Virginia Tech Spree Killer

[Charles Black]

Hello All

I have just re read every post in this thread. The

inability of some to understand that these killings, are to a very great extent, carried out by those who are already criminals or insane, and that the guns, for the most part, were never legally bought or registered, seems to go unnoticed here. I cannot begin to imagine how you can think that you will ever be able to "Remove Guns From the Criminal Element." What you are in fact proposing, is that although the guns cannot be removed from the criminal element, we can at least take the guns away from the law abiding citzens and sportsmen, because they will obey the law and give up their guns. So even tho we have not been able to remove the guns from the most probable killers, we CAN at least take away the law abiding citizens "ability to protect themselves from armed thugs".

It will surely reduce crime and killings, when the bad guys can just walk into a home or business and at gunpoint, rob, rape and kill the good guys, and have no fear that any harm can come to them. Little harm would even come to them if they increased law enforcement members ten fold, and gave the police Abrams Tanks as patrol vehicles.

So further legislation will remove at least all of the legal guns. Therefore if I understand your logic, the good people are less likely to be shot by the bad people, because the bad people know that the good people can't defend themselves. And knowing that the good people are defenseless, and can therefore not harm the bad people, then the bad people will say that, "we have a truly unfair advantage" so we will stop committing crimes. Because we all know that "it is not as much of a thrill to shoot someone if you know that they can't shoot back. It just takes the sport out of killing" !

I am happy to admit, that here in the wilderness of the colonies, I have NO friends or acquaintances that are as cultured and enlightened as some of you.

I apologize to you all for wasting your time by entering my thoughts in this topic.

I suppose I am unable to grasp the crystal clarity of some of your advanced logic.

Charles Black

[John Dolva]

Some suggestions to the debate:

1, The Swiss people have more privately owned and carried weapons per capita than the USofA, yet is a far more peaceful country.

2. Prior to the Pinochet-CIA Chilean coup, the cry of the people was 'a people armed will never be defeated', ' give us guns'. Allende did not hear them. The coming coup was expected by the citizenry and they knew they needed to be armed.

3. David: "One reason you don't get gun crimes in Sweden like you do in the USA, despite there being loads of high-powered rifles in circulation (owned by hunters of elk, bear and wild boar) is that the possession of firearms is strictly licensed here.

To get a gun license, you first have to do a three-month course (usually run by the Swedish Hunting Association). Then you have to apply to the police and demonstrate that you're a stable, law-abiding person. You have to have an approved gun safe at home, and you have to keep the firing mechanism locked up and separate from the rest of the gun.

After that, the police can do regular background checks on you, and if you get arrested for drunk driving, or harassing your ex-partner, it's a racing certainty that the police will be around to collect your firearms immediately. They'll also revoke your gun license and the only way to get it back is to apply to the courts (who'll want fairly concrete evidence that you've dealt with your emotional problems)." and further , his personal experiences in the USA over a three week period.

4. Stereotyping of the perpetrators, usually as some sort of aberraation, ignores a violent history. Raymonds example of the Wounded Knee massacre is a good one. "The only good indian is a dead one", then there are others like the Tulsa Massacre and other 'n Hunts"etc.

I suggest one element in the USofA is the role of "Interest Group Politics" An aspect of this is Lobbying. Wher a tiny minority owns almost evrything, hence has Power, then their Lobbying is likely to be more effective. One of these disproportionately powerful groups is the NRA.

On the one hand there are many reasonable arguments that Citizenry should have access to weapons like their 'masters'. This can be at times a defensive means that protects everyone. This is recognised in many countries.

Partly, in the USofA, gun control is seen as 'disariming' the populace. It need not be. Stricter uniform, nationwide appllication of laws that ensures that the person that wants to buy a gun will store it properly will eliminate one group of tragedies, the one where children accidentaly gets hold of a loaded gun and in play discharges it.

Then there are the disparities of wealth, where often poor people are 'herded' into ghetto type situations, where naturally need and tenson + guns and drugs (co the Reagan Contras among others) lead to volatile situations.

Race prfiling in the hands of some Law enforcement leads to excessive, automatic force, where not warranted.

An Offensive, as opposed to a Defensive foreign policy is another element. You 'create' future enemies. Goodwill is better.

[John Simkin]

Some suggestions to the debate:

1, The Swiss people have more privately owned and carried weapons per capita than the USofA, yet is a far more peaceful country.

2. Prior to the Pinochet-CIA Chilean coup, the cry of the people was 'a people armed will never be defeated', ' give us guns'. Allende did not hear them. The coming coup was expected by the citizenry and they knew they needed to be armed.

3. David: "One reason you don't get gun crimes in Sweden like you do in the USA, despite there being loads of high-powered rifles in circulation (owned by hunters of elk, bear and wild boar) is that the possession of firearms is strictly licensed here.

To get a gun license, you first have to do a three-month course (usually run by the Swedish Hunting Association). Then you have to apply to the police and demonstrate that you're a stable, law-abiding person. You have to have an approved gun safe at home, and you have to keep the firing mechanism locked up and separate from the rest of the gun.

After that, the police can do regular background checks on you, and if you get arrested for drunk driving, or harassing your ex-partner, it's a racing certainty that the police will be around to collect your firearms immediately. They'll also revoke your gun license and the only way to get it back is to apply to the courts (who'll want fairly concrete evidence that you've dealt with your emotional problems)." and further , his personal experiences in the USA over a three week period.

4. Stereotyping of the perpetrators, usually as some sort of aberraation, ignores a violent history. Raymonds example of the Wounded Knee massacre is a good one. "The only good indian is a dead one", then there are others like the Tulsa Massacre and other 'n Hunts"etc.

I suggest one element in the USofA is the role of "Interest Group Politics" An aspect of this is Lobbying. Wher a tiny minority owns almost evrything, hence has Power, then their Lobbying is likely to be more effective. One of these disproportionately powerful groups is the NRA.

On the one hand there are many reasonable arguments that Citizenry should have access to weapons like their 'masters'. This can be at times a defensive means that protects everyone. This is recognised in many countries.

Partly, in the USofA, gun control is seen as 'disariming' the populace. It need not be. Stricter uniform, nationwide appllication of laws that ensures that the person that wants to buy a gun will store it properly will eliminate one group of tragedies, the one where children accidentaly gets hold of a loaded gun and in play discharges it.

Then there are the disparities of wealth, where often poor people are 'herded' into ghetto type situations, where naturally need and tenson + guns and drugs (co the Reagan Contras among others) lead to volatile situations.

Race prfiling in the hands of some Law enforcement leads to excessive, automatic force, where not warranted.

An Offensive, as opposed to a Defensive foreign policy is another element. You 'create' future enemies. Goodwill is better.

As David Richardson has said, all nations have subjects that they find difficulty in discussing in a rational matter.

People quote the second amendment to justify gun ownership: "Congress must not deny the states a militia. A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

It is argued that guns are needed to protect them from their government. What about the fifteenth amendment (1870): It “prohibits the federal government and the states from using a citizen's race, color, or previous status as a slave as a qualification for voting.”

Why were people unwilling to use their guns against the way this amendment was ignored until the 1960s. Could it be that they were picking and choosing which amendment to take seriously.

It is also interesting to observe the methods that the civil rights movement got the government to implement the fifteenth amendment. They did not use guns. Instead they used passive resistance against their opponents who used all sorts of violence, including guns, against them.

It was these scenes that inspired a generation of young people in Europe in the 1950s and 1960s to take up the cause of equality. It was pacifists like Martin Luther King who got the fifteenth amendment implemented, not those who were carrying guns.

[Jack White]

Excerpted from an internet discussion from JFK researcher John DiNardo....

Subject:

Odds are 2 Billion to 1 that these Massacres Randomly Occurred in the Same April Week

I agree with all that you say, and more. I began as a human rights activist in the

early 1990s. But I and many others have seen much evidence showing that these

power elite must worship Satan in order to receive their power, and their worship

involves blood sacrifices to Satan. 911 was another blood sacrifice.

Maybe you would begin to research this assertion after looking at the mathematical

odds against the Waco Massacre, the Oklahoma City Massacre, the Columbine

Massacre and the Virginia Tech Massacre all occurring during the same 5-day

time span. To calculate the approximate odds, multiply 73 times 73 times 73

times 73 = over twenty-eight million. The odds against these four massacres

occurring all in this same 5-day interval are greater than 28 million to 1.

Now couple those odds with the fact that the Roman Empire's blood sacrifices

occurred during that same interval. The odds now double to 56 million to 1.

Next, combine those odds with the fact that Hitler torched the Jews in the

Warsaw ghetto on April 19th, also. Now, take out your calculator and multiply

56 million times 73. In fact, the odds may be much greater than these,

because I may have been overly conservative in using a multiple of 2 for the

Roman factor.

John DiNardo

Coincidence?

[Jack White]

Message from 911 activist Lisa Long in Hawaii...

Strange Virginia Tech “Coincidences”

Thursday April 19th 2007, 9:28 pm 

“In the magical universe there are no coincidences and there are no accidents. Nothing happens unless someone

wills it to happen.” –William S. Burroughs

As “News Commentary” on the Truthseeker website notes, Virginia Tech is an “active partner” with DARPA, the

Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. In addition, the CIA actively recruits VT students, holding events the

spook agency bills as “career information” sessions.

“News Commentary” claims “Blacksburg, VA houses a US government ABOVE TOP SECRET underground laboratory (in

the side of a local Blacksburg mountain) that develops in conjunction with DARPA, weapons such as human robotic

mind control programming.” A Google search, however, turns up no mention of mind control experiments, of course,

but there is plenty of reference to the “Deep Underground Science and Engineering Laboratory… 7,000 feet

under Butt Mountain” in Blacksburg.

Part of the AMADEUS Project (Advanced MAnipulation for DEep Underwater Sampling), funded by the European

Commission (i.e., the executive body of the one-world European Union), the Deep Underground Science and

Engineering Laboratory, according to The Pit Bulletin (the newsletter of the Department of Mining and Minerals

Engineering at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University), is designed for “military needs, ranging from unique

designs for underground sporting arenas to storing various types of waste materials…. the AMADEUS team feel that

the expanding world population is creating a demand for additional types of underground construction.” As well, an

“expanding world population” may call for the development of “perfect weapons” long sought by DARPA and the

Pentagon, including avian influenza H5N1, an area of research at VT, according to Virginia Tech News (a Google

reference points to a page that currently produces an SQL error). “If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned

to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels,” Prince Phillip.

Finally, a resume posted on the VT Computer Science Department website by Robert G. Ball notes grants awarded to

the university by ARDA/DTO, short for Advanced Research and Development Activity, Disruptive Technology Office.

“ARDA was created in 1998 after the model of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) by the

Director of Central Intelligence and the Department of Defense, and took responsibility for funding some of DARPA’s

projects,” explains Wikipedia. “There has been speculation that the DTO is continuing research efforts started under

the Total Information Awareness program (TIA) in DARPA’s Information Awareness Office (IAO)…. Although ARDA’s

budget is presumably classified as part of the intelligence budget, the New York Times quoted an unnamed former

government official saying the agency spent about $100 million a year in 2003. The Associated Press reports that

ARDA had a staff of only eight in 2004.” Early last year, I reported that DTO was to be run by John Negroponte (see

my TIA “Disruptive Technology” Subverting Bill of Rights).

Of course, all of this secret and not so secret activity on the Virginia Tech campus and environs is not definitive

evidence Cho Seung-Hui was a government produced mind-control assassin. However, it does indicate VT serves as a

hub for experimental and prototype DoD technologies.

It is no secret the Pentagon has had a keen interest in electromagnetic weapons for some time. “Electronic

mind-control research is not new,” CNN reported in 1985.

continued at link

----------

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007...07standdown.htm

[Charles Black]

Hello John

I, and I feel everyone, should applaud the work of King, Ghandi and others who strove for a non violent means to solve any problem.

I abhore the practice of slavery by any means, and

I recognize the policies practiced by both the U.S., Great Britain, and most of the worlds historical "empire building countries" throughout history, to their conquered, or those whom they, the ruling body, classified as unequals.

John, this has nothing to do with "gun control" legislation, except that it was always a good idea to have the conquered or dissidents unarmed, so that the ruling body could force its will without fear of armed resistance. The thoughts of this and the continued realization and memory that if the American Revolutionaries had not had armed militias, that the U.S. "revolt" in 1776 would have been quickly quelled, and the U.S. might have remained, until this day, "subjects" of the British Empire.

Few people, certainly not I, will argue that World History is a history of the strong subjecting the weak to the ravages of tyranny. But this is not what we have been discussing as, you well know.

We have been discussing whether or not strict gun control legislation, makes the citizens of a nation, in which there is and has been much ethnic and social violence, safer as the result of confiscating the means of self protection from the non criminal element, while there is little or no assurance that the criminal element will not maintain their weaponry.

We are discussing whether this proposed type of gun control is in the best interest of the law abiding citizenry who, for the most part, also vigorously seek an end to social and ethnic disparity.

Guns and gun control are not the problem. Some attempt to quote accidents, that might happen as a result of the presence of guns, is widely and continuously heralded by those the unknowing, or unwilling to face the REAL problems. It is treating an amputation with only a band aid.

I feel that if someone open mindedly studies "every post in this tread", and still determines that "stricter gun control legislation" will truly be an aid in curing those social and ethnic problems, which the U.S. has been unwilling to face and to admit, I hope that those persons will never play a role in directing or influencing my future.

Guns are merely tools, as are knives, hammers, axes, and automobiles. Guns, along with bows, spears and swords are tools which are designed to kll, harm, control or intimidate---OR---to protect one against

those who would use them for these purposes.

If gun confiscation occurred within the U.S., and then it was determined by those in power that this did not "solve" the problem, but perhaps increased it, what do you feel would be the next step by this group of legislative intellects? More legislation?

Of course ! Legislation which would negate our remaining civil liberties ? Of course !

In my opinion, it is the desire of those not in governmental seats, but who "truly control" this nation, to relegate some 99% of our population to the control of that truly governing 1%, and we the "governed", will be as helpless as a flock of sheep, who must look to their shepherd for all of their needs.

I don't feel these are the workings of a paranoid mind, but of one who has learned the lessons of history, and feels that he has the right to at least to some extent, be in control of his future.

You who think you are "the knowing", are merely distancing yourselves from the fact, that most intelligent men and women, do not care to be the pawns of those truly uncaring symbols of power.

Most "Empires" have so distanced themselves by self pride and self adulation, that they have not recognized the power of the "sleeping giant". This is why we are all not speaking, Egyptian, Greek or Roman ! They self destructed ! They were never defeated while they realized truth of purpose.

I remain "violently hostile" to even the hint of the removal of what I consider to be my civil and human rights. I am one of those "unteachables", who until death, remains self assured, that there is "NO HUMAN" that holds "my" best interest" ahead of their own, or has as great an interet in the protection and future of my family, than do I.

Legislate away !

Charles Black

[Ron Ecker]

Maybe you would begin to research this assertion after looking at the mathematical

odds against the Waco Massacre, the Oklahoma City Massacre, the Columbine

Massacre and the Virginia Tech Massacre all occurring during the same 5-day

time span. To calculate the approximate odds, multiply 73 times 73 times 73

times 73 = over twenty-eight million. The odds against these four massacres

occurring all in this same 5-day interval are greater than 28 million to 1.

Now couple those odds with the fact that the Roman Empire's blood sacrifices

occurred during that same interval. The odds now double to 56 million to 1.

Next, combine those odds with the fact that Hitler torched the Jews in the

Warsaw ghetto on April 19th, also. Now, take out your calculator and multiply

56 million times 73. In fact, the odds may be much greater than these,

because I may have been overly conservative in using a multiple of 2 for the

Roman factor.

John DiNardo

Coincidence?

Jack,

One of the ostensible motives of the OKC bombing was to avenge the Waco Massacre. It would therefore be understandable to do the bombing around the anniversary.

In the VT Massacre, Cho in his video envoked the names of the Columbine killers, so again the timing is understandable. Cho obviously did a lot of planning.

I don't know what Roman blood sacrifices are being referred to, but rites of death and renewal in ancient cultures typically took place around the vernal equinox, i.e. in the spring. (Easter is celebrated in April for a reason.) What happened in the Warsaw ghetto in an April over half a century ago could certainly be coincidence.

Ron

[J. Raymond Carroll]

There are "lone-nuts" out there, but it is important to show how those who try to say that President Kennedy was a victim of one - Posner, Meyers, Bugliosi, et al., are demonstratably wrong.

And by insisting this is the official line, jeopardizes our national and personal security, and continues to do so until it is corrected.

BK

It will not be corrected by History News Network. Bringing Gerald Posner up to date , they say the Virginia killer is just another lone assassin, like Lee Oswald and James Earl Ray.

http://www.hnn.us/articles/37933.html

[William Kelly]

There are "lone-nuts" out there, but it is important to show how those who try to say that President Kennedy was a victim of one - Posner, Meyers, Bugliosi, et al., are demonstratably wrong.

And by insisting this is the official line, jeopardizes our national and personal security, and continues to do so until it is corrected.

BK

It will not be corrected by History News Network. Bringing Gerald Posner up to date , they say the Virginia killer is just another lone assassin, like Lee Oswald and James Earl Ray.

http://www.hnn.us/articles/37933.html

This is the dividing line - the MOTIVE - for Lee Harvey Oswald was either a crackpot like the eminent professor of history at Florida Atlantic University casts him off as - and as Posner, Holland, Meyers, Furman and Bugliosi categorize him, or he was a covert operative and the assassination was coup.

The line is drawn in the sand, and those who belive Oswald was a lone-nut who committed the assassination alone can sum up their case and go home, while those who recognize the Dealey Plaza Operation for what it is - a covert intelligence operation conducted by an anti-communist domestic intelligence network, can go on and wrap this case up and plug the national security loop hole that has allowed the real assassins to control national policy since November 22, 1963.

We don't have to debate the lone-nuters, or even pay attention to them, as long as we continue to fill in the blanks, and try to find the answers to the remaining questions.

BK

Edited April 23, 2007 by William Kelly

[John Simkin]

http://www.alternet.org/stories/50758/

[William Kelly]

http://www.alternet.org/stories/50758/

Thanks for that one John.

Mark Ames is on the mark, and now I'd like to read his book, "Going Postal," as the schools, like the Post Office, ARE part of the problem.

While I was trained to be a secondary school teacher, I lost my inclination to work in a school when it was pointed out to me that architects design schools, hospitals and prisons the same.

These violent school incidents only lead to increased "security" and separation of the schools from their comunities. I believe everybody should have access to the public schools and their libraries and facilities, since in USA most such institutions are paid for from property taxes. Why limit access to only set age limits and keep out those who pay for it? Now they're setting up even higher walls and stronger doors, isolating the schools from their own communities.

At my local high school they hired more security guards and put in survillance cameras for the student's supposed safety, then caught the security guards using the cameras in the girl's locker room. So much for security.

I also read the Secret Service study mentoned, and wrote to the authors, questioning their methodology, as they concentrated on strictly insane killers, attributed wrong motives to political assassins and ignored the most dangerous and prolific - the programed and the covert opertaional personality.

The Virginia Tech killings will have a more significant effect on not only gun control legislation, school security and police procedures, but on the characterization and profiling of murders and assassins.

BK

[Pat Speer]

http://www.alternet.org/stories/50758/

Thanks for that one John.

Mark Ames is on the mark, and now I'd like to read his book, "Going Postal," as the schools, like the Post Office, ARE part of the problem.

While I was trained to be a secondary school teacher, I lost my inclination to work in a school when it was pointed out to me that architects design schools, hospitals and prisons the same.

These violent school incidents only lead to increased "security" and separation of the schools from their comunities. I believe everybody should have access to the public schools and their libraries and facilities, since in USA most such institutions are paid for from property taxes. Why limit access to only set age limits and keep out those who pay for it? Now they're setting up even higher walls and stronger doors, isolating the schools from their own communities.

At my local high school they hired more security guards and put in survillance cameras for the student's supposed safety, then caught the security guards using the cameras in the girl's locker room. So much for security.

I also read the Secret Service study mentoned, and wrote to the authors, questioning their methodology, as they concentrated on strictly insane killers, attributed wrong motives to political assassins and ignored the most dangerous and prolific - the programed and the covert opertaional personality.

The Virginia Tech killings will have a more significant effect on not only gun control legislation, school security and police procedures, but on the characterization and profiling of murders and assassins.

BK

60 Minutes ran a segment last night on the Secret Service's efforts to understand would-be assassins and school spree killers. From talking to would-be assassins and spree killers in prison, they've developed a personality profile of the two and found they are largely identical. Both assassins and spree killers are suicidal. Most have thought about their act for months. They found, furthermore, that 81% of school shooters had talked about their plans beforehand. Yet another way in which Oswald differs from the "profile."

[John Simkin]

While I was trained to be a secondary school teacher, I lost my inclination to work in a school when it was pointed out to me that architects design schools, hospitals and prisons the same.

These violent school incidents only lead to increased "security" and separation of the schools from their comunities. I believe everybody should have access to the public schools and their libraries and facilities, since in USA most such institutions are paid for from property taxes. Why limit access to only set age limits and keep out those who pay for it? Now they're setting up even higher walls and stronger doors, isolating the schools from their own communities.

At my local high school they hired more security guards and put in survillance cameras for the student's supposed safety, then caught the security guards using the cameras in the girl's locker room. So much for security.

It has been reported that the gun lobby has been arguing that the massacre would not have occurred if all the students had been carrying guns!!!!!

Little comment has been made of the links the “media package” he created with the tactics of the terrorists. He even described himself on the video as a “martyr”.

I have heard that in the window of the shop where he bought the gun he used in the massacre there is a large photograph of Osama bin Laden with two guns pointing at his head. Once again the message is that you solve a problem by using violence. This is the main argument for removing corporal punishment from the school and the home.

None of the Americans on the forum have attempted to answer the question posed by John Dova about gun ownership and the different rates of shooting deaths in the various countries. For example, the comparison between the US, Canada, Switzerland and Sweden is stark.

[Charles Black]

John Simkin

As usual, many of you do not want to discuss the specifics of this problem which certainly HAVE beem

more than adequately addressed. You prefer to turn this into a "philosophical discussion" of Sweden, Switzerland and other countries which ethnically and socially have virtually nothing in common with the population and religious make up of the United States. They do not have the ethnic differences or the economic separation of classes which is so evident within the U.S.. You are not attempting to compare "apples and oranges" it is more like "grapes and watermelons". All of you who suggest a comparison of such divergent cultures, are

assuming that the members of this forum are certainly not only gullible, but extremely ignorant.

John, if you would for a change, approach a subject with an open mind, you would find that ALL of the "pertinent" issues which are involved with this problem, have been adequately addressed. You head this forum, however you are one of the foremost examples, of those who pre determine a conclusion,

and "reverse engineer" your supportive arguments to meet your pre formed conclusion. Yours is an prime example of the methods used by the Warren Commission.

There is never an adequate answer for those who "refuse to listen" !

You woud find my above statements are well supported, but fear of expulsion from the forum, prevents many from true self expression. Anyone disagreeing with you "feels", whether true or not, that they are playing on an unlevel field.

My opinion is that discussing a subject with one who will not listen is fruitless. That is why there are a number of, brighter than me researchers, who acknowledged this some time ago, and now never or very seldom, participate.

In any college class, has an instructor, ever to your knowledge, subjected the students to the task of comparing the U.S. problems, socially and ethnically, to those of Sweden and Switzerland?

Were I a student, my first thought would be....... "where the hell did that come from. And why?"

Well, I suppose that there is nothing more that I could add that would change the direction in which this discussion is being led !

Charles Black

[John Dolva]

John, there are many ways to respond to people. Non-response is one. The overall postings and so on is read by many who are not members so there are other avenues for response. I don't think I mentioned Canada though, but it was apart of another discussion of Michael Moores 'Bowling for Columbine' some months ago where again high gun ownership and low violence is a contrast to the U.S.. Having now spent a number of days thinking and reading on this issue, I think I would like to actually live in the USA for some extended time just to see how the overall atmosphere is.

One answer that I've come across deals extensively with economics and expectations, with the USofA as a centre of global wealth and there largely in the hands of a tiny minority, while in global standards the average is still much higher as it is in OZ as well.

One difference with may other relatively well off cuntries is the welfare state in some form, providing (IMO) a sense of worth within most people. 'Do as I say not as I do' is less a dehumanising influence when education and healthcare and other social services are adequately provided for to the bulk of the population as a right. IMO people then tend to respond by doing as is done to them, with a measure of respect and social cohesiveness.

I think that was also part of Kennedy's appeal in that he did propose to equalise opportunity and to respond to 'cries for help'. This to me shows that the average american 'breathes the same air...' etc. That the extremists sought to nullify the popular vote with gun/s in Dallas and get away with it, is part of a process of marginalising the needs of significant minorities, who then 'do as they see is done'. So, Malcolm X's much willified comment 'the chickens coming hime to roost' is not so wide off the mark.

This shooting happened in a largely white, middle class milieu, where the one hero (at least from what I can gather) an old man, a jew, an immigrant, a holocaust survivor, who challenged the shooter and saved some lives is hardly getting a mention. Where does that, as well as all the other analysis that ignores economic, endemic, social mores, leave the next person who in some, whatever the reason be, in such dissaffection, a choice to seek help or to pick up the gun. If society is structured to respond positively, nurturingly to the needs of the populations wherever that may be, the gun would probably be less of the choice.

This means a redistribution of wealth, and hence, power. The response so far appears (from the info available here in OZ) to be to increase shows of force on campus.

All the other countries have natives, immigrants, and dominant groupings. Take the Lapp Native in Sweden for example, or the itinerant basically illegal, Italian fruit picker in Switzerland. Australia its natives and immigrants. Multiculturalism and inclusiveness is a prime topic here.

Edited April 23, 2007 by John Dolva