James DiEugenio Posted Tuesday at 06:20 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 06:20 PM The Secret Service chief resigned. IMO, the decades of examination on how JFK was killed had something to do with that. There were at least three shows on that subject in the lead up to her appearance by Vince, by me and by Lisa Pease. Rowley should have resigned and been investigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted Tuesday at 07:40 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:40 PM 1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said: The Secret Service chief resigned. IMO, the decades of examination on how JFK was killed had something to do with that. There were at least three shows on that subject in the lead up to her appearance by Vince, by me and by Lisa Pease. Rowley should have resigned and been investigated. I am hoping a thorough investigation will be performed. This will show, I suspect, that Trump was not in fact struck by an intact bullet, but by a fragment or piece of something struck by a bullet. Trump's doctor said no sutures were needed...IOW...that there was no hole or tear on the ear. That is not the wound one obtains from the impact of a high-velocity bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted Tuesday at 07:51 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 07:51 PM 9 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: I am hoping a thorough investigation will be performed. This will show, I suspect, that Trump was not in fact struck by an intact bullet, but by a fragment or piece of something struck by a bullet. Trump's doctor said no sutures were needed...IOW...that there was no hole or tear on the ear. That is not the wound one obtains from the impact of a high-velocity bullet. I think no sutures were needed because the wound was 2cm wide and the ear is cartilage. You can't suture a 2cm wide wound. Just best to leave it and put some gauze on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Niederhut Posted Tuesday at 08:16 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 08:16 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: The Secret Service chief resigned. IMO, the decades of examination on how JFK was killed had something to do with that. There were at least three shows on that subject in the lead up to her appearance by Vince, by me and by Lisa Pease. Rowley should have resigned and been investigated. Better late than never, Jim. Tony Ornato and his staff should have been fully investigated and prosecuted in court for their complicity in Trump's January 6th insurrection-- and their illegal erasure of their J6 Secret Service texts and Emails, after they were instructed by Congress to preserve all records. If I recall correctly, Ornato and his Secret Service associates dodged any honest testimony about their J6 actions during the Congressional J6 investigation. Most of what we know about their serious dereliction of duty came from the Congressional testimony of Cassidy Hutchinson. As examples, Ornato and the Secret Service knew that Trump's J6 mob was armed with guns when they marched to the Capitol from the Ellipse -- at Trump's behest. Ornato had also received multiple communiques about the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers pledging possible violence to support a Trump dictatorship on January 6th-- which he repeatedly claimed to "not recall" during his testimony to Rep. LIz Cheney and the J6 investigators.* His only intervention was to prevent Trump from going to the Capitol, then having Brian What's-His-Face drive to the Capitol to remove Mike Pence from the premises so that he couldn't certify Joe Biden's Electoral College victory. * GPO-J6-TRANSCRIPT-CTRL0000929721.pdf (govinfo.gov) Edited Tuesday at 09:08 PM by W. Niederhut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted Tuesday at 09:57 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 09:57 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, Gerry Down said: I think no sutures were needed because the wound was 2cm wide and the ear is cartilage. You can't suture a 2cm wide wound. Just best to leave it and put some gauze on it. Nothing tore through the cartilage. There was no hole. According to the AP, Trump's doctor said the bullet track “produced a 2 cm wide wound that extended down to the cartilaginous surface of the ear. There was initially significant bleeding, followed by marked swelling of the entire upper ear.” “Given the broad and blunt nature of the wound itself, no sutures were required.” Edited Tuesday at 10:05 PM by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted Tuesday at 10:10 PM Author Share Posted Tuesday at 10:10 PM William, I agree on that. The Secret Service has been a lawless agency since 1963. FInally, someone was called to task for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted Tuesday at 10:36 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 10:36 PM 36 minutes ago, Pat Speer said: Nothing tore through the cartilage. There was no hole. According to the AP, Trump's doctor said the bullet track “produced a 2 cm wide wound that extended down to the cartilaginous surface of the ear. There was initially significant bleeding, followed by marked swelling of the entire upper ear.” “Given the broad and blunt nature of the wound itself, no sutures were required.” I would imagine if the bullet just grazed the ear, it would leave the type of wound described. Perhaps a millimetre contact. But I'm not a ballistics expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Morrow Posted Wednesday at 04:57 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:57 AM This discussion thread, like so many that get posted to the Education Forum JFK assassination thread - is completely off topic. This should be get moved to Political Discussions. Hey, HOW ABOUT WE TALK ABOUT THE JFK ASSASSINATION OVER HERE?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Jesus Posted Wednesday at 10:02 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:02 AM IMO, Rowley's failure to discipline those agents who spent the night before drinking in Fort Worth should have been enough to have resulted in his resignation or firing. In addition, Greer, Lawson, Boring, Sorrels and Roberts all should have been fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Down Posted Wednesday at 10:57 AM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:57 AM Elm street was sloped. So there was a safety factor there. I wonder which is more sloped - Elm street or the Butler roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted Wednesday at 01:33 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 01:33 PM 17 hours ago, Pat Speer said: I am hoping a thorough investigation will be performed. This will show, I suspect, that Trump was not in fact struck by an intact bullet, but by a fragment or piece of something struck by a bullet. Trump's doctor said no sutures were needed...IOW...that there was no hole or tear on the ear. That is not the wound one obtains from the impact of a high-velocity bullet. PS- I am puzzled by your statement that Trump was struck by a shard of glass, or other material. There was some internet jibber-jabber about a shard of glass from a shattered teleprompter striking Trump, but that has been completely debunked, as photos showed the teleprompter undamaged. No one credible seems to think anything other than that Trump was struck in the ear by a bullet. How could a bullet strike something else and send some materials flying toward Trump---but leave no such evidence? BTW, getting shot at does not make a man a hero. I credit Trump with his fist pump. That was the right signal to send to any assassin by any candidate for public office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ulrik Posted Wednesday at 01:40 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 01:40 PM 8 hours ago, Robert Morrow said: This discussion thread, like so many that get posted to the Education Forum JFK assassination thread - is completely off topic. This should be get moved to Political Discussions. Hey, HOW ABOUT WE TALK ABOUT THE JFK ASSASSINATION OVER HERE?? Decent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted Wednesday at 04:39 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 04:39 PM 6 hours ago, Gil Jesus said: IMO, Rowley's failure to discipline those agents who spent the night before drinking in Fort Worth should have been enough to have resulted in his resignation or firing. In addition, Greer, Lawson, Boring, Sorrels and Roberts all should have been fired. I am fairly certain that wasn't his decision. The decision from on high (LBJ and his advisers) was that no one should bear any blame beyond Oswald. Heck, Hoover decided that Hosty should be punished, but failed to act until after the Warren Report was issued. It was all about the PR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted Wednesday at 06:49 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 06:49 PM The point that the shooter looked up the JFK assassination to see how far the Sixth floor was from Kennedy? How does it get any closer than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Cole Posted Thursday at 12:09 AM Share Posted Thursday at 12:09 AM 5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: The point that the shooter looked up the JFK assassination to see how far the Sixth floor was from Kennedy? How does it get any closer than that? JD- It is interesting that this time around, the Congress seems to want answers. I do not not anymore recall the day-to-day action after 11/22/63, but my memory was that first there was proposed a Texas Board of Inquiry, but then LBJ created the WC, and took all the air out of the room. I do not recall Congress back then saying "Oh no, we are forming our own committee and investigation." That did not happen until the underfunded and booby-trapped HSCA. This is what the (bipartisan!) House put out two days ago: https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-secret-service-director-kimberly-cheatle-fails-to-answer-basic-questions-and-must-resign-following-historic-security-failures-at-president-trumps-rally-/ Hearing Wrap Up: Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle Fails to Answer Basic Questions and Must Resign Following Historic Security Failures at President Trump’s Rally WASHINGTON—The House Committee on Oversight and Accountability held a hearing today titled, “Oversight of the U.S. Secret Service and the Attempted Assassination of President Donald J. Trump.” At the hearing, Republican and Democrat members pressed U.S. Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle for answers on the egregious security lapses that led to the attempted assassination of President Trump, the murder of an innocent victim, and harm to others in the crowd at the campaign rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. Director Cheatle could not or refused to answer basic questions from Committee members, leading Republican and Democrat members to call for Director Cheatle’s immediate resignation. The American people demand answers and the House Oversight Committee will work with Speaker Mike Johnson’s Task Force to investigate this security failure and examine solutions to ensure it does not happen again. Key Takeaways: U.S. Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle repeatedly failed to answer basic questions from Republicans and Democrats related to stunning operational failures that led to the attempted assassination of President Trump. Key Questions Director Cheatle failed to answer: Did the Secret Service deny President Trump’s campaign additional security? If so, when and how many times? Why did Secret Service fail to secure a rooftop in proximity to the rally site and with a clear view of President Trump’s podium? Were agents positioned at the rally site affiliated with Secret Service or another Department? Was there any intelligence gathered by Secret Service on the gunman? How were Secret Service resources deployed at the rally site? Was their advanced planning by Secret Service leading up to the campaign rally? In their closing remarks, Chairman James Comer and Ranking Member Jamie Raskin announced a joint letter calling on U.S. Secret Service Director Kimberly Cheatle to resign. The Oversight Committee has a strong record of bipartisan oversight of the U.S. Secret Service and will work with Speaker Mike Johnson’s Task Force to investigate and ensure these failures never happen again. Member Highlights: Committee Chairman James Comer emphasized the Secret Service has a zero-fail mission, but it failed on July 13 and in the days leading up to the attempted assassination of President Trump. Given the historic security failures in Pennsylvania, the Secret Service has become a face of incompetence and Chairman Comer urged Director Cheatle to resign. ---30--- Cheatle, appointed personally and alone by Biden (as are all SS directors) does not answer "basic questions"? Why did Biden bring Cheatle back into the SS in 2022? Why did Biden can the highly regarded Director James Murray, a near 30-year veteran of the Secret Service, for Cheatle in 2022? Was there a conspiracy to eliminate Trump (I mean a physical one)? Probably not, but we do not know, and it should be investigated. That is one of the lessons of the JFKA/RFK1A events. And the JFKA/RFK1A research community deserves some credit for teaching the public that conspiracies have happened. And get a load of this headline. Some people have pondered the purpose of first-day coverage of the JFKA. Well....is anybody tighter with one of the major political parties than CNN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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