Nix Film

[Robin Unger]

Excellent animation from "Jerry Organ" showing the shift from Zapruder's camera LOS to Nix's camera LOS.

Edited Tuesday at 03:22 PM by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Muchmore Gif

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:23 PM by Robin Unger

[Paul Bacon]

17 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

Yes, and not only were the films taken from two different filming positions.

They were taken from two vastly different height positions, Nix was at ground level looking across the limo.

While Zapruder was standing on top the pedestal filming from above the limo.

Robin, I'm not so sure the films were taken at "vastly" different heights.  In the Nix film, I'm looking down on the limo trunk.  I'm also looking down on the knoll steps--it's not until I look at the pedestal Z was standing on, that I can no longer look down on it.  In other words, it seems to me Nix's camera lens was about the same height as the pedestal Z was standing on--what's that, maybe 5-8" difference in height?

It still looks to me like, in the Nix film, Jackie's body is more flat against the trunk at the moment of the fullest extent of her reach, which is not seen in the Z-film.

[Paul Bacon]

The Muchmore gif is interesting.  A lot to see at the moment of bullet impact.

[Richard Price]

I don't know what everyone else sees and can't do the fairly complex math to account for the angular differences, but the thing that catches my attention is this:  Jackie (I think is quoted/attributed at some point) with saying she retrieved a portion of her husband's head.  In the Nix film, her right hand can be seen (I believe) to reach the raised portion of very rear of the center of the trunk where she appears to grab the piece of brain/scalp matter which has been sliding rearward.  This seems to me to mean that her right hand at least, reached the absolute rear edge of the trunk before she began moving back towards the rear seat.  She seems to reach the most rearward position, grasp the fragment, then begin to reverse direction before Clint Hill begins to push her the same direction.

[Robin Unger]

[Chris Bristow]

I think the problem of adjusting for angular speed can be avoided by using stationary objects like Mary Moorman or Z's pedestal in the Nix film to measure how much of the limo passes by those stationary objects frame by frame. The distance of the stationary object to the limo does not matter, it just needs to be stationary to measure the progress of the limo past it.
 I understand that a limo traveling at an angle to the camera does change how much of it would pass by Mary Moorman frame by frame. If the limo is traveling at a 45 degree angle to the camera it will take twice as many frames for it to pass Moorman than if it was moving directly across Z's field of view. But at that 45 degree angle the limo's length, from Z's view, is cut in half. This make the angular speed a non issue because the limo's length being reduced by 1/2 perfectly compensates for the fact that the limo would take twice as long to pass by Moorman when traveling at the 45 degree angle.
 We know the length of the limo and its separate sections down to the inch, that allows for  a ruler to be correctly sized under the image of the limo. From the taillight to the front fin at the headlight is about 249".  Place a 249mm ruler under the limo and 1mm will equal 1 inch. To adjust the ruler for a limo moving at a 45 degree angle, all you have to do it shrink the 249mm ruler to match the shrunken length of the limo as seen from 45 degrees. 
  Using a stationary object to measure the limo's progress down Elm also eliminates the need to consider how Z's framing of the limo keeps changing. When Z pans a bit too fast it does cause the limo to change position in the frame but so does a stationary object like Moorman. When using Moorman as the marker to measure the progress of the limo down Elm, the framing of the image is not relevant to the measurement of Moorman vs the limo within the frame. To put it another way, Moorman's position relative to the limo only changes because of the limo's motion and does not change as the camera jiggles or pans too fast/slow.
   Comparing Z's pedestal to the limo in Nix, I get the limo moving at around 8mph at its slowest(I think that is around 18 frames after the head shot.). If the film is altered then of course 8mph does not represent reality, but 8 mph is what the films shows.

Edited Tuesday at 10:18 PM by Chris Bristow

[Jonathan Cohen]

30 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

Comparing Z's pedestal to the limo in Nix, I get the limo moving at around 8mph at its slowest(I think that is around 18 frames after the head shot.)

Which is exactly within the range of the estimates that have been given for more than 60 years -- ie., there's no substantive case for alteration here.

[Robin Unger]

[Chris Bristow]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Cohen said:

Which is exactly within the range of the estimates that have been given for more than 60 years -- ie., there's no substantive case for alteration here.

This range of estimates you referenced are based on the Z, Nix and Muchmore films right? Well my estimates are based on the same films, the same data. Of course they match!! My results only help to confirm that the film analysis shows a speed of 8 mph. The matching results say nothing about the issue of alteration.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

18 hours ago, Paul Bacon said:

The Muchmore gif is interesting.  A lot to see at the moment of bullet impact.

If u have a close look frame by frame of the full Muchmore footage u can see that there is no "hole" on the windshield before the headshot, & that there is a "hole"after.

The "hole" was due to the small remnant slug of Hickey's headshot (the last shot of his accidental auto burst) hitting the windshield.

[Chris Davidson]

8 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

 This make the angular speed a non issue
  If the film is altered then of course 8mph does not represent reality, but 8 mph is what the films shows.

AI agrees.

Conclusion:

Given these interpretations, we confirm the calculations(This result is based on slightly/more precise data than what Chris B supplied)

No Significant Difference Due to Angular Speed: The true speed of the car calculated as Vc = X mph holds consistent despite small variations due to rotational impact, assuming precise synchronization in linear angular alignment.

What type of angular accelerations does Alvarez see?

Sorry about this added response Robin, maybe Chris B can continue it in a different thread.

Carry on.

 

[Denise Hazelwood]

I’m looking at the people and objects on the stairs. 3 definite people and 2 somethings (Hudson in white cap, the guy next to him in a light shirt and darker jacket and black or dark pants, and red shirt guy below them, plus something higher up on the right side of the stairs, and something at the bottom on the left). In Muchmore, the thing at the top of the stairs looks like a person (or perhaps an abandoned motorcycle?) sitting on the grass next to the stairs, definitely 3D. In Muchmore it looks like a step. The thing at the bottom looks like darker grass in one film and looks like something that was dropped on the sidewalk in another. 
 

I’m also looking at motorcycle officer Chaney, who seems to stop his bike at about the same time that SSA Jack Ready steps off the running board. Chaney was supposed to have sped up to alert the lead car that JFK had been hit.

[Brian Scantland]

On 10/1/2024 at 1:58 AM, Robin Unger said:

Muchmore Gif

 

It doesn’t appear that the coats of the two women move at all during the gif — specifically the bottom right. 
 

What could explain this? If it were wind, I’d expect to see the costs flutter. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:21 PM by Brian Scantland

[Robin Unger]

1 hour ago, Denise Hazelwood said:

I’m looking at the people and objects on the stairs. 3 definite people and 2 somethings (Hudson in white cap, the guy next to him in a light shirt and darker jacket and black or dark pants, and red shirt guy below them, plus something higher up on the right side of the stairs, and something at the bottom on the left). In Muchmore, the thing at the top of the stairs looks like a person (or perhaps an abandoned motorcycle?) sitting on the grass next to the stairs, definitely 3D. In Muchmore it looks like a step. The thing at the bottom looks like darker grass in one film and looks like something that was dropped on the sidewalk in another. 
 

I’m also looking at motorcycle officer Chaney, who seems to stop his bike at about the same time that SSA Jack Ready steps off the running board. Chaney was supposed to have sped up to alert the lead car that JFK had been hit.

Officer Chaney can be seen coming up from behind in the McIntire photo. (Identification: Gary  Mack)