The Real Zapruder Question

[Sid Walker]

by the way, what was Honest Abe's 'take' on where the shots came from and number of same...?

as to Abe being in the White Russian cirles of DeM and LHO et al....might just be ANOTHER coincidence...

According to this source, these are some basic facts about Zapruder:

Born: 15-May-1905

Birthplace: Kovel, Russia

Died: 30-Aug-1970

Gender: Male

Religion: Jewish

Ethnicity: White

Sexual orientation: Straight

Occupation: Cinematographer

Nationality: United States

The same source claims he was also a Freemason and Shriner.

All in all, quite a dude.

But as Jack mentioned, his other 'cinematography' work does not seem to entered in the annals of popular history. Perhaps he was too busy networking

[Chris Davidson]

Zapruder went on TV and indicated the shots came from behind him. He also indicated that there may have been a third shot, AFTER the head shot. There is no reason to think he was involved in anything insidious, outside of making BANK off his winning lottery ticket.

And Ashton, Zapruder did flinch. The blur analysis of William Hartmann for the HSCA indicated that Zapruder's strongest flinch prior to the head shot was around frame 190. The largest response in fact comes right after the response associated with the head shot, indcating that this is when the third shot occurred. Hartmann, who was probably not familiar with the plethora of earwitness testimony indicating there was a shot just before or just after the head shot wrongly interpreted this response as Zapruder's crying out. The blur/jiggle caused by Zapruder's crying out came a second afterwards. IMO.

Pat, in which interview did Zapruder indicate the shots came from behind him.

In the interview he gives with station WFAA-TV in Dallas, which I believe is his first, right after the shooting, I don't hear him mention anything about the shot direction.

thanks

chris

[Guest Stephen Turner]

[]

Pat, in which interview did Zapruder indicate the shots came from behind him.

In the interview he gives with station WFAA-TV in Dallas, which I believe is his first, right after the shooting, I don't hear him mention anything about the shot direction.

thanks

chris

Secret security chief, James Rowley said after interviewing Zapruder,"According to Mr Zapruder the position of the assassin was behind him."

Yet, in his testimony to the W/C he is less sure. In a reply to Mr Liebeller about the direction of the shots he said,"There was too much reverberation, there was an echo, which gave me a sound all over."

[Steve Thomas]

Sid,

According to this source, these are some basic facts about Zapruder:

Religion: Jewish

Any indication at all that he attended the same synagogue as Jack Ruby?

Steve Thomas

[Michael Hogan]

Portion of Zapruder's Warren Commission testimony (with which almost all researchers are familiar)

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?

Mr. ZAPRUDER.

No, I also thought it came from back of me.

Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.

Mr. LIEBELER. All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Well, yes.

Mr. LIEBELER. From the direction behind you?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--

I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.

(Emphases added)

Also, this comment by Zapruder and Liebler's odd response have been often discussed:

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Well, they claimed they told me it was about 2 frames fast--instead of 16 it was 18 frames and they told me it was about 2 frames fast in the speed and they told me that the time between the 2 rapid shots, as I understand, that was determined--the length of time it took to the second one and that they were very fast and they claim it has proven it could be done by 1 man. You know there was indication there were two?

Mr. LIEBELER. Your films were extremely helpful to the work of the Commission, Mr. Zapruder.

[John Dolva]

"As to what happened--I remember the police were running behind me. There

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were police running right behind me. Of course, they didn't realize yet, I guess, where the shot came from--that it came from that height.

Mr. LIEBELER. As you were standing on this abutment facing Elm street, you say the police ran over behind the concrete structure behind you and down the railroad track behind that, is that right?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. After the shots?

Mr. LIEBELER. Yes.

Mr. ZAPRUDER. Yes--after the shots--yes, some of them were motorcycle cops--I guess they left their motorcycles running and they were running right behind me, of course, in the line of the shooting. I guess they thought it came from right behind me.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?

Mr. ZAPRUDER. No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there."

What does he mean? If behind him refers to his behind while on the pedestal, then the 'line' is through to the PO. 'Here' is his side and 'there' is ..there?

In the beginnig of Zfilm chronology. there was a statement that was quickly 'corrected' which said the shot came from "the side."

Edited August 8, 2006 by John Dolva

[Lee Forman]

As loud reports were sounding and echoing in Dealey Plaza, as people were falling to the ground and running in terror, as his viewfinder revealed to him the President of the United States being murdered before his eyes, how and why did Abe Zapruder and Ms. Sitzman continue to stand erect on a prominent raised platform in the middle of the likely firing zone with Zapruder resolutely locked on the Presidential limousine until it disappeared under the overpass?

Ashton Gray

...and so far as we know, this is the ONLY FILM ever made by

"Zapruder"...at least no others have ever surfaced.

Jack

Yes, and not only does he keep rolling instead of ducking for the safety of very handy concrete cover, not only does he keep the subject well-framed, but he doesn't even flinch at any of the shots. He was a very disciplined boy. And Sitzman deserves a medal for bravery under fire.

Ashton

I originally was taken by the fact that he allowed his subject to trail off and almost out of view entirely. z291 for example.

I was also curious when I heard that the 2nd floor DalTex 'broom closet' was used as a changing room during the filming of JFK and that someone informed the actors that the room had belonged to Jennifer Juniors in November of 1963 for storage. Wonder if there is a record someplace that could confirm that.

- lee

[Pat Speer]

I believe Zapruder rented out parts of the second, third, and fourth floors of the Dal-Tex. If anyone has a list of all the occupants on the West side of the building, that would be helpful. As far as why he only filmed the one film...well, he had just purchased the camera and was trying iit out, only to have this incredibly pleasant experience with it. Then the government took his camera from him. His reluctance in re-embarking into the cinematic world is understandable.

[David G. Healy]

duplicate post

Edited August 8, 2006 by David G. Healy

[David G. Healy]

I believe Zapruder rented out parts of the second, third, and fourth floors of the Dal-Tex. If anyone has a list of all the occupants on the West side of the building, that would be helpful. As far as why he only filmed the one film...well, he had just purchased the camera and was trying iit out, only to have this incredibly pleasant experience with it. Then the government took his camera from him. His reluctance in re-embarking into the cinematic world is understandable.

Largest response, flinch? An unsuspecting, amateur motion picture camerman? Afraid of heights, wearing glasses, had to be talked into filming the event, by a woman (Sitzman) he doesn't even name in his WC testimony, rounds going off, echos everywhere, then the presidents head exploding... That's IT, a tiny flinch? Did the guy have military experience, was he a marksman, use to hearing rounds fired. Plus, he's crying and or crying out while he continues his filming trek down Elm Street? His response to the gunshots are negligible, hardly a blip.... that B&H414 camera at full zoom, panning left to right would need only 3-4 inches of upward/downward or sideways camera movement off-center for the liomo to disappear from the frame....

Zapruder did better than some pro combat photog's I know. When they saw the Z-film, understood who took it, they were amazed [two of the four don't believe it].

[Ashton Gray]

that B&H414 camera at full zoom, panning left to right would need only 3-4 inches of upward/downward or sideways camera movement off-center for the liomo to disappear from the frame....

Probably considerably less as the limo moved through the head shot zone, where the car was closest to him.

Ashton

[David G. Healy]

that B&H414 camera at full zoom, panning left to right would need only 3-4 inches of upward/downward or sideways camera movement off-center for the liomo to disappear from the frame....

Probably considerably less as the limo moved through the head shot zone, where the car was closest to him.

Ashton

yes, of course, I didn't want to upset the Warren Commission purists.

[Terry Mauro]

Deleted by Theresa C. Mauro

Edited August 9, 2006 by Terry Mauro

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I believe Zapruder rented out parts of the second, third, and fourth floors of the Dal-Tex. If anyone has a list of all the occupants on the West side of the building, that would be helpful. As far as why he only filmed the one film...well, he had just purchased the camera and was trying iit out, only to have this incredibly pleasant experience with it. Then the government took his camera from him. His reluctance in re-embarking into the cinematic world is understandable.

Largest response, flinch? An unsuspecting, amateur motion picture camerman? Afraid of heights, wearing glasses, had to be talked into filming the event, by a woman (Sitzman) he doesn't even name in his WC testimony, rounds going off, echos everywhere, then the presidents head exploding... That's IT, a tiny flinch? Did the guy have military experience, was he a marksman, use to hearing rounds fired. Plus, he's crying and or crying out while he continues his filming trek down Elm Street? His response to the gunshots are negligible, hardly a blip.... that B&H414 camera at full zoom, panning left to right would need only 3-4 inches of upward/downward or sideways camera movement off-center for the liomo to disappear from the frame....

Zapruder did better than some pro combat photog's I know. When they saw the Z-film, understood who took it, they were amazed [two of the four don't believe it].

Well!

It is somewhat difficult to accept that an individual, who is somewhat balancing on a pedastal to the extent that he requires someone to hold him, can/does thereafter pan a camera across an area which has a downhill slope and in which a vehicle is travelling on this downhill slope, yet the camera is being held and "panned" in such a position as to indicate that the vehicle is actually travelling on an uphill slope, and, during this "panning & filming", hold the camera so completely steady as to maintain the bottom edge of the film exposure in direct and level alignment with the top edge of the car doors.

(Z320 through Z330)

Not to even mention the other virtually perfect horizontal alignment with the car.

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The courts regularly accept as an established fact that anything which appears to occurs, yet is for all known human endeavor physically impossible, as being evidence of some form of human tampering.

You are clearly on the right track now David.

Tom

[David G. Healy]

I believe Zapruder rented out parts of the second, third, and fourth floors of the Dal-Tex. If anyone has a list of all the occupants on the West side of the building, that would be helpful. As far as why he only filmed the one film...well, he had just purchased the camera and was trying iit out, only to have this incredibly pleasant experience with it. Then the government took his camera from him. His reluctance in re-embarking into the cinematic world is understandable.

Largest response, flinch? An unsuspecting, amateur motion picture camerman? Afraid of heights, wearing glasses, had to be talked into filming the event, by a woman (Sitzman) he doesn't even name in his WC testimony, rounds going off, echos everywhere, then the presidents head exploding... That's IT, a tiny flinch? Did the guy have military experience, was he a marksman, use to hearing rounds fired. Plus, he's crying and or crying out while he continues his filming trek down Elm Street? His response to the gunshots are negligible, hardly a blip.... that B&H414 camera at full zoom, panning left to right would need only 3-4 inches of upward/downward or sideways camera movement off-center for the liomo to disappear from the frame....

Zapruder did better than some pro combat photog's I know. When they saw the Z-film, understood who took it, they were amazed [two of the four don't believe it].

Well!

It is somewhat difficult to accept that an individual, who is somewhat balancing on a pedastal to the extent that he requires someone to hold him, can/does thereafter pan a camera across an area which has a downhill slope and in which a vehicle is travelling on this downhill slope, yet the camera is being held and "panned" in such a position as to indicate that the vehicle is actually travelling on an uphill slope, and, during this "panning & filming", hold the camera so completely steady as to maintain the bottom edge of the film exposure in direct and level alignment with the top edge of the car doors.

(Z320 through Z330)

Not to even mention the other virtually perfect horizontal alignment with the car.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The courts regularly accept as an established fact that anything which appears to occurs, yet is for all known human endeavor physically impossible, as being evidence of some form of human tampering.

You are clearly on the right track now David.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Fascinating camerman this Zapruder guy. Never gave the**downhill** slope reality a **uphill** slope appearence a bit of consideration. Think the only way you could accomplish that uphill look (of a downhill reality) would be; a north of Elm St. 'canted' camera *physically* moving parallel with the vehicle. We know that didn't happen. Back to reframing the Elm Street sequence?