Shooter, Radioman, Spotter

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I'm not going to answer that question, Bill. You know why? Because I'm not qualified. And I have a sneaking suspicion that you aren't either.

Brendan,

I hope this wasn't your best answer. So you know ... there is a saying that says that everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but no one is entitled to be wrong about the facts ... for without knowing the facts - your opinion is of no value. And to address the childish response you made concerning my expertise ...

Bill Miller

It is a long-established rule of law that an expert witness does not have to be qualified just by virtue of formal training. Anyone who has studied a subject in sufficient depth may be qualified as an expert witness, and this is true in both state and federal courts. The courts are well aware that, just to take one example, some of the greatest discoveries in astronomy have been made by amateurs with no academic qualifications.

I do not know what Bill Millar's formal qualificatios are, but I have no doubt that any unbiased judge in America would admit him as an expert witness on the film and photo evidence related to the JFK assassination.

I doubt that they would say the same about Mr. Slattery.

[Brendan Slattery]

Well, that's because you're a dope. Did you enjoy it when "photo expert" Groden got his comeuppance at the OJ civil suit? I sure did. Bottom line: Miller is not an authority on anything, but will vainly continue to pass himself off as one. Fraud.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Well, that's because you're a dope.

Actually, I am not.

Did you enjoy it when "photo expert" Groden got his comeuppance at the OJ civil suit? I sure did.

Actually, I did. I have no more doubt than you do that OJ was a double murderer.

Bottom line: Miller is not an authority on anything, but will vainly continue to pass himself off as one. Fraud.

Now that, for your information, is what is known as a complete non-sequitor. I have said it before, Mr. Slattery, and I hope I don't have to say it again, but you have proved yourself on this forum to be a complete idiot.

[Pat Speer]

Well, that's because you're a dope. Did you enjoy it when "photo expert" Groden got his comeuppance at the OJ civil suit? I sure did. Bottom line: Miller is not an authority on anything, but will vainly continue to pass himself off as one. Fraud.

Brendan, the term "expert' shouldn't hold much sway over a JFK researcher. Why? Because one set of experts said a bullet hole was at the base of Kennedy's skull, and one set of experts said it was at the top of the skull. Another expert from NASA testified that Kennedy was leaning forward in the car until he was first hit, then sat up, only to get hit in the head by a subsequent shot. EVERYONE who's seen the Zapruder film knows this did not happen. Yet another expert testified before congress with the autopsy photo of Kennedy's head wound upside down. In short, the cult of expertise is like any other religion--it can make you feel better about yourself whilst simultaneously blinding you to what's really goin' on.

Edited June 20, 2006 by Pat Speer

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Well, that's because you're a dope. Did you enjoy it when "photo expert" Groden got his comeuppance at the OJ civil suit? I sure did. Bottom line: Miller is not an authority on anything, but will vainly continue to pass himself off as one. Fraud.

Brendan, the term "expert' shouldn't hold much sway over a JFK researcher. Why? Because one set of experts said a bullet hole was at the base of Kennedy's skull, and one set of experts said it was at the top of the skull. Another expert from NASA testified that Kennedy was leaning forward in the car until he was first hit, then sat up, only to get hit in the head by a subsequent shot. EVERYONE who's seen the Zapruder film knows this did not happen. Yet another expert testified before congress with the autopsy photo of Kennedy's head wound upside down. In short, the cult of expertise is like any other religion--it can make you feel better about yourself whilst simultaneously blinding you to what's really goin' on.

Why? Because one set of experts said a bullet hole was at the base of Kennedy's skull, and one set of experts said it was at the top of the skull.

And, is is quite unlikely that either "set of experts" is incorrect!

Unfortunately, we do not have access to the physical skull of JFK as did the autopsy surgeons, of whom it is most unlikely that they could not physically identify and measure the location of the bullet entrance through the skull which they found.

Especially since they gave the exact dimension with the bullet/projectile created in the skull bone as well as physically observing the beveling on the interior table of the skull bone.

And, one must also recall that there were considerably more than just the autopsy surgeons present who also observed this entry wound.

As to the HSCA, their ONLY evidence upon which to base their decision was the X-rays as taken prior to the initial stage of the autopsy. Which, I might add, were intentionally withheld from the WC evidence.

With this, there is also little doubt as to the accuracy of the placement of the entry wound to the back of the head which the HSCA observed.

There is truthfully not that much which is difficult about this.

1. The EOP entry ABSOLUTELY was observed by all present at the autopsy, yet, this ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT be the entry point for the shot fired at Z-312/313, due to the position of JFK's head and the downward angle of fire.

Any shot fired from the sixth floor window, on the downward angle, striking in the vicinity of the EOP, would have had to exit somewhere in the facial area of JFK in the vincinty of the nasal cavity and/or in the vicinity of the eyes.

No such exit exists!

And, since the bone of the skull has never been known to completely deflect a 160 grain copper-jacketed, 2000+fps bullet directly upwards after impact, then this pretty well eliminates the EOP entry as being the point of entry for a bullet at Z-312/313.

2. However, a bullet entry into the cowlick area (4-inches/10cm higher than the EOP entry as determined by the HSCA) , fired on a downward angle, would place the downward angle of fire in close correlation

with the downward angle of the top of JFK's head. Thus any bullet striking in the Cowlick vicinity, would/should also attempt to exit out the top/center of the skull, just as the bullet did.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nobody's WRONG, if everybody's Right!

Tom

P.S. That the EOP entry was actually at the edge of the hairline on the neck, as well as the fact that the bullet "tunnelled" up through the soft flesh of the neck to strike the the skull in the vicinity of the EOP, as well as the elongated nature of the entry wound through the skull, should provide more than sufficient evidence in which one could determine the position of JFK's head at the time of impact of this shot.

Unless of course they expect that the shot was fired by some UNICORN and/or other mythhological creature who was either hiding in a manhole or behind the stockade fence.

P.P.S. "UP" and to the left as indicated by Dr. Boswell in his arrow drawn on the autopsy descriptive sheet, can also be "down" when the head is in the correct position.

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol17_0036a.htm

Which by the way also explains the "ragged slanting 15mm X 6mm" entry wound through the skull.

Of course, such a shot, striking in the edge of the hairline, would no doubt have to had also struck some portion of the coat!

Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Chief Justice, may it please the Commission, I would like to have identified for the record three articles on which I have placed Commission Exhibits Nos. 393 being the coat worn by the President, 394 being the shirt, and 395 being the President's tie, and at this time move for their admission into evidence.

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir. This exhibit is a grey suit coat stated to have been worn by the President on the day of his death. Situated to the right of the midline high in the back portion of the coat is a defect, one margin of which is semicircular.

Situated above it just below the collar is an additional defect. It is our opinion that the lower of these defects corresponds essentially with the point of entrance of the missile at Point C on Exhibit 385.

Mr. SPECTER - How about the upper one of the collar you have described, does that go all the way through?

Commander HUMES - Yes, sir; it goes all the way through. It is not--wait a minute, excuse me it is not so clearly a puncture wound as the one below.

Mr. SPECTER - Does the upper one go all the way through in the same course?

Commander HUMES - No.

Mr. SPECTER - Through the inner side as it went through the outer side?

Commander HUMES - No, in an irregular fashion.

Commander HUMES - That is approximately correct, sir. This defect, I might say, continues on through the material.

Attached to this garment is the memorandum which states that one half of the area around the hole which was presented had been removed by experts, I believe, at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and also that a control area was taken from under the collar, so it is my interpretation that this defect at the top of this garment is the control area taken by the Bureau, and that the reason the lower defect is not more circle or oval in outline is because a portion of that defect has been removed apparently for physical examinations.

"the memorandum" aka/note from Mom, has now disappeared from the National Archives, and unlike those here who resolve issues by the "Amazing Kresgin" method of problem resolution, I did take the time and effort to locate and speak with ALL of the FBI personell who worked in the Lab and had access to and examined the clothing of JFK.

Guess What?-------------------------- that a control area was taken from under the collar, happens to be another of the WC "slight/sleight of hand tricks".

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Sorry to be the one to dissapoint you! However, the U.S. Secret Service as well as the FBI had this pretty well wrapped up before the end of 1963.

And, unlike some podunk cops, I am neither under the assumption that I am more qualified, have more experience, and/or access to more information and resources than did the SS & FBI have available to them to resolve the issues.

I am however intelligent enough to recognize that the US Secret Service as well as the FBI, easily had the resources to quickly resolved the issues of the assassination.

Therefore, anyone on this forum (or any other forum for that matter) who is under the assumption that the US Secret Service and the FBI could not resolve the issues of the assassination, and that "THEY" (some podunk cop who claims great sniper training and crime investigation knowledge) with all of their great "CANYON SHOOT/mythological SCOUT SNIPER SCHOOL" training, as well as their city cop training, possess more qualifications to resolve the issues of the assassination than the FBI/SS, merely demonstrate their complete ignorance of the capabilities of the Department of Justice as well as the US Treasury Department.

The nice (& easy, I might add) part about debting with the "Multiple Assassin" groupings is the simple fact that to date, absolutely no one has demonstrated a single forensic; ballistic; pathological; and/or physical fact which would support shots striking JFK from any direction other than the rear, and above.

Not to mention the fact that few if any can even agree as to the exact firing position of the great mythological multiple assassin.

Nevertheless, it is always good for a laugh!

Mr. Purvis,

Nice to know I can make you laugh. By the way, what do you bring to the table to qualify you in interpreting anything? You are not worthy of my time, even though I am a podunk cop. At least I have a title. You have never addressed my issues, only attacked me. And you have only attacked me with words and not attacked my credentials. If you would like to do that, then maybe I will discuss this with you intelligently. I will not get into the name calling as you are looking for a fight, which is typical of those who do not have ammunition for an intelligent debate.

Al

which is typical of those who do not have ammunition for an intelligent debate.

Al

Were it that I were debating, and/or debating with someone who demonstrated an intelligent capability, as well as the ability to conduct factual research, then there would be little problems.

Come on "Big Al", inquiring minds want to know about all of the evaluation of the evidence you have conducted, as well as what new revelations you can prove.

I do recall some time ago, on Lancer, when I first posted information relative to the weight loss to a bullet merely from having been fired, and that had not been taken into consideration in accountability for the accountable weight of CE399, that you "jumped" in and made some statement to the effect that "everyone" knew that a bullet lost weight.

Nope! Big Al, everyone did not know that! And not only that, as of then, and as of this date, to my knowledge, I remain the only person who has taken the time and effort to weigh a WCC Carcano bullet prior to firing it, fire and recover it, and thus re-weigh the bullet to demonstrate this.

Which if recalled, amounted to 0.63 grains of weight loss from being fired.

Exactly where were you during all of this knowledge gathering, which I did way back in the early 90"s?

Something which even you may have been qualified to do, yet apparantly did not have the understanding of ballistics to even take the time and conduct the test to present the FACTS!.

And, this type of demonstration regarding your lack of factual research could go on, and on, and on.

You fully demonstrated your own lack of knowledge as well as inability to research a subject matter when you "signed" on as one of the worshipers of "Dangerous Dan Marvin".

When I saw this, on Lancer, there was little doubt as to your lack of qualifications in virtually anything, including even the most basic research capability.

You remind me of a used car salesman, who because he claims to have been selling "quality" cars for 30 years, is therefore trustworthy and should be believed in regards to the quality and condition of some car which is attempting to be sold.

Go back to playing with your paintball guns Al!

Fortunately, there are those who visit this forum who understand the necessity of FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

With the information which I have progressively been providing, it is now unlikely that the facts of the JFK assassination shooting will remain lost and/or confused for too much longer.

In that regards, History will hopefully correct itself, and when it does, there will be many who, provided that they are still living, will want to change their names and hide for having expoused and/or believed some of the nonsense surrounding this subject.

In event that it would appear that this "Correct History" has not occurred prior to my death, then rest assured that it will be engraved on my headstone" "WAS NEVER SO STUPID TO BELIEVE IN MULTIPLE ASSASSINS OR BODY KIDNAPPINGS", in order that the living world will always know exactly what position I took.

You, as well as many others, have ranted on for years about the "impossibility" of the shots in Dealy Plaza, without even taking the time and effort to determine if the WC representation was factual.

Yet, you continue to rant and rave about the WC Lie!

It does not take even a smart or intelligent person to recognize that the WC is not a factual presentation of the evidence surrounding the assassination.

It does however require a little effort as well as research ability to demonstrate the absolute error of the WC manipulations of the facts.

None of which I might add, have ever been forthcoming from you!

At least, over on alt.assassination, there is one individual who demonstrated the research capability to recognize that the Z312/313 headshot WAS NOT the last shot fired in the shooting sequence.

And although he is still under the impression that the third/last/final shot was not fired from the TSDB, at least he is that much closer to the facts and truth than the great "Al Carrier", podunk cop extraordnaire!

And, I might add, this person has little if any training and/or experience in police investigation and/or shooting/and or weapons.

So Al! Continue to "blow smoke" up your on rectal orifice, since you apparantly have convinced yourself that you know something on this subject matter.

And, by all means continue to blow it up those who have no better sense than to accept it as if it came from some reliable source.

Which I might add, is one of the reasons that few have managed to even follow the evidence trail as they have become far too lost in searching for the BS which you and the Body Kidnappers continue to foster.

And in that regards, those few of us who like to stick with the known facts, have little to worry about in the way of you and your followers ever coming upon the facts of the assassination as well as what the WC lie is truly about, as well as the WHY? of Jack Ruby shooting LHO.

Lastly, I would remind those of "your followers", that the last time that I checked, you were merely a follower of a retired QUARTERMASTER SUPPLY CORPS, retired LTC, who was attempting to follow suit with the nonsense of conspiracies surrounding this subject.

Therefore, I am reminded of the old saying about the "blind being led by the blind", as well as the numerous "dumb & dumber" sayings.

Either statement of which I will personally pay for the cost of having engraved on your headstone, when History corrects the many misconceptions as regards the shots fired in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63.

Mr. Purvis,

I will not get into your level of discussions because you discuss nothing other than name calling and attacking persons without actually looking to see who you are attacking. If you are bright enough, check with my state academy to see if I hold the credentials in LE that I claim to. Check with the first judicial district court in my state to see if I am certified as an expert witness in ballistics and weapons. Check with my department to see what my background in LE is. Check with any soldier who has been through the training to see if I am accurate. If you are unwilling to do that, then you are simply spouting venom at me due to your lack of intelligence and I feel sorry for you for that.

I have paid many prices in my life in both LE and in the military and you are not worthy of my time. It is sad that so many exchange with you and allow you to spout your ignorant venom at them when they question your rediculous theories and ask simple questions.

You are crude and ignorant and I am surprised that you have an audience at all. I would not now put it past you to have posted as me in the exchange prior to this before I had John change my access code. You obviously live in too small a world and I would suggest you get a positive hobby.

I will not respond to you any more and others who question my credibility can check on me as it is all public.

Al

I will not respond to you any more and others who question my credibility can check on me as it is all public.

Al

Al:

Your "credibility" came into question the minute that I first read some of your postings over on JFK Lancer some years ago.

In that regards, my initial interpretation was that you were either grossly ignorant of the facts of the assassination, or else merely grossly ignorant.

After having observed your lap-dog worship of Dangerous Dan, as well as other demonstrations as to how little you actually know on the subject matter of the JFK assassination, I have come to the realization that you obviously fall into both categories.

Why don't you cease to blow smoke and present some factual evidence here. Or, is it locked up in the same Safety Deposit Box with all of your other "secret" stuff which protects you and your family from those who would like to keep you quiet?

I would suppose that you had best also lock up your laptop from now on as well, in order to prevent those "unknown" persons from utilizing your name and continueing to make it appear that you are a dumbass.

So, not unlike many others, why don't you presents some facts?

Why don't you present some "original" research which is supported by facts?

Why don't you tell all of us about the "Mythological Marathon Scout Sniper School?

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your great duties as an MP in the U.S. Army.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of your education and schooling in recognized schools which deal with forensics and pathology.

Why don't you tell all of us about all of the personal research you have conducted in which you located and spoke with some of the "First Hand" persons such as the autopsy surgeons; FBI Agents: Parkland personnel;.

There are no doubt those on this forum who "follow" your BS, just as there were followers of Jim Jones; Charles Manson; etc; etc; etc;, without requiring any demonstration of factual research and/or research ability on your part.

Rest assured that I am not one of them, and not only that, I have a pretty good ability to recognize the BS which you keep attempting to sell on this forum as well as elsewhere.

You apparantly do not even possess the intelligence and/or reading comprehension and research ability to recognize the shooting sequence as it occured in Dealy Plaza, even with multitudes of witnesses telling that the delay between shot# 1 and shot#2 was considerably longer than between shot#2 and shot#3.

Which, would have informed ANY COMPETENT INVESTIGATIVE person as to where to look for the third/last/final shot fired in the assassination shot sequence.

You, Al, as a Police Officer (Lt.), should possess the investigative ability to review the witness testimony as well as the FACTUAL ballistic, forensic; and pathological evidence, and derive a logical conclusion based on the evidence.

Instead, you launch off onto your "Canyon Shoot" BS/Scenario, which happens to be founded in absolutely ZERO basis in fact, and not unlike some used car salesman offer your 30+ years of experience as evidence that the Multiple assassin scenario is factual.

The fact is, you are factually ignorant of the facts!

As well as apparantly being unable to read, research, and understand what lies in front of your nose.

So! Remember this Al. History is about to correct itself as regards the facts of the JFK Assassination, and when it does, there will be many who will be labeled a complete "DUMBASS".

Rest assured that I am willing to place my reputation on the line and risk haveing such permanently stenciled on my gravestone, or else I would not be providing the information in my possession.

Therefore, might I recommend that you take a look at how you want to be labeled.

Mr. Purvis,

I know I said I would not respond to you but you seem to be getting a following and that is rather sad. And you keep outdoing yourself with rudeness and namecalling, which is typical of those who are clueless in what they are spouting off about.

Where exactly did you get your training in investigative skills? How many years have you dedicated to investigating crimes? What interview and interrogation courses have you taken? How many crime scenes have you been responsible for investigating and preserving? How many crime scene photographs have you taken and what evidence have you collected in order to preserve a crime scene for court purposes? And who has certified you as a firearms instructor or armorer? Were you at Marathon Station 25 years ago to know that they did not have a scout sniper school qualification staging there?/Or is it simply that you can find no record of it that proves it wasn't?

Are you aware of the process of establishing the relevance and/or credibility of evidence? Are you aware of the process of determining the accuracy of witness detail and recall? Have you heard of the term "critical incident stress" or "critical incident recall" and how it applies to witness recall? Have you studied how audio recall can be effected by visual observation and on location of the witness to the crime? Are you aware of how witness recall can also be effected by manner of interviewing and exposure to other wits prior to establishing their testimony?

These are basic 101 areas. My background is an open book, and you as a researcher and expert as you claim should have no problem verifying me and what I am stating. I would be careful on using the term "dumbass".

I am coming off a vacation and go back to work to run my shift starting Sunday night. If I don't respond to your obnoxious reply, it will be for one of two reasons; (1) I will not have time (2) It will not be worth my time.

Al

I know I said I would not respond to you but you seem to be getting a following and that is rather sad.

Actually Al;

Just perhaps there is developing a "following" of persons who now are beginning to recognize the quite simple forensic; ballistic; pathological; and physical facts of the assassination, and in so doing, are also beginning to recognize that you have been blowing smoke and BS.

you keep outdoing yourself with rudeness and namecalling,

Just my nature! I have always been quite rude; crude; and generally socially unacceptable when dealing with ignorance, as well as ignorant persons.

Hell, I even dislike myself when I do something stupid.

Just remember! You are the one who started this off, long ago, and therefore you are also the one who

has "painted" yourself into this corner without even demonstrating the investigative capability to determine that the Z-312/313 headshot was ABSOLUTELY NOT the final shot fired in the sequence of the three shots fired from the TSDB.

And, not only did I, with all of my lack of qualifications, easily recognize this, but I also knew where to look to find the evidence necessary to fully support this fact.

Meanwhile, you, "Great CSI"/Scout Sniper/Follower of Brother "Dangerous Dan Marvin" have quite obviously given little attention to the witness testimony; determination as to the location of these witnesses; correlation of their testimony with that information of Dealy Plaza which is necessary in order to accurately place JFK at the time of the shots, and for that matter, completely failed to provide a single iota of factual evidence related to the assassination.

Thereafter, it is also quite obvious that you have also completely failed to attempt to study and understand the forensic and pathological evidence as well.

So Al! How about "amazing" us with all of the separate and independent research which you have conducted!

How about describing for us all of your discussions with personnel in the FBI Lab who conducted testing of the JFK evidence.

How about describing for us all of the discussion which you have had with anyone associated with the autopsy of JFK.

How about describing for us all the discussions which you have had with anyone from Parkland Hospital.

How about describing for us all of the work which you have done as regards providing "abolute proof" of the phoniness of the WC re-enactment of the assassination.

How about providing anything, anything at all, of true relevance in which it can be independently checked out and verified as factual information related to the events in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63!

I would be careful on using the term "dumbass".

Us "good ole boys" of the South have multiple sayings. One of which is: "If the shoe fits, wear it"!

Edited June 20, 2006 by Thomas H. Purvis

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Tom, it just occurred to me that those military citations Dan posted are yours, not Bill's. No one bothered to correct me when I ascribed them to Bill, and I just realized the mistake. Now we just have to figure out why your military background would bolster Dan's pro-conspiracy case.

Well! Since my military record also stated that I am a qualified "Rotary Wing" Pilot, guess that I should also claim that as well.

It only took me about two years to convince the US Army that I was not, and never wanted to be a pilot, and that they really needed to talk with "Thomas D. Purvis" if they wanted the one that flew helicopters.

Tom

P.S. Which also demonstrates just how well the Military kept up with this info, as during the exact same period that I was reportedly at Ft. Rucker, AL, attending Rotary Wing Flight School, (1968), the "real" me happened to be somewhere around Kontum City in South Vietnam.

Kind of like the "Two Oswald's" I would suppose!

[Bill Miller]

Well, that's because you're a dope. Did you enjoy it when "photo expert" Groden got his comeuppance at the OJ civil suit? I sure did. Bottom line: Miller is not an authority on anything, but will vainly continue to pass himself off as one. Fraud.

Brendan, How much of a subject do you feel that you know about before forming an opinion? Groden never said that the other pictures that were taken of OJ at the game had been doctored, but rather the one photo that he testified to had been altered. It is possible that the lone photographer did play with his photo in hopes of being well compensated for his efforts, but with the second set of photos being presented as evidence - it would still make OJ appear guilty even if Robert was correct about the one photo and its owners manipulation of it. And if Groden was in error, then it certainly wouldn't mean that he was in error on other matters. No one is always wrong!

And so you know this ... I have never tried to pass myself off as anything. In fact, I have posted on this forum that I do not feel that I am a photo expert. However, I do know the photogrqaphical record quite well and have studied it about as mush as anyone. So when you claim the opposite as my postings concerning my qualifications, then it makes you appear to not know what you are talking about, thus you are passing yourself as someone who has their facts straight when you acyually do not.

Bill Miller

[Lee Forman]

Dynamics again - for Location Number One.

In the Dorman, following the shooting, we have an unknown number of individuals who appear to be searching the area of the corner of the concrete structure at the North Peristyle bushes. There was a hedge in back and some sort of red bushes in front of the hedge running along the structure there. These individuals, seen in Dorman, would be standing in the bushes, as far as I can tell. I can't match the perspective, since I wasn't on the 4th floor. This comparison, at top left, was made from a photo taken across the street. I removed the saturation on the crop of a Dorman frame, top right, so you can see these folks easier. One appears to be a child [3]. The 2 men at left, as per the uncropped animated GIF, are watching the activity [oops - not in the crop]. The woman in the blue top [4] seems to be running to join the individuals [1 & 2?] at the corner in the bushes.

Can't help but wonder if this isn't the Willis family - but no clue. I don't ever recall having read anything about such an incident anywhere, where folks were searching the bushes after the shooting - aside from Joe Marshall Smith across the street. I was hoping to find Rosemary Willis to enquire, but never managed to get in touch with her. If anyone has a line on Rosemary Willis, feel free to pass this bit along to her for comment. Her comment about a shot coming from over her right shoulder was intriguing. As posted previously elsewhere, the fact that none of the 23+ witnesses standing opposite on the North side of Elm, as seen in the Croft photo have ever been identified [with the possible exception of F. Lee Mudd] - even more intriguing.

As per an earlier post - the only references I have seen which could shed light on this oddity are a) the statement made by Joe Marshall Smith in which a woman told him that 'They are shooting the President from the bushes!' and the Psychiatric report on Weitzman, where his Doctor says that he saw 2 men crouched in the bushes that were not there after the shooting. On the first, the woman encountered by Smith was in hysterics - as per his account. Perhaps he searched the wrong bushes. On the second, doesn't even buy a cup of coffee.

Anyone know any more about this location or references to shooters crouched in bushes?

By the time of the 1964 FBI re-enactment, these bushes were cut back. The only record I have been able to find for this area is the Z-film, the Dorman, and the view from behind the retaining wall of the agents looking at the lunch bag on the bench - but the area is not entirely visible, and that was hours later. Hughes pans over in this direction, but doesn't capture the area. The FBI re-enactment photo captures the area, but 2 months later.

Bottom crop from z202 [tnx to RU], slightly enhanced.

- lee

Edited June 20, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Lee Forman]

redundant post deleted...

Edited June 20, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Lee Forman]

redundant post deleted

Edited June 20, 2006 by Lee Forman

[Lee Forman]

Dorman frames, stabilized somewhat and lightened slightly.

[Mark Stapleton]

Lee,

Re location #1--What was the height and width of the hedge and bushes in '63 to your knowledge? I can't tell from the images posted.

Also, any more info on the other pictures James Altgens took on the day? I assume many were not photos of DP.

[Lee Forman]

Lee,

Re location #1--What was the height and width of the hedge and bushes in '63 to your knowledge? I can't tell from the images posted.

Also, any more info on the other pictures James Altgens took on the day? I assume many were not photos of DP.

Hi Mark.

The hedges are about the same I believe - here's an ugly demonstration of the difference in 2 months. A bit of a lousy job - the hedge is only some 25" high or so. The red bushes appear to have been spaced, and some were considerably higher than the hedge behind them.

A good resource:

http://wiretap.area.com/Gopher/Library/Fri...ry/jfk-foto.lis

275. Willis, Phillip L.

PC: Snapped 18 important slides of the murder scene and

its aftermath which he sells commercially. Slide number

five was taken after the first apparent shot hit JFK and

coordinates with Zapruder frames 202-206. After commer-

cial publication brought them into public view, the WC

interviewed Willis. Weisberg [532, 1075] provides indis-

pensable commentary upon the evidentiary value of the

slides and the relationship of them to the WC's investi-

gation.

One of the photos that was not included in Phil's set he had for sale can be found in Trask's book. I believe I wiped it out with a system failure. It is the one that shows the DalTex in the background, with a few folks milling about - one that resembles Lee Oswald in a suit, from the rear. I believe he had a total of 12 on his set - confirmed. 12. So with Trask's book, POTP, a total of 13 were published - I don't know about the other 5. Anybody?

Mr. WILLIS. I proceeded down the street and didn't take any other pictures instantly, because the three shots were fired approximately about 2 seconds apart, and I knew my little daughters were running along beside the Presidential car, and I was immediately concerned about them, and I was screaming for them to come back, and they didn't hear me. But I was concerned about them immediately, because I knew something tragic had happened, and the shots didn't ring out long like a rifle shot that is fired into midair in a distance. I knew it hit something, and it couldn't have been a firecracker or anything like that, so it impressed me, I remember, and after I found my daughters, I saw they were heading back toward their mother.

Mr. LIEBELER. Where was she?

Mr. WILLIS. She was back in the crowd looking through this concrete structure. How do you refer to that?

Mr. LIEBELER. Well, your wife was back closer toward the intersection of Main Street and Houston Street?

Mr. WILLIS. No; it is a very short distance when you stand in here. No; that is the one across the street--no; here she was. She was in between Main and Elm Streets, but real near Elm Street. In fact, she was only a few feet back from my daughters. She wasn't more than 40 feet from where the President was hit.

Mr. LIEBELER. So she was toward the triple underpass from the concrete structure on Dealey Plaza?

Mr. WILLIS. She was inside the concrete structure looking through an opening.

Mr. LIEBELER. Looking toward the triple underpass?

Mr. WILLIS. Toward the Texas School Book Depository where she had a clear view, and there were surprisingly few people there at that time---at that moment--and none in between her and the street to block her vision.

This is also for Robin Unger. An interesting study of crowd dynamics, Warren Testimony and examination of footage. Robin located the Willis family where they started out - corner of Main and Houston. They ran after the motorcade. As per Gary Mack, Linda Willis, Phil's older daughter of the two, had on a gold dress, which is now on display on the 6th floor. In the z-footage, you can see what would appear to be Linda Willis, standing on the curb on the south side, close to the corner of Elm and Houston, with what looks like an elderly woman. Who is she? As per Phil, it's not Mom. Mom is behind the Pergola - I assume watching through one of the large portals.

But then if we watch Dorman, we see 2 individuals running around the corner of the pool. Rosemary Willis is one - she is trailing behind a woman in a blue shirt and skirt that has a camera. The woman slows down while Rosemary keeps running. Now Lady in Blue with the camera just happens to be the same woman who continues towards the corner, where it seems that Rosemary is standing. Linda Willis claims to have run along after the motorcade also, as per her Warren testimony - yet we see no such thing in the Zapruder film. She claimed to have stopped opposite the Stemmons Sign, and saw Kennedy's headshot - that would place her next to the Brehm's roughly. So who is the lady in blue - why would Rosemary have been running with her, and why would the lady in blue continue to the corner where Rosemary is standing. Only Rosemary or Linda could supply the answers I guess. To the best of my knowledge, this woman is unidentified. But something is really odd about the whole routine.

View from the corner, while squatting in the bushes. If I was the SS riding on the Queen Mary - I'd be focused on the umbrella man, the man with the camera at the '56 Pontiac, and the sounds of shots coming from the TSBD. Then there's the odd piece in the Brennan interview about smoking boxes, etc.

Mr. BELIN. Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal?

Mr. McCLOY. You are still under oath, you realize.

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Have you ever worked for the Union Terminal Co. in Dallas?

Mr. BRENNAN. I have not.

Mr. BELIN. Did you ever state to anyone that you heard shots from opposite the Texas School Book Depository and saw smoke and paper wadding come out of boxes on a slope below the railroad trestle at the time of the assassination? Did you ever say that or that, in substance, to anyone?

Mr. BRENNAN. I did not.

Mr. BELIN. That is all.

Mr. BRENNAN. Is there another Howard Brennan

It's a great location - so long as little girls don't come running along suddenly and stand in the way of your target.

Penn Jones had 9 shooters from 9 different locations, each firing one shot each. I wish I could ask him how he arrived at that conclusion.

- lee

The lady in blue, whom it now appears quite clearly is the same as the woman who is approaching the individuals at the corner - one of whom appears to be Rosemary Willis. There's a film I'll be you haven't seen.

- lee

[Lee Forman]

Almost looks like they know each other, doesn't it? Robin - do you have that view of the Willis family on the corner of Main and Houston? If this is Mrs Willis, history is missing out.