Shooter, Radioman, Spotter

[Bill Miller]

Enough!

Now Bill, please show us ALL of the direct testimony and evidence made by witnesses at the scene on 11/22/63, which directly state as to having observed anyone with a rifle (or for that matter any other weapon) who was observed firing at/in the direction of the Presidential Limousine.

You really should concentrate on reviewing the direct witness testimony and statements as you just may learn something worthwhile.

You must be joking. Is it your position that when Rowland saw the Negro - that he didn't know the 5th floor from the 6th floor?

I not only have read the direct witnesses testimony, but also have viewed several filmed interviews of certain witnesses. If I take your position ... I'd assume that the man seen holding a rifle must have been on the 5th floor. Again, Purvy ... when the bones on the back of someone's skull are sprung opened to the rear - what direction was that projectile traveling?

Bill Miller

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Enough!

Now Bill, please show us ALL of the direct testimony and evidence made by witnesses at the scene on 11/22/63, which directly state as to having observed anyone with a rifle (or for that matter any other weapon) who was observed firing at/in the direction of the Presidential Limousine.

You really should concentrate on reviewing the direct witness testimony and statements as you just may learn something worthwhile.

You must be joking. Is it your position that when Rowland saw the Negro - that he didn't know the 5th floor from the 6th floor?

I not only have read the direct witnesses testimony, but also have viewed several filmed interviews of certain witnesses. If I take your position ... I'd assume that the man seen holding a rifle must have been on the 5th floor. Again, Purvy ... when the bones on the back of someone's skull are sprung opened to the rear - what direction was that projectile traveling?

Bill Miller

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

Where was that witness testimony as regards others who observed someone from some other position firing a rifle?? How about in possession of a rifle???

I certainly missed it, in event you found and posted it.

[Bill Miller]

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

Please just answer the question. Again, Purvy ... when the bones on the back of someone's skull are sprung opened to the rear - what direction was that projectile traveling?

Bill

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

Please just answer the question. Again, Purvy ... when the bones on the back of someone's skull are sprung opened to the rear - what direction was that projectile traveling?

Bill

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

I would draw you a picture since you apparantly can only look at pictures in attempt to resolve the issues of the assassination, but since Dr. Boswell has long ago drawn one, complete with the entry into the back of the skull, complete with arrow, this too would obviously be a waste of time.

In event you can not figure out the WHY? that the rear of the skull fractured and fragmented, especially after all that has been provided and stated, then perhaps you had best go back to looking at the Z-film and attempt to resolve it.

"Sprung" out is a considerable distance from having been "Blasted" out by an exiting bullet. And, since the bullet entry which caused this wound at the EOP, completed the fracturing of the rear section of the skull, then it does not even take a smart person to figure out why the internal pressure created by the bullet entering the cerebral cavity/brain, created more than adequate internal pressure to "Spring"/force the fractured and fragmented skull open at the back of the head.

That you can not understand this is your problem in lack of research as to the wounds as well as an apparant failure to even discuss the subject matter with any of the autopsy surgeons.

Not unlike many, just "Make Up" your own interpretation, and drive on with it, irrelevant as to anything factual.

By the way, not only were portions of the rear of the skull "sprung" out/open, there was also at least one piece which was separated from the skull, which contained the upper one-half of the EOP entrance wound, which apparantly became totally separated.

Again! Try reading (and understanding) the autopsy report. Then, go to the HSCA discussions on the subject matter. Too bad that Dr. Humes is now deceased and Dr. Finck lives in Switzerland and will not discuss the subject, and Dr. Boswell is now quite old, but in event you have been at this for your claimed time, I personally see little or no excuse at not having attempted to discuss the subject matter with at least one of those individuals who actually had "hands-on" experience.

In event this "Sprung" open interpretation represents your evidence of a frontal shot/rearward exit, then you are even farther out on a limb than am I.

You truly should take a close look and examination of ALL of the pathological evidence as relates to the head injuries of JFK.

Sort of helps prevent one from "Springing" to erroneous conclusions.

[Bill Miller]

By the way, not only were portions of the rear of the skull "sprung" out/open, there was also at least one piece which was separated from the skull, which contained the upper one-half of the EOP entrance wound, which apparantly became totally separated.

In event this "Sprung" open interpretation represents your evidence of a frontal shot/rearward exit, then you are even farther out on a limb than am I.

Purvy, you are jackin' around here. We are not talking about my interpretation, but rather what the Dallas doctors described seeing with their own eyes. So again, regardless of anyones interpretations - just tell this forum what direction a shot was traveling if the bones on the back of someones head is sprung open to the rear? This is a simple question that can be answered outside the realm of the JFK asassination.

Bill Miller

[Al Carrier]

Sorry to be the one to dissapoint you! However, the U.S. Secret Service as well as the FBI had this pretty well wrapped up before the end of 1963.

And, unlike some podunk cops, I am neither under the assumption that I am more qualified, have more experience, and/or access to more information and resources than did the SS & FBI have available to them to resolve the issues.

I am however intelligent enough to recognize that the US Secret Service as well as the FBI, easily had the resources to quickly resolved the issues of the assassination.

Therefore, anyone on this forum (or any other forum for that matter) who is under the assumption that the US Secret Service and the FBI could not resolve the issues of the assassination, and that "THEY" (some podunk cop who claims great sniper training and crime investigation knowledge) with all of their great "CANYON SHOOT/mythological SCOUT SNIPER SCHOOL" training, as well as their city cop training, possess more qualifications to resolve the issues of the assassination than the FBI/SS, merely demonstrate their complete ignorance of the capabilities of the Department of Justice as well as the US Treasury Department.

The nice (& easy, I might add) part about debting with the "Multiple Assassin" groupings is the simple fact that to date, absolutely no one has demonstrated a single forensic; ballistic; pathological; and/or physical fact which would support shots striking JFK from any direction other than the rear, and above.

Not to mention the fact that few if any can even agree as to the exact firing position of the great mythological multiple assassin.

Nevertheless, it is always good for a laugh!

Mr. Purvis,

Nice to know I can make you laugh. By the way, what do you bring to the table to qualify you in interpreting anything? You are not worthy of my time, even though I am a podunk cop. At least I have a title. You have never addressed my issues, only attacked me. And you have only attacked me with words and not attacked my credentials. If you would like to do that, then maybe I will discuss this with you intelligently. I will not get into the name calling as you are looking for a fight, which is typical of those who do not have ammunition for an intelligent debate.

Al

which is typical of those who do not have ammunition for an intelligent debate.

Al

Were it that I were debating, and/or debating with someone who demonstrated an intelligent capability, as well as the ability to conduct factual research, then there would be little problems.

Come on "Big Al", inquiring minds want to know about all of the evaluation of the evidence you have conducted, as well as what new revelations you can prove.

I do recall some time ago, on Lancer, when I first posted information relative to the weight loss to a bullet merely from having been fired, and that had not been taken into consideration in accountability for the accountable weight of CE399, that you "jumped" in and made some statement to the effect that "everyone" knew that a bullet lost weight.

Nope! Big Al, everyone did not know that! And not only that, as of then, and as of this date, to my knowledge, I remain the only person who has taken the time and effort to weigh a WCC Carcano bullet prior to firing it, fire and recover it, and thus re-weigh the bullet to demonstrate this.

Which if recalled, amounted to 0.63 grains of weight loss from being fired.

Exactly where were you during all of this knowledge gathering, which I did way back in the early 90"s?

Something which even you may have been qualified to do, yet apparantly did not have the understanding of ballistics to even take the time and conduct the test to present the FACTS!.

And, this type of demonstration regarding your lack of factual research could go on, and on, and on.

You fully demonstrated your own lack of knowledge as well as inability to research a subject matter when you "signed" on as one of the worshipers of "Dangerous Dan Marvin".

When I saw this, on Lancer, there was little doubt as to your lack of qualifications in virtually anything, including even the most basic research capability.

You remind me of a used car salesman, who because he claims to have been selling "quality" cars for 30 years, is therefore trustworthy and should be believed in regards to the quality and condition of some car which is attempting to be sold.

Go back to playing with your paintball guns Al!

Fortunately, there are those who visit this forum who understand the necessity of FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

With the information which I have progressively been providing, it is now unlikely that the facts of the JFK assassination shooting will remain lost and/or confused for too much longer.

In that regards, History will hopefully correct itself, and when it does, there will be many who, provided that they are still living, will want to change their names and hide for having expoused and/or believed some of the nonsense surrounding this subject.

In event that it would appear that this "Correct History" has not occurred prior to my death, then rest assured that it will be engraved on my headstone" "WAS NEVER SO STUPID TO BELIEVE IN MULTIPLE ASSASSINS OR BODY KIDNAPPINGS", in order that the living world will always know exactly what position I took.

You, as well as many others, have ranted on for years about the "impossibility" of the shots in Dealy Plaza, without even taking the time and effort to determine if the WC representation was factual.

Yet, you continue to rant and rave about the WC Lie!

It does not take even a smart or intelligent person to recognize that the WC is not a factual presentation of the evidence surrounding the assassination.

It does however require a little effort as well as research ability to demonstrate the absolute error of the WC manipulations of the facts.

None of which I might add, have ever been forthcoming from you!

At least, over on alt.assassination, there is one individual who demonstrated the research capability to recognize that the Z312/313 headshot WAS NOT the last shot fired in the shooting sequence.

And although he is still under the impression that the third/last/final shot was not fired from the TSDB, at least he is that much closer to the facts and truth than the great "Al Carrier", podunk cop extraordnaire!

And, I might add, this person has little if any training and/or experience in police investigation and/or shooting/and or weapons.

So Al! Continue to "blow smoke" up your on rectal orifice, since you apparantly have convinced yourself that you know something on this subject matter.

And, by all means continue to blow it up those who have no better sense than to accept it as if it came from some reliable source.

Which I might add, is one of the reasons that few have managed to even follow the evidence trail as they have become far too lost in searching for the BS which you and the Body Kidnappers continue to foster.

And in that regards, those few of us who like to stick with the known facts, have little to worry about in the way of you and your followers ever coming upon the facts of the assassination as well as what the WC lie is truly about, as well as the WHY? of Jack Ruby shooting LHO.

Lastly, I would remind those of "your followers", that the last time that I checked, you were merely a follower of a retired QUARTERMASTER SUPPLY CORPS, retired LTC, who was attempting to follow suit with the nonsense of conspiracies surrounding this subject.

Therefore, I am reminded of the old saying about the "blind being led by the blind", as well as the numerous "dumb & dumber" sayings.

Either statement of which I will personally pay for the cost of having engraved on your headstone, when History corrects the many misconceptions as regards the shots fired in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63.

Mr. Purvis,

I will not get into your level of discussions because you discuss nothing other than name calling and attacking persons without actually looking to see who you are attacking. If you are bright enough, check with my state academy to see if I hold the credentials in LE that I claim to. Check with the first judicial district court in my state to see if I am certified as an expert witness in ballistics and weapons. Check with my department to see what my background in LE is. Check with any soldier who has been through the training to see if I am accurate. If you are unwilling to do that, then you are simply spouting venom at me due to your lack of intelligence and I feel sorry for you for that.

I have paid many prices in my life in both LE and in the military and you are not worthy of my time. It is sad that so many exchange with you and allow you to spout your ignorant venom at them when they question your rediculous theories and ask simple questions.

You are crude and ignorant and I am surprised that you have an audience at all. I would not now put it past you to have posted as me in the exchange prior to this before I had John change my access code. You obviously live in too small a world and I would suggest you get a positive hobby.

I will not respond to you any more and others who question my credibility can check on me as it is all public.

Al

[Thomas H. Purvis]

By the way, not only were portions of the rear of the skull "sprung" out/open, there was also at least one piece which was separated from the skull, which contained the upper one-half of the EOP entrance wound, which apparantly became totally separated.

In event this "Sprung" open interpretation represents your evidence of a frontal shot/rearward exit, then you are even farther out on a limb than am I.

Purvy, you are jackin' around here. We are not talking about my interpretation, but rather what the Dallas doctors described seeing with their own eyes. So again, regardless of anyones interpretations - just tell this forum what direction a shot was traveling if the bones on the back of someones head is sprung open to the rear? This is a simple question that can be answered outside the realm of the JFK asassination.

Bill Miller

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

But obviously it has not!

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Sorry to be the one to dissapoint you! However, the U.S. Secret Service as well as the FBI had this pretty well wrapped up before the end of 1963.

And, unlike some podunk cops, I am neither under the assumption that I am more qualified, have more experience, and/or access to more information and resources than did the SS & FBI have available to them to resolve the issues.

I am however intelligent enough to recognize that the US Secret Service as well as the FBI, easily had the resources to quickly resolved the issues of the assassination.

Therefore, anyone on this forum (or any other forum for that matter) who is under the assumption that the US Secret Service and the FBI could not resolve the issues of the assassination, and that "THEY" (some podunk cop who claims great sniper training and crime investigation knowledge) with all of their great "CANYON SHOOT/mythological SCOUT SNIPER SCHOOL" training, as well as their city cop training, possess more qualifications to resolve the issues of the assassination than the FBI/SS, merely demonstrate their complete ignorance of the capabilities of the Department of Justice as well as the US Treasury Department.

The nice (& easy, I might add) part about debting with the "Multiple Assassin" groupings is the simple fact that to date, absolutely no one has demonstrated a single forensic; ballistic; pathological; and/or physical fact which would support shots striking JFK from any direction other than the rear, and above.

Not to mention the fact that few if any can even agree as to the exact firing position of the great mythological multiple assassin.

Nevertheless, it is always good for a laugh!

Mr. Purvis,

Nice to know I can make you laugh. By the way, what do you bring to the table to qualify you in interpreting anything? You are not worthy of my time, even though I am a podunk cop. At least I have a title. You have never addressed my issues, only attacked me. And you have only attacked me with words and not attacked my credentials. If you would like to do that, then maybe I will discuss this with you intelligently. I will not get into the name calling as you are looking for a fight, which is typical of those who do not have ammunition for an intelligent debate.

Al

which is typical of those who do not have ammunition for an intelligent debate.

Al

Were it that I were debating, and/or debating with someone who demonstrated an intelligent capability, as well as the ability to conduct factual research, then there would be little problems.

Come on "Big Al", inquiring minds want to know about all of the evaluation of the evidence you have conducted, as well as what new revelations you can prove.

I do recall some time ago, on Lancer, when I first posted information relative to the weight loss to a bullet merely from having been fired, and that had not been taken into consideration in accountability for the accountable weight of CE399, that you "jumped" in and made some statement to the effect that "everyone" knew that a bullet lost weight.

Nope! Big Al, everyone did not know that! And not only that, as of then, and as of this date, to my knowledge, I remain the only person who has taken the time and effort to weigh a WCC Carcano bullet prior to firing it, fire and recover it, and thus re-weigh the bullet to demonstrate this.

Which if recalled, amounted to 0.63 grains of weight loss from being fired.

Exactly where were you during all of this knowledge gathering, which I did way back in the early 90"s?

Something which even you may have been qualified to do, yet apparantly did not have the understanding of ballistics to even take the time and conduct the test to present the FACTS!.

And, this type of demonstration regarding your lack of factual research could go on, and on, and on.

You fully demonstrated your own lack of knowledge as well as inability to research a subject matter when you "signed" on as one of the worshipers of "Dangerous Dan Marvin".

When I saw this, on Lancer, there was little doubt as to your lack of qualifications in virtually anything, including even the most basic research capability.

You remind me of a used car salesman, who because he claims to have been selling "quality" cars for 30 years, is therefore trustworthy and should be believed in regards to the quality and condition of some car which is attempting to be sold.

Go back to playing with your paintball guns Al!

Fortunately, there are those who visit this forum who understand the necessity of FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

With the information which I have progressively been providing, it is now unlikely that the facts of the JFK assassination shooting will remain lost and/or confused for too much longer.

In that regards, History will hopefully correct itself, and when it does, there will be many who, provided that they are still living, will want to change their names and hide for having expoused and/or believed some of the nonsense surrounding this subject.

In event that it would appear that this "Correct History" has not occurred prior to my death, then rest assured that it will be engraved on my headstone" "WAS NEVER SO STUPID TO BELIEVE IN MULTIPLE ASSASSINS OR BODY KIDNAPPINGS", in order that the living world will always know exactly what position I took.

You, as well as many others, have ranted on for years about the "impossibility" of the shots in Dealy Plaza, without even taking the time and effort to determine if the WC representation was factual.

Yet, you continue to rant and rave about the WC Lie!

It does not take even a smart or intelligent person to recognize that the WC is not a factual presentation of the evidence surrounding the assassination.

It does however require a little effort as well as research ability to demonstrate the absolute error of the WC manipulations of the facts.

None of which I might add, have ever been forthcoming from you!

At least, over on alt.assassination, there is one individual who demonstrated the research capability to recognize that the Z312/313 headshot WAS NOT the last shot fired in the shooting sequence.

And although he is still under the impression that the third/last/final shot was not fired from the TSDB, at least he is that much closer to the facts and truth than the great "Al Carrier", podunk cop extraordnaire!

And, I might add, this person has little if any training and/or experience in police investigation and/or shooting/and or weapons.

So Al! Continue to "blow smoke" up your on rectal orifice, since you apparantly have convinced yourself that you know something on this subject matter.

And, by all means continue to blow it up those who have no better sense than to accept it as if it came from some reliable source.

Which I might add, is one of the reasons that few have managed to even follow the evidence trail as they have become far too lost in searching for the BS which you and the Body Kidnappers continue to foster.

And in that regards, those few of us who like to stick with the known facts, have little to worry about in the way of you and your followers ever coming upon the facts of the assassination as well as what the WC lie is truly about, as well as the WHY? of Jack Ruby shooting LHO.

Lastly, I would remind those of "your followers", that the last time that I checked, you were merely a follower of a retired QUARTERMASTER SUPPLY CORPS, retired LTC, who was attempting to follow suit with the nonsense of conspiracies surrounding this subject.

Therefore, I am reminded of the old saying about the "blind being led by the blind", as well as the numerous "dumb & dumber" sayings.

Either statement of which I will personally pay for the cost of having engraved on your headstone, when History corrects the many misconceptions as regards the shots fired in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63.

Mr. Purvis,

I will not get into your level of discussions because you discuss nothing other than name calling and attacking persons without actually looking to see who you are attacking. If you are bright enough, check with my state academy to see if I hold the credentials in LE that I claim to. Check with the first judicial district court in my state to see if I am certified as an expert witness in ballistics and weapons. Check with my department to see what my background in LE is. Check with any soldier who has been through the training to see if I am accurate. If you are unwilling to do that, then you are simply spouting venom at me due to your lack of intelligence and I feel sorry for you for that.

I have paid many prices in my life in both LE and in the military and you are not worthy of my time. It is sad that so many exchange with you and allow you to spout your ignorant venom at them when they question your rediculous theories and ask simple questions.

You are crude and ignorant and I am surprised that you have an audience at all. I would not now put it past you to have posted as me in the exchange prior to this before I had John change my access code. You obviously live in too small a world and I would suggest you get a positive hobby.

I will not respond to you any more and others who question my credibility can check on me as it is all public.

Al

I will not respond to you any more and others who question my credibility can check on me as it is all public.

Al

Al:

Your "credibility" came into question the minute that I first read some of your postings over on JFK Lancer some years ago.

In that regards, my initial interpretation was that you were either grossly ignorant of the facts of the assassination, or else merely grossly ignorant.

After having observed your lap-dog worship of Dangerous Dan, as well as other demonstrations as to how little you actually know on the subject matter of the JFK assassination, I have come to the realization that you obviously fall into both categories.

Why don't you cease to blow smoke and present some factual evidence here. Or, is it locked up in the same Safety Deposit Box with all of your other "secret" stuff which protects you and your family from those who would like to keep you quiet?

I would suppose that you had best also lock up your laptop from now on as well, in order to prevent those "unknown" persons from utilizing your name and continueing to make it appear that you are a dumbass.

So, not unlike many others, why don't you presents some facts?

Why don't you present some "original" research which is supported by facts?

Why don't you tell all of us about the "Mythological Marathon Scout Sniper School?

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your great duties as an MP in the U.S. Army.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your education and schooling in recognized schools which deal with forensics and pathology.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of the personal research you have conducted in which you located and spoke with some of the "First Hand" persons such as the autopsy surgeons; FBI Agents: Parkland personnel;.

There are no doubt those on this forum who "follow" your BS, just as there were followers of Jim Jones; Charles Manson; etc; etc; etc;, without requiring any demonstration of factual research and/or research ability on your part.

Rest assured that I am not one of them, and not only that, I have a pretty good ability to recognize the BS which you keep attempting to sell on this forum as well as elsewhere.

You apparantly do not even possess the intelligence and/or reading comprehension and research ability to recognize the shooting sequence as it occured in Dealy Plaza, even with multitudes of witnesses telling that the delay between shot# 1 and shot#2 was considerably longer than between shot#2 and shot#3.

Which, would have informed ANY COMPETENT INVESTIGATIVE person as to where to look for the third/last/final shot fired in the assassination shot sequence.

You, Al, as a Police Officer (Lt.), should possess the investigative ability to review the witness testimony as well as the FACTUAL ballistic, forensic; and pathological evidence, and derive a logical conclusion based on the evidence.

Instead, you launch off onto your "Canyon Shoot" BS/Scenario, which happens to be founded in absolutely ZERO basis in fact, and not unlike some used car salesman offer your 30+ years of experience as evidence that the Multiple assassin scenario is factual.

The fact is, you are factually ignorant of the facts!

As well as apparantly being unable to read, research, and understand what lies in front of your nose.

So! Remember this Al. History is about to correct itself as regards the facts of the JFK Assassination, and when it does, there will be many who will be labeled a complete "DUMBASS".

Rest assured that I am willing to place my reputation on the line and risk haveing such permanently stenciled on my gravestone, or else I would not be providing the information in my possession.

Therefore, might I recommend that you take a look at how you want to be labeled.

[Bill Miller]

I would suppose that you had best also lock up your laptop from now on as well, in order to prevent those "unknown" persons from utilizing your name and continueing to make it appear that you are a dumbass.

So, not unlike many others, why don't you presents some facts?

Why don't you present some "original" research which is supported by facts?

Why don't you tell all of us about the "Mythological Marathon Scout Sniper School?

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your great duties as an MP in the U.S. Army.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your education and schooling in recognized schools which deal with forensics and pathology.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of the personal research you have conducted in which you located and spoke with some of the "First Hand" persons such as the autopsy surgeons; FBI Agents: Parkland personnel;.

Purvis, it just dawned on me that you are not interested in the truth, but rather you are someone on a mission of spreading disinformation. Are you aware that Al has had CSI training which deals in forensic evidence? Again, Purvy ... if the bones on the back of someone's head are sprung opened to the rear - tell us what direction was the bullet traveling? Why not answer the simple question I have put to you a half of a dozen times now rather than making an ass out of yourself trying to compete with Al.

Bill

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I would suppose that you had best also lock up your laptop from now on as well, in order to prevent those "unknown" persons from utilizing your name and continueing to make it appear that you are a dumbass.

So, not unlike many others, why don't you presents some facts?

Why don't you present some "original" research which is supported by facts?

Why don't you tell all of us about the "Mythological Marathon Scout Sniper School?

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your great duties as an MP in the U.S. Army.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your education and schooling in recognized schools which deal with forensics and pathology.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of the personal research you have conducted in which you located and spoke with some of the "First Hand" persons such as the autopsy surgeons; FBI Agents: Parkland personnel;.

Purvis, it just dawned on me that you are not interested in the truth, but rather you are someone on a mission of spreading disinformation. Are you aware that Al has had CSI training which deals in forensic evidence? Again, Purvy ... if the bones on the back of someone's head are sprung opened to the rear - tell us what direction was the bullet traveling? Why not answer the simple question I have put to you a half of a dozen times now rather than making an ass out of yourself trying to compete with Al.

Bill

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

But obviously it has not!

Hate to be the one to inform you Bill, but this is somewhat like the blind being led by the blind.

In event that your "source" as well as your "evidence" is based on the auspices of the great "Scout Sniper", then you are even more lacking in research ability than he.

rather than making an ass out of yourself trying to compete with Al.

Might I recommend that you reconsider exactly who, it would appear, is making an ass of himself in that he, along with his leader, have apparantly never bothered to check out the "FACTUAL" evidence.

I will repeat! The Movie: JFK, unsupported "Canyon Shoot" scenario's, and fractured bone in the back of the head, do not contistute factual evidence upon which one can determine a bullet trajectory.

Such items as bullet entrances through the skull, as in the EOP entry, in which the internal wall of the skull exhibits the physical characteristic of beveling, as well as bullet pathways which begin at the tip of the occipital lobe of the brain, are the kinds of thing which you, as well as Mr. Carrier, should read up on and make an attempt to understand.

It is what the courts refer to as "FACTUAL EVIDENCE", not MAKE BELIEVE, as imagined by those who actually conducted no physical examination, and especially those who merely read into the statements of those who conducted no true physical examination of JFK.

That you; Mr. Carrier, and for that matter anyone else, has not taken the time and effort to fully examine the forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical evidence, is not unsual.

Just as it is not unusual for many persons to have fallen for and believed the "Body Kidnapping" scenario of David Lifton.

Personally, I have never been so stupid to have believed even an "iota" of the Body Kidnapping scenario, and I might add, the "Second Shooter" was given only the most cursory of examination since there was ABSOLUTELY ZERO evidence to support this mythological being.

And, in event that you continue to promote this myth, based on nothing more than the fact that the bone at the back of the head of JFK, in the vicinity of the EOP, was fractured, fragmented, and shattered, then you have fully demonstrated that not unlike our old "Work Mules", you have blinders on and can not, for whatever reason, understand that there are always alternative answers in which the facts and evidence demonstrate the complete inaccuracy of what you continue to promote.

Any idiot can look at some of the autopsy drawings and fully recognize the fracture and fragmentation to the rear of the skull of JFK.

However, it does take a little effort as well as research ability to understand exactly HOW? these bones became so fractured.

Which I might add, it would appear that neither you, nor the great CSI/Scout Sniper Al Carrier have taken the time and effort to do.

That you can not derive an alternative (and correct I might add) answer to the pathological evidence, and must therefore determine that it represents a "Shot from the Front", is your problem. Not mine!

Personally, I do not like for thinking persons to get the impression that this problem is sooooo complicated that I have to make up things to support some mythological being and a hypothesis which is based on no factual evidence and/or research.

I would therefore suppose that your name can be added to the listing of those persons who will never understand the assassination, and, 43 years from now, will still be stumbling around in the dark and chasing unicorns.

[Mark Knight]

Far be it from me to become a participant in what is increasingly becoming a urination contest. But as far as the "springing" of the bones in the skull vs. the direction of fire, let me relate an observation from personal experience, and then you "gentlemen" can argue the applicability of my example.

As a boy of about 11 or 12, I was allowed to use one of my dad's .22 rifles for target practice with a friend my age. One day while out shooting, we set up as a target a one-gallon paint can that was about half full of rain water. The can had been out in the weather for ages, it appeared, and the bottom was quite rusty. We selected as our target an "O" in one of the words on the label, near the bottom of the can.

When I shot the can, water was forced not only upward through the open top, but also downward, "springing open" the heavily-rusted bottom of the can as well. There WAS no shot from the top that sprung the bottom of the can open...yet open it did.

Since the brain matter in JFK's skull was, for all intents and purposes, incompressible, would not the pressure exerted by a bullet strike to the head, whether from the front OR the rear, not have at least CONTRIBUTED to the "springing open" of these bones--especially once the skin over them had been breached, thereby allowing a release point for SOME of the pressure?

I'm not disallowing the possibility of a frontal shot, although I nowadays think it unlikely. But with the brain occupying the skull cavity, would not a certain level of the dynamics of fluids not also apply? In other words, would not the brain itself then, in the first milliseconds, to transfer the force of the bullet's impact in EVERY direction, to one degree or another? Or does this part of physics not apply to the human skull?

I'm no expert. I just know what I've read and what I've observed. I'm not trained in wound ballistics or other forensic stuff...but that's why I'm putting this forth as a QUESTION, and not as some statement of fact. Perhaps one of the folks who have studied this area can help clarify this for me.

[Bill Miller]

As a boy of about 11 or 12, I was allowed to use one of my dad's .22 rifles for target practice with a friend my age. One day while out shooting, we set up as a target a one-gallon paint can that was about half full of rain water. The can had been out in the weather for ages, it appeared, and the bottom was quite rusty. We selected as our target an "O" in one of the words on the label, near the bottom of the can.

When I shot the can, water was forced not only upward through the open top, but also downward, "springing open" the heavily-rusted bottom of the can as well. There WAS no shot from the top that sprung the bottom of the can open...yet open it did.

Yes, cans can rust to the point of being paper thin, as well as pipes in a persons home until one day all of a sudden you have water spraying from a pin hole that wasn't leaking only moments before. I too, have shot soda cans, beer cans, and a few paint cans in my day. The Dallas doctors, who were quite familiar with gunshots to the human body, knew that when entering the body a bullet will puncture the surface, while exiting the body it will push open the surface. This is exactly why they therorized that a bullet may have entered the throat and exited the back of the President's head. A simple test can be done by taking a paper napkin and shoving your finger through it and seeing that the napkin will avulse/spring open in the direction your finger was being pushed as it penetrated the surface. I have repeatedly asked Purvis to acknowledge this rule of physics, but I assume that because he is aware of its implications ... he instead chose to dance around the matter. Purvis will ask you to look at an autopsy report, but doesn't ask that you look at what those individuals who were present at the autopsy had to say about the large hole in the back of JFK's head. This is one example of the type of criticsms Al had about Purvis's modus-operandi on this forum. Purvis knows that if he admits that a missile leaving the head will spring open the bones, then one is left with then weighing the credibility of the Dallas doctors and nurses, the FBI Agents Sibert and O'Neal, and the Bethesda witnesses who saw a large hole in the back of the President's head over what the autopsy report stated. Purvis reminds me of a realtor who after you have interviewed the firemen who were once called to a 4'alarm fire at the said property and heard how they battled the flames, then talked to the construction crew who came in and did the cleanup and remodeling ... Purvis will tell you there must never of been a fire because the listing shows a nice pristine home for sale.

Bill Miller

Edited June 17, 2006 by Bill Miller

[John Simkin]

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

I would draw you a picture since you apparantly can only look at pictures in attempt to resolve the issues of the assassination, but since Dr. Boswell has long ago drawn one, complete with the entry into the back of the skull, complete with arrow, this too would obviously be a waste of time.

In event you can not figure out the WHY? that the rear of the skull fractured and fragmented, especially after all that has been provided and stated, then perhaps you had best go back to looking at the Z-film and attempt to resolve it.

"Sprung" out is a considerable distance from having been "Blasted" out by an exiting bullet. And, since the bullet entry which caused this wound at the EOP, completed the fracturing of the rear section of the skull, then it does not even take a smart person to figure out why the internal pressure created by the bullet entering the cerebral cavity/brain, created more than adequate internal pressure to "Spring"/force the fractured and fragmented skull open at the back of the head.

That you can not understand this is your problem in lack of research as to the wounds as well as an apparant failure to even discuss the subject matter with any of the autopsy surgeons.

Not unlike many, just "Make Up" your own interpretation, and drive on with it, irrelevant as to anything factual.

By the way, not only were portions of the rear of the skull "sprung" out/open, there was also at least one piece which was separated from the skull, which contained the upper one-half of the EOP entrance wound, which apparantly became totally separated.

Again! Try reading (and understanding) the autopsy report. Then, go to the HSCA discussions on the subject matter. Too bad that Dr. Humes is now deceased and Dr. Finck lives in Switzerland and will not discuss the subject, and Dr. Boswell is now quite old, but in event you have been at this for your claimed time, I personally see little or no excuse at not having attempted to discuss the subject matter with at least one of those individuals who actually had "hands-on" experience.

In event this "Sprung" open interpretation represents your evidence of a frontal shot/rearward exit, then you are even farther out on a limb than am I.

You truly should take a close look and examination of ALL of the pathological evidence as relates to the head injuries of JFK.

Sort of helps prevent one from "Springing" to erroneous conclusions.

Thomas, I am not convinced you are really interested in having an intellectual debate about this subject. However, if you are, I suggest you take a look at the following threads.

Cover-Up of the Medical Evidence

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6849

The Autopsy Photos: A New Perspective

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2398

JFK Rear Head Wound

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2349

Headshot Theory

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3937

Trajectory Analysis and the Assassination of JFK

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6386

[Brendan Slattery]

Try reading the autopsy report Bill, it just may help.

I would draw you a picture since you apparantly can only look at pictures in attempt to resolve the issues of the assassination, but since Dr. Boswell has long ago drawn one, complete with the entry into the back of the skull, complete with arrow, this too would obviously be a waste of time.

In event you can not figure out the WHY? that the rear of the skull fractured and fragmented, especially after all that has been provided and stated, then perhaps you had best go back to looking at the Z-film and attempt to resolve it.

"Sprung" out is a considerable distance from having been "Blasted" out by an exiting bullet. And, since the bullet entry which caused this wound at the EOP, completed the fracturing of the rear section of the skull, then it does not even take a smart person to figure out why the internal pressure created by the bullet entering the cerebral cavity/brain, created more than adequate internal pressure to "Spring"/force the fractured and fragmented skull open at the back of the head.

That you can not understand this is your problem in lack of research as to the wounds as well as an apparant failure to even discuss the subject matter with any of the autopsy surgeons.

Not unlike many, just "Make Up" your own interpretation, and drive on with it, irrelevant as to anything factual.

By the way, not only were portions of the rear of the skull "sprung" out/open, there was also at least one piece which was separated from the skull, which contained the upper one-half of the EOP entrance wound, which apparantly became totally separated.

Again! Try reading (and understanding) the autopsy report. Then, go to the HSCA discussions on the subject matter. Too bad that Dr. Humes is now deceased and Dr. Finck lives in Switzerland and will not discuss the subject, and Dr. Boswell is now quite old, but in event you have been at this for your claimed time, I personally see little or no excuse at not having attempted to discuss the subject matter with at least one of those individuals who actually had "hands-on" experience.

In event this "Sprung" open interpretation represents your evidence of a frontal shot/rearward exit, then you are even farther out on a limb than am I.

You truly should take a close look and examination of ALL of the pathological evidence as relates to the head injuries of JFK.

Sort of helps prevent one from "Springing" to erroneous conclusions.

Thomas, I am not convinced you are really interested in having an intellectual debate about this subject. However, if you are, I suggest you take a look at the following threads.

Cover-Up of the Medical Evidence

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6849

The Autopsy Photos: A New Perspective

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2398

JFK Rear Head Wound

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2349

Headshot Theory

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3937

Trajectory Analysis and the Assassination of JFK

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6386

Christ, could you be more smug and condescending? Tom dares to stray from the party line and he's not being "intellectual" enough for you? As opposed to the grossly anti-intellectual, anti-US poison you spread here and at Spartacus? No wonder anti-Americanism is on the rise in Europe.

Tom, don't bother clicking on any of those links. It's the same recycled nonsense from amateurs who are not board certified or credentialed in any way. Hell, even the 1976 House investigation concluded that the (alleged) Knoll shot MISSED. But when has reason ever mattered to the buffs?

[Bill Miller]

Tom, don't bother clicking on any of those links. It's the same recycled nonsense from amateurs who are not board certified or credentialed in any way. Hell, even the 1976 House investigation concluded that the (alleged) Knoll shot MISSED. But when has reason ever mattered to the buffs?

Brendan, I will ask you the same question ... What direction was a bullet traveling in order to spring open the bones to the rear on the back of JFK's head?

Bill