Is anyone aware of this book? I was not.

[Jamey Flanagan]

Thanks @Ron Bulman I was trying to remember a source for that but couldn't remember or find one when asked. 

I knew it was definitely a part of assassination lore and was thinking it was in multiple books. Was thinking along the lines of Crossfire or High Treason or stuff like that.

Thanks for explaining it a little a better than I could off the top of my head. I was thinking it had something to do with his internal bleeding but wasn't sure.

[Robert Morrow]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:13 PM, Steven Kossor said:

David Lifton's estate has just been settled.  I believe that his estate has been compiling his writing and other material to release it in the most complete format possible, including his work on Oswald's recruitment, training and manipulation for the role he would play in JFK's life that started many years before 1963. His ideas about "what was supposed to have happened in Dallas, but didn't" evolved over a long period of time. David shared his understanding of things relatively frequently and widely, but he was always sharing fragments of "a work in progress" rather than a finished product.  He had a lifelong history of "disguise and deception" activities and didn't trust anyone enough to talk in depth and detail about the JFKA, which led many people to malign him. I suggested to him that he had been operating "like a colloquium of one" since 1966 and that by not engaging in more open dialogue with other researchers, he was at-risk of succumbing to "confirmation bias." He recognized this and helped me fill in the gaps in my own understanding of Oswald's background the JFKA by suggesting a wide range of reading matter, and I believe he took me more into his confidence than he might have otherwise as a result, but he still kept his secrets. The estate has full access to the records we made of our conversations about the JFKA over 10 years. The discoveries David made in the WC records from 11/21/63 (and especially the events documented between 12:00 noon and 12:30 pm on 11/22/63) that appear to reveal plans (not just "precautions in case something bad happens") to provide ambulance transportation for JFK's body to Parkland hospital will make very interesting reading when his work is finally released. I won't comment further on David's work in deference to David's memory and his estate and look forward to reading Final Charade as much as anyone in the Forum.

Fantastic, thanks so much for the update. I especially want to read David Lifton's work on who Oswald really was. Lifton once told me that Oswald's favorite movie star was JOHN WAYNE and his favorite movie was THE SANDS OF IWO JIMA (some communist!).

Lee Harvey Oswald, like JFK, CIA director Allen Dulles and CIA George Herbert Walker Bush was a huge fan of the Ian Fleming books about James Bond, books that glorified western intelligence.

Lifton also told me he went to some university archives up north and watched as many episodes of "I Led Three Lives" which was Oswald's favorite TV (according to his brother Robert Oswald) and that show was based on the life of FBI informer Herbert Philbrick who "pretended to be a communist" and infiltrated communist rings for the FBI. Every episode of "I Led Three Lives" was about the Herbert Philbrick character breaking up a communist ring by infiltrating it.

Herbert Philbrick was who Oswald wanted to be. A "patriot" going under cover, having a fake public persona of being a "pro Castro Marxist" all the while working with elements like FBI Guy Banister and perhaps CIA David Atlee Phillips to undermine the pro Castro Fair Play for Cuba Committe.

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

If those YouTube videos are any indication, Lifton has gone positively off his rocker with claims even more preposterous than the ones previously outlined in Best Evidence.

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

If those YouTube videos are any indication, Lifton has gone positively off his rocker with claims even more preposterous than the ones previously outlined in Best Evidence.

Indeed. It's just one outrageous and ridiculous theory after another. It's really quite humorous to see.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist/David Lifton

 

[Steven Kossor]

I hope you guys receive more respectful treatment after you've passed on than you've been showing Mr. Lifton....

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Steven Kossor said:

I hope you guys receive more respectful treatment after you've passed on than you've been showing Mr. Lifton....

Yes.  His work was seminal.

[Jonathan Cohen]

5 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Yes.  His work was seminal.

That's hardly the word I'd use. Was he an excellent researcher? Yes. Does that mean his conclusions are valid? Absolutely not.

[Jonathan Cohen]

7 hours ago, Steven Kossor said:

I hope you guys receive more respectful treatment after you've passed on than you've been showing Mr. Lifton....

Steven, I knew David personally, and I often told him I thought his more fanciful theories were not supported by the evidence. I'm doing exactly the same thing now, regardless of whether he is alive or not.

[Steven Kossor]

Thanks for responding, Jonathan.  David spent his adult life connecting dots based on the evidence he discovered and was able to draw on a wider experience base than most people have in his analysis of things.  His work is justifiably credited as "seminal" and although some of his earlier conclusions drawn from his ever-expanding evidence collection were more improbable than his later conclusions, only once or twice did he seem to be "a closed book" when I spoke with him about the JFKA. He was generous insofar as he was able to be, and I learned a great deal in the time I spent exploring possibilities and probabilities with him.

[Jonathan Cohen]

56 minutes ago, Steven Kossor said:

He was generous insofar as he was able to be, and I learned a great deal in the time I spent exploring possibilities and probabilities with him.

I'm sure you did, and I applaud that collaborative spirit, which is often completely absent in JFK research at this late date. Personally however, I find Lifton's dot-connecting to have led to increasingly absurd scenarios involving Oswald as a government agent, putative body alteration on some secret upper floor of Parkland Hospital and impossibly convoluted conspiracies involving the eventual autopsy in Washington. Your mileage clearly varies.

[Steven Kossor]

The "JFKA research community" is one of the most fratricidal organizations imaginable.  Misunderstandings abound in a sea of singular voices all vying for attention and recognition, right?  In any case, at this point there are only probabilities to consider since the perpetrators concealed the facts so thoroughly over the years that, even when a glaring omission in their sanitizing efforts is discovered, it can be (and certainly is in the minds of most people) dismissed as an inexplicable "factoid" or some other gunk in the works that detracts from the beauty & symmetry of their preferred understanding.  Not sure what you meant by "your mileage clearly varies" but if it's a compliment, thanks.  If not, we'll see how it all turns out in 100 years, right?  A pioneer gets recognized eventually for his/her discovery of a new land, not for the failures of all kinds that may have occurred along the way, I think. Best wishes; the truth only "wills out" if we don't stop seeking after it (with inevitable wrong turns along the way, but with course corrections as they are discovered), right?  I found David Lifton to be willing and able to consider alternatives when they were proposed as questions or in the context of a conversation between knowledgeable parties interested in fuller understanding, rather than the puerile, selfish search for vindication that seems to be happening so often in the JFKA research community. The DPD audio recordings between 12:00 noon and 12:30 pm on 11/22/63 are a case in point; the audio is clear and time-stamped by the speaker, describing things that indicate advance planning for the need of a "transfer ambulance" parked at the Trade Mart (on the route between DP and Parkland hospital) in addition to the usual precautionary "regular" ambulance there "in case something bad were to happen."  I sent the audio to David Von Pein years ago, but ... his site still has lots of great material without it.

[Ron Ecker]

On Parkland doctors waiting to finish off JFK if necessary, whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath?

 

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

8 minutes ago, Steven Kossor said:

The "JFKA research community" is one of the most fratricidal organizations imaginable.  Misunderstandings abound in a sea of singular voices all vying for attention and recognition, right? 

Steven, I agree with you about this, and can't help remember being appalled to see Lifton and Harrison Livingstone nearly get into a fistfight at one of the ASK symposiums in Dallas in the mid-1990s. These men, who were at the time in their late 40s or early 50s, literally had to be separated from beating the crap out of each other outside a hotel ballroom.

11 minutes ago, Steven Kossor said:

The DPD audio recordings between 12:00 noon and 12:30 pm on 11/22/63 are a case in point; the audio is clear and time-stamped by the speaker, describing things that indicate advance planning for the need of a "transfer ambulance" parked at the Trade Mart (on the route between DP and Parkland hospital) in addition to the usual precautionary "regular" ambulance there "in case something bad were to happen."

Again, one man's treasure is another man's trash.. and I'm not sure how Lifton or anybody else could draw from this a conclusion that there were contingency plans to kill Kennedy somewhere "elsewhere" than Dealey Plaza.

[Steven Kossor]

Whether or not there were other sites for "the big event" besides Dallas, the plan in Dallas definitely involved the use of a "transfer ambulance" in addition to the usual precautionary ambulance; both were on-site at the Trade Mart (the transfer ambulance arrived around 10:00 am and the "regular" ambulance (601) arrived from Love Field about a half-hour before JFK arrived in DP).  The DPD radio transmissions confirm this to Chief Stevenson at 12:11 so it begs the question "Why would the need for a transfer ambulance be identified and requested specifically by the DPD the day before the big event (in addition to the "regular" ambulance) at the Trade Mart?  I'm confident that the answer to that question will be in Final Charade.  It looks like somebody at the DPD was planning to move an injured patient via the "transfer" ambulance at the Trade Mart, not just trying to be ready in case some unforeseen emergency were to happen (that's what 601 was for).