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Mary Ferrell


Robin Unger
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In Altgens 6 which i believe equates to Z-255

Is Greer looking over his right shoulder into the back seat. ?

I found a superior crop yesterday which came from the Mary ferrell site, in it i believe i can see Greer's left ear and the back

of his neck at the harline.

Any comments welcome.

The original image as found.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp...ary_ferrell.jpg

Smaller version, but sharper.

Edited by Robin Unger
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This is just an attempt to

1 isolate those elements of the Altgens image that are only Kennedy

2 interpolate/replace those parts that are not seen by : (my) 'imagination' and merging it with another image of Kennedy

What I see is Kennedy not 'clutching at his throat' but pulling open his coat at the throat area and trying to look at that area.

My apologies Robin, as you appear to be saying something here about Greer, but possibly this has some relevance, (If nothing else as a method to isolate indvidulas and their features from surrounds).

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quote:

My apologies Robin, as you appear to be saying something here about Greer, but possibly this has some relevance, (If nothing else as a method to isolate indvidulas and their features from surrounds.

No problem john.

This is the position i see greer in, of course what i see in Altgens 6 may just be my imagination, the image still isn't good enough to make a call.

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This is just an attempt to

1 isolate those elements of the Altgens image that are only Kennedy

2 interpolate/replace those parts that are not seen by : (my) 'imagination' and merging it with another image of Kennedy

What I see is Kennedy not 'clutching at his throat' but pulling open his coat at the throat area and trying to look at that area.

My apologies Robin, as you appear to be saying something here about Greer, but possibly this has some relevance, (If nothing else as a method to isolate indvidulas and their features from surrounds).

What I see is Kennedy not 'clutching at his throat' but pulling open his coat at the throat area and trying to look at that area.

Thanks very much John!

I told people this long ago also, and not suprisingly many contested it and others failed to understand the significance of it.

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Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is primarily apparent from the motion picture because of the two or three or four frames that show as he emerges from the sign; that is, in the motion picture, you see the President reaching for his coat lapels and going into a hunched position, leaning forward and lowering his head.

Mr. McCLOY. That doesn't exist in frame 225 yet, does it?

Mr. SHANEYFELT. It is just beginning in frame 225. That is frame 225 is the first view we have of the President.

Mr. McCLOY. Out past the sign.

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For anyone who has ever gotten a good ole southern "Yellow Jacket" in their clothing, stinging them, the first thing that one does is attempt to get out of/get the clothing off.

JFK has a "Hot" round lodged into the base of his neck which, in addition to the pain of impact, would be burning him as if a hot charcoal were located back there.

Most, (considering that most being those who have not been shot at and hit) are not aware that "Pain" completely over-rides the instinct for self survival/aka ducking.

Thus the burning pain of CE399 into his back caused JFK to over-ride the basic instinct for survival and he thus remained upright until such time as the Z312/313 headshot/aka second shot took the top of his head off.

All of this "grasping the neck" is merely more BS started by those who have never truly evaluated the film; read the Warren Report; and believe what they read without separate and independent verification.

I do believe the word is "Sheeples"!

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In Altgens 6 which i believe equates to Z-255

Is Greer looking over his right shoulder into the back seat. ?

I found a superior crop yesterday which came from the Mary ferrell site, in it i believe i can see Greer's left ear and the back

of his neck at the harline.

Any comments welcome.

The original image as found.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp...ary_ferrell.jpg

Smaller version, but sharper.

Sorry to hijack your topic Robin, but wanted to respond to John.

When dealing with the WC, as well as what "others" say, rest assured that one will look considerably less foolish if they question everything.

Long ago, I found how the WC had manipulated the "Altgens" re-enactment photo by moving the camera position considerably farther up Elm St. than the true position of Altgens actually was.

For those who missed this "movie".

Major differences between the Altgens and Altgens/WC re-enactment.

1. One can look between the tree limbs in the background and see the front of the TSDB. In that regards, one should pay close attention to what letters appear between the fork in the tree on the Altgens photo, as compared with the Altgens re-enactment photo.

2. The concrete pilar directly behind the Presidential vehicle also provides another reference point, and it's corner's and the alignment of these corners with Kellerman and JFK provide an excellent reference. Especially when compared against the WC re-enactment photo.

3. The "frontal" view comparison of the two vehicles, as well as the position of the left front tire in relationship to the stripe in the street.

All of which was slight/sleight-of-hand manipulated to move Altgens position farther up the street and closer to the impact position of Z313/aka the second shot, in order to make it appear that Altgens saw this impact to the head of JFK when in fact what he observed was the impact of the final/last/third shot.

Anyway! Back to a part of your question.

Having this many questions regarding the Altgens photo, I plotted the position of JFK utilizing one of the full size (1-inch = 10 feet) West Survey plats in my possession.

This is not difficult when one has the photo and the survey plat as there are more than sufficient fixed objects shown in the photo, which Mr. West also identified and platted on the survey plat.

To end this long winded story, the cross-check of ALL items, from Zapruder's position as well as the Altgens Position (Actual known position down by the third yellow stripe) confirms that the Altgens photo is/was taken at Z255 (+/- 1 frame)

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Mr. SHANEYFELT. On Commission Exhibit No. 900, the top photograph is a photograph purportedly made by an AP photographer shortly after one of the shots. It depicts the side of the Governor's head, the left side of the Governor's head, his ear is visible, he has turned considerably. It depicts the President's hand touching his lapels, and a portion of the President's face.

Secret Service agents on the followup car are seen also. The Texas School Book Building in the background.

The reenactment photograph was made after positioning the car by looking at the photograph, based on the position of the car as related to the lane line in the street, as related to the position of the building, the column of the building and so on to reestablish the location.

We also reestablish in reenactment the position of the agent taking Governor Connally's position in the car used in the reenactment and the position of President Kennedy to closely approximate the actual photograph made by the AP, Associated Press. This was then studied, the car in this position was then studied, from the Zapruder position, and was determined to be frame 255.

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All of which, not unlike others testimony of Shaneyfelt as well as Frazier, tends to add validity to their testimony and statements when one has questions regarding their reliability.

Hope that helps.

Tom

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Robin,

I think that what you point to in Altgens is too high to be Greer's left ear and hairline. Compare how much higher his head would be than Kellerman's beside him.

What fascinates me most about that photo is, what in the world is "Hard Hat Man" looking at? (His name escapes me at the moment.) As is so clear in the crop you posted, he has turned his whole body to the east, and stands seemingly staring toward a lower level of the Dal Tex Building. What could so have his attention there, to the exclusion of everything going on in the street?

Ron

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To answer to Robin's post in my opinion;

I feel that you are right about it being Greer turned around, looking to the back. Him appearing to be higher in elevation, is in my view due to the angle, and the fact that he straightens 'up' a little bit, when turning around. In the Z-film it is (in my maybe distorted view) very clear that you can see Greer grasping the steering wheel with his hands just around Z241-Z245. Maybe? he says something to Kellerman, because Kellerman, shortly after turns around too, and Altgens captures the exact moment Kellerman is about to turn around leftwards. He has just started the turn when Altgens takes the snap in 'perfect' accordance to Z255. Greer is then already facing backwards.

I wanted to attach a file here now, but every time I try to upload it, I get the message "You did not select a file to upload". Very frustrating. It is not the best quality, but to me clearly shows that Greer turns around 'simoultanesly' as grasping the steering wheel. It is a small 2373kb sized file called "realtime_zapruder.mpa". Converting it to *.mpg does not help. I am sorry I cannot recall where obtained, other than it was on a website linked to in the past on this forum, on a previous thread. Maybe I'll manage to upload it, seems not to work now. But I believe those who have good copies, not too dark, will observe what I do. Please correct me, if the case is I need glasses.

Thanks for posting the clear image Robin. I also wonder what "Hard Hat Man" is looking at, great observation Ron. Also the two women above Connally who have also turned to the left. The one to the right has focused on something a little higher elevated it seems. One question: Is anyone able to enlighten me, what happened to the face of the man to the left of the TSBD entrance? The one that looks like he is wearing a suit and some kind of Fedora-looking hat. Left left of Lovelady.

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Hard Hat Man was construction worker A.J. Millican. He had the distinction of hearing 8 shots fired. His sheriff's office statement includes the following: "I was standing on the North side of Elm Street, about half way between Houston and the Underpass. . . Just after the President’s car passed, I heard three shots come from up toward Houston and Elm right by the Book Depository Building, and then immediately I heard two more shots come from the Arcade between the Book Store and the Underpass, and then three more shots came from the same direction only sounded further back. It sounded approximately like a 45 automatic, or a high powered rifle. Then everybody started running up the hill."

Presumably Millican is shown in Altgens facing east and looking toward the Dal Tex Building because he heard 3 shots fired from that direction. But that raises the question of why someone would turn his body in that direction, making a better target, and calmly stand there with his arms folded when 3 shots have been fired.

According to his supervisor, Millican later received a threatening phone call, and was never contacted by the Warren Commission or HSCA. He died in 1986.

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Robin,

I think that what you point to in Altgens is too high to be Greer's left ear and hairline. Compare how much higher his head would be than Kellerman's beside him.

What fascinates me most about that photo is, what in the world is "Hard Hat Man" looking at? (His name escapes me at the moment.) As is so clear in the crop you posted, he has turned his whole body to the east, and stands seemingly staring toward a lower level of the Dal Tex Building. What could so have his attention there, to the exclusion of everything going on in the street?

Ron

what in the world is "Hard Hat Man" looking at?

http://www.geocities.com/quaneeri2/willis05.jpg

It is what he is doing here that is of considerable more importance.

And, for those who are unaware, later versions of the Altgens photo as well as the Willis photo were "clipped/cropped" to eliminate him.

So, those who are unaware and make their conclusions based on later day evidence are seeing merely what you have been lead to, and allowed to see.

There has been a progressive program of "cleaning up" the minor errors which were originally missed in the WC's somewhat hurredly painting over of the facts.

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I believe this image may show greer's left rear profile. " His left ear and the back of his neck " ??

********************

Robin:

To continue, with your thread...

This is the best I could do before, loosing it entirely...

With the President, and Greer..?

As far as the Hard Hat man, that could have been started in another new interesting thread.

Thanks B.

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What I see is Kennedy not 'clutching at his throat' but pulling open his coat at the throat area and trying to look at that area.

My apologies Robin, as you appear to be saying something here about Greer, but possibly this has some relevance, (If nothing else as a method to isolate indvidulas and their features from surrounds).

I think President Kennedy had some kind of spasm that brought his arms up like that. This resulted from a bullet. I think the bullet interfered with his breathing. He couldn't breathe and was trying to open his tie knot. My opinion is: the man couldn't breathe in or exhale and was in agony.

Also, about that photo. Someone on a JFK website said the man in the doorway (next to Lovelady) is none other than Harvey Oswald. According to Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong, Lee Oswald was on the 6th floor shooting, accompanied by someone. This was to frame Harvey, who was watching the motorcade like everyone else. I don't know if any of Lee's bullets hit the President.

So, I ask you, could that be Oswald standing next to Lovelady in the doorway?

Kathy

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One question: Is anyone able to enlighten me, what happened to the face of the man to the left of the TSBD entrance? The one that looks like he is wearing a suit and some kind of Fedora-looking hat. Left left of Lovelady.

The man left left of Lovelady (as we look at the picture), wearing a hat and suit, appears to be holding a young child whose woollen hat is obscuring his face.

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