Guest Tom Scully Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 ...Quality control at CTKA? It is a real mixed bag over there. I think that Alex Jones has a better understanding of the JFK assassination than the average fare that I read over at CTKA. For example, and this is a huge one- Alex Jones believes that Lyndon Johnson was a big player in the JFK assassination, as do I and many other JFK researchers. You don't find that over at CTKA, they are constantly poo-pooing that. It is a huge gap in the JFK critique in most articles posted at CTKA.... LBJ was merely a pawn in their game, and a well loved one, at that. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/16/us/16marks.html?_r=1L. H. Marks, 90, Dies; Helped Lyndon Johnson Get Rich By DOUGLAS MARTIN Published: August 16, 2006 ...When President Johnson’s body lay in state in the Capitol in 1973, Mr. Marks recalled Mrs. Johnson as saying “that the thing Lyndon hated was to be by himself.” He and other close friends gathered to keep overnight watch on the coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) An author has been proven to actually put words in dead people's mouths. That is not enough. An author has been proven to actually fake interviews with live people. That is not enough. An author was almost indicted by the local DA for fraud. That is not enough. An author then fled the country to escape legal action. That is not enough. An author's publisher then had to pulp 60,000 copies of a book. That is not enough. An author then does a deal with the Mossad to gain reentry into the USA. That is not enough. After such a deal, said author now begins to write almost exclusively on the Kennedys, or Kennedy related. That is not enough. The author then uses all of his previous techniques, in addition to just making stuff up completely. That is not enough. One might ask, as many are, what is enough to accept a writer as discredited? If Heymann admitted all of the above in a signed affidavit, would that do the trick? Correct. There is just too much stuff out that Robert and Jackie Kennedy were having an affair. And I think that is an important thing to understand. In fact, I think the evidence is overwhelming of it and I do not think that Heymann fabricated his whole book. If half of it is true, or even 1/4 of it, then RFK and Jackie were having a big time affair. Vii “Thereafter nearly every biographer of Bobby or Jackie, including volumes by Edward Klein, Christopher Anderson, Sarah Bradford, and Peter Evans, capitalized on my research and reported on the Bobby-Jackie affair, in certain instances adding new details to those already known.” p. 113 "Chuck Spalding, who remained close to the clan, told John F. Kennedy biographer Nigel Hamilton that Bobby and Jackie were involved almost to the end of Bobby's life, and that their liaison had helped to restore the First Lady's emotional health." Not to get too personal, Robert, but you seem to know little of grief. Having been the "honorary" uncle to a six year old boy who dropped dead on a playground in front of his classmates, after suffering a heart attack caused by a freakish tumor, and having planned the funeral, and served as a pall bearer, and eulogist, and having spent significant time with the family in the aftermath, I know quite a bit about it. And RFK and Jackie's close relationship was TOTALLY NORMAL, and not the least bit surprising. In the aftermath of intense family tragedy, intense relationships can develop. Jackie's world exploded in her face--LITERALLY--and yet, for her children, and her country, she HAD TO KEEP IT TOGETHER. To do that, she needed someone to support her, to prop her up. That person was Bobby. He pushed his job as AG aside, and said I have to take care of MY FAMILY--which now included Jackie, Caroline, and John-John. As a result, I have no doubt Jackie would have taken a bullet for Bobby, and Bobby for her. As far as Capote, etc, that was just bitchy gossip. Everyone wanted to be near Jackie, and yet she had an obvious fondness for Bobby, who they all considered a bit of a square. Thus, gossip. It saddens me that I have to explain this to you. As far as Heyman, Jimmy D is right. Years ago, I was reading through one of his books and came across a couple of quotes I found suspicious. They were conveniently attributed to dead people, with whom Heyman had supposedly talked to somewhere along the line. None of these people had said anything similar to anyone else. I thought, wow, if this is true, how come no one else has written about this. I then googled his name and found a number of comments online about what a serial fabricator he is. Think Lyndon Johnson. As a writer. And you have Heymann. Edited January 31, 2011 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 DA: Anecdotally, RFK is placed suspiciously close to the Marilyn Monroe death scene, by wiretappers and Teamster sources and a food chain of opportunistic authors. This is pure balderdash. RFK was in no way "suspiciously close to the MM death scene". Unless 600 miles is "suspiciously close". The guy was near San Francisco visiting a friend of his while speaking at a lawyers' function. There were witnesses to what he was doing at the time. According to Don Wolfe's book on Marilyn Monroe (and it is a very good book, written by a careful researcher) RFK was here in Los Angeles that night, and that is not a rumor or an urban legend. Wolfe's book starts with the incident of RFK and two others being pulled over on Sunset Boulevard for speeding (RFK was a passenger). Of course, that is just an assertion by an author, and so I followed up on the matter. Matters changed for me when I met the law partner of one of the car's passengers. I have known him for about a decade now and he is perfectly credible. His law partner, now deceased, was in that car. With Bobby. The officer pulled them over for speeding, saw that it was Bobby Kennedy, and let them go. Wolfe's book starts with this incident. And it moves on from there. (FYI: Don Wolfe had no idea that this corroboration existed when he wrote his book. Wolfe was relying on the police officer interviews that he had; and I assume that you are aware that there are one or more police officers who maintain that to be the case). Make of all this what you will. I am no "Marilyn Monroe" expert. But I don't see how the combined accounts of both the police officer(s) and the attorney, whose partner was in the car, can be easily discounted. Rather, I am somewhat skeptical of the RFK friend, in northern California, who was used as an alibi witness to place him up there, that entire evening. DSL 1/30/11; 1:15 PM PST Los Angeles, CA I am equally against disinformation and hagiography. I would like to goad the research community toward separating the two and quashing both, as Jim DiEugenio began to in his article. Jim Di: I'm checking sources for the responsible one that that says that RFK was with Peter Lawford and John Frankenheimer in LA on the Monroe death night. I'll get back to you. FWIW, LAPD Chief Daryl Gates, in his autobiography, says the LAPD kept track of all major figures arriving or departing LA International Airport, and that Robert Kennedy WAS in LA when MM was killed. While I wouldn't trust Gates on much, he might be telling the truth here. As I recall, he says the idea Bobby killed Marilyn is hogwash, but that Bobby was nevertheless in town that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Do the odds decrease that RFK flew to Los Angeles just 24 hours after he arrived at the Gilroy, CA ranch of John Bates, with his wife and four of his children, and then returned from LA to Gilroy to leave with his family on Sunday morning for San Francisco, if you become aware that RFK had been in LA to give a speech at the Statler Hilton, only the week before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zach Robertson Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Jim, Thanks for coming back into this atrocious thread for those last 2 comments. It was worth your time. Sex has NOTHING to do the JFK case. It was a REVENGE murder for the people who carried it out plain and simple. The people higher up on the food chain wanted JFK killed for other reasons but not for Sex. As for RFK staying quiet about the Warren Comm. findings, he did that to maneuver for a shot at the Presidency and for his own safety. He would never publically question the lone gunman theory for political gain NOT sex. It is not a coincidence that the day before he was killed he visited Oxnard Ca. Sorry if I disappointed all the Maury Povich fans out there. Zach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Morrow Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) An author has been proven to actually put words in dead people's mouths. That is not enough. An author has been proven to actually fake interviews with live people. That is not enough. An author was almost indicted by the local DA for fraud. That is not enough. An author then fled the country to escape legal action. That is not enough. An author's publisher then had to pulp 60,000 copies of a book. That is not enough. An author then does a deal with the Mossad to gain reentry into the USA. That is not enough. After such a deal, said author now begins to write almost exclusively on the Kennedys, or Kennedy related. That is not enough. The author then uses all of his previous techniques, in addition to just making stuff up completely. That is not enough. One might ask, as many are, what is enough to accept a writer as discredited? If Heymann admitted all of the above in a signed affidavit, would that do the trick? Correct. There is just too much stuff out that Robert and Jackie Kennedy were having an affair. And I think that is an important thing to understand. In fact, I think the evidence is overwhelming of it and I do not think that Heymann fabricated his whole book. If half of it is true, or even 1/4 of it, then RFK and Jackie were having a big time affair. Vii Thereafter nearly every biographer of Bobby or Jackie, including volumes by Edward Klein, Christopher Anderson, Sarah Bradford, and Peter Evans, capitalized on my research and reported on the Bobby-Jackie affair, in certain instances adding new details to those already known. p. 113 "Chuck Spalding, who remained close to the clan, told John F. Kennedy biographer Nigel Hamilton that Bobby and Jackie were involved almost to the end of Bobby's life, and that their liaison had helped to restore the First Lady's emotional health." Not to get too personal, Robert, but you seem to know little of grief. Having been the "honorary" uncle to a six year old boy who dropped dead on a playground in front of his classmates, after suffering a heart attack caused by a freakish tumor, and having planned the funeral, and served as a pall bearer, and eulogist, and having spent significant time with the family in the aftermath, I know quite a bit about it. And RFK and Jackie's close relationship was TOTALLY NORMAL, and not the least bit surprising. In the aftermath of intense family tragedy, intense relationships can develop. Jackie's world exploded in her face--LITERALLY--and yet, for her children, and her country, she HAD TO KEEP IT TOGETHER. To do that, she needed someone to support her, to prop her up. That person was Bobby. He pushed his job as AG aside, and said I have to take care of MY FAMILY--which now included Jackie, Caroline, and John-John. As a result, I have no doubt Jackie would have taken a bullet for Bobby, and Bobby for her. As far as Capote, etc, that was just bitchy gossip. Everyone wanted to be near Jackie, and yet she had an obvious fondness for Bobby, who they all considered a bit of a square. Thus, gossip. It saddens me that I have to explain this to you. As far as Heyman, Jimmy D is right. Years ago, I was reading through one of his books and came across a couple of quotes I found suspicious. They were conveniently attributed to dead people, with whom Heyman had supposedly talked to somewhere along the line. None of these people had said anything similar to anyone else. I thought, wow, if this is true, how come no one else has written about this. I then googled his name and found a number of comments online about what a serial fabricator he is. Think Lyndon Johnson. As a writer. And you have Heymann. No, Pat Speer, it is not NORMAL when you are a man with a wife and 10 childen to DUMP your family and spend a huge chunk of your time with your brother's widow and 2 children, while at the same time you are carrying on an AFFAIR with said widow. There are a lot of emotional needs in a family of 10 kids that a workaholic dad is probably not meeting anyhow... and then to shunt them aside and spend massive amounts of time on a sexscapade with the brother's widow is not "normal." What is normal - what the vast majority of Americans would do - is have the widow and kids spend a lot of time AT YOUR HOUSE with her kids playing with you kids ... not SEPARATE AND APART, while the widow and your wife are in engaging in some sort of sexual and emotional rivalry which the man is feeding with his selfish and dysfunctional behavior. It is also not normal to spend $12,000 on a jade Buddha decanter for the widow who you are having sex with. That is what men do for their girlfriends, not as part of a family plan to keep a widow and 2 kids emotionally intact. As for David Heymann: let's concede he is a xxxx, a fabricator, and basically not a good guy... Having said all that, in my opinion David Heymann is CORRECT in his thesis that Robert and Jackie Kennedy were having an intense post JFK assassination love/sex affair from 1964-1968. There is just too much evidence of it that supports Heymann. And I do not think Heymann is lying about everything. That is what I mean about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater as you search for truth. Edited January 31, 2011 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 An author has been proven to actually put words in dead people's mouths. That is not enough. An author has been proven to actually fake interviews with live people. That is not enough. An author was almost indicted by the local DA for fraud. That is not enough. An author then fled the country to escape legal action. That is not enough. An author's publisher then had to pulp 60,000 copies of a book. That is not enough. An author then does a deal with the Mossad to gain reentry into the USA. That is not enough. After such a deal, said author now begins to write almost exclusively on the Kennedys, or Kennedy related. That is not enough. The author then uses all of his previous techniques, in addition to just making stuff up completely. That is not enough. One might ask, as many are, what is enough to accept a writer as discredited? If Heymann admitted all of the above in a signed affidavit, would that do the trick? Correct. There is just too much stuff out that Robert and Jackie Kennedy were having an affair. And I think that is an important thing to understand. In fact, I think the evidence is overwhelming of it and I do not think that Heymann fabricated his whole book. If half of it is true, or even 1/4 of it, then RFK and Jackie were having a big time affair. Vii “Thereafter nearly every biographer of Bobby or Jackie, including volumes by Edward Klein, Christopher Anderson, Sarah Bradford, and Peter Evans, capitalized on my research and reported on the Bobby-Jackie affair, in certain instances adding new details to those already known.” p. 113 "Chuck Spalding, who remained close to the clan, told John F. Kennedy biographer Nigel Hamilton that Bobby and Jackie were involved almost to the end of Bobby's life, and that their liaison had helped to restore the First Lady's emotional health." Not to get too personal, Robert, but you seem to know little of grief. Having been the "honorary" uncle to a six year old boy who dropped dead on a playground in front of his classmates, after suffering a heart attack caused by a freakish tumor, and having planned the funeral, and served as a pall bearer, and eulogist, and having spent significant time with the family in the aftermath, I know quite a bit about it. And RFK and Jackie's close relationship was TOTALLY NORMAL, and not the least bit surprising. In the aftermath of intense family tragedy, intense relationships can develop. Jackie's world exploded in her face--LITERALLY--and yet, for her children, and her country, she HAD TO KEEP IT TOGETHER. To do that, she needed someone to support her, to prop her up. That person was Bobby. He pushed his job as AG aside, and said I have to take care of MY FAMILY--which now included Jackie, Caroline, and John-John. As a result, I have no doubt Jackie would have taken a bullet for Bobby, and Bobby for her. As far as Capote, etc, that was just bitchy gossip. Everyone wanted to be near Jackie, and yet she had an obvious fondness for Bobby, who they all considered a bit of a square. Thus, gossip. It saddens me that I have to explain this to you. As far as Heyman, Jimmy D is right. Years ago, I was reading through one of his books and came across a couple of quotes I found suspicious. They were conveniently attributed to dead people, with whom Heyman had supposedly talked to somewhere along the line. None of these people had said anything similar to anyone else. I thought, wow, if this is true, how come no one else has written about this. I then googled his name and found a number of comments online about what a serial fabricator he is. Think Lyndon Johnson. As a writer. And you have Heymann. No, Pat Speer, it is not NORMAL when you are a man with a wife and 10 childen to DUMP your family and spend a huge chunk of your time with your brother's widow and 2 children, while at the same time you are carrying on an AFFAIR with said widow. There are a lot of emotional needs in a family of 10 kids that a workaholic dad is probably not meeting anyhow... and then to shunt them aside and spend massive amounts of time on a sexscapade with the brother's widow is not "normal." What is normal - what the vast majority of Americans would do - is have the widow and kids spend a lot of time AT YOUR HOUSE with her kids playing with you kids ... not SEPARATE AND APART, while the widow and your wife are in engaging in some sort of sexual and emotional rivalry which the man is feeding with his selfish and dysfunctional behavior. It is also not normal to spend $12,000 on a jade Buddha decanter for the widow who you are having sex with. That is what men do for their girlfriends, not as part of a family plan to keep a widow and 2 kids emotionally intact. As for David Heymann: let's concede he is a xxxx, a fabricator, and basically not a good guy... Having said all that, in my opinion David Heymann is CORRECT in his thesis that Robert and Jackie Kennedy were having an intense post JFK assassination love/sex affair from 1964-1968. There is just too much evidence of it that supports Heymann. And I do not think Heymann is lying about everything. That is what I mean about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater as you search for truth. Sorry, Robert, but you are wrong on all counts. None of the evidence you have cited for an RFK/Jackie "Love Affair" has given any real indication, outside the minds of those inclined to believe vicious gossip, that the "affair" was a sexual one. Odds are, of course, that it was not. Not only did RFK and Ethel have kids AFTER the time you claim he was having an affair with Jackie, Jackie and Ethel were both at his bedside in Cedars after he was shot. Now, what are the odds of that IF Bobby and Jackie had had this passionate and reckless affair, as you claim? Pretty slim, I'd say. As far as the possibility RFK was in LA the night Marilyn died...sorry, Jim. While I don't necessarily believe Gates, I do know that Gilroy is only 36 miles from San Jose and can be reached in a half hour or so, not an hour. I also know that the Kennedys had plenty of access to private planes, etc, and that Hollister Municipal Airport is only 15 miles from Gilroy. So the "Airport was too far" argument just doesn't stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Morrow Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Pat Speer: "vicious gossip" to some; the ugly truth to others. As for RFK and Ethel having kids during the RFK/Jackie affair time period- that is irrelevant. Jack Kennedy had dozens of affairs while he was impregnating Jackie, through both of her miscarriages and having John and Caroline. Lots of men have all kinds of children while they are engaging in longterm affairs with their mistress or having numerous adulterous flings. As for Jackie and Ethel being at RFK's bedside at Cedar's. That makes sense - those were the women who RFK loved the most, except that he was more obsessed with Jackie. Also, a lot of these cheated on women live in denial or semi-denial. Except that I do not think Ethel was in denial; she was completely aware of the blatantly obvious affair, but chose not to address it because that option was too painful and traumatic. By the way, post-JFK assassination, Jackie Kennedy chose to take as one of her staff members Pamela Turnure, who JFK had been having an affair with. Pamela Turnure had been placed as Jackie's press secretary specifically to allow JFK easy access to her for sexual services. Cheated-on women often make all kinds of adaptions and compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David G. Healy Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Pat Speer: "vicious gossip" to some; the ugly truth to others. As for RFK and Ethel having kids during the RFK/Jackie affair time period- that is irrelevant. Jack Kennedy had dozens of affairs while he was impregnating Jackie, through both of her miscarriages and having John and Caroline. Lots of men have all kinds of children while they are engaging in longterm affairs with their mistress or having numerous adulterous flings. As for Jackie and Ethel being at RFK's bedside at Cedar's. That makes sense - those were the women who RFK loved the most, except that he was more obsessed with Jackie. Also, a lot of these cheated on women live in denial or semi-denial. Except that I do not think Ethel was in denial; she was completely aware of the blatantly obvious affair, but chose not to address it because that option was too painful and traumatic. By the way, post-JFK assassination, Jackie Kennedy chose to take as one of her staff members Pamela Turnure, who JFK had been having an affair with. Pamela Turnure had been placed as Jackie's press secretary specifically to allow JFK easy access to her for sexual services. Cheated-on women often make all kinds of adaptions and compromises. robert, Robert, ROBERT.... you NEED a girlfrind, hon! Q-U-I-C-K-L-Y! ! ! LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Blakey and Billings were quoting Asst FBI Director William Sullivan who wrote in his book....."Although Hoover was desperately trying to catch Bobby...red handed at anything, he never did......Kennedy was almost a Puritan. We used to watch him at parties,where he would order one glass of Scotch and still be sipping from the same glass two hours later. The stories about Bobby and Marilyn Monroe were just stories.The original story was invented by a so called journalist,a right wing zealot who had a history of spinning wild yarns.It spread like wildfire,of course,and J Edgar Hoover was right there, gleefully fanning the flames"...........page 427 paperback..."Fatal Hour" Frog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Blakey and Billings were quoting Asst FBI Director William Sullivan who wrote in his book....."Although Hoover was desperately trying to catch Bobby...red handed at anything, he never did......Kennedy was almost a Puritan. We used to watch him at parties,where he would order one glass of Scotch and still be sipping from the same glass two hours later. The stories about Bobby and Marilyn Monroe were just stories.The original story was invented by a so called journalist,a right wing zealot who had a history of spinning wild yarns.It spread like wildfire,of course,and J Edgar Hoover was right there, gleefully fanning the flames"...........page 427 paperback..."Fatal Hour" I plan on writing a book on the theory that Bobby was not a natural-born Kennedy but was adopted by the Kennedys as a child. Growing up watching his promiscuous father and brothers, Bobby often asks himself, "What kind of family have I gotten into?" After becoming attorney general, Bobby goes to a shrink because of a recurring problem that he can't deal with: "Marilyn Monroe keeps throwing herself at me." (The shrink says, "That's a problem?") Later Bobby comes back to the shrink, saying "Now Jackie is doing it too." I hope to find living witnesses to confirm my theory of this longstanding secret. If I can't find any, I'll just interview some dead people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Meredith Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Blakey and Billings were quoting Asst FBI Director William Sullivan who wrote in his book....."Although Hoover was desperately trying to catch Bobby...red handed at anything, he never did......Kennedy was almost a Puritan. We used to watch him at parties,where he would order one glass of Scotch and still be sipping from the same glass two hours later. The stories about Bobby and Marilyn Monroe were just stories.The original story was invented by a so called journalist,a right wing zealot who had a history of spinning wild yarns.It spread like wildfire,of course,and J Edgar Hoover was right there, gleefully fanning the flames"...........page 427 paperback..."Fatal Hour" I plan on writing a book on the theory that Bobby was not a natural-born Kennedy but was adopted by the Kennedys as a child. Growing up watching his promiscuous father and brothers, Bobby often asks himself, "What kind of family have I gotten into?" After becoming attorney general, Bobby goes to a shrink because of a recurring problem that he can't deal with: "Marilyn Monroe keeps throwing herself at me." (The shrink says, "That's a problem?") Later Bobby comes back to the shrink, saying "Now Jackie is doing it too." I hope to find living witnesses to confirm my theory of this longstanding secret. If I can't find any, I'll just interview some dead people. Ron: Thank you, you just made my day. B. too. Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Blakey and Billings were quoting Asst FBI Director William Sullivan who wrote in his book....."Although Hoover was desperately trying to catch Bobby...red handed at anything, he never did......Kennedy was almost a Puritan. We used to watch him at parties,where he would order one glass of Scotch and still be sipping from the same glass two hours later. The stories about Bobby and Marilyn Monroe were just stories.The original story was invented by a so called journalist,a right wing zealot who had a history of spinning wild yarns.It spread like wildfire,of course,and J Edgar Hoover was right there, gleefully fanning the flames"...........page 427 paperback..."Fatal Hour" I plan on writing a book on the theory that Bobby was not a natural-born Kennedy but was adopted by the Kennedys as a child. My research confirms this. Not only was Bobby adopted but he was the child of a teenage girl from Boston who had moved to Johnson City, Texas, in 1924, with her mother and who was impregnated by the teen-aged Lyndon Johnson. To avoid scandal the mother and daughter moved back to Boston in late 1925 and gave the child to the Kennedys to raise as one of their own. Bobby didn't find out about this until the Democratic Convention in 1960, when Lyndon confronted him with a stentorian -- "Robert, I am your father." LBJ blackmailed his way onto the 1960 Dem ticket with this bombshell. I'm still working on the names of the Boston teenager and her Mom, but I'm pretty sure some dead people will tell us all about it. Edited January 31, 2011 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Morrow Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) Blakey and Billings were quoting Asst FBI Director William Sullivan who wrote in his book....."Although Hoover was desperately trying to catch Bobby...red handed at anything, he never did......Kennedy was almost a Puritan. We used to watch him at parties,where he would order one glass of Scotch and still be sipping from the same glass two hours later. The stories about Bobby and Marilyn Monroe were just stories.The original story was invented by a so called journalist,a right wing zealot who had a history of spinning wild yarns.It spread like wildfire,of course,and J Edgar Hoover was right there, gleefully fanning the flames"...........page 427 paperback..."Fatal Hour" Frog Notice how former Asst. FBI Director William Sullivan does not comment on the possibility of a John Kennedy/Marilyn Monroe affair or how the FBI might know about one as the FBI was casting a massive surveillance net on many private citizens and politicians during the Hoover era. I would love to hear William Sullican talk about that or the thousands of "black bag operations" (illegal break-ins) that his field agents were conducting over the decades under Hoover. Things you can find in Wesley Swearingen's books: 1) FBI Secrets - http://www.amazon.com/FBI-Secrets-M-Wesley-Swearingen/dp/0896085015/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296519578&sr=1-1 2)To Kill a President - http://www.amazon.com/Kill-President-Finally-Ex-FBI-secrecy/dp/1419693824/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296519578&sr=1-2 Nor does William Sullivan comment on the possibility/probability of a Robert and Jackie Kennedy affair. Or any numerous other affairs of John or Robert Kennedy. Notice how Sullivan says they were "watching at parties" ... nothing about black bag operations, wired tapped phones, bugged rooms, etc. Guess he doesn't want to talk too much about that! Edited February 1, 2011 by Robert Morrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The bottom line is this: Robert Kennedy and Jackie Kennedy were having an intense love/sex affair from 1964-1968. There is just to much evidence of this to ignore it. I do think this RFK/Jackie love affair is extremely important to understanding them and their behavior. Many authors have commented on this torrid love affair, not just C. David Heymann. Bobby and Jackie: A Love Affair by C. David Heymann: http://www.amazon.com/Bobby-Jackie-C-David-Heymann/dp/141655629X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296367496&sr=8-1 I think that Robert and Jackie turned to each other in grief and were physical, emotional and sexual lovers. They were also having affairs with multiple other people at this same time. I do think that this affair played an extremely big part of RFK's life in the post JFK assassination period. Robert was once named Family Man of the Year and he had 11 children with Ethel. And he ran around on Ethel shamelessly like the sex addict that he was. I think as Ted Kennedy told George Smathers, that one big reason Robert did not do more to publicly (or privately) pursue his brothers' murderers was that he feared any undue attention on him or Jackie which might bust this affair out into the open. Also, I don't think that glorifying the Kennedys or ignoring their very human flaws does any good on revealing truth in the 1963 Coup d'Etat. You should always seek the truth: whether it is good, bad or ugly. And I think there is a very strong case (99%+) that Robert and Jackie Kennedy were having a love affair post JFK assassination. Notes from Bobby and Jackie: A Love Affair by C. David Heymann: p. Vii “Thereafter nearly every biographer of Bobby or Jackie, including volumes by Edward Klein, Christopher Anderson, Sarah Bradford, and Peter Evans, capitalized on my research and reported on the Bobby-Jackie affair, in certain instances adding new details to those already known.” p. 8 Jack Valenti describes Bobby Kennedy as a man possessed as he entered Air Force One on 11/22/63 as he rushed to Jackie’s side. RFK ignored everyone else and rushed by them. ....................... p. 25 Langdon Marvin admits JFK used to send him as an advance man on the 1960 campaign trail to line up women for Kennedy. .................... Heiress Weds .St. Joseph News-Press - Jun 21, 1959 Society girl Jean Shevlin smiles happily as she and Lt. Col. ... Iowa, police she was abducted by Langdon Marvin, a former suitor. In Minneapolis, Marvin ... Riviera-bound Heiress Leaves Suitor... Telegraph-Herald Petty Troubles in Washington Los Angeles Times - Apr 28, 1961 The other day, for instance, a fellow named Langdon P. Marvin Jr. caused ... free of charge, a room in the Library of Congress for something like 12 years despite . Fdr's Godson Gets Bum's Rush .Sarasota Journal - Aug 16, 1963 In return, Kennedy arranged office space for Marvin at he Library of Congress. Then Langdon began to get bad publicity. First, sever al Congressmen squawked ... One Kennedy Classmate Wears Out His... Spokane Daily Chronicle Merry-go-round .On White House Blacklist... Ocala Star-Banner Kennedy Gives Snub To Marvin .Former... Star-News http://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/29/obituaries/james-w-gerard-73-dies-a-retired-brigadier-general.html Published: June 29, 1987 Brig. Gen. James W. Gerard, a retired Army officer and real-estate executive, died of kidney failure on Saturday. He was 73 years old and lived in Manhattan and Luxembourg. General Gerard, who was born in Manhattan, attended Cambridge University and the University of Grenoble, each for a year. In 1937, he enlisted in the Army and served in World War II and the Korean War and on the staff of the Pentagon from 1952 to 1957. He retired in 1961. In 1975, he resumed his military career as commander of the Veteran Corps of Artillery of the State of New York and retired again in 1986. He and family members also owned Aeon Realty, a Manhattan holding company. He is survived by his wife, Jean, United States Ambassador to Luxembourg; a son, James W., of Washington; a daughter, Harriet C., of Manhattan, and three brothers, C. H. Coster Gerard, Sumner Gerard and John Train, all of Manhattan. Jean Gerard, 58, Reagan Envoy Who Led U.S. to Leave Unesco ...www.nytimes.com › COLLECTIONS › LAW DEGREE Aug 6, 1996 – Jean Broward Shevlin Gerard, who as America's permanent representative at Unesco played a key role in President Reagan's decision to pull ... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/01/national/01GERARD.html Published: March 1, 2005 Sumner Gerard, a former Montana cattle rancher and legislator who served as ambassador to Jamaica in the 1970's, died on Feb. 24 in Vero Beach, Fla. Mr. Gerard, 88, was a former resident of Montana and New York....... ......Mr. Gerard was a scion of an old New York family who gave their name to Gerard Avenue in the Bronx. He was born in Melville, N.Y., graduated from the Groton School, and received a B.A. in 1937 and an M.A. in 1939 from Trinity College, Cambridge University. In World War II, he served in the Army, the Navy and the Marine Corps, where he reached the rank of captain in intelligence. He became a principal in the family's real estate interests in Manhattan, Long Island and New Jersey, then called the Aeon Realty Company. After the war he also established himself in Montana business and Republican politics. He was a member of the State Legislature in the 1950's and 1960's, and served as minority leader in both houses. Mr. Gerard was a cattle rancher as well as a mining executive for Newmont Resources and a director of Cardinal Petroleum, both of Billings. In 1969, the Nixon administration sent him to Rome as a delegate to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization, after which he directed the American aid mission in Tunisia until 1974. He was ambassador in Jamaica from then until 1977. ...... ......Mr. Gerard was also divorced, in 2004, from his second wife, Teresa Dabrowska Gerard of New York. Also surviving are a brother, C. H. Coster Gerard, and a half-brother, John Train, both of Manhattan; and six grandchildren. 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