photo alteration by the media

[John Dolva]

a better copy of this one may be helpful

[Bill Miller]

name='Jack White' date='Jul 11 2006, 06:00 AM' post='67948']

More Hill on the trunk...er....er...oops, NOT on the trunk.

Jack

Jack, so it never dawned on you that the gray haired individual you call JFK sitting upright in the limo as it enters the underpass in the Zfilm was John Connally.

Does the Miller photo help you see your error? And if that is JFK sitting up in the limo, then what is Jackie doing ... looking for her cigarettes???

Bill Miller

[J. William King]

Pardon me, but who the heck cares if Hill's foot was inside, outside, or if it was retouched? What does this have to do with the assassination?

Is it Hill's foot? Yes. He said so in his testimony.

Was the photo retouched? Yes. The newspaper photo and article came out right after the assassination, and it was thought *at the time* that it was Kennedy's foot, so it was "punched up" a bit.

So what?????

150 posts over something this trivial is why the LN community sees CT's as a bunch of nuts. Lets get onto something important for a change.

*Rant mode over*

JW

Edited July 11, 2006 by J. William King

[David G. Healy]

'Bill Miller'

Jack, so it never dawned on you that the gray haired individual you call JFK sitting upright in the limo as it enters the underpass in the Zfilm was John Connally.

so where does Nellie tell us she sat John back up AFTER she pulled him down into her lap?

Does the Miller photo help you see your error? And if that is JFK sitting up in the limo, then what is Jackie doing ... looking for her cigarettes???

who said it was JFK sitting up?

Bill Miller

Edited July 11, 2006 by David G. Healy

[John Dolva]

William, I understand frustration, however, IMO, it is important for a number of reasons

as Pat says a study of photo history and manipilation that while 'gross' (in the sense of being obvious) is instructive.

IF it is indeed a hand, then (BTW noone of 'the handists' have said (AFAIK) that it CANNOT be a foot.) then::

** Tom's nothroughbody first shot can be disputed on the basis of bloody fingers (reaching for throat)

**There are other features that can be explained as a lot of blood and tissue in an area where it really shouldn't be so much if it was a from rear right headshot, but rather a frontal shot.

It is instructive in a study of group dynamics re styles, sharing and effectiveness

It provides a benchmark of sorts for other photo evaluations in determining a threshold of clarity

other reasons too probably, so please bear with the ponderous nature of it all.

[Bill Miller]

so where does Nellie tell us she sat John back up AFTER she pulled him down into her lap?

David, your knowledge of the photographical record is really poor. Around Z175, one can see Connally lean back into Nellie's lap because she reached out and pulled him towards her. Nellie had testified to this. Immediately after the head shot - Connally raised up and rolled his body forward. He sat up as the car went into the underpass. In the photo showing Clint Hill on the back of the limo getting his right leg into position, the Connally's are rising up in the car. By the time Miller took his photo, Governor Connally is sitting up again.

who said it was JFK sitting up?

Jack marked his Zapruder illustration with a line going to Connally's head while claiming it to be JFK. (see post 150 of this thread) You do read the post before attempting to discuss them - don't you?

Bill Miller

POSTED BY JACK WHITE:

Edited July 11, 2006 by Bill Miller

[Pat Speer]

In Bill's post #138, he shows the Newman photo. Is it my eyes or is there a black shape sticking out from the end of the seat? If there is a shape, maybe this is the same thing evident in the Miller photo.... Just a thought.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Pat Speer

[John Dolva]

Pat, it's 'no-chrome' area of the top side limo wall fixture. Just about where the 'shoe' happens to be seen in the other photo.

[Craig Lamson]

a better copy of this one may be helpful

Perhaps a better understanding of the angle of incidence equals angle of reflection might be helpful. No let me take that back...ANY understanding of angle of incidence equals angle of reflectinon.....

You like to make silly drawings, Make a profile view of the limo at the back door jamb. Show us all the camera angle that will allow the seat back to be reflected in the lower chrome.

Wishing it so will not make it so.

[Robin Unger]

so where does Nellie tell us she sat John back up AFTER she pulled him down into her lap?

David, your knowledge of the photographical record is really poor. Around Z175, one can see Connally lean back into Nellie's lap because she reached out and pulled him towards her. Nellie had testified to this. Immediately after the head shot - Connally raised up and rolled his body forward. He sat up as the car went into the underpass. In the photo showing Clint Hill on the back of the limo getting his right leg into position, the Connally's are rising up in the car. By the time Miller took his photo, Governor Connally is sitting up again.

who said it was JFK sitting up?

Jack marked his Zapruder illustration with a line going to Connally's head while claiming it to be JFK. (see post 150 of this thread) You do read the post before attempting to discuss them - don't you?

Bill Miller

POSTED BY JACK WHITE:

This frame which roughly equates to "Altgens 7" appears to show JFK slumped to his left, Connally is now sitting upright looking behind Jackie towards kennedy's head position.

[David G. Healy]

'Bill Miller' wrote:

so where does Nellie tell us she sat John back up AFTER she pulled him down into her lap?

David, your knowledge of the photographical record is really poor. Around Z175, one can see Connally lean back into Nellie's lap because she reached out and pulled him towards her. Nellie had testified to this.

dgh: my knowledge of the photographical record is irrelevant, testimony is what I'm looking for, Warren Commission testimony in particular, you should have no problem **citing** Nellies testimony

Immediately after the head shot - Connally raised up and rolled his body forward. He sat up as the car went into the underpass.

dgh: Nellies testimony? **cite** please! Connally has 5 wounds and a possible collapsed lung, correct?

In the photo showing Clint Hill on the back of the limo getting his right leg into position, the Connally's are rising up in the car. By the time Miller took his photo, Governor Connally is sitting up again.

dgh: Nellies testimony or JConnally's? - **cite** please!

Edited July 11, 2006 by David G. Healy

[Jack White]

Nellie testified that she pulled him down into her lap and covered

him with her body. She does not mention Connally GETTING UP

AND SITTING ERECT afterward. Quite the opposite, she said she

THOUGHT HE WAS DEAD lying across her lap.

QUOTE:

Mrs. CONNALLY. I heard--you know how we were seated in the car, the President and Mrs. Kennedy, John was in front of the President and I was seated in front of Mrs. Kennedy--I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands.

He said nothing. He just sort of slumped down in the seat. John had turned to his right also when we heard that first noise and shouted, "no, no, no," and in the process of turning back around so that he could look back and see the President--I don't think he could see him when he turned to his right--the second shot was fired and hit him. He was in the process of turning, so it hit him through this shoulder, came out right about here. His hand was either right in front of him or on his knee as he turned to look so that the bullet went through him, crushed his wrist and lodged in his leg. And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat.

I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap.

We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor.

The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband."

Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand". I thought was John was dead, and I heard the Secret Service man say, "Let's get out of here quick." So, we pulled out of the motorcade and we must have been a horrible sight flying down that freeway with those dying men in our arms and going to no telling where. We just see the crowds flashing by.

John said nothing. I said only to him from the time I saw one little movement, that maybe he is still alive, and, I kept whispering to him, "Be still, it is going to be all right, be still, it is going to be all right."

I have read stories where I screamed and he screamed and all these things. There was no screaming in that horrible car. It was just a silent, terrible drive. We got to the hospital, I guess it was the hospital, the car stopped and John was still in my lap, but I knew he was alive and people were swarming all around the car.

They were trying to get Mrs. Kennedy to get out so they could get the President out and she didn't seem to want to get out of the car. I sat there for what seemed to me an awfully long time, but probably was just a few minutes, wondering how long I had to sit there with this man dying in my arms before I could ask somebody to do something.

[David G. Healy]

'Robin Unger' wrote:

This frame which roughly equates to "Altgens 7" appears to show JFK slumped to his left, Connally is now sitting upright looking behind Jackie towards kennedy's head position.

Sorry, quite frankly the ONLY person I see [in the photos you posted] "sitting up" is Greer, the Limo driver!

what ever Connally is doing in these photos reflects nothing more than he's trying to find a position where he can 'BREATHE', thats IF he's conscious, sitting up with a possible collapse lung ain't it....

a better copy of this one may be helpful

Perhaps a better understanding of the angle of incidence equals angle of reflection might be helpful. No let me take that back...ANY understanding of angle of incidence equals angle of reflectinon.....

You like to make silly drawings, Make a profile view of the limo at the back door jamb. Show us all the camera angle that will allow the seat back to be reflected in the lower chrome.

Wishing it so will not make it so.

show us photog.... dazzle us!

[Craig Lamson]

'Robin Unger' wrote:

This frame which roughly equates to "Altgens 7" appears to show JFK slumped to his left, Connally is now sitting upright looking behind Jackie towards kennedy's head position.

Sorry, quite frankly the ONLY person I see [in the photos you posted] "sitting up" is Greer, the Limo driver!

what ever Connally is doing in these photos reflects nothing more than he's trying to find a position where he can 'BREATHE', thats IF he's conscious, sitting up with a possible collapse lung ain't it....

a better copy of this one may be helpful

Perhaps a better understanding of the angle of incidence equals angle of reflection might be helpful. No let me take that back...ANY understanding of angle of incidence equals angle of reflectinon.....

You like to make silly drawings, Make a profile view of the limo at the back door jamb. Show us all the camera angle that will allow the seat back to be reflected in the lower chrome.

Wishing it so will not make it so.

show us photog.... dazzle us!

I have shown you everything needed to understand this problem. You just too ignorant to understand davie? They not teach you this stuff in news videographers night school?

[Jack White]

By following the series of frames which show someone in the

right corner of the rear seat of the limo, we see that by

frame 465 that the "person" IS STANDING ERECT!

This can be neither Kennedy nor Connally (because of

evidence that Kennedy is dead and Connally has a

collapsed lung and lies across Nellie's lap).

In the tradition of WHISTLEBLOWERS in other cases of

this sort, I conclude that this is a tell-tale signiture of

an ANIMATOR of the film who wanted to leave indisputable

evidence that the film was an animation, BECAUSE A

STANDING CORPSE is not possible. This frame is at the

end of the film, where it was unnoticed till now.

Jack

Edited July 11, 2006 by Jack White