My Dad Was a Dallas Police Officer

[Steve Thomas]

I posted this on Lancer, but nobody seemed very interested.

This was posted on the Dallas Historical Society forum last week by a man named Jim Conner, who said that his mother, sister and brother-in-law worked at the TSBD. He said his brother-in-law was Billie Lovelady:

http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=30530

Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer

Posted By: jim conner <pyrpinz@aol.com>

Date: Wednesday, 25 May 2005, at 2:51 p.m.

In Response To: Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer (gene morris)

"Dear Gene:

After the incident, everyone at TSB was interviewed. My mother's story then and now has stayed the same. Her parking space was just behind the fence at the grassy knoll. When she arrived for work that morning, she confronted several men in a car parked in her parking spot. Being the fiesty, Scotch-Irish she was, she told them they were not supposed to be parking there. They ignored her and continued to involve themselves in removing packages from the trunk of their car. Packages she described as could have contained rifles. She went inside and reported the incident to the manager of TSB Mr. Truly.

Throughout the rest of the day no mention was made of the incident and when interviewed by DPD she told the same story. There was no SS followup, nor was FBI interested. They were much more interested in holding Billie Lovelady for three days. Finally when a photograph of the front steps of TSB, showing Billie and most of the crew, surfaced, they figured he could not have been in two places at the same time. For years after that they still pestered him, just certain that he was involved in some way."

I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men. So far, Mr. Conner hasn't answered me.

Steve Thomas

[Ron Ecker]

Steve,

Is there a complete list anywhere of TSBD employees that day? I checked a list in the appendix of "Oswald Talked" to see if a Connor was on it, only to see that it's not a complete list. Names like Oswald, Lovelady, and Arce, for example, are noticeably absent. (It says "page two" at the top of the list.) And no Connor.

Ron

[Lee Forman]

That's awesome Steve! And much appreciated! I hope you get a reply. Knowing the make and model would be great.

I didn't follow what he meant about Billie being in more than one place at a time?

I think there is still something to be said for tabulating all of the suspect vehicles in one place - Bowers, Mercer and Sherrif Craig being a good starting point. I'd still like to know the make and model of the car Andrews was driving when he was suddenly pulled over by Tippit.

- lee

[Steve Thomas]

Lee,

That's awesome Steve!  And much appreciated!  I hope you get a reply.  Knowing the make and model would be great.

I asked Jim Conner what his mother's name was in 1963. He wrote me back and said, "Her name then was Vida Lee Whatley and she worked for Lyons and Carnahan Purlishing."

Mrs. Whatley is mentioned by name in the WC testimony of Geneva Hine (6H396)

Mr. Ball.

Steps lead down?

Miss HINE. Yes, sir; but there is a door before the steps and the elevator is to my left and I went past the hall that goes to my right and I knocked on the door of Lyons and Carnahan; that's a publishing company.

Mr. Ball.

What did you do then?

Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Me, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out.

Steve Thomas

[Don Roberdeau]

Good Day Ron.... Here are the names of whom I have in my files....

(in my best ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGAR "Terminator" voice.... "I have detailed files." (on most of them))

ADAMS, VICTORIA "Vickie" ELIZABETH

ARCE, DANNY GARCIA

ARNOLD, CAROLYN (Mrs. R. E.)

ARNOLD, R. E.

BAKER (nee RACHLEY), VIRGIE (Mrs. DONALD SAM BAKER)

BARNUM, VIRGINIA M. (or H.)

BERRY, JANE (Mrs. A. G.)

BURNS, DORIS FAY (Miss)

CALVERY, GLORIA (Mrs. ROBERT R.)

CALVERY-friend #1, (???=mentioned in CALVERY statement)

CALVERY-friend #2, (???=mentioned in CALVERY statement)

CAMPBELL, OCHUS "Otis" VIRGIL

CASE, EDNA (Mrs.)

CASON, JACK CHARLES

CASTER, WARREN

CLAY, BILLIE P. (Mrs. HERMAN "Billy" M.)

CUNNINGHAM, LOU

DAVIS, AVERY (Mrs. CHARLES THOMAS)

DEAN, RUTH HILLIARD (Mrs. JOSEPH EDDIE)

DICKERSON, MARY S. (Mrs. A.D.)

DORMAN, ELSIE T.

DOUGHERTY, JACK EDWIN

DRAGOO, BETTY J. (Mrs. BARNEY R.)

ELERSON, SANDRA SUE (Mrs. RONALD G.)

ELERSON-"elderly woman" (???=mentioned in ELERSON statement)

FORESMAN, SCOTT

FOSTER, BETTY ALICE

FRAZIER, BUELL WESLEY

GARNER, DOROTHY ANN

GIVENS, CHARLES "Slim" DOUGLAS

HAWKINS-son", ((???first name=mentioned in HAWKINS, PEGGY statement)

HAWKINS, PEGGY JOYCE BIGLER

HENDRIX, GEORGIA "Georgie" RUTH

HICKS, KARAN (or Karen) (Mrs. JAMES DANIEL)

HINE, GENEVA L.

HINE-"on telephone after attack", ((???first name=mentioned in HINE statement=woman)

HOLLIES, MARY MADELINE

HOLT, JEANNE "Jeanie" "Gloria"

HOPSON (nee Dixon), YOLA D. (Mrs. Oliver Hopson)

JACOB (or "Jacobs"), STELLA MAE

JARMAN, Jr., JAMES "Joe" EARL

JOHNSON, JUDY MARIE (Miss)

JONES, CARL EDWARD

JONES, SPAULDEN EARNEST

JUNKER, HERBERT LESTER

KAISER, FRANKIE

KOUNAS, DOLORES ARLEAN (Mrs. GEORGE ANDREW)

LAWRENCE, PATRICIA ANN (Miss)

LEWIS, RAY "Roy" EDWARD

LOVELADY, BILLY NOLAN

McCULLY, JUDITH "Judy" LOUISE

MOLINA, JOSEPH "Joe" RODRIGUEZ

NELSON, RUTH SMITH

NORMAN, HAROLD "Hank," "Shorty" D.

OSWALD, LEE HARVEY

PALMER, HELEN L. (Mrs.)

PARKER, ROBERTA (Mrs WILLIAM V.)

PIPER, EDWARD "Eddie"

REED, JERALDEAN "Carolyn"

REED, MARTHA (Miss)

REESE, MADDIE BELLE

REID, CAROLYN (Mrs. ROBERT A.)

RICHEY, BONNIE (Mrs. L. C.)

SANDERS, PAULINE (Mrs ROBERT E.)

SHELLEY, WILLIAM HOYT

SHIELDS, EDWARD

SIMMONS ("Nelson" after marrying), SHEARION "Sharon"

STANSBERG (or "Stansberry"), JOYCE MAURINE

STANTON, SARAH D.

STYLES, SANDRA

THORNTON, BETTY J.

TRULY, ROY SANSOM

VILES, LLOYD R.

WATLEY, LEE (Mrs.), (???first name=mentioned in HINE warrenatti testimony)

WEST, TROY EUGENE

WESTBROOK, KAREN

WESTER, FRANKLIN EMMETT

WHITAKER, LUPE "Lucy" (Mrs. H. G.)

WILLIAMS, BONNIE RAY

WILLIAMS, MARY "Marge" LEA

WILLIAMS, OTIS NEVILLE

WILSON, STEVEN F.

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/ROSE...NOUNCEMENT.html

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

"I remarked to Mr. Campbell who was standing near by that I thought the shots had come from our building. But I heard someone else say 'no, I think it was further down the street.' "

-TSBD employee/attack witness JERALDEAN "Carolyn" REID, who stood directly in front of the warrenatti, supposed, "snipers lair," in her earliest 11-23-63 DPD affidavit (CE2003, 24H223)

Edited June 7, 2005 by Don Roberdeau

[Don Roberdeau]

Good Day Steve.... Nice job.

I called Jim Conner yesterday after he provided me his phone number, but he has not returned the phone call yet.

Since I had no "Conner" on my list, I reasoned that either I have not come across her name, yet, or, she gave birth to "Jim Conner" sometime before getting married (re-married?) before 11-22-63, since Jim said he was in DP, also.

WHATLEY is/was mentioned on MASLAND's site (but the reference did not specify she worked at the TSBD)....

http://www.jmasland.com/cd-w.htm

....but I just checked Masland's title webpage, and there is a message from Masland that the site crashed, and is "down." Masland's email is/was info@jmasland.com

WHATLEY is also mentioned in CD706

Don Roberdeau

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John" Plank Walker

Sooner, or later, the Truth emerges Clearly

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/DP.jpg

http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/ROSE...NOUNCEMENT.html

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

"The shots came from the hill -- it was just east of the underpass. We were on the south side."

"I thought I saw this man running, but I looked at the President and, you know, for a while, and I looked up there and I thought I saw a man running, and so, right after that I guess I didn't have any better sense -- I started running there too"

---- JEAN HILL, close DP attack witness, in a "WBAP" tv with TOM WHALEN that was prerecorded a few minutes before the interview 1:21 PM Dallas time first-showing

Edited June 6, 2005 by Don Roberdeau

[Steve Thomas]

Don,

Good Day Steve.... Nice job.

I called Jim Conner yesterday after he provided me his phone number, but he has not returned the phone call yet.

According to Mary Ferrell's database, Vida Lee Whatley's signed statement is at CE 1381

That is 22H680

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/...Vol22_0355b.htm

In her statement, there is no mention of the Cubans or station wagon.

Steve Thomas

[Larry Hancock]

A few observations.

First, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but were not those 64 FBI interviews very tightly structured with specific questions. Basically they were looking for anybody who might have seen Oswald, specifically at the time of the shooting. I think this is the interview series that missed Oswald being seen in the lunchroom around 12:15. It was not an open ended investigation by this point in time.

Second, it certainly is not a Friday afternoon DPD interview where she would have opened up with what her son describes.... by the time of the FBI interview caution may have set in?

Beyond that I keep thinking about the fact that Bowers didn't even mention his notification of the police about the tramps in the RR car no anything about their capture.... in any of his interviews.

Having said that though, I hope her son is willing to engage in an in depth dialog so all the issues about what she did or didn't say when can be fully explored.

[Steve Thomas]

Larry,

A few observations.

First, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but were not those 64 FBI interviews very tightly structured with specific questions. 

Yes, I was very dissapointed not to find her name in the DPD Archives index.

Her son said that she had been "interviewed" by the DPD, but I guess that didn't include swearing out a notarized statement.

I would ask everyone to keep your eyes peeled in photographs taken behind the grassy knoll and see if you spot a cream colored 4-door Ford station wagon.

Steve Thomas

[Steve Thomas]

I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men.

I wrote the author of this posting and he replied with the

following concerning his mother:

"She described the men as both of Spanish or Cuban

extraction. At that time she had had little interplay with

either nationality. Many years later she worked for the

Immigration Dept. and felt that in retrospect that they were

more than likely Cuban. The car was a Ford, 4 door Station

Wagon with Texas license.(Cream colored)

She wrote the license number down and gave it to Mr.

Truly."

This is from the WC testimony of S.M. Holland - signal supervisor of the Union Terminal Railroad, who was working on the railroad overpass:

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, the only thing that I remember now that I didn't then, I remember about the third car down from this fence, there was a station wagon backed up toward the fence, about the third car down, and a spot, I'd say 3 foot by 2 foot, looked to me like somebody had been standing there for a long period. I guess if you could count them about a hundred foottracks in that little spot, and also mud upon the bumper of that station wagon.

Mr. HOLLAND - It was muddy, and you could have if you could have counted them, I imagine it would have been a hundred tracks just in that one location. It was just----

Mr. STERN - And then you saw some mud on the bumper?

Mr. HOLLAND - Mud on the bumper in two spots.

Mr. STERN - As if someone had cleaned his foot, or---

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, as if someone had cleaned their foot, or stood up on the bumper to see over the fence.

What kind of car did Jack Lawrence borrow?

from Mike Griffith. "Compelling Evidence."

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/g...from_front.html

Jack Lawrence and His Borrowed Car

About a month before the assassination, a man named Jack Lawrence was hired at Downtown Lincoln-Mercury, a Dallas car dealership that was only two blocks from Dealey Plaza. Lawrence got the job by providing job references from New Orleans. These references were later found to be phony. Lawrence was known as an ardent right-wing speaker, and reportedly had been an expert marksmen in the military. The night before the assassination, Lawrence borrowed a car from the dealership, saying he needed it for a date.

Lawrence did not show up for work in the morning. However, thirty minutes after the shooting, he came hurrying through the company's show room. He was pale and sweating and had mud on his clothes. He rushed into the men's room and threw up. He claimed he had been ill, and that he had tried to return the car but was forced to park it because of traffic. His co-workers became suspicious and called the police. Later, the car Lawrence had borrowed was found--it was discovered in the parking lot behind the wooden fence on the grassy knoll (Marrs 339-340; Groden and Livingstone 133-134).

Steve Thomas

[William Kelly]

I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men.

I wrote the author of this posting and he replied with the

following concerning his mother:

"She described the men as both of Spanish or Cuban

extraction. At that time she had had little interplay with

either nationality. Many years later she worked for the

Immigration Dept. and felt that in retrospect that they were

more than likely Cuban. The car was a Ford, 4 door Station

Wagon with Texas license.(Cream colored)

She wrote the license number down and gave it to Mr.

Truly."

This is from the WC testimony of S.M. Holland - signal supervisor of the Union Terminal Railroad, who was working on the railroad overpass:

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, the only thing that I remember now that I didn't then, I remember about the third car down from this fence, there was a station wagon backed up toward the fence, about the third car down, and a spot, I'd say 3 foot by 2 foot, looked to me like somebody had been standing there for a long period. I guess if you could count them about a hundred foottracks in that little spot, and also mud upon the bumper of that station wagon.

Mr. HOLLAND - It was muddy, and you could have if you could have counted them, I imagine it would have been a hundred tracks just in that one location. It was just----

Mr. STERN - And then you saw some mud on the bumper?

Mr. HOLLAND - Mud on the bumper in two spots.

Mr. STERN - As if someone had cleaned his foot, or---

Mr. HOLLAND - Well, as if someone had cleaned their foot, or stood up on the bumper to see over the fence.

What kind of car did Jack Lawrence borrow?

from Mike Griffith. "Compelling Evidence."

http://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/g...from_front.html

Jack Lawrence and His Borrowed Car

About a month before the assassination, a man named Jack Lawrence was hired at Downtown Lincoln-Mercury, a Dallas car dealership that was only two blocks from Dealey Plaza. Lawrence got the job by providing job references from New Orleans. These references were later found to be phony. Lawrence was known as an ardent right-wing speaker, and reportedly had been an expert marksmen in the military. The night before the assassination, Lawrence borrowed a car from the dealership, saying he needed it for a date.

Lawrence did not show up for work in the morning. However, thirty minutes after the shooting, he came hurrying through the company's show room. He was pale and sweating and had mud on his clothes. He rushed into the men's room and threw up. He claimed he had been ill, and that he had tried to return the car but was forced to park it because of traffic. His co-workers became suspicious and called the police. Later, the car Lawrence had borrowed was found--it was discovered in the parking lot behind the wooden fence on the grassy knoll (Marrs 339-340; Groden and Livingstone 133-134).

Steve Thomas

[Michael Clark]

On 6/1/2005 at 0:43 PM, Steve Thomas said:

I posted this on Lancer, but nobody seemed very interested.

This was posted on the Dallas Historical Society forum last week by a man named Jim Conner, who said that his mother, sister and brother-in-law worked at the TSBD. He said his brother-in-law was Billie Lovelady:

http://www.dallashistory.org/cgi-bin/webbb...g.pl?read=30530

Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer

Posted By: jim conner <pyrpinz@aol.com>

Date: Wednesday, 25 May 2005, at 2:51 p.m.

In Response To: Re: My Dad was a Dallas Police Officer (gene morris)

"Dear Gene:

After the incident, everyone at TSB was interviewed. My mother's story then and now has stayed the same. Her parking space was just behind the fence at the grassy knoll. When she arrived for work that morning, she confronted several men in a car parked in her parking spot. Being the fiesty, Scotch-Irish she was, she told them they were not supposed to be parking there. They ignored her and continued to involve themselves in removing packages from the trunk of their car. Packages she described as could have contained rifles. She went inside and reported the incident to the manager of TSB Mr. Truly.

Throughout the rest of the day no mention was made of the incident and when interviewed by DPD she told the same story. There was no SS followup, nor was FBI interested. They were much more interested in holding Billie Lovelady for three days. Finally when a photograph of the front steps of TSB, showing Billie and most of the crew, surfaced, they figured he could not have been in two places at the same time. For years after that they still pestered him, just certain that he was involved in some way."

I emailed Jim Conner and asked him if his mother ever told him what kind of car the men were in and if she had ever described the men. So far, Mr. Conner hasn't answered me.

Steve Thomas

Interesting account of Lovelady by a relative.

[Michael Clark]

"For years after that they still pestered him (Lovelady)"

It doesn't seem likely that they would pester him for years because they thought he was involved in the assassination. 

It seems more likely that they wanted him to keep his story straight as a witness.

Cheers, 

Michael

[Joe Bauer]

The story about Jack Lawrence is interesting.  Were the details of this story credibly investigated and found to be factually true?

This story of Lawrence is one of "so many" of unusually different and intriguing background characters somehow connected by location, activities, associations and even personal interactions with Oswald, Ruby and others and to the actual 11,22,1963 Dealey Plaza event in ways that are just so suspiciously strange, that in total, they force rational thinking minds to realize that it is highly improbable, illogical and damn near impossible that, in the least, there isn't much more to the JFK assassination story than simply an angry, frustrated, poverty stricken loner who just happened to decide to take out JFK because of 2 week notice luck Kennedy's motorcade was going to pass right under his workplace windows and he just happened to have a cheap scoped rifle on hand to do the job.

Jack Lawrence, Richard Case Nagell, Rose Cheramie, Roscoe White,  the list is just so long.

Then when you add "hundreds" of other witnesses  ( more normal, every day working background folks ) with first hand observations of these same things that almost always contradict the WC findings and conclusion, again, you are literally "forced" by logic and common sense to face and acknowledge the reality of this huge testimonial imbalance. 

Lee Bowers, Aaron Roland, Julia Ann Mercer, Vida Whatley, James Tague, Carolyn Walther, Dr. Eva Gangeles, Dr. Crenshaw, S. M. Holland, Sheriff Roger Craig, Albert Bogard, New Orleans and Clinton Louisiana witnesses ... again, this list of more normal background every day working folks with contradictory observations is just so massive, it can't be dismissed with reasonable logic.

It is this huge number reality that forces reasonable and rational thinking persons to logically doubt the WC official line.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Joe Bauer

[Tom Hume]

Excellent post, Joe, I share your outlook. 

 

And I’d be interested to know who’s done the deepest digging into Jack Lawrence.

 

Tom