Harry Dean: Memoirs

[Paul Trejo]

OK, I finally figured out how to add photo images of Loran Hall to his 1963 speech for the John Birch Society.

I uploaded the speech to YouTube. It is entitled, CUBA BETRAYED, and it is in two parts, as follows:

LORAN HALL PART ONE:

LORAN HALL PART TWO:

Thanks to Harry Dean for contributing this artifact from his collection.

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo Edited May 27, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

This week I added photo images of Southern California Congressman of the 25th District, John Rousselot, onto another 1963 speech for the John Birch Society.

I uploaded the speech to YouTube. It is entitled, THE THIRD COLOR -- RED, and it is in two parts, as follows:

JOHN ROUSSELOT PART ONE:

JOHN ROUSSELOT PART TWO:

In this speech Congressman Rousselot (who was also an officer for the John BIrch Society) argues for the racial segregation of US public schools.

Like all Birchers, Rousselot joined the call to Impeach Earl Warren, because of this Supreme Court Justice's ruling on Brown v. the Board of Education, which mandated the racial integration of US public schools.

Like all Birchers, Rousselot claimed that the NAACP and the US Civil Rights movement was a Communist plot operated from Moscow, USSR. This was the Congressman's motivation for opposing President Kennedy with every ounce of energy he could muster.

Thanks again to Harry Dean for contributing this artifact from his collection.

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited May 27, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Thanks for the great links and all the research you are doing Paul.

I have to take you to task for the way you rationalize the FBI's failures. If Harry Dean is telling the truth, as you seem to believe, then you cannot make excuses for J Edgar Hoover by saying that the FBI was overloaded and simply missed the one conspiracy that actually killed our president. Hoover clearly targeted MLK, clearly hated JFK and his brother, and was clearly not an American hero. If Dean was reporting to the FBI there can only be one logical conclusion.

[Paul Trejo]

Thanks for the great links and all the research you are doing Paul.

I have to take you to task for the way you rationalize the FBI's failures. If Harry Dean is telling the truth, as you seem to believe, then you cannot make excuses for J Edgar Hoover by saying that the FBI was overloaded and simply missed the one conspiracy that actually killed our president. Hoover clearly targeted MLK, clearly hated JFK and his brother, and was clearly not an American hero. If Dean was reporting to the FBI there can only be one logical conclusion.

Well, Paul B., there is a truly important dimension in what you say and imply here.

I don't pretend to know the answers -- but I do believe we have only two broad choices if we are to encompass all the available evidence; either: (1) Hoover was blind-sighted by the JFK assassination and acted quickly to avoid a Civil War in the USA; or (2) Hoover was inside the plot with former FBI agent and segregationist, Guy Banister, and resigned General and segregationist Edwin Walker.

The only way to dispute the evidence that readers put forward for choice #2 is to actively pursue choice #1. I also admit that if choice #1 cracks in any serious way, then we are immediately forced to choice #2.

So, for purposes of conservatism, and to give J. Edgar Hoover the benefit of the doubt, I will argue for choice #1 until I am forced by material evidence to back down. I will emphasize here that I am willing to back down if the evidence is adequate.

However, so far I can still argue for choice #1, even with my strong advocacy for the sincere claims of Harry Dean, whom I am pleased to consider my friend and ally.

Here's my current argument: Yes, Harry Dean did tell the FBI in early September 1963 about a JFK assassination plot that invovled ex-General Walker, Congressman John Rousselot, mercenary Loran (Lorenzo) Hall, war-hero Guy 'Gabby' Gabaldon, mercenary Larry (Alonzo) Howard along with Harry Dean himself, JBS organizer and radical Minuteman.

Harry Dean also says that after he made this announcement to the FBI, the immediate response of the SAC (Special Agent in Charge) was, "this is wishful thinking, Harry. We hear it all the time. Just forget about it."

Now, this response from the SAC was given to Harry before the SAC sent this report to FBI headquarters and J. Edgar Hoover. Because of FBI protocol, we can be almost certain that the SAC did indeed send Harry's report to FBI headquarters.

Yet we should also expect that the SAC added his personal notes to the FBI report -- and they probably included the exact words that the SAC told Harry in person: "this is wishful thinking."

Thus, it is also plausible that when J. Edgar Hoover saw Harry Dean's report, he put it into a large stack of threats to JFK, including stacks involving Joseph Milteer, Santos Trafficante, Carlos Marcello, Frank Sturgis, Sam Giancana, Johnny Rosselli, Charles Nicoletti, the Mississippi KKK, the Lousiana KKK, the Alabama KKK, the South Carolina KKK, the DRE, Alpha 66, INCA etc. etc.

It is a well-known, documented fact that Carlos Marcello put out a large contract on JFK in 1963, and this fact got back to the FBI, and the FBI evidently did not follow-up on that FBI report. This caused the famous JFK researcher, Sylvia Meagher, to exclaim that J. Edgar Hoover was at minimum "an Accessory after the Fact."

Yet, to be as generous as possible to an old and tired J. Edgar Hoover, who had lived through both World War I and World War II, and was approaching 70 years of age -- it is possible that: (i) there were too many threats about JFK to stay on top of all of them; and (ii) the report by Harry Dean just didn't seem to J. Edgar Hoover to be realistic enough.

Like the SAC, Hoover possibly believed that Harry's report merely reflected some more "wishful thinking" on the part of JFK's many, many enemies among the far right in the USA.

I take this argument partly from Harry himself. Harry's manuscript, Crosstrails (1990) did not dare to discuss Harry's membership in the Minutemen, however, Harry Dean today is willing to talk about it. Harry's membership in the Minutemen was perhaps the main reason that he was trusted enough by Walker, Gabaldon and Hall to attend this secret meeting about Lee Harvey Oswald.

Now, what Harry says about the Minutemen today, is that they spoke about killing JFK at all times of day and night. It was the main topic of conversation at their paramilitary training camps.

Harry further adds that the ideological foundation for the Minutemen was the John Birch Society. Robert Welch preached through his JBS Members Bulletin that JFK (like Eisenhower, Truman and FDR before him) was a Communist traitor to the USA.

That was their belief. They repeated it like a mantra. Because of their deep commitment to Anticommunism, and because of their sincere belief that Robert Welch was telling the truth, the Minutemen (who were in perpetual training to resist a Communist invasion of the USA) were convinced that JFK was a traitor, and therefore had to die.

In other words, all over the USA, in every State in the Union, there were Minutemen groups reporting to the radical rightist, Robert De Pugh, who confirmed to each other every single day that JFK was a traitor to the USA and therefore had to die ASAP. Thousands of people all across the USA were saying this every single day!

The FBI wanted to track the Minutemen. That is precisely why they asked Harry to give them information about Minutemen activities. The FBI had already studied the John Birch Society, and decided that they were self-serving and non-patriotic (because they called US Presidents "Communists"). The FBI had rules that no FBI agent could be a member of the John BIrch Society, the KKK or the Minutemen.

And there, Paul B., is my core reason for defending J. Edgar Hoover in the case of Lee Harvey Oswald and JFK. If J. Edgar Hoover had been in open sympathy with the KKK or the John BIrch Society (or the Minutemen) then FBI agents would have been permitted to be members of these organizations -- but they weren't.

So, giving Hoover the benefit of the doubt, I will argue (until proven wrong) that Hoover was simply overwhelmed by the thousands of reports about JFK haters from all over the USA, and could not be sure which one of these was going to be successful. He didn't have the resources to track every one.

So -- actually -- since there were thousands upon thousands of plots to kill JFK current as of November 1963, how can we ourselves be certain that the one reported by Harry Dean was really the successful one?

We can be sure, affirms Harry Dean, because the JFK plot by Walker, Rousselot, Gabaldon, Hall, Howard and Dean was the only one that specifically named Lee Harvey Oswald as the patsy. That's how we know.

So; to pin blame on J. Edgar Hoover for the JFK murder plot, we must necessarily link Hoover with Oswald in 1963. We can link Guy Banister with Oswald in 1963. We can link Edwin Walker with Oswald in 1963. We have the material evidence.

But linking Oswald directly with J. Edgar Hoover in 1963 is a question that still requires material evidence.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited May 30, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Completely aside from the question of J. Edgar Hoover, is the curious case of Guy Gabaldon, the famed Pied Piper of Saipan.

According to Harry Dean, Guy Gabaldon was a central figure in the assassination of JFK.

It is difficult for Americans to consider war heroes like General Edwin Walker and Guy Gabaldon to be traitors of the USA and involved in a plot to assassinate the US President.

Moreover, it has become easier to regard General Edwin Walker as a turn-coat after a careful examination of his case -- i.e. he was the only US General to resign in the 20th century -- he was truly an odd bird. (Resignation is not retirement -- it is an act of defiance, and when one resigns from the US Army, one gives up one's pension. It is the fool-hardy act of a bitter man -- or it is a political act.) Walker did not resign from the Army once -- he resigned twice; once in late 1959 and once in late 1961. The difference is that the Eisenhower administration refused to honor Walker's first resignation; and JFK chose to honor his second.

This harsh verdict on Edwin Walker was born out in late 1962 when ex-General Walker led a race riot at Ole Miss University in which hundreds were wounded and two were killed. It was an open defiance against JFK and his politics of supporting Martin Luther King, the NAACP and the Civil Rights movement. In revenge, JFK and RFK committed Walker to an insane asylum for six days. Walker lost the battle for Ole Miss, and he was humiliated nationally. He swore revenge.

Yet matters are very different when we look upon PFC Guy Gabaldon, who, at 18 years of age, earned the Navy Cross Medal for single-handedly capturing 1,500 Japanese soldiers in Saipan during World War Two.

Guy Gabaldon was a Mexican-American from Los Angeles who came from a broken home and was raised by kind Japanese neighbors; from whom he learned to speak Japanese and to respect other cultures. It was Gabaldon's respect and persuasive personality than enabled him to capture (or persuade to surrender) 1,500 Japanese soldiers at Saipan.

The moving story of Guy Gabaldon's heroic achievement can be seen today in a old B&W movie, From Hell to Eternity (1960) starring Jeffery Hunter, David Janssen and Vic Damon.

Nor did Guy "Gabby" Gabaldon resign his post in protest of the US government. He was honorably discharged, and went about his civilian life normally. At one point he thought of running for public office -- Congressman from Southern California -- but he lost that bid of office, partly, perhaps, because of Loran Hall. (But that's another story.)

The fall from grace suffered by Gabby, however, was exactly the same fall from grace suffered by Edwin Walker, namely, he fell victim to the pernicious infection of the John Birch Society doctrine that every US President since FDR was a Communist traitor.

Gabby truly believed this -- and he was a war hero -- so he was willing to put his life on the line to save his country. Guy Gabaldon became convinced -- as every member of the Birchers (and of the WCC) and every Minuteman was convinced, that JFK was a Communist.

Robert Welch was quite willing to exploit military men in this way.

Edwin Walker, for example, was no great intellect. He finished in the bottom 10% of his West Point class. He was great with ballistics and special operations -- but when it came to intellectual achievement, the writings of Robert Welch formed the highest summit that Edwin Walker's intellect would ever hope to attain.

Sadly, the same fate befell the great war hero, Guy Gabaldon. Late in life, Gabby eventually published his own book, America Betrayed (1990) which explained his political views and opinions. These are personal memoirs that include some mean-spirited attacks on JFK and RFK, and show clearly that Gabaldon believed them to be supporting the Communists, because of their refusal to engage in open war to take back Cuba. (Those who wonder why Gabaldon was overlooked for the Congressional Medal of Honor need look no further than this book.)

According to Harry Dean, it was not only Edwin Walker, it was also Guy Gabaldon who were the military leaders of the Dallas arm of the plot to assassinate JFK. Loran (Lorenzo) Hall and Larry (Alonzo) Howard, two more Chicanos from East L.A., were major fans of Gabby Gabaldon. Whatever he wanted done, they would do.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited December 23, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Brancato]

Paul T - if I was the FBI chief and found my desk swamped with death threats against the President I would at least keep the Attorney General informed, if not POTUS himself. Did Hoover keep JFK or RFK in the loop?

We can at least agree the Hoover was looking at many death threat reports. Is there good evidence that he was taking steps to uncover and prevent any of these plots?

There could be other explanations for Hoover's apparent inaction before the assassination than the two you enumerated. He could have been monitoring various plots and hoping, if he simply did nothing, that one of them might succeed. He could have been in cahoots with LBJ rather than Bannister. Do we agree that Hoover hated the Kennedys?

[Paul Trejo]

Paul T - if I was the FBI chief and found my desk swamped with death threats against the President I would at least keep the Attorney General informed, if not POTUS himself. Did Hoover keep JFK or RFK in the loop?

We can at least agree the Hoover was looking at many death threat reports. Is there good evidence that he was taking steps to uncover and prevent any of these plots?

There could be other explanations for Hoover's apparent inaction before the assassination than the two you enumerated. He could have been monitoring various plots and hoping, if he simply did nothing, that one of them might succeed. He could have been in cahoots with LBJ rather than Bannister. Do we agree that Hoover hated the Kennedys?

Well, Paul B., I admit that your questions are well-considered and potent. I also agree that there are several possible explanations for Hoover's failure to identify the killers of JFK before the assassination.

I have said before that the CIA didn't have to plot to kill JFK, all they had to do was look the other way and let other people do it, because there was a long line of people standing in a queue for a shot at JFK. Cuban Exiles probably led the pack -- and I suspect that no theory of the ground-crew (not even the Edwin Walker theory) can be complete without a few Cuban Exiles in the mix.

The same might be said of the FBI. All they had to do was look away for a few days, and the situation would quickly worsen for JFK. And the FBI only did what J. Edgar Hoover did -- so we can extend the analogy to Hoover.

Thus, Hoover's inaction is immediately suspicious -- as Sylvia Meagher rightly noted 48 years ago. She considered Hoover to be, if nothing else, an Accessory After the Fact. This folds in well with the notion of Hoover just waiting and hoping that somebody would kill JFK.

You ask, Paul B., if we agree that Hoover hated JFK and RFK. Most accounts I have read are clear that he hated them, and they did not respect Hoover much in return.

I find Gerry Patrick Hemming to be a tricky witness -- but sometimes he dropped some gems that cannot be discounted. There is a well-known story -- even told by Clint Eastwood's production of the life of J. Edgar Hoover (starring Leonardo DiCaprio) -- that J. Edgar Hoover spied on JFK and RFK, and allowed the FBI to photograph JFK having sex with Marilyn Monroe (and evidently there were photographs of RFK also having sex with her).

In Gerry Patrick Hemming's version of that story, RFK hired a trusted government agent to find equal dirt on Hoover. That agent quickly called Hemming and Hemming took the job. Hemming received a lot of money for this work, and was told to work as fast as possible. He promptly bought a large shipment of marijuana to use to bribe people in the underworld. He told them what he was after, and in only a matter of days, several photographs appeared showing J. Edgar Hoover in homosexual activity. RFK dropped these photographs on Hoover's desk, and Hoover quickly turned over his compromising photographs of JFK (and RFK) and they were "even".

Except -- says Gerry Patrick Hemming -- J. Edgar Hoover swore revenge; not only on the Kennedys, but also on Gerry Patrick Hemming and his team of mercenaries, Interpen. Gerry Patrick Hemming claimed that Hoover set up Interpen as a collective patsy in a foiled JFK assassination attempt. Here's the scenario (as I recall): It was at the Miami airport, and Hoover gave somebody a lot of money to give to Hemming so that Hemming and Interpen would be at the Miami airport, fully armed, when JFK flew in.

Then, the FBI was on hand at the airport to surprise Interpen, and arrest them on charges of attempting to assassinate JFK. This would have been Hoover's revenge on Gerry Patry Hemming. However, says Hemming, he was one step ahead of Hoover, and knew what Hoover was thinking. So Hemming took the money, and ordered Interpen to go to Miami airport unarmed. They were indeed surprised by the FBI, but since they had no weapons, no arrests or charges could be made.

So -- that's one side of the story. Many JFK researchers are keen to note that Hoover was nearly 70, and that was the mandatory retirement age for government officials, unless the Administration decreed otherwise. The Kennedys were very clear that they thought Hoover was old-fashioned, and that his persecution of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. was a travesty of justice. They would not have prevented Hoover's standard retirement.

Now, some JFK researchers noticed that LBJ later made J. Edgar Hoover the FBI DIrector for life. Based on this fact, they suggest that LBJ was rewarding Hoover for his role in killing JFK. I think that is a hasty conclusion. It is just as plausible that LBJ was rewarding Hoover for his role in preventing a US Civil War.

But back to the idea of Hoover "fiddling while Rome burned," in other words, of doing nothing while JFK murder plots were abounding throughout the USA. Your best point in all of your good points, Paul B., is your question about whether Hoover kept RFK in the loop with all his investigations.

It's a great question, and deserves a lot of attention -- more than I can offer in a single post. I will make some high-level observations, though.

(1) It was equally the responsibility of RFK to stay on top of the FBI Director, and demand reports on a regular basis.

(2) It was also the duty of RFK to hire spies to infiltrate the FBI to obtain reports that the FBI Director might be hiding.

(3) Knowing that RFK was a smart politician, and knowing about the friction between RFK and Hoover, it would be amazing to me if RFK was naive enough to allow the FBI Director to hide reports.

It seems plausible to me that all of the information that Hoover had, RFK also had, one way or another. The trouble is that there were too many (hundreds, or perhaps thousands) of FBI reports of possible or potential assassination attempts against JFK.

The problem for anybody would be -- where do we begin? How do we evaluate these? How do we prioritize these?

There is also the question about RFK himself -- that he was himself the head of Operation Mongoose, and that Operation Mongoose was controlled in New Orleans by Guy Banister. There are reports that RFK himself called Guy Banister's offices nearly every day, demanding updates for Operation Mongoose. There is also speculation that RFK was himself aware of the participation of Lee Harvey Oswald with Guy Banister in New Orleans.

In other words, there is a possibility that RFK knew more about the dangers to JFK than Hoover himself did.

In my theory -- based on eye-witness reports from selected writers -- the killing of JFK was done with a two-team strategy -- a New Orleans team and a Dallas team. Lee Harvey Oswald was the common link to both teams.

In my theory, J. Edgar Hoover did not have resigned General Walker on his top suspect list. Neither did RFK, I'm afraid. The stature of Edwin Walker as a heroic General of World War Two cast a blinding shadow over their suspicions. Even with Harry Dean's detailed reports -- the scenario sounded like "wishful thinking" to most people in 1963.

In my humble opinion, the resigned Major General Edwin A. Walker, and Guy Gabaldon, the Pied Piper of Saipan, caught both Hoover and RFK off-guard. Nobody in the US government expected that they, of all people, would draft Interpen, a few Cuban Exiles and assorted Southern MInutemen to commit the crime of the 20th century.

Of course, I could be mistaken.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited May 31, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Evan Marshall]

This all a bunch of trype-there is no official connection between my church and the JBS. Salt Lake put out a letter forbiding ANY political mtgs in Church bldgs long ago.

I've served on Executvie Councils over the last 30yrs and have never heard JBS even mentioned. I don't know if Harry got excommunicated or what, but his bitterness towards the LDS shines through.

[Paul Trejo]

This all a bunch of trype-there is no official connection between my church and the JBS. Salt Lake put out a letter forbiding ANY political mtgs in Church bldgs long ago.

I've served on Executvie Councils over the last 30yrs and have never heard JBS even mentioned. I don't know if Harry got excommunicated or what, but his bitterness towards the LDS shines through.

Evan, I myself don't emphasize all aspects of Harry Dean's memoirs. I emphasize only what he saw with his own eyes, i.e. that he witnessed General Walker, Congressman Rousselot, Guy Gabaldon, Loran Hall, Larry Howard and himself in a meeting, making a pact to make Lee Harvey Oswald into the patsy for a plot involving select John Birch Society leaders and Minutemen.

That, to me, is a handful to work with.

As for Harry's animus regarding the LDS, I personally avoid it because of a lack of evidence. It is well known that in 1963, the thirteenth President of the LDS was Ezra Taft Benson, and it is also accepted that Mr. Benson was a member -- and an ouspoken public supporter -- of the John Birch Society in 1963.

Now, one might try to generalize based on those facts, but I won't generalize. Harry Dean doesn't claim that Ezra Taft Benson was present at that historical meeting which he describes in detail. It is probable, then, that Mr. Dean merely speculates that Mr. Benson participated -- and I won't work with mere speculation. So, I omit this clause from my appreciation of Harry Dean's valuable witness.

I do regard the John Birch Society (JBS) to be un-American, although I admit that Robert Welch was crafty in his efforts to make the JBS appear to be super-American. It seems to me that both Harry Dean and Ezra Taft Benson were misguided into believing that the JBS members were super-patriots, rather than unpatriotic.

For example, many JBS members had no idea that their famous slogan, "Impeach Earl Warren," had racist roots, shared with the White Citizens' Council in the South, which demanded a reversal of Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren's Brown decision to racially integrate US public schools.

Harry Dean told me personally that this never dawned on him. Robert Welch had declared that the JBS was not racist, and that was taken as read. Harry Dean himself is not a racist and never was one. Nevertheless, the JBS demanded the repeal of the Brown decision longer than any other group in the USA (except for the KKK).

Further, I believe Harry Dean failed to take into account that the leadership of the LDS was actually critical of Ezra Taft Benson's membership in the JBS. Furthermore, later Presidents of the LDS refused membership in the John Birch Society. That, to me, is strong evidence.

Harry Dean -- whose eye-witness account is supremely valuable -- was not really an eye-witness to any participation of LDS leadership in the JFK assassination. So I personally discount that part of his account.

Harry does say that he knew a number of LDS members in both the JBS and the Minutemen; however, that proves nothing about any leadership role. Also, I gather that plenty of LDS members opposed the policies of the JFK administration -- yet that also proves nothing about any leadership role in the JBS.

I repeat -- the clause in which Harry Dean tries to blame the LDS for the sins of the JBS is not only removable, it is unimportant to Harry Dean's contribution to JFK research. I have advised Harry to remove that clause in future versions of CrossTrails, and he told me that he would seriously consider my request.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited December 23, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

PT: Except -- says Gerry Patrick Hemming -- J. Edgar Hoover swore revenge; not only on the Kennedys, but also on Gerry Patrick Hemming and his team of mercenaries, Interpen. Gerry Patrick Hemming claimed that Hoover set up Interpen as a collective patsy in a foiled JFK assassination attempt. Here's the scenario (as I recall): It was at the Miami airport, and Hoover gave somebody a lot of money to give to Hemming so that Hemming and Interpen would be at the Miami airport, fully armed, when JFK flew in.

Paul, as I mentioned elsewhere, I would not trust Hemming to park my car. Let alone to provide me with info on the JFK case.

I am a great admirer of John Newman's work e.g. Oswald and the CIA. It is a very important book that does not get the attention it merits. But even there, I did not like John using Hemming as a source. But he used him sparsely and in a very limited way, and eventually told me he didn't like the guy and ended up not returning his calls at the end.

Now, what is your corroborative evidence for this quote I pulled from you above? You know, Hoover killing JFK in Miami?

Jim, it wasn't that Hoover tried to kill JFK in Miami -- Hemming said that Hoover tried to frame Interpen for killing JFK in Miami.

There was no assassination plot in Miami -- it was a sting operation. Nor was Interpen told that they were there to kill JFK, as I recall, rather, they were told they were being hired for backup Protection. It was a trick. But Hemming claimed that he saw through the trick.

Hemming said this, as I recall, on this very Forum back in 2005 when he was a member of the Forum. It was one of his first stories here, I believe.

Also -- I agree with you that Hemming must be taken sparingly, like John Newman took him. He was rarely under oath when he spoke, and he took advantage of that fact, evidently. Still, Hemming was able to connect dots that few others could connect. Gems can be found among the dirty rocks.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 1, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

Uh Paul, reading through what you wrote above, no matter how you frame it, it still says that Hoover was trying to kill JFK in Miami.

Now, do you buy that? And if so, what corroboration do you have besides Hemming.

Dear Jimbo,

Allow me to translate it for you in a way that you can understand. Paul claims that 1) there was no assassination plot in Miami, and 2) that Hoover wanted Interpen to think that they were going to be used as backup protection for JFK in Miami. Why? Because Hoover wanted Hemming and his buddies to be armed and in close proximity to JFK in Miami so they could be arrested for appearing to be intending to hit him! According to Paul, Hemming figured out Hoover's ruse in advance and told his men to show up unarmed.

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Edited June 2, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Trejo]

Uh Paul, reading through what you wrote above, no matter how you frame it, it still says that Hoover was trying to kill JFK in Miami.

Now, do you buy that? And if so, what corroboration do you have besides Hemming.

Dear Jimbo,

Allow me to translate it for you in a way that you can understand. Paul claims that 1) there was no assassination plot in Miami, and 2) that Hoover wanted Interpen to think that they were going to be used as backup protection for JFK in Miami. Why? Because Hoover wanted Hemming and his buddies to be armed and in close proximity to JFK Miami o they could be arrested for appearing to be intending to hit him! According to Paul, Hemming figured out Hoover's ruse in advance and told his men to show up unarmed.

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Right, Tommy. You said it more plainly than I.

My point wasn't simply whether Hemming was lying or not, but that J. Edgar Hoover has this sort of reputation among JFK researchers. Hemming regularly called J. Edgar Hoover, "Dame Hoover," on this Forum, and got away with it.

The homosexuality issue with regard to J. Edgar Hoover is still a touchy subject, however. Clint Eastwood's recent movie, J. Edgar (2011) refused to deal with it bluntly, and basically denied it.

If there are still fans of resigned General Edwin Walker out there, they surely don't like hearing reports that he was homosexual. Yet even on this Forum, there is a male member who met Edwin Walker personally, and he admits that Walker made a pass at him.

The problem with Walker -- far more than with J. Edgar Hoover -- is that it was a court-martial offense to be homosexual in the US Army from 1930 - 1961, when Walker served.

J. Edgar Hoover didn't have that problem, exactly. There were no laws against the FBI Director being homosexual -- although it would have been a public scandal in 1963 that would have ended his career, no doubt, just because of the public outcry.

But there were actual laws governing sexual orientation inside the US Army, so it was more serious with Walker. For example, it suggests that Walker (if he was homosexual all his life, as Jim Root suggests) was living a double life inside the US Army for over 30 years.

This is important psychological information vis-a-vis JFK research, in my opinion, because it suggests that Edwin Walker really and truly resigned his US Army commission (and gave up his pension as the only US General in the 20th century to do such a thing) because he was tortured psychologically.

It's hard to imagine that any West Point graduate would fall for the unpatriotic lies of the John Birch Society which claimed that FDR, Truman, Eisenhower and JFK had all been Communist traitors. So, I'm searching for psychological explanations.

In my current hypothesis, hiding his homosexuality was becoming harder and harder for Edwin Walker (despite decades of practice) the more he was promoted and visible to the public. The strain was too great. He had to hide his homosexuality with all his strength. But he couldn't even speak about it (the times were so different then).

So, Walker's mind was probably distracted by this psychological torture, and he turned toward a scapegoat ideology -- he was being persecuted, he continually said, even before a Senate Subcommittee -- by the Communists in Washington DC. He was always on the defensive -- but this was because of Communists, he claimed, and not because he was hiding his homosexuality from a court-martial.

Insofar as J. Edgar Hoover was also a homosexual, he also "had to hide his love away" so to speak, back in 1963, and goodness knows what scapegoats he ruined because of his own internal battles. Yet Edwin Walker eventually made the Kennedys into his personal scapegoats -- first at Ole Miss in 1962 -- and then in Dallas in 1963. That's how it appears to me.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 1, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Ian Kingsbury]

Perhaps this needs updating at Wiki

By resigning instead of retiring, Walker was unable to draw a pension from the Army. He made statements at the time to the Dallas Morning News that he had "refused" to take his pension. However, he had made several previous requests for his pension dating back to 1973. The Army restored his pension rights in 1982.[36]

Walker, then 66, was arrested on June 23, 1976 for public lewdness in a restroom at a Dallas park and accused of fondling an undercover policeman.[37][38][39] He was arrested again in Dallas for public lewdness on March 16, 1977.[40][41] He pled no contest to one of the two misdemeanor charges, was given a suspended, 30-day jail sentence, and fined $1,000.[42]

Just a thought but when was the last time a gay man come out on top or actually won!.

Walker

Ruby

Shaw

Oswald?

And I am sure there are others who were used because of their homosexuality.

What power could they gain for it to be removed with one sentence.

I propose that these people were informed of enough to know what was going

To happen in Dallas.

Why would Walker need Rousselot Or Hall or Howard ?.

We're the minutemen on wages?.

If we are meant to believe history was changed by a lone nut with a $20 rifle

Then Walker had the same opportunity as Oswald only better shots and organisation.

If Walker was a self obsessed nut why not pull the trigger himself?

Edited June 2, 2013 by Ian Kingsbury

[Paul Trejo]

...Just a thought but when was the last time a gay man come out on top or actually won!.

Walker

Ruby

Shaw

Oswald?

And I am sure there are others who were used because of their homosexuality.

What power could they gain for it to be removed with one sentence.

I propose that these people were informed of enough to know what was going

To happen in Dallas.

Why would Walker need Rousselot Or Hall or Howard ?.

We're the minutemen on wages?.

If we are meant to believe history was changed by a lone nut with a $20 rifle

Then Walker had the same opportunity as Oswald only better shots and organisation.

If Walker was a self obsessed nut why not pull the trigger himself?

That's a lot of strong points to be made all at once, Ian. As for the line-up of Walker, Ruby, Shaw (and perhaps Oswald) we should add several others, including David Ferrie, Eladio Del Valle, Dean Andrews, Ewan McDuff, Warren Reynolds and several witnesses called by Jim Garrison, including Perry Russo.

Jim Garrison allegedly said that homosexuals were an excellent source of underground information about criminal activity, and he would often use homosexual informers in the underworld to investigate New Orleans crimes.

I think this should be a major factor in the research of ex-General Edwin Walker -- not that he was a homosexual, but that he was a homosexual-in-the-closet, which is a very different condition -- arguably the very opposite condition.

However, I should point out here that Harry Dean makes absolutely zero reference to the homosexuality of the resigned General Edwin Walker. Harry was unaware of it, and it wasn't even on radar; Harry was more closely following the activities of his close and personal friend in Southern Los Angeles, namely, PFC and earner of the Navy Cross Medal, Guy Gabaldon.

The assassination of JFK was a serious political and military project for Harry -- and had nothing to do with individual preferences.

Therefore, Ian, I propose to move the discussion of Edwin Walker's homosexuality to the Edwin Walker thread started by Jim Root. I will extend this discussion on that thread today.

For purposes of Harry Dean's thread, however, I think your final three questions are important and even urgent.

First, "why would Walker need Rousselot or Hall or Howard?"

Harry Dean is fairly clear on this topic. Walker was not the ultimate leader of the plot to kill JFK -- he was only the leader of the ground-crew, as far as Harry Dean could see. From Harry Dean's perspective, the John Birch Society was the ultimate leader of the plot to kill JFK.

By the way, that is exactly what Jack Ruby told Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren, personally, on 7 June 1964.

The order came directly from Robert Welch and his top advisors through a secret branch of the John Birch Society named, "RID," which stood for Research Information Development, as I recall. Walker, Rousselot and Gabaldon were among the many recipients of the "RID" bulletins.

One of the those RID bulletins in late August, 1963, included a special focus on Lee Harvey Oswald, a bold officer of the FPCC making noises in New Orleans. Walker seems to have had the idea before anybody else -- let's make Lee Harvey Oswald the patsy of our plot, because he's just tailor made to be a patsy, and he's just begging for it.

Walker told his plan to various John Birch Society members, and John Rousselot said he could come up with some secret money for such a plot tomorrow. Guy Gabaldon said he would support such a plot with all his strength.

Guy Gabaldon, a famous World War Two hero, was known by the insiders in the John Birch Society as a man who had already prepared a plot to kill JFK in Mexico City in 1962, but that plot had to be aborted because of Secret Service related difficulties.

Guy Gabaldon, a Chicano from East L.A., had two big fans, much younger than himself, who were also Chicanos from East L.A., who were also honorably discharged military men, and who would do anything Guy Gabaldon asked. Anything. Those two men were Loran (Lorenzo) Hall and Larry (Alonzo) Howard.

Harry Dean also says in his memoirs (Crosstrails) that he personally witnessed Congressman John Rousselot handing Guy Gabaldon a mammoth amount of cash in early September, 1963. In the subsequent meeting with ex-General Edwin Walker, plans were made for Gabaldon to lead a team (Hall and Howard) to guide Lee Harvey Oswald in the direction they wanted him to go, starting in Mexico City.

So, Ian, that should explain why Walker used Rousselot, Howard and Hall. Now let's look at your second question: "were the Minutemen on wages?"

The answer is simple: no, they were not on wages. The Minutemen were 100% volunteer, and they brought their own weapons and ammunition to the training camps, and they paid their own way (i.e. there was passable food for sale at the camps), plus they paid monthly, quarterly or annual dues.

For larger weapons and expenses, wealthy donors sent lots of money to Robert De Pugh, who would dole it out as needed to his local leaders, but none of that ever went for wages.

Your third question, Ian, is also interesting. "If Walker was a self obsessed nut why not pull the trigger himself?"

It's a temptation to think of Walker as a "nut" because he was a member of the John Birch Society which preached that all US Presents from FDR foward were Communist traitors. Also, JFK and RFK tossed Walker into an insane asylum for six days.

However, Edwin Walker was a two star General, a graduate of West Point, and a hero of World War Two and the Korean War. (In the Korean War, for example, he is credited for taking Pork Chop Hill, as I recall.) Further, Edwin Walker was trained in special operations before there was a Green Beret organization. Walker was an expert in secret warfare.

As an example of how Edwin Walker would operate -- about one month before the killing of JFK, Dallas was the host to Adlai Stevenson on 24 October 1963, who was going to present a glorified portrait of the United Nations, for which he was the US Ambassador. Adlai called it, "UN Day."

However -- Dallas was then Edwin Walker's home town. Edwin Walker had his own John Birch Society chapter, and it was the second tenet of the BIrchers that the United Nations was entirely a Communist operation. The Birchers' had a double-slogan, namely, "US out of UN now!" and "UN out of US now!"

Adlai Stevenson didn't know what he was getting himself into. On 23 October 1963, Edwin Walker called a new day -- "US Day" -- and, using the same auditorium that Adlai Stevenson hired, Walker held a massive meeting of right-wing radicals, and made elaborate plans to booby-trap the auditorium with hundreds of tickets for UN-haters with halloween noisemakers and instructions to heckle Adlai mercilessly. Then, a big banner would fall from the ceiling, reading: "US out of UN now!" and "UN out of US now!"

It's a good idea to read the story from a news article the day after. Here's a URL:

http://www.pet880.com/images/19631024_Texas_Observer.pdf

The point is, that after all that preparation, Edwin Walker himself did not attend the heckling party! He stayed away. He had made the preparations, and it was up to others to carry out the instructions. That is how a real General operates.

Good questions, Ian.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited June 3, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Guest Tom Scully]

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The assassination of JFK was a serious political and military project for Harry -- and had nothing to do with individual preferences.

Therefore, Ian, I propose to move the discussion of Edwin Walker's homosexuality to the Edwin Walker thread started by Jim Root. I will extend this discussion on that thread today.

.................................................

Good questions, Ian.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Thank you for reminding readers of the origins of the Edwin Walker thread, but why mention who started it, anymore? All things considered, why does it matter? At some point, is it not disingenuous to add "started by Jim Root"? A contemporary alternative?:

"Therefore, Ian, I propose to move the discussion of Edwin Walker's homosexuality to the Edwin Walker thread overwhelmed by ____ _______. I will extend this discussion on that thread today."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=stats&do=who&t=2544

Who posted in: Edwin Walker Member name Posts Paul Trejo 155John Dolva 28 Michael Hogan 21 Jim Root 19.........

Edited June 2, 2013 by Tom Scully