James Jesus Angleton

[James Richards]

If anyone wants to get a perspective from close up, may I suggest contacting James Angleton Jr.

I am pretty sure he is still president of the Ted Shackley Miami Chapter of the Association of Former Intelligence Officers.

His email address is - Jim_Angleton@msn.com

FWIW.

James

Do you know anything about Jr.'s background and experience in Intel Ops? This is beginning

to sound like some sort of "family business" with James Hugh being in OSS, but on the other

side, James Jesus being outed as a Nazi mole, then Jr. inheriting the reins. How old is he now?

I assume he is retired, correct? Would Jr. even be willing to share any of the family secrets?

John,

May I suggest Googling "James Angleton Jr." regarding his background. He is a prominent member of the Dade County business community which includes being named as one of Ronald McDonald House's 'twelve good men'. I would think that he is about 50 these days.

As to what he is willing to share, I guess one can only ask.

Here is the website for the Ted Shackley Miami Chapter of the AFIO. There is also a contact phone number listed as well.

http://www.geocities.com/afiomdc/

James

[William Kelly]

Angleton was right!

James Jesus Angleton's concern that the Soviets had "moles" in high stations in the U.S. intelligence community was probably correct even if he was unsuccessful in locating them. The "reforms" of the Church Committee and the CIA intself following the revlations of the CIA abuses decimated Angleton's counter-intelligence operation with tragic results. Several CIA "assets" lost their lives as a result of the betrayals of Aldrich Ames. a.j. weberman states on his web-site that had the Angleton operation been in operation, Ames would have been discovered before he had wreaked all of his damage.

And consider this example. Willliam Charles Godell was a member of one of the Pentagon's most secret offices, the Advanced Research Projects Agency. President Johnson nominated him to be the director of the National Security Agency. As director, Godell would have had extraordinary access to U.S. intelligence information. But it was discovered that Godell was probably a Soviet mole. The US was unable to indict Godell for espionage because the man to whom he was handing documents was either murdered or commited suicide. To prevent Godell from ever again holding a government job, he was instead indicted and convicted for misspending appropriated government funds.

Tim,

Consider the NSA is also the source of the black propaganda report that Castro was behind the assassination of JFK and wanted to kill President Reagan, which was leaked to the Scripps-Howard News Agency (SHNA) shortly before Hinkley stepped out of the shadows.

And your primary source for the KGB being the source of the "Dear Mr. Hunt" letter in LHO's handwriting, Mitrokin established his bonifides with MI5 by outing a low level NSA clerk and Soviet agent in place who claimed that the NSA records indicate JFK's real assassin was Luis Angel Castillo.

And finally, as you mention Angleton's search for moles, one Major Soviet Mole belatedly identified, Sir Anthony Blunt, was most certainly one of the Cambridge spy ring's most successful operators - along with Kim Philby, Guy Burgess and Donald MacLean.

As Surveyor of the Queens Pictures, Blunt was one of the foremost authorities on art in the world, yet it was arranged for him to give a series of lectures and attend a stay in residence at the relatively small and unhearald art department of Penn State, better known for its football team.

At the time Blunt visited, in 1963, one of art students registered at the school, Julio Fernandez, Jr., was the son of the publisher of a Cuban newspaper in exile in the USA, who was investigated in the assassination of the President Kennedy.

Could this Julio Fernandez, Jr. be one and the same "Julio Fernandez" who was a commando team leader at JMWAVE, supported and written about by Clare Booth Luce, wife of Life Magazine publisher Henry Luce?

What are the implications of a KGB-MI5 Double-Agent Supreme Kommandante, in direct back-channel communications with an anti-Castro Cuba Commando team leader involved in terrorist raids against Cuba and Russian shipping, later implicated in the assassination of President Kennedy?

How come those who try to pin the assassination on Castro and Soviets don't even mention or investigate this further to prove their point?

Certainly James Jesus Angleton should have been on top of not only the TOP KGB MI5 Doubleagent visiting USA, but also his possible association with the Cuban commandos?

BK

[Tim Gratz]

Very interesting post, Bill! I want to study it further. But I do think you are stretching it to say that Blunt was in "back-channel communication" with "an anti-Castro commando team leader" merely because he gave art lectures at Penn State, where the (apparent) son of that man was an art student. But it is an interesting POSSIBLE connection.

I'm sure I have said this before. Both pro-Castro and anti-Castro forces had perceived reasons to want JFK out of the presidency. It is certainly possible anti-Castro Cubans could have been influenced to act by a person or persons whose agenda was in fact pro-Castro, or vice-versa for that matter. What better way for a clever assassin to act than to persuade someone else to actually perform the act? Then should the person who took the shots be caught, the cause for which you are operating is in the clear.

[John Bevilaqua]

Angleton was right!

James Jesus Angleton's concern that the Soviets had "moles" in high stations in the U.S. intelligence community was probably correct even if he was unsuccessful in locating them. The "reforms" of the Church Committee and the CIA intself following the revlations of the CIA abuses decimated Angleton's counter-intelligence operation with tragic results. Several CIA "assets" lost their lives as a result of the betrayals of Aldrich Ames. a.j. weberman states on his web-site that had the Angleton operation been in operation, Ames would have been discovered before he had wreaked all of his damage.

And consider this example. Willliam Charles Godell was a member of one of the Pentagon's most secret offices, the Advanced Research Projects Agency. President Johnson nominated him to be the director of the National Security Agency. As director, Godell would have had extraordinary access to U.S. intelligence information. But it was discovered that Godell was probably a Soviet mole. The US was unable to indict Godell for espionage because the man to whom he was handing documents was either murdered or commited suicide. To prevent Godell from ever again holding a government job, he was instead indicted and convicted for misspending appropriated government funds.

Tim,

...snipped...

As Surveyor of the Queens Pictures, Blunt was one of the foremost authorities on art in the world, yet it was arranged for him to give a series of lectures and attend a stay in residence at the relatively small and unhearald art department of Penn State, better known for its football team.

At the time Blunt visited, in 1963, one of art students registered at the school, Julio Fernandez, Jr., was the son of the publisher of a Cuban newspaper in exile in the USA, who was investigated in the assassination of the President Kennedy.

Could this Julio Fernandez, Jr. be one and the same "Julio Fernandez" who was a commando team leader at JMWAVE, supported and written about by Clare Booth Luce, wife of Life Magazine publisher Henry Luce?

...snipped...

Certainly James Jesus Angleton should have been on top of not only the TOP KGB MI5 Doubleagent visiting USA, but also his possible association with the Cuban commandos?

BK

Bill,

Wasn't there a bit more to this story if my memory serves me correctly? Something about the next tenant at the Julio

Fernandez residence in PA finding some leftover travel itineraries and or ticket stubs showing suspicious movements to Miami just

before the mid-November trip there by JFK? And perhaps some anti-JFK or anti-Castro literature, too? It is a bit fuzzy in my mind but then again so is almost everything at this point.

John B

[Guest David Guyatt]

On Angleton's ability to influence the Vatican, I have been told by two different sources that he learned that Pope Pius X11 was an active homosexual and was able, therefore, to bring blackmail to bear. I believe (but obviously cannot prove) this to be true. I had included it in an article I once wrote but one of the sources involved -- connected to a blood relative of Pius in fact, requested it be edited out.

There is more hidden about the Nazi-Vatican-Ratlines nexus than has been revealed, I think. Not least, a little known former SA and later SS officer who was very close to Himmler, was found to have a comfy berth there during and after the war, despite the fact that he officially died in a skiing accident in the Alps in 1939. The officer, it seems, was also in a position to heavily "influence" Vatican decisions owing to certain matters he became knowledgeable about prior to the war regarding Vatican history. That knowledge was brought to bear on behalf of the Reichsfuhrer SS and, as I mentioned above, the officer was placed insided the Vatican a few months ahead of outbreak of the war in Europe.

In regard to Montini, I believe it most likely that he was involved in the Ratlines, as has been suggested by others, simply because of these two influences that were brought to bear. One of which is lasting and one less so.

This may be one of the controversial areas where we have to "agree to disagree". Let me share with you a little first hand

experience with the person who was going to do Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso's ghosted autobiography until I set him straight on the guy.

This was shortly before Corso came out with his "Alien Autopsy" books in an attempt to get rich quickly. The person I am

citing was the father of James Cypher who attended the Albany JFK Conference in the mid-1990's and they both lived and might

still live in the Albany, NY area today.

Jim sent me a little clipping from the Jupiter, Florida local newspaper quoting Corso on his relationship with Montini. It is buried

somewhere in boxes of research so I can only paraphrase from memory right now. But here is what Corso said as memory recalls.

"I worked very closely with Giovanni Battista Montini and Jim Angleton in processing the Nazi War Criminals going through the

Vatican. Every week we would get a list of those requesting credentials and we would tell the Papal Nuncio: 'We want this guy

or that guy very badly." We would tell him to give these War Criminals the paperwork and the documents they would need to

leave the country then send them out the side door exit from the Vatican where we would be waiting for them in a Jeep loaded with

MPs to whisk them away to justice. You have no idea how many of these War Criminals we got using this method. Giovanni

trusted us immensely and helped us in any way he could. Many others got their credentials from him but did not need any

"special handling" like we arranged for those targeted for incarceration. They just followed normal channels to get to safety.

This is admittedly the perfect way to obtain credentials for known War Criminals via the Vatican followed by a clandestine meeting with

either friendly MPs or fake MPs in doctored/real military jeeps. It had to look like these guys were really being "arrested" and

taken away to justice in order for Montini to continue the ruse. To me this is a far better explanation of the alleged "complicity" of

the eventual Pope Pius XII than the other 2 versions proposed: "As a Witting Accomplice" or "As a blackmailed victim". Quite

frankly Montini was just no match for Angleton, Dulles, Corso, Wisner and Company in the OSS. Everyone has had over 70 years

to figure this one out and no one has bothered to contact Corso or Corso's ghost writer for more inside information. A pre-disposition

towards "Witting Accomplice" by many writers has hidden the truth for decades. To try to give Montini an "easy out" by saying

he was a "blackmailed witting accomplice" just does not quite cut it either. Try to look into the Corso background and the background

of both Jim and Hugh Angleton and the backgrounds of Wisner, Dulles and others and the real facts will become quite obvious. The

simplest explanation is usually the best one. There are really no holes in this theory and while Corso did not admit to his subterfuge

it is quite apparent what he and Angleton were really doing, for me at least. And these Ratline Express types would have to feel

comfortable that they were really getting "official credentials" in order for them to return to the Vatican, look at the papers and walk

willingly and wittingly through the back channel exit to "safety". The initial shock of seeing a Jeep full of MPs waiting for them would

be quickly reversed as soon as they had driven away from the Vatican Ratline exit door. Followed by laughter and Nazi salutes.

Corso WAS always a Nazi and so was Angleton and his Father. If you can not accept this then you will never understand the

Vatican Ratlines. Never.

Regards,

John Bevilaqua

John,

I'm not at all sure that the two "versions" are mutually exclusive, to be perfectly frank.

The Ratlines were used for many escapades including moving nazi gold to the US where it was allegedly used to "repatriate" pre-war loans by some of the larger banks. A case of private enterprise using private channels for its own benfit.

Also, and for no particular reason, I very much doubt that Montini (with the Vatican apparatus behind him) was no match for Angleton and co. Firstly, Montini was Secretary of State prior to becoming Pope Paul VI and had hauled his clerical ass to a position of power inside the Vatican --a feat that took political grit rather than spiritual connectivity. Secondly, the Vatican has been running intelligence and military operations for almost two thousand years and in the way of the world were (and are) far more cunning, skilled and ruthless than people imagine. Certainly they were enriched in these qualities in comparison to the newly formed OSS -- that by 1945/6 hadn't yet learned to shave... and had learned their skills from us Brits who had a history of intelligensers that goes back to Tudor times fighting Roman sovereignty.

On Corso, I don't trust the guy at all. I know some of his background in the Shickshinny's and have followed some of their connections too. It ain't pleasant. I also am of the view that his popular book on Rosell was not just motivated by dollar signs spinning across his eyes. There was a very strong disinformation quality involved that was aimed at making advanced nazi aircraft technology appear to be the realm of aliens -- i.e., make believe. There were other factors also that had less to do with technology and more to do with swaying minds etc.

David

[Guest David Guyatt]

On Angleton's ability to influence the Vatican, I have been told by two different sources that he learned that Pope Pius X11 was an active homosexual and was able, therefore, to bring blackmail to bear. I believe (but obviously cannot prove) this to be true. I had included it in an article I once wrote but one of the sources involved -- connected to a blood relative of Pius in fact, requested it be edited out.

There is more hidden about the Nazi-Vatican-Ratlines nexus than has been revealed, I think. Not least, a little known former SA and later SS officer who was very close to Himmler, was found to have a comfy berth there during and after the war, despite the fact that he officially died in a skiing accident in the Alps in 1939. The officer, it seems, was also in a position to heavily "influence" Vatican decisions owing to certain matters he became knowledgeable about prior to the war regarding Vatican history. That knowledge was brought to bear on behalf of the Reichsfuhrer SS and, as I mentioned above, the officer was placed insided the Vatican a few months ahead of outbreak of the war in Europe.

In regard to Montini, I believe it most likely that he was involved in the Ratlines, as has been suggested by others, simply because of these two influences that were brought to bear. One of which is lasting and one less so.

This may be one of the controversial areas where we have to "agree to disagree". Let me share with you a little first hand

experience with the person who was going to do Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso's ghosted autobiography until I set him straight on the guy.

This was shortly before Corso came out with his "Alien Autopsy" books in an attempt to get rich quickly. The person I am

citing was the father of James Cypher who attended the Albany JFK Conference in the mid-1990's and they both lived and might

still live in the Albany, NY area today.

Jim sent me a little clipping from the Jupiter, Florida local newspaper quoting Corso on his relationship with Montini. It is buried

somewhere in boxes of research so I can only paraphrase from memory right now. But here is what Corso said as memory recalls.

"I worked very closely with Giovanni Battista Montini and Jim Angleton in processing the Nazi War Criminals going through the

Vatican. Every week we would get a list of those requesting credentials and we would tell the Papal Nuncio: 'We want this guy

or that guy very badly." We would tell him to give these War Criminals the paperwork and the documents they would need to

leave the country then send them out the side door exit from the Vatican where we would be waiting for them in a Jeep loaded with

MPs to whisk them away to justice. You have no idea how many of these War Criminals we got using this method. Giovanni

trusted us immensely and helped us in any way he could. Many others got their credentials from him but did not need any

"special handling" like we arranged for those targeted for incarceration. They just followed normal channels to get to safety.

This is admittedly the perfect way to obtain credentials for known War Criminals via the Vatican followed by a clandestine meeting with

either friendly MPs or fake MPs in doctored/real military jeeps. It had to look like these guys were really being "arrested" and

taken away to justice in order for Montini to continue the ruse. To me this is a far better explanation of the alleged "complicity" of

the eventual Pope Pius XII than the other 2 versions proposed: "As a Witting Accomplice" or "As a blackmailed victim". Quite

frankly Montini was just no match for Angleton, Dulles, Corso, Wisner and Company in the OSS. Everyone has had over 70 years

to figure this one out and no one has bothered to contact Corso or Corso's ghost writer for more inside information. A pre-disposition

towards "Witting Accomplice" by many writers has hidden the truth for decades. To try to give Montini an "easy out" by saying

he was a "blackmailed witting accomplice" just does not quite cut it either. Try to look into the Corso background and the background

of both Jim and Hugh Angleton and the backgrounds of Wisner, Dulles and others and the real facts will become quite obvious. The

simplest explanation is usually the best one. There are really no holes in this theory and while Corso did not admit to his subterfuge

it is quite apparent what he and Angleton were really doing, for me at least. And these Ratline Express types would have to feel

comfortable that they were really getting "official credentials" in order for them to return to the Vatican, look at the papers and walk

willingly and wittingly through the back channel exit to "safety". The initial shock of seeing a Jeep full of MPs waiting for them would

be quickly reversed as soon as they had driven away from the Vatican Ratline exit door. Followed by laughter and Nazi salutes.

Corso WAS always a Nazi and so was Angleton and his Father. If you can not accept this then you will never understand the

Vatican Ratlines. Never.

Regards,

John Bevilaqua

John,

I'm not at all sure that the two "versions" are mutually exclusive, to be perfectly frank.

The Ratlines were used for many escapades including moving nazi gold to the US where it was allegedly used to "repatriate" pre-war loans by some of the larger banks. A case of private enterprise using private channels for its own benfit.

Also, and for no particular reason, I very much doubt that Montini (with the Vatican apparatus behind him) was no match for Angleton and co. Firstly, Montini was Secretary of State prior to becoming Pope Paul VI and had hauled his clerical ass to a position of power inside the Vatican --a feat that took political grit rather than spiritual connectivity. Secondly, the Vatican has been running intelligence and military operations for almost two thousand years and in the way of the world were (and are) far more cunning, skilled and ruthless than people imagine. Certainly they were enriched in these qualities in comparison to the newly formed OSS -- that by 1945/6 hadn't yet learned to shave... and had learned their skills from us Brits who had a history of intelligensers that goes back to Tudor times fighting Roman sovereignty.

On Corso, I don't trust the guy at all. I know some of his background in the Shickshinny's and have followed some of their connections too. It ain't pleasant. I also am of the view that his popular book on Rosell was not just motivated by dollar signs spinning across his eyes. There was a very strong disinformation quality involved that was aimed at making advanced nazi aircraft technology appear to be the realm of aliens -- i.e., make believe. There were other factors also that had less to do with technology and more to do with swaying minds etc.

David

[Guest David Guyatt]

Bill,

On Blunt, I am probably the only man breathing who has reservations about his official life story as a double agent. That is not to say that he wasn't a double agent btw. But it does mean that the origin and success of Bolshevik Revolution needs more careful study. In my view. I am particularly thinking of the battle for Moscow which the White Russian forces should have won - followed by the complete defeat of the Reds, but which they lost because - it seems - they were sabotaged. Thanks to a British Army officer with connections to the British crown.

All very mysterious.

Blunt was of distant royal blood and cousin to the late Queen Mother, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon via the Smith family - an old and very powerful banking line that counts amongst its members Peter Alexander Rupert Smith, known to most ofus as Lord Carrington, former Foreign Secretary and presently the man in charge of running the Garter Knights -- the most prestigious chivaric award given by the Queen to other royals and prime ministers. Lots of nazi connections here when you begin digging.

I suspect (but don't know) that Blunt was a Rosicrucian and this was one of the reasons he held the post of Surveyor of the Queen's Pictures (his distant royal blood not being a hindrance either). But it was always curious that after it became known to the royal family that he was a soviet asset that he continued in his position with leave of the Queen.

Curiously, he was the recognised world authority on the painter Nicolas Poussin, who's painting LES BERGERS d'ARCADIE held such fascination for the authors of the book HOLY BLOOD - HOLY GRAIL and which became a sort of keystone for the so called (but mythical) PRIORY OF SION. Les Bergers d'Arcadie means "The Shephers of Arcadia" which is an enduring Rosicrucian motif.

I merely note in closing, that the British secret service has its distant roots in a company of Rosicrucian "intelligensers" that included royal sons. The pre 1956 logo of the Security Service (and indeed it's current one - albeit more camouflagued) reflect these Rosicrucian roots.

So, perhaps it's a case of different goals coalescing and different battles combing....

David

[Accogli Claudio]

Hi all, I am reading a lot of mis-information here in this post!

A) Montini, Paolo VI, is well known for his work in hiding 4000 roman jews form nazi deportation after 1943

The man of the Oss in the Vatican - in the years of X-2 - is Raymond G. Rocca http://www.markriebling.com/archives/00000192.html

C) The Cia had not so much information from Vatican in late 50's: that's why they put microphones in the pope office.

D) Jfk is it said had a role in the election of Montini, giving his help to the ''progressive'' wing into the Vatican against the one led by card. Siri http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Siri

E) Montini continued the "political approach" started by Giovanni XXIII (his predecessor) and well supported by Jfk also to the birth of the center-left govt in Italy

More) don't understand why all this attention to Angleton's father: JJ is the organizer of the escaping of prince Valerio Junio Borghese, the "black prince", once leader of the XMas (all well reported by Mangold) http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima_Mas_di_Borghese

In the same period, JJ successfully recruited agents in the french, jugoslavian, italian, german, cech, intelligence.

lastampa.it

ansa.it

Edited October 20, 2007 by Accogli Claudio

[Gene Kelly]

James /John:

I am forever haunted by the smiling face of Angleton in a video clip seen many times on the History channel series (TMWKK) and its clearly him with Dulles in Dealey Plaza during a reconstruction visit. Its a quick fly-by cameo shot, but it's most assuredly him. And he's smiling/laughing, at the right hand of Dulles. Perhaps it was a visit by the Warren Commission staffers in the months that followed. But seeing his face, and his smile, and those intelligent devious deep eyes just gives me the creeps. Without any evidence or basis of fact, my instincts scream at me that he's complicit and culpable in the deed. What's your thoughts on this? (Gene Kelly)

Hi Gene,

I have a very simple view of what happened in Dealey Plaza. I don't see a huge conspiracy but a simple and contained plot where some very personal business was conducted.

The cover-up however is something completely different. This was political opportunism, maneuvering and point scoring in its finest hour. I do not believe the truth of what actually happened in Dallas served many people hence the confused mess we have today.

I have never thought Angleton was in on the assassination plot but he certainly may have put it together afterwards. Many folk were inadvertently used and abused (most unwitting) during the set-up and execution of the plot and I'm sure felt the pressure of having to tow the line during the various related investigations.

Cheers,

James

Purists and hardliners will probably never be able to accept the fact that as early as 1958, people like Richard Condon

who wrote "The Manchurian Candidate" and "Winter Kills" and "Prizzi's Honor" were quite familiar with the Right Wing

Hate Networks allied against JFK. Not only were they aware of the public statements made by these people, but many

of them had back channel connections into groups like the American Security Council, the White Citizens Councils, The

John Birch Society, etc. At this point many so called "Allied" generals had already been exposed as being, in fact,

much closer to Hitler than to FDR. Do Google searches on Albert C. Wedemeyer (who failed a Barium Leak test and

was essentially demoted), George C. Stratemeyer, Charles A. Willoughby (whom MacArthur called "My Little Fascist"),

Bonner Fellers (whom Hitler called "our best ally" for reveaing Monty's troop movements thru Angleton), or for that matter

Angleton's father Hugh Angleton who was part of OSS during WW-II but according to Tom Mangold "...was very friendly

with Mussolini and his associates." Hugh Angleton, Charles Willoughby and George Draper were cavalry officers

riding with Gen. John Pershing when they went after Pancho Villa together as professional "head hunters".

The fact remains, accept it or not, that Condon identified Angleton in The Manchurian Candidate in the personna of

"Ole Banstoffsen - Washington" which is an anagram for "H. Angleton B Waffen SS Notsi" or Hugh Angleton was a Waffen

SS Nazi". The acorn does not fall far from the tree. Jim Angleton was also a Nazi sympathizer plain and simple.

He ran the Vatican Ratlines with Col. Philip J. Corso and selectively picked the Nazi War Criminals he wanted released

into his custody by convincing Giovanni Battista Montini that they should first be given credentials then released to him

or to Corso for "incarceration". Corso himself described how he and Angleton were able to pull off this little scam in his

hometown newspaper after his retirement.

The Angleton's were either double agents or just Nazi Waffen SS Agents. Take your pick. The Honetel program was

meant to ruin careers and stifle the success of the CIA and it worked... almost perfectly. Any other interpretation borders

on almost childlike simplicity. And Seymour Hersch was "given" the evidence to justify the firing of Angleton. Hersch

could not find a BMW in a haystack. He was taken in twice by scams, once even falling for the "1st wife of JFK" scam

which first surfaced in the 1960's courtesy of Rev. Gerald L K Smith. Hersch was a barely capable journalist and a headline

chaser who jumped onto story lines to pump his career.

John:

Would you therefore conclude that Angleton was a right-wing Nazi double-agent, and thus part of a bigger scheme to murder JFK? or, as James Richards implies, he was not complicit but knowledgable afterwards? My intrigue with Angleton started when I read Norman Mailors book "Harlots Ghost" in which JJA is a central character... that book had a ring of authenticity to it. And JJA was apparently in the middle of MKULTRA and mind control (which is suspect with Ferrie, Oswald, Ruby et al). Is it too far fetched to speculate those patsies were prepared as manchurian candidates, and the plot as well as coverup masterfully manipulated by "Mother" (JJA) to further confound, convolute and hamstring the CIA? Any way you put it, JJA had to have known what really went down (and why). Plus his exploits with Nosenko and especially in the aftermath of the Mary Meyer murder seem far too involved to ignore or ascribe to coincidence. - gene

[John Bevilaqua]

James /John:

I am forever haunted by the smiling face of Angleton in a video clip seen many times on the History channel series (TMWKK) and its clearly him with Dulles in Dealey Plaza during a reconstruction visit. Its a quick fly-by cameo shot, but it's most assuredly him. And he's smiling/laughing, at the right hand of Dulles. Perhaps it was a visit by the Warren Commission staffers in the months that followed. But seeing his face, and his smile, and those intelligent devious deep eyes just gives me the creeps. Without any evidence or basis of fact, my instincts scream at me that he's complicit and culpable in the deed. What's your thoughts on this? (Gene Kelly)

Hi Gene,

I have a very simple view of what happened in Dealey Plaza. I don't see a huge conspiracy but a simple and contained plot where some very personal business was conducted.

The cover-up however is something completely different. This was political opportunism, maneuvering and point scoring in its finest hour. I do not believe the truth of what actually happened in Dallas served many people hence the confused mess we have today.

I have never thought Angleton was in on the assassination plot but he certainly may have put it together afterwards. Many folk were inadvertently used and abused (most unwitting) during the set-up and execution of the plot and I'm sure felt the pressure of having to tow the line during the various related investigations.

Cheers,

James

Purists and hardliners will probably never be able to accept the fact that as early as 1958, people like Richard Condon

who wrote "The Manchurian Candidate" and "Winter Kills" and "Prizzi's Honor" were quite familiar with the Right Wing

Hate Networks allied against JFK. Not only were they aware of the public statements made by these people, but many

of them had back channel connections into groups like the American Security Council, the White Citizens Councils, The

John Birch Society, etc. At this point many so called "Allied" generals had already been exposed as being, in fact,

much closer to Hitler than to FDR. Do Google searches on Albert C. Wedemeyer (who failed a Barium Leak test and

was essentially demoted), George C. Stratemeyer, Charles A. Willoughby (whom MacArthur called "My Little Fascist"),

Bonner Fellers (whom Hitler called "our best ally" for reveaing Monty's troop movements thru Angleton), or for that matter

Angleton's father Hugh Angleton who was part of OSS during WW-II but according to Tom Mangold "...was very friendly

with Mussolini and his associates." Hugh Angleton, Charles Willoughby and George Draper were cavalry officers

riding with Gen. John Pershing when they went after Pancho Villa together as professional "head hunters".

The fact remains, accept it or not, that Condon identified Angleton in The Manchurian Candidate in the personna of

"Ole Banstoffsen - Washington" which is an anagram for "H. Angleton B Waffen SS Notsi" or Hugh Angleton was a Waffen

SS Nazi". The acorn does not fall far from the tree. Jim Angleton was also a Nazi sympathizer plain and simple.

He ran the Vatican Ratlines with Col. Philip J. Corso and selectively picked the Nazi War Criminals he wanted released

into his custody by convincing Giovanni Battista Montini that they should first be given credentials then released to him

or to Corso for "incarceration". Corso himself described how he and Angleton were able to pull off this little scam in his

hometown newspaper after his retirement.

The Angleton's were either double agents or just Nazi Waffen SS Agents. Take your pick. The Honetel program was

meant to ruin careers and stifle the success of the CIA and it worked... almost perfectly. Any other interpretation borders

on almost childlike simplicity. And Seymour Hersch was "given" the evidence to justify the firing of Angleton. Hersch

could not find a BMW in a haystack. He was taken in twice by scams, once even falling for the "1st wife of JFK" scam

which first surfaced in the 1960's courtesy of Rev. Gerald L K Smith. Hersch was a barely capable journalist and a headline

chaser who jumped onto story lines to pump his career.

John:

Would you therefore conclude that Angleton was a right-wing Nazi double-agent, and thus part of a bigger scheme to murder JFK? or, as James Richards implies, he was not complicit but knowledgable afterwards? My intrigue with Angleton started when I read Norman Mailors book "Harlots Ghost" in which JJA is a central character... that book had a ring of authenticity to it. And JJA was apparently in the middle of MKULTRA and mind control (which is suspect with Ferrie, Oswald, Ruby et al). Is it too far fetched to speculate those patsies were prepared as manchurian candidates, and the plot as well as coverup masterfully manipulated by "Mother" (JJA) to further confound, convolute and hamstring the CIA? Any way you put it, JJA had to have known what really went down (and why). Plus his exploits with Nosenko and especially in the aftermath of the Mary Meyer murder seem far too involved to ignore or ascribe to coincidence. - gene

Check out some of my other posts here looking for "Manchurian Candidate" or Anastase Vonsiatsky who was THE Manchurian Candidate

from the novel of the same name. "Annie" was present at The Winnipeg Airport Incident in Feb of '64 discussing JFK payoffs with

friends of Wickliffe Draper as well IMHO. And even Hugh Angleton was mentioned in the novel as "Ole Banstoffsen, Washington"

which is merely one of 20 anagrams used by Richard Condon in the book. It decodes to "H. Angleton B Waffen SS Notsi" on a letter

for letter basis. Or Hugh Angleton was a closet Waffen SS Nazi which was almost the same conclusion reached by Tom Mangold,

Jim's biographer regarding his father's tightness with the Mussolini forces from the 1930's forward.

Either you are wise beyond your years or your picture is from the distant past. Nice posting.

[John Bevilaqua]

Hi all, I am reading a lot of mis-information here in this post!

A) Montini, Paolo VI, is well known for his work in hiding 4000 roman jews form nazi deportation after 1943

The man of the Oss in the Vatican - in the years of X-2 - is Raymond G. Rocca http://www.markriebling.com/archives/00000192.html

C) The Cia had not so much information from Vatican in late 50's: that's why they put microphones in the pope office.

D) Jfk is it said had a role in the election of Montini, giving his help to the ''progressive'' wing into the Vatican against the one led by card. Siri http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Siri

E) Montini continued the "political approach" started by Giovanni XXIII (his predecessor) and well supported by Jfk also to the birth of the center-left govt in Italy

More) don't understand why all this attention to Angleton's father: JJ is the organizer of the escaping of prince Valerio Junio Borghese, the "black prince", once leader of the XMas (all well reported by Mangold) http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima_Mas_di_Borghese

In the same period, JJ successfully recruited agents in the french, jugoslavian, italian, german, cech, intelligence.

lastampa.it

ansa.it

Claudio,

The emphasis on JJ's father, at least from my perspective, is to show that even Tom Mangold suspected him

of being a staunch Mussolini supporter in Jim's biography. Later Richard Condon in The Manchurian Candidate indirectly

reached the same conclusions. This would imply that 2 well positioned authors concluded that the Angleton's were

at least staunch Fascists and at the worst closet Waffen SS Nazis according to Condon. Do a search for Corso

in my posts to see what role might have been played by Angleton, Rocca and Corso in the Nazi Ratlines and let me

know whether or not you think Montini was deceptively victimized by Angleton, Rocca and Corso regarding their

choice of "safe passage" candidates or not. Others here think Montini was either blackmailed into complicity or

that he was just a witting and knowing participant in the Ratline conduit. I think both ideas are disinformational.

The preponderance of the literature in the US has Montini as a witting and knowing orchestrator of the Nazi Ratlines

and it is just sad to see that being played out to this date.

Regards,

John Bevilaqua

[Accogli Claudio]

Well John, I passed last night reading all these posts on Montini, Corso etc.

The link of JJ Angleton to the italian (post)fascist is well proved by the liberation of Junio Borghese by Angleton himself, an historical fact.

If the father was or was not a Waffen SS is not decisive for me: you'll find a lot of ex-fascists in the organigram of Pci, the italian communist party after the WWII, just to make an example.

So, what happened in the Mussolini era - IMO - could be a prologue, but not "the core" of something happened years later.

Other important issues to study on the Us right wing links in Italy is the work of Mrs. Luce, when she was ambassador, her job with Mr. Edgardo Sogno (another who planned coup d'etat, in 1974, when the Cia chief in Rome should have been a certain "blond ghost", Shackley). http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgardo_Sogno

Luce-Sogno-Dulles created groups of active and paramilitary anticommunism in Italy, with the help of right wing people in Vatican (this strong anticommunist line, like also a great help to nazi escapes, was the approach of Montini predecessor, Pio XII http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Pio_XII).

It is amazing that also on this point - like some other questions of the Jfk affair (but i'd say in the events of 1956/1966) - you find credible connections but incredible starrings. And Montini is everything, but not an "Angleton Mole" (just to say).

At last, the biographical books (or auto-biographical) cannot staty on the first floor of historical research, but at the third, at least.

(p.s.: sorry, I must run now, hope to have time to clarify better my post, sorry again).

[John Bevilaqua]

Well John, I passed last night reading all these posts on Montini, Corso etc.

The link of JJ Angleton to the italian (post)fascist is well proved by the liberation of Junio Borghese by Angleton himself, an historical fact.

If the father was or was not a Waffen SS is not decisive for me: you'll find a lot of ex-fascists in the organigram of Pci, the italian communist party after the WWII, just to make an example.

So, what happened in the Mussolini era - IMO - could be a prologue, but not "the core" of something happened years later.

Other important issues to study on the Us right wing links in Italy is the work of Mrs. Luce, when she was ambassador, her job with Mr. Edgardo Sogno (another who planned coup d'etat, in 1974, when the Cia chief in Rome should have been a certain "blond ghost", Shackley). http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgardo_Sogno

Luce-Sogno-Dulles created groups of active and paramilitary anticommunism in Italy, with the help of right wing people in Vatican (this strong anticommunist line, like also a great help to nazi escapes, was the approach of Montini predecessor, Pio XII http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Pio_XII).

It is amazing that also on this point - like some other questions of the Jfk affair (but i'd say in the events of 1956/1966) - you find credible connections but incredible starrings. And Montini is everything, but not an "Angleton Mole" (just to say).

At last, the biographical books (or auto-biographical) cannot staty on the first floor of historical research, but at the third, at least.

(p.s.: sorry, I must run now, hope to have time to clarify better my post, sorry again).

On the point of whether or not Pope Pius XII was complicit with the Nazis, the final word should come from the Rabbi who

even managed to change the mind of the author of "Hitler's Pope" after five years as follows:

---------------------------------------------------------------

In The Myth of Hitler's Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis published in 2005, author Rabbi David G. Dalin presents documentation culled from Church and State archives throughout Europe. Rabbi Dalin suggests that Yad Vashem should honor Pope Pius XII as a "Righteous Gentile," concluding that "[t]he anti-papal polemics of ex-seminarians like Garry Wills and John Cornwell (author of Hitler’s Pope), of ex-priests like James Carroll, and or other lapsed or angry liberal Catholics exploit the tragedy of the Jewish people during the Holocaust to foster their own political agenda of forcing changes on the Catholic Church today."

In addition, Sir Martin Gilbert praised Pope Pius XII's efforts on behalf of the Jews throughout World War II. According to Miriam Zolli, daughter of World War II Chief Rabbi of Rome, Cornwell does not consider the context of what he calls Pius XII's silence in the face of Nazism and anti-semitism. In a 1998 interview with Inside the Vatican, she stated, "Pacelli and my father were tragic figures in a world where every moral reference point had been lost. An abyss of evil had opened up, but ordinary people did not believe it and the great ones — Roosevelt, Stalin, de Gaulle — were silent. Pius XII had understood that Hitler would not descend to pacts with anyone, that his madness was of the type that could explode in any direction, in the massacre of German Catholics or in the bombing of Rome, and he acted in the light of this knowledge. The Pope was like a person constrained to move in solitude among the lunatics of an insane asylum. He did what he could. His silence must be read in that context, as an act of prudence, not of cowardice."[7]

Change in Cornwell's views

Five years after the publication of Hitler's Pope, Cornwell (the author) had somewhat modified his views: "I would now argue, in the light of the debates and evidence following Hitler's Pope, that Pius XII had so little scope of action that it is impossible to judge the motives for his silence during the war, while Rome was under the heel of Mussolini and later occupied by the Germany."[8]

--------------------------------------------------------

I would also argue that History will eventually judge much more kindly the position in which Giovanni Battista Montini was placed

during the middle of World War II. He had NO IDEA that Angleton, Corso and Dulles would eventually be outed as pro-Fascists or

as outright pro-Nazis. He probably had no insight into the true nature of Hugh Angleton's NCR relationship with Mussolini. He had no

way of knowing that their elaborate subterfuge had the intention of guaranteeing safe passage through the Vatican of multiple Nazi War Criminals. He watched them being loaded into US Jeeps with the MP logos and MP armbands distinctively displayed and felt that he was doing the right thing. After all, both his parish priests and his Bishops had also identified most or all of these individuals handed over to Lt. Col. Philip J. Corso as dangerous War Criminals or participants in The Holocaust. He felt that he was acting justifiably and morally in helping put these people into the custody of Corso, Angleton and Dulles as well. Imagine thinking that History would judge you a Hero for what

you did, only to find out that you had been made into a Goat by the CIA's deceptions. And if Claire Booth Luce was Ambassador at the time, or whoever was Ambassador at that time concurred, he could only feel that much better about his decisions.

Edited October 22, 2007 by John Bevilaqua

[John Bevilaqua]

Political career

Clare Boothe Luce, ambassador to Italy, with husband Henry Luce (1954)In 1942, Luce won a Republican seat in the United States House of Representatives representing Fairfield County, Connecticut, the 4th Congressional District. She filled the seat formerly held by her late step-father, Dr. Austin. An outspoken critic of the Democratic President's foreign policy, Luce won the respect of the ultraconservative isolationists in Congress and received an appointment to the Military Affairs Committee.

However, her voting record was generally more moderate, siding with the administration on issues such as funding for American troops and aid to war victims. Luce won reelection to a second term in the House in 1944 and was instrumental in the creation of the Atomic Energy Commission and began warning against the growing threat of international Communism.

Luce returned to politics during the 1952 presidential election, when she campaigned on behalf of Republican candidate Dwight Eisenhower. Luce's support was rewarded with an appointment as ambassador to Italy, confirmed by the Senate in March 1953. As ambassador, Luce addressed the issue of anticommunism and the Italian labor movement and helped to settle the dispute between Italy and what was then Yugoslavia over the United Nations territorial lines in Trieste. Not long afterward, Luce fell seriously ill with arsenic poisoning caused by paint chips falling from the stucco that decorated her bedroom ceiling, and was forced to resign in 1956.

Luce maintained her association with the conservative wing of the Republican party. She was well known for her anti-Communist views, as well as her advocacy of fiscal conservatism. In 1964, she supported Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona, the Republican candidate for president, and considered a candidacy for the United States Senate from New York on the Conservative party ticket. However, also in 1964, "Harry" Luce retired as editor-in-chief of Time magazine, and Luce joined him by also retiring from public life. In 1979, she was the first female to be awarded the Sylvanus Thayer Award by the United States Military Academy at West Point.

In 1981, newly inaugurated President Ronald Reagan appointed Luce to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. She served on the board until 1983, the year President Reagan awarded her the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Legacy

In the arena of politics Luce's name lives on in the form of the Clare Boothe Luce Policy Institute, a non-profit think tank that seeks to advance American women through conservative ideas, and espouses much the same philosophy as the late Clare Boothe Luce, both in terms of foreign policy and domestic policy.

[William Kelly]

Angleton was right!

James Jesus Angleton's concern that the Soviets had "moles" in high stations in the U.S. intelligence community was probably correct even if he was unsuccessful in locating them. The "reforms" of the Church Committee and the CIA intself following the revlations of the CIA abuses decimated Angleton's counter-intelligence operation with tragic results. Several CIA "assets" lost their lives as a result of the betrayals of Aldrich Ames. a.j. weberman states on his web-site that had the Angleton operation been in operation, Ames would have been discovered before he had wreaked all of his damage.

And consider this example. Willliam Charles Godell was a member of one of the Pentagon's most secret offices, the Advanced Research Projects Agency. President Johnson nominated him to be the director of the National Security Agency. As director, Godell would have had extraordinary access to U.S. intelligence information. But it was discovered that Godell was probably a Soviet mole. The US was unable to indict Godell for espionage because the man to whom he was handing documents was either murdered or commited suicide. To prevent Godell from ever again holding a government job, he was instead indicted and convicted for misspending appropriated government funds.

Tim,

...snipped...

As Surveyor of the Queens Pictures, Blunt was one of the foremost authorities on art in the world, yet it was arranged for him to give a series of lectures and attend a stay in residence at the relatively small and unhearald art department of Penn State, better known for its football team.

At the time Blunt visited, in 1963, one of art students registered at the school, Julio Fernandez, Jr., was the son of the publisher of a Cuban newspaper in exile in the USA, who was investigated in the assassination of the President Kennedy.

Could this Julio Fernandez, Jr. be one and the same "Julio Fernandez" who was a commando team leader at JMWAVE, supported and written about by Clare Booth Luce, wife of Life Magazine publisher Henry Luce?

...snipped...

Certainly James Jesus Angleton should have been on top of not only the TOP KGB MI5 Doubleagent visiting USA, but also his possible association with the Cuban commandos?

BK

Bill,

Wasn't there a bit more to this story if my memory serves me correctly? Something about the next tenant at the Julio

Fernandez residence in PA finding some leftover travel itineraries and or ticket stubs showing suspicious movements to Miami just

before the mid-November trip there by JFK? And perhaps some anti-JFK or anti-Castro literature, too? It is a bit fuzzy in my mind but then again so is almost everything at this point.

John B

Yes, John, there were written material being burned in an outdoor fire by Julio Fernandez, Sr., the Cuban publisher, which reportedly had tied Oswald and Ruby, and a train ticket from Philly to Miami, said to be used by Juilo, Jr., the Penn State Art student who attended a six week long conference of Cuban journalists at the University of Miami (aka JMWAVE) in the summer of 1963, which was co-sponsored by the Cuban Aid Relief (CAR) of Philadelphia and the Pan Am Society (Carmelita Manning).

It would be interesting to learn who else attended this "conference" for Cuban journalists that lasted six weeks. Who holds a six week long conference?

BK