose and anointed him with holy oils...And [then I] put the sheet back over his face. I did not know where he had been shot, where the bullets had struck him and I had no thought of looking for anything like that. His face was covered in blood, but I saw no wounds." Huber was so worried about his actions being misrepresented, for that matter, that he wrote a response to William Manchester's 1967 book The Death of a President. This response insisted "I removed, to the tip of his nose, the sheet that covered the President's head and immediately began administering the last rites of Catholic Church..." When he sent this response to researcher Stephen Davenport on 8-18-70, moreover, he included a few more details, which Davenport subsequently shared with the HSCA. In this letter, Huber claimed that when he saw Kennedy: "I saw no sign of life in him. His forehead was covered with blood--his eyes were closed as if he were asleep--I did not see any bullet holes in his face or in his forehead--as far as I could see." So, okay, Father Huber was confusing and/or confused. But it's intriguing nonetheless that his statements, when taken as a whole, suggest there was lots of blood on Kennedy's face, but no missing bone, or readily identifiable bullet hole, on his face or forehead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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