James Jesus Angleton

Tim Gratz · October 21, 2007

John wrote:

And if only the "Mafia did it" posters would consider the fact that most of these

"Mob did it" suspects were the constant targets of wire-taps, bugs and surveillance during the early 1960's they

would realize how ridiculous their choice of perps actually is. These guys could not even fart without having it

recorded. How could they possibly plan and discuss a Regicide plot? Seriously! The Mob was under both legal

and borderline illegal surveillance from local, State and Federal authorities and these groups sometimes ran into

each other in an attempt to get every phone call and every toilet flush recorded

John I guess you could call me one of the "Mafia did it posters". (But see the caveat below.)

You said: "These guys could not even fart without having it recorded."

BUT--if the surveillance was THAT extensive (the FBI even had to listen to the sounds of their bodily functions says John), then the FBI would have known, in advance, every robbery, every kidnapping, every extortion, every murder, planned by the Mafia; could have (would have) prevented them and would have rounded up the conspirators. And the Mafia as we know it would have been out of business!

Moreover nobody that I know of says "the Mafia (as an entity) did it. There were at best three mafia dons involved (Giancana, Trafficante and Marcello).

Edited October 21, 2007 by Tim Gratz

October 21, 2007

Regarding the confusion concerning the The Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, also known as the Shickshinny Knights of Malta, being an authorised Vatican Order of SMOM, the following is of significance:

http://www.geocities.com/noelcox/Creation.htm

Quote:

"No other Order, whether it be newly instituted or derived from a mediæval Order having the same name, enjoys such recognition, as the Holy See is not in a position to guarantee its historical and juridical legitimacy. This is also the case with regard to the above-mentioned Sovereign Order of St John of Jerusalem which assumes, in an almost identical form and in such a way as to cause ambiguity, the name of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta".(15)

Unquote

The full style of SMOM is:

The Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta (known as the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM), Order of Malta or Knights of Malta for short)

The acknowledged expert on Chivalric Order, Guy St. Stair Santy has written (Google) extensively on so called "fake" orders of which the Shickshinny Knights is included.

So far as I am aware the authorised SMOM donot have a "Military Affairs Committee" as stated by John above. To the best of my knowledge, this peculairity is only a Shickshinny Knights structure.

Charles Drago · October 21, 2007

The "Mafia" did it???

What the hell is "the Mafia"?

One of the most persistent, significant shortcomings of the self-annointed experts in this case is their failure to understand that within the deep political structure there are no meaningful distinctions whatsoever between and among organized crime, big business, and intelligence agencies (civilian, military, public, private, religious) and their patsy and puppet offshoots.

None.

Each and every either/or Mafia/M.I. complex/CIA/anti-Beard/pro-Beard/commie/capitalist/fascist/big oil/big vinnegar did it accusation and debate serves only to debilitate us and prolong the cover-up and delay justice and empower the assassins.

In which category would you place Roselli/Rawlston? LCN? CIA?

How about El Indio?

Or Trafficante, Harvey, King?

Care to pigeon-hole Maheu, anyone?

Hell, how about LHO? Or HLO?

Remember, you can choose ONE and ONLY ONE affiliation.

Have we learned NOTHING???

Charles

Edited October 21, 2007 by Charles Drago

October 21, 2007

Bravo Charles. If I were to choose a definition of whodunit, I would adopt Peter Dale Scott’s definition of the forces of “Deep Politics” – a combination of big business, organised crime, the military industrial complex and the intelligence community. In the penultimate group, I would be inclined to place the Bormann Brotherhood and the vast funds they had at their disposal. Those connected to the secret fraternity of knightly orders, I would squarely place in the intelligence community grouping – as an arms length action arm.

In brief, you might say it was a “Coalition of the Willing”…

I would argue that all of them – to greater or lesser degrees - are or were prone to a fascist philosophy of control. I would point out also, for those unaware of the Nazi angle as expounded by Mae Brussell and others, that Hitler’s regime gave way, after the war (arguably anyway) to a more pragmatic approach of global domination; namely that of the “free enterprise” model of financial capitalism – and that, further, this became supranational in its breadth and scope.

I refer you to Chapter 13 of William Stevenson’s book THE BORMANN BROTHERHOOD and an interview Stevenson had with Horace Greeley Schacht, which is illuminating in this regard.

Stevenson: “You mentioned the Circle of Friends?”

Schacht: “A foolish group of men. They can only do us harm.”

(“Us” being the post war Bormann Brotherhood)

Stevenson continued his narrative: “I suddenly realised that he was talking [of Himmler’s-Bormann’s Circle of Friends] in the present tense.” At this point he adds an asterisk to a footnote about the Circle of Friends coming into the open in a new form favouring Franz Josef Strauss. This, almost certainly is Le cercle – aka the Pinay Circle, that included such nazi luminaries as Franz Josef Strauss, Archduke Otto von Habsburg and others that crowed about placing Margaret Thatcher in 10 Downing Street as Prime Minister. Le Cercle is also, as was made plain by Robert Hutchison in his book THEIR KINGDOM COME, the action arm of Opus Dei (see pages 155-6 of Hutchison’s book). “It was” Hutchison says of Le Cercle “plugged into virtually every west European intelligence service” (a fact that was voluntarily confirmed to me by a former CIA type… without me asking). Hutchison also goes into some detail about SMOM in regard to these matters – likewise the Vatican offshoot, Pro Fratribus, that the suicided Milanese banker, Roberto Calvi (P2) funded.

I labour these points because there has long been a trend to disassociate or downplay the Vatican from its past Nazi dealings. In saying this I am not attacking Catholicism --- just the Vatican as a state. A bloody and criminal state, too.

Further on in the Schacht interview:

Stevenson: “Funk [Walther Emanuel of Hitler’s Reichsbank] has told interrogators that the Circle of Friends broke up automatically, but the Brotherhood functions now to support Bormann.”

Schacht: “Funk said that?”

Stevenson: “ So it is reported.”

Schacht: “Funk was always a fool.” “The Circle of Friends was a source of money, no thanks to Funk.”

Stevenson: “And the Brotherhood?”

“Die Deutsche Gemeinschaft. I know nothing…”

Stevenson later (page 138) states that Schacht’s aim was to “build an empire and win control over foreign economies by stealth and cunning.

According to Paul Manning’s book on Martin Bormann, this was achieved, in part anyway, by investing vast sums of money into US public stocks and bonds.

We only need to add into this tapestry the well-known connections of the Bush family to the Nazi Party and the picture clarifies considerably.

The Coalition of the Willing is structured along the lines of big business (who in any case largely supported Hitler’s rise to power from their bases in the US, Britain, France as well as in Germany), using subservient state/s machinery that has been slowly tuned to a fascist melody, to gain domination of the global market place – by “stealth and cunning” as stated by Schacht.

But just my take on it...

David

John Bevilaqua · October 21, 2007

From: Claudio
? It was Luce that talked of the assassination in the famous interview, later in the phone recorded conversation with Colby.

She talked of "her" cuban people, of Pawley, of LHO part of a three men assassination team trained in Mexico City... don't you remember?

Claudio,

Not to worry. Most of us are aware of the many "roles" played by Clare Booth Luce and her coterie of associates in

the JFK Assassination (especially her right wing deflection campaigns). Clare was a supporter of Senator Barry Goldwater (both she

and her husband lived in Arizona at this time, Goldwater's home state) and she was a longtime friend of William Pawley who lost millions when Castro took over his Cuban transportion empires. Most of her activities were designed to encourage a military strike against Cuba after the assassination so Bill Pawley could recover his fortune. She wanted Goldwater to be elected President as well and pitched in on the Bayo-Pawley affair which was designed to embarass JFK as they delivered the alleged Soviet officers to Goldwater's ranch. This was told to me by Nathaniel Weyl in a phone interview.

And most of all she was a Dame of the Knights of Malta which puts her in contact with the likes of other SMOM members who were

independently identified by multiple "serious" researchers as being culpable in the JFK hit. Those among us who insist that "the Mob did it" or "the Jews did it" or "the Gays did it" or "the Commies did it" just can not and will not accept any evidence which is contrary to their lifelong thesis. And they have yet to figure out that the Far Reich did it and have been blaming the "Enemies of the Reich" listed above for decades. Go figure.

I am adding Clare Booth Luce to my list of Top Five Deflectors and Obfuscators. Along with Dr. Revilo P. Oliver, Rev. Billy James

Hargis, Dr. Robert Morris and Rev. Gerald L K Smith who all took alternative convenient potshots at there 4 favorite scapegoats. Poor

Ruby, perhaps the only person who was scapegoated for ALL 4 alleged reasons is their ideal scapegoat. He was supposedly the only

Mob affiliated, Jewish, Communist, Homosexual they could find I guess. Some among us, are easily persuaded to follow the Reich

Wing Party Line and others are not so easily convinced. The lesson to be learned here is that there were and still are very strong

Mind Control influences being exerted on students of the JFK hit. And some people are more susceptible to Brain Washing than others.

You could write an entire article on The Subtle Effects of Brainwashing on the JFK Assassination Investigation (and the Investigators).

Don't bother trying to counter their feeble or inane arguments. A Mind is a Terrible Thing to Waste or to Brainwash.

There are others here who keep insisting that the book "Hitler's Pope" was also "right" about Pope Pius XII despite

the fact that the author himself RECANTED his statements after publication of "The Myth of Hitler's Pope" by a Rabbi who

should know Fact from Fiction and Right Wing palpable misstatements from Facts. See my threads on this topic and do

a Google search. Also your link to "Vatican Assassins" proves that Pius XII actually launched 3 attempts at "Tyrannicide" against Hitler despite the risks to his life and to the safety of the Vatican.

There are only a few JFK types on any posting site:

1) The Brainwashed (who sometimes become Brainwashers)

2) The Brainwashers (both deliberate and inadvertent)

3) The Truthful Fact Seekers and the Solution Discoverers

When you can readily recognize the first two on sight, you can join group 3.

This is the real challenge of The JFK Research Community.

Ciao.

John Bevilaqua · October 21, 2007

? It was Luce that talked of the assassination in the famous interview, later in the phone recorded conversation with Colby.

She talked of "her" cuban people, of Pawley, of LHO part of a three men assassination team trained in Mexico City... don't you remember?