Mark Stapleton Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) Double post. Crackpot mistake. Edited June 21, 2006 by Mark Stapleton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 (edited) Gary Mack informed me that the activity in the Dorman frames seen in the GIFs I created are essentially at the time of the headshot [i am thinking perhaps shortly thereafter] - not a time for folks to be wandering in the bushes. That only excerbates the situation? So Rosemary Willis [don't know if she is still using her married name], is probably key to understanding what happened there. Does anyone know how to reach her? I have only one question for her. On some of the absurdity that has accompanied this thread - my own included - it's sad, but true. $5K isn't going to be sufficient for anyone to take the risk of providing any of the carefully controlled material. Any leak of same will carry a signature, in which case, someone would know immediately who it was that leaked it. High risk for pitiful reward. Frank Camper's book [MK/ULTRA Secret] has added a lot which I can probably use here. I don't believe that he got it all 100% - seems to me most of his material is hearsay from a very well informed source, with him filling in the cracks on his own - but who am I to judge. However, he certainly provides some very interesting material. A lot on the brass found in the TSBD, the MC 6.5mm, the clip, etc., which I found very intriguing - but other details were more interesting - to me anyway. I wasn't able to find any contact info for him - so again, if anyone knows, feel free to shoot me an email - I'd like very much to ask him a few questions. For example - Camper has it that the shooters were provided with only 2 rounds. The first, FMJ, underpowered for short range kill - minimum impact to any possible by-standers. Less of a report. Highly accurate for such an operation at a short distance. In the event of a required second shot, a frangible round. Nervousness on the part of the shooters due to a possible expectation of a 'fire fight' - or a 'gangbang' in the event of return fire from the SS [no worries there]. He has the 'Big Indian,' David Morales [aka El Indio], running the operation in tandem with David Atlee Phillips. Morales, per Camper, is in a car on the Elm St extension. Directly following the shooting, Morales and his driver cut into the Motorcade procession and follow the Lincoln to the hospital to confirm the kill. If this is accurate, then I would have to assume that he is in the first car on the Elm St extension - the one we see in the Weigman. Traffic is allowed to flow into Dealey Plaza during the confusion - There was that incident of the vehicle that pulled onto Elm - I may have to go back to the Suspicious Vehicles thread to find that reference again. The shooters were extremely nervous that morning, and were performing some sort of mental exercises to stay detached and ready. As opposed to 3 man teams, Camper has them in 2 man teams. Shooter and Spotter - with the Spotter also acting as Radio coordinator. Additionally, along with radio contact he also has the use of hand signals. Camper only has 3 teams in total. He explains a lot of the 'evidence' of multiple shots [dent in the chrome for example] as the result of the frangible round, literally exploding and shooting off pieces in all directions. He even has the curb strike on Main [Tague] as being one of the pieces of a frangible round. I disagree with him there. Camper has Phillips in Fort Worth that morning. They were tracking Kennedy, and providing contact back to Morales as to his movements [worth noting is that joker photographed in the background of the Fort Worth motorcade with the SC Field Radio that resembles David Ferrie]. They learned that the bubbletop was not going to be up [and everyone sighs in relief] - thanks to radio contact via Love Field. At any time the operation could have been called off - like what happened in Miami. As opposed to back-up at the TradeMart [he does have a team at the TradeMart, but providing more radio contact], he has the secondary team ready to deploy back at Love Field. That is interesting - Vince Palamara has a shooter present at Love Field in his Survivor's Guilt. May have to look that one up again. In addition, we have the same information which I have posted elsewhere. Frequency jamming equipment was used to create confusion in the motorcade. Low frequency radios were used to avoid being intercepted [Morrow]. He doesn't have Looking Glass as part of the equation - but perhaps he didn't know about that. Part of the communication jamming included the DPD radio [the old 'open mic trick']. Interestingly enough, if these guys were trying to stay in constant communication in the field, there is no way that they could have from Fort Worth and Love Field to Dealey Plaza without the use of a longer range transmission device - like the Signal Corps Field Telephones. Back to Location Number 2 briefly. Just don't know. Camper has the '59 Olds and the Black Ford as recon vehicles. Their role was only to ensure that the area was secure for the shooting team behind the fence. Camper and some other info are making me wonder. Found this frame interesting. For Location Number 3 - that car is backed in a lot farther [closer to Elm] than I had attempted to replicate [load the photo, wouldja?] - lee Edited June 21, 2006 by Lee Forman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 Many thanks to all who have supported this thread. This Bronson frame thanks to Robin Unger. It appears to be the original position of the Willis family. Unfortunately, I can't tell if Mrs. Phil Willis is there, or what she was wearing. If she is the woman in the blue blouse [?] and skirt, that would simply be facinating. If not - it's a real pity that no one in history appears to know who this woman may have been, what she may have recorded or seen. Any local Dallas folks familiar with Forest Park? - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 Hmm...last post failed entirely. Enhanced and enlarged crop from z204. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 The simulated view for a shooter, taken from the corner position. - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Slattery Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Al, you're a coward. You have so little faith in your own convictions that you ruthlessly attempt to snuff out any and all dissent. Even worse, you had to tattle to the moderator like an 8-yo girl....don’t take away my right to offend, either wittingly or unwittingly. That’s what a democracy is all about. Otherwise, you’re left with the Internet’s version of a banana republic with the moderator as dictator. If my posts routinely abused and harassed others in a trollish manner, or contained frequent profanity, then he’d have every right to exile me. But we all know that’s not what's happening here. Mark Stapleton: “I feel sympathy for Lee. Look what the lone nut loonies are doing to his excellent thread.”Mark, I feel the same way, and would ordinarily apologize for sticking my own dim-witted butt into the thread. But apparently that’s the point and the strategy when someone like Lee posts an excellent thread—if you’re opposed to what he’s after or what is being said, then the best approach is to [expletive deleted] all over it. And it works: people get bored, irritated, tired, confused, and then drop out.................And why should anyone bother to stay in when confronted with gems like these? “Christ, could you be more smug and condescending? Tom dares to stray from the party line and he's not being ‘intellectual’ enough for you? As opposed to the grossly anti-intellectual, anti-US poison you spread here and at Spartacus? No wonder anti-Americanism is on the rise in Europe. “It’s the same recycled nonsense from amateurs who are not board certified or credentialed in any way. Hell, even the 1976 House investigation concluded that the (alleged) Knoll shot MISSED. But when has reason ever mattered to the buffs? “Whoop-dee-doo....stop wasting my time. “He’s good at some things, so therefore he must be good at others? Brilliant lawyers know how to perform surgery?” “Jumping out of airplanes or manning a post does not confer upon him scientific expertise. Posting his CV was a lame and desperate attempt to change the subject. “And when he didn’t know enough about a subject, he shut up. Something to ponder. “Excuse me Mr. Stalker, but how am I attacking Tom? I thought I was attacking (questioning?) Bill’s credentials and the dimwitted defense offered up by Dan. Keep your eye on the ball, Mark. “Tom, it just occurred to me that those military citations Dan posted are yours, not Bill’s. No one bothered to correct me when I ascribed them to Bill, and I just realized the mistake. Now we just have to figure out why your military background would bolster Dan’s pro-conspiracy case.” Since the later gems were based on the member’s apparent total confusion as to what he was talking about, and no one had the goodness of heart to correct him, this all speaks for itself, doesn’t it? It’s like watching the drunkest, mouthiest guy at the bar going on and on and on; he deserves to be knocked on his arse, but you always know he’s eventually gonna do something stupid or really embarrassing. And has no shame and/or can't stop when it does happen. (Keep your eye on the ball, and when you don’t know enough about a subject, just shut up. Something to ponder.) This is not, unfortunately, about someone who's totally oblivious and has no self-consciousness. It might seem that way when he writes, "If my posts routinely abused and harassed others in a trollish manner, or contained frequent profanity, then he’d have every right to exile me. But we all know that’s not what's happening here." He has to be aware that he "routinely abuses and harasses others in a trollish manner," doesn't he? That's what trolls are about, and then they deny they're doing it. So keep up the good work, Lee; you must really be onto something to have gained the honor of this kind of all-out assault. And everyone: try as much as possible to ignore this mouthy punk; he ain't worth the strain and effort we all had to endure when we squeezed out the last [expletive deleted] we took. Typical buff tactic of taking quotes out of context to prove your point. BTW, one of those barbs was directed towards my own grandfather, but why let facts get in the way? And to think Ken Rahn refuses to participate here due to its lack of seriousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Hynonen Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 (edited) Brendan Slattery Posted Yesterday, 10:08 PM QUOTE(Daniel Wayne Dunn @ Jun 21 2006, 12:03 PM) QUOTE(Brendan Slattery @ Jun 21 2006, 04:17 AM) Al, you're a coward. You have so little faith in your own convictions that you ruthlessly attempt to snuff out any and all dissent. Even worse, you had to tattle to the moderator like an 8-yo girl....don’t take away my right to offend, either wittingly or unwittingly. That’s what a democracy is all about. Otherwise, you’re left with the Internet’s version of a banana republic with the moderator as dictator. If my posts routinely abused and harassed others in a trollish manner, or contained frequent profanity, then he’d have every right to exile me. But we all know that’s not what's happening here. Mark Stapleton: “I feel sympathy for Lee. Look what the lone nut loonies are doing to his excellent thread.” Mark, I feel the same way, and would ordinarily apologize for sticking my own dim-witted butt into the thread. But apparently that’s the point and the strategy when someone like Lee posts an excellent thread—if you’re opposed to what he’s after or what is being said, then the best approach is to [expletive deleted] all over it. And it works: people get bored, irritated, tired, confused, and then drop out.................And why should anyone bother to stay in when confronted with gems like these? QUOTE “Christ, could you be more smug and condescending? Tom dares to stray from the party line and he's not being ‘intellectual’ enough for you? As opposed to the grossly anti-intellectual, anti-US poison you spread here and at Spartacus? No wonder anti-Americanism is on the rise in Europe. “It’s the same recycled nonsense from amateurs who are not board certified or credentialed in any way. Hell, even the 1976 House investigation concluded that the (alleged) Knoll shot MISSED. But when has reason ever mattered to the buffs? “Whoop-dee-doo....stop wasting my time. “He’s good at some things, so therefore he must be good at others? Brilliant lawyers know how to perform surgery?” “Jumping out of airplanes or manning a post does not confer upon him scientific expertise. Posting his CV was a lame and desperate attempt to change the subject. “And when he didn’t know enough about a subject, he shut up. Something to ponder. “Excuse me Mr. Stalker, but how am I attacking Tom? I thought I was attacking (questioning?) Bill’s credentials and the dimwitted defense offered up by Dan. Keep your eye on the ball, Mark. “Tom, it just occurred to me that those military citations Dan posted are yours, not Bill’s. No one bothered to correct me when I ascribed them to Bill, and I just realized the mistake. Now we just have to figure out why your military background would bolster Dan’s pro-conspiracy case.” Since the later gems were based on the member’s apparent total confusion as to what he was talking about, and no one had the goodness of heart to correct him, this all speaks for itself, doesn’t it? It’s like watching the drunkest, mouthiest guy at the bar going on and on and on; he deserves to be knocked on his arse, but you always know he’s eventually gonna do something stupid or really embarrassing. And has no shame and/or can't stop when it does happen. (Keep your eye on the ball, and when you don’t know enough about a subject, just shut up. Something to ponder.) This is not, unfortunately, about someone who's totally oblivious and has no self-consciousness. It might seem that way when he writes, "If my posts routinely abused and harassed others in a trollish manner, or contained frequent profanity, then he’d have every right to exile me. But we all know that’s not what's happening here." He has to be aware that he "routinely abuses and harasses others in a trollish manner," doesn't he? That's what trolls are about, and then they deny they're doing it. So keep up the good work, Lee; you must really be onto something to have gained the honor of this kind of all-out assault. And everyone: try as much as possible to ignore this mouthy punk; he ain't worth the strain and effort we all had to endure when we squeezed out the last [expletive deleted] we took. Typical buff tactic of taking quotes out of context to prove your point. BTW, one of those barbs was directed towards my own grandfather, but why let facts get in the way? And to think Ken Rahn refuses to participate here due to its lack of seriousness. Glad to see you consider this forum a serious one. Edited June 22, 2006 by Antti Hynonen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Raymond Carroll Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Typical buff tactic of taking quotes out of context to prove your point. BTW, one of those barbs was directed towards my own grandfather, but why let facts get in the way? And to think Ken Rahn refuses to participate here due to its lack of seriousness. I don't know anything about your grandfather, and I hope he rests in peace, but you, sir, are an idiot and I support Al Carriers request that you be removed from this forum. Al and I have disagreed in the past, but I have never doubted that Al is a serious researcher, and I hope he would say the same about me. Ken Rahn, as most people know by now, is one of the biggest idiots that has ever spoken about the JFK assassination. His main claim to fame has been supporting Dr. Vincent Guinn's theory of Comparative bullet lead analysis (CBLA) now known as CABLA CADABLA. Even Robert Blakey, who was once Guinn's chief proponent, has now admitted that Guinn's CBLA theories are nothing more than junk science. The FBI has been forced to abandon this stupid theory, because the courts have told them to get real. Believe me when I say that members of this forum are missing nothing by the absence of Ken Rahn. Dr. Rahn is an oceanographer who is completely at sea when it comes to the JFK assassination. I would offer this rule of reasoning from Charles Sanders Pierce, America's greatest philosopher: 135. Upon this first, and in one sense this sole, rule of reason, that in order to learn you must desire to learn, and in so desiring not be satisfied with what you already incline to think, there follows one corollary which itself deserves to be inscribed upon every wall of the city of philosophy: Do not block the way of inquiry. Mr. Slattery clearly seeks to block the way of inquiry, and accordingly should be sent to post his nonsense on the McAdams forum and banned from this forum, which is designed for serious inquiry. John Simkin, please take note. I know you love cricket, but there is a limit. No one has the right to cry "fire" in a crowded theatre without good evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendan Slattery Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I don't know anything about your grandfather, and I hope he rests in peace, but you, sir, are an idiot and I support Al Carriers request that you be removed from this forum. Al and I have disagreed in the past, but I have never doubted that Al is a serious researcher, and I hope he would say the same about me. Never claimed Al wasn't a "serious" researcher; he (errantly) leveled that charge against me. Please try to pay attention. Ken Rahn, as most people know by now, is one of the biggest idiots that has ever spoken about the JFK assassination. His main claim to fame has been supporting Dr. Vincent Guinn's theory of Comparative bullet lead analysis (CBLA) now known as CABLA CADABLA. Even Robert Blakey, who was once Guinn's chief proponent, has now admitted that Guinn's CBLA theories are nothing more than junk science. The FBI has been forced to abandon this stupid theory, because the courts have told them to get real. Really? His "only" claim to fame? And Blakey's doubts are supposed to put me off? Is he infallible or something? I like Blakey, but he's out to lunch on his mob hunch. A lot of people hated Kennedy, but they didn't kill him. Believe me when I say that members of this forum are missing nothing by the absence of Ken Rahn. Dr. Rahn is an oceanographer who is completely at sea when it comes to the JFK assassination. Ray made a pun! Mr. Slattery clearly seeks to block the way of inquiry, and accordingly should be sent to post his nonsense on the McAdams forum and banned from this forum, which is designed for serious inquiry. When your starting template is "The WC was wrong and nothing you can say will change my mind," you can kiss "serious inquiry" goodbye. John Simkin, please take note. I know you love cricket, but there is a limit. No one has the right to cry "fire" in a crowded theatre without good evidence. Another coward has joined the ranks. People like Ray are always complaining that the US is disintegrating into a fascist society, yet they're the first ones to pounce on speech they don't like. The irony--and shame- escapes them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Raymond Carroll Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Another coward has joined the ranks. People like Ray are always complaining that the US is disintegrating into a fascist society, yet they're the first ones to pounce on speech they don't like. The irony--and shame- escapes them. Well, name calling is wonderful. Actually, there are no people quite like Ray. I am a completely unique individual person, just like everyone else. Goodbye, Mr. Slattery and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Turner Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 May this thread now be returned to its original purpose? The gutter is neither a dignfied, nor comfortable place to reside Gentlemen. Lee please continue with your presentation, some of us are watching with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Eugene B. Connolly Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Would it be possible for contributors to use different coloured type so we can see who exactly is (attempting) to attack/insult/belittle/put down/dis//bitch/humiliate/denigrate/abuse/wind up/ chain yank/get up the nose of/ whom? I think it's only fair. EBC Btw Lee, am I mistaken or are you the only one in here who is actually engaged in constructive research? Also ref your 'Why is the corner interesting?' query is it because (I can see) there's ( what looks like) a policeman in there? Best regards and keep on truckin'! Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hmm...last post failed entirely.Enhanced and enlarged crop from z204. - lee Lee. for the last time ... please look at the Dorman film for it shows this area from above and there is simply no one there. The space between the 2' tall shrubs and the wall is in clear view as Elsie's camera pans over it. So unless one claims her film has been altered, then the chance of a shooter being in the shrubs is zero. Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hmm...last post failed entirely. Enhanced and enlarged crop from z204. - lee Lee. for the last time ... please look at the Dorman film for it shows this area from above and there is simply no one there. The space between the 2' tall shrubs and the wall is in clear view as Elsie's camera pans over it. So unless one claims her film has been altered, then the chance of a shooter being in the shrubs is zero. Bill Miller Unfortunately it's just not enough to go on Bill - for me anyway. Here you can see Dorman's initial pass over the area of interest - the program reduces the quality sadly. Rosemary Willis running at the bottom left, obscured by the sprocket holes. I would be more comfortable with an actual scan of the original film stock. Same for the z-footage. Rosemary [Willis] Roach in her Texas Monthly interview.... If you ask me how many I think there were, I really think that there were six, but I heard four and I'll tell you why: the first one, you know I'm right across from Zapruder. I'm wherever the limousine is. It's almost like I could...I'm right there. Anyway, the first shot rang out. It was to the front of me, and to the right of me, up high. The second shot that I heard came across from my right shoulder. By that time, the limousine had already moved further down. And that shot came across my shoulder. And the next one, right after that, still came from the right but not from as far back, it was up some. Still behind me, but not as far back as the other one. And the next one that came was from the grassy knoll and I saw the smoke coming through the trees, into the air.... Fragments of his head ascended into the air, and from my vision, focal point, the smoke and the fragments, you know, everything met. I mean, there's no question in my mind what I saw or what I heard. Anyway, the first shot rang out. It was to the front of me, and to the right of me, up high. DalTex? The second shot that I heard came across from my right shoulder. By that time, the limousine had already moved further down. And that shot came across my shoulder. Peristyle Corner? And the next one, right after that, still came from the right but not from as far back, it was up some. Still behind me, but not as far back as the other one. TSBD? And the next one that came was from the grassy knoll and I saw the smoke coming through the trees, into the air.... Fragments of his head ascended into the air, and from my vision, focal point, the smoke and the fragments, you know, everything met. I mean, there's no question in my mind what I saw or what I heard. Grassy Knoll from behind Picket Fence? The so called 'AB Smith' version. I may try to do a better job using that version, since I have better source material since the time I created that GIF. - lee Hmmm - looks like you have to click on that Dorman to get it running.... - lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 (edited) 'AB Smith' version. I took the liberty of removing the worst of the blurred frames. Also, I got a bit tired of trying to follow the jitter, so it drops down a bit halfway through. I tried to use Phil as my stabilization point. Theory He wouldn't have moved at all, but some little girl just ran in between him and his target, as he is trying to keep his scope sighted for a headshot. You may need to click on it to open it in a new window. - lee PS - too big and wouldn't load. I just removed a few more frames - more of the blurry ones. Go boy...load up. Edited June 22, 2006 by Lee Forman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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