Do photos show Felipe Vidal Santiago as the Dark-Complected Man? And Roy Hargraves as the Umbrella Man?

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Bill Simpich said:

Notice the high brow of the Umbrella Man, more similar to Roy Hargraves than Louis Witt.

Rosemary Willis corroborated Witt's account of his actions.

Both "in" on the plot?

[Paul Cummings]

I agree with the title of the thread. Felipe and Hargraves.

[Steve Thomas]

5 hours ago, Bill Simpich said:

 

Steve Thomas points out above that Felipe is 6 feet tall, slender build, and receding hair, similar to the DCM I believe. 

Ivan is described in the documents as a CIA agent spying on JURE/AMBANG during 1963.   Dallas is reported in 1963 as the headquarters of one of JURE's three major groups, and the biggest one in the continental US (the others were in San Juan, Puerto Rico and Caracas, Venezuela).

 

 Bill,

I am open to the idea that DCM could be Santiago. I do not know enough to definitively say he isn't. I'm just pointing out some "issues" I have.

Another one of the "issues" I have with the DCM is his socks. Somehow, those gleaming white, freshly washed atheletic socks, in my mind, to me, don't go with my picture of a jungle fighter or head of somebody's Maritime Police.

 

It's interesting. I clicked on the MFF site you relayed about Ivan. I was denied access. That's never happened to me before.

Steve Thomas

 

Edited June 7 by Steve Thomas

[Cliff Varnell]

1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:

I agree with the title of the thread. Felipe and Hargraves.

So Willis and Witt were involved in the plot!

Willis must have coordinated her HSCA testimony with Witt.

Maybe -- just maybe -- the 10 year old Rosemary was the mastermind of the entire ambush.  Explains why she was in the DP infield running alongside the limo -- she wanted to watch her handiwork close-up.

I mean, if we're gonna indulge implied witness bashing -- may as well go all the way, right?

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Cliff Varnell said:

So Willis and Witt were involved in the plot!

Willis must have coordinated her HSCA testimony with Witt.

Maybe -- just maybe -- the 10 year old Rosemary was the mastermind of the entire ambush.  Explains why she was in the DP infield running alongside the limo -- she wanted to watch her handiwork close-up.

I mean, if we're gonna indulge implied witness bashing -- may as well go all the way, right?

Sorry Cliff. You inadvertently stuck a song in my head.  Never saw the video before tonight.  It took me back to Junior High. Thought the forum might use a little levity at this time.  Now I gotta share it to get rid of it.

 

[Cliff Varnell]

Ron, I think it's a joke that the identity of Umbrella Man is still an issue.

Levity?  Oh no no no.  Certainly not!

What movie inspired Frank Sinatra to divorce Mia Farrow?

What movie was filmed at the same location as John Lennon's murder?

What movie was pedophile Roman Polanski's American debut?

 

 

[Mike Aitken]

Witt appeared before the HSCA in 1978 and passed away in 2014.  Did any researchers speak to him in the 36 years following the HSCA, or is his HSCA appearance the only time he spoke regarding the assassination?

[Paul Cummings]

8 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

So Willis and Witt were involved in the plot!

Willis must have coordinated her HSCA testimony with Witt.

Maybe -- just maybe -- the 10 year old Rosemary was the mastermind of the entire ambush.  Explains why she was in the DP infield running alongside the limo -- she wanted to watch her handiwork close-up.

I mean, if we're gonna indulge implied witness bashing -- may as well go all the way, right?

Witt had the same umbrella 15 years later?  Wasn't the one Witt used to demonstrate at the meetings didn't match the umbrella was used in DP? IMO Witt committed perjury and isn't the UM.

[Cliff Varnell]

19 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Witt had the same umbrella 15 years later? 

Good chance he lost track of the DP umbrella.

19 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

Wasn't the one Witt used to demonstrate at the meetings didn't match the umbrella was used in DP?

So what?

19 minutes ago, Paul Cummings said:

IMO Witt committed perjury and isn't the UM.

So he and Rosemary Willis were in on the plot. 

Penn Jones, too, since he was the one who tracked down the very shy Mr. Witt.

[Paul Cummings]

11 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

Good chance he lost track of the DP umbrella.

So what?

So he and Rosemary Willis were in on the plot. 

Penn Jones, too, since he was the one who tracked down the very shy Mr. Witt.

Why do you keep mentioning in on the plot? 

[Bill Simpich]

Cliff, no one is discussing Rosemary Willis in any context but yourself.

As politely as possible, could I ask you to start your own thread?  This may get derailed because you have your own agenda which may be quite right. 

I am trying to explore the Vidal/Hargraves possibility.  Thanks.

Bill

[Cliff Varnell]

54 minutes ago, Bill Simpich said:

Cliff, no one is discussing Rosemary Willis in any context but yourself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Willis the only witness to describe Umbrella Man's actions in any detail?

How is that not relevant to the speculation UM was Kill Team Member Roy Hargraves?

54 minutes ago, Bill Simpich said:

As politely as possible, could I ask you to start your own thread?  This may get derailed because you have your own agenda which may be quite right. 

I am trying to explore the Vidal/Hargraves possibility.  Thanks.

Bill

So what was Hargraves doing with that umbrella?  What function did he serve?

[Ron Bulman]

On 6/7/2024 at 2:54 PM, Cliff Varnell said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Willis the only witness to describe Umbrella Man's actions in any detail?

How is that not relevant to the speculation UM was Kill Team Member Roy Hargraves?

So what was Hargraves doing with that umbrella?  What function did he serve?

Bill, with all due respect.  I've considered Rosemary Willis an important witness for many years. Her 10 year old statements important.  I think Hargraves, or whoever pumping the umbrella was a signal for more shots, JFK wasn't dead yet.

[Nick Bartetzko]

I am undecided on umbrella man, but think it indeed might be Witt. Other than Rich DellaRosa, is there a witness of "the other film" who really describes the umbrella being pumped up and down? Beyond that, there is a fascinating photo that I believe was taken in 1964, that shows a group of Cubans? holding umbrellas. We can speculate that might tie into the umbrella man in Dealey Plaza. But if so, I would think it very unlikely they would be referring to Louis Witt holding it. 

[Ron Bulman]

28 minutes ago, Nick Bartetzko said:

I am undecided on umbrella man, but think it indeed might be Witt. Other than Rich DellaRosa, is there a witness of "the other film" who really describes the umbrella being pumped up and down? Beyond that, there is a fascinating photo that I believe was taken in 1964, that shows a group of Cubans? holding umbrellas. We can speculate that might tie into the umbrella man in Dealey Plaza. But if so, I would think it very unlikely they would be referring to Louis Witt holding it. 

That's the key, not Witt.