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James DiEugenio

The Stamp on the Military ID card

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This is an example of a Retired Military Dependent ID Card:

ID_Card.GIF

 

What does that tell us?

 

Edited by Chris Newton

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Tom Hume   

Well, it appears to tell us that Lee Oswald was carrying ID for a retired military person?

Good find. I don't recall anyone ever discovering this before.

 

 
Edited by Tom Hume

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Tom Hume   

So if I may jump to a conclusion, Chris, you’ve discovered that the Oswald ID card is a forgery.

I was going to give this a rest, but I can’t help myself. The line on Oswald’s card that tells “eye color”, “hair color”, “height”, and “weight”, reads:

“GREY, BROWN, 71”, 145”

Translating the numbers to letters, we get:

GREY BROWN HG OF”

And this anagrams to:

“RN 22 FORGE HOBBY”

“RN” would stand for “Richard Nagell”, and “22” was assassination day. 

Tom

 

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57 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:

Well, it appears to tell us that Lee Oswald was carrying ID for a retired military person?

The card I posted a link to may be specifically for a dependent of a military (retired?) person. The "retired" came from the source site and I question that part at the moment. The card number at the top starts with "AF", meaning that the Air Force was the branch of service. Oswald's card starts with "N", presumably for Navy. In the lower left corner is the current Service & Status of the sponsor, the linked card shows USA (U.S. Army?) and AD (Active Duty?).  Still a little confused about the different agencies issuing these but it is not the standard card for a retiree, I'm leaning toward that it is only issued to dependents.

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20 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:

 if I may jump to a conclusion, Chris, you’ve discovered that the Oswald ID card is a forgery.

 

That's you talking, I don't think I've "discovered" anything that other observant vets wouldn't have seen. Here's my late good friend Jack White's thoughts on the ID card:

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/W Disk/White Jack/Item 08.pdf

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If I recall correctly, did not the LaFontaines write about this in their book Oswald Talked?

I don't have that book does someone else?

Did not Doug Horne write about this also?  I do have that book but it has no index to it.  And its like 1400 pages long.

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On 8/23/2017 at 2:03 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Where the heck did that stamp come from?  And why?

 

Hey jim,

I have to assume that the ID had to have been sent to through the mail to the DoD. No "forger" would add a forged postage stamp and there is no mechanism to return the card to Oswald therefore someone got a hold of that cad and planted it as evidence. Who would be able to do that? Angleton? Someone has to bring it back to Dallas. Phillips?

Are we sure it was found in a wallet or did someone just say it was found in a wallet? Btw, I don't think Gen. Walker is getting that ID from the DoD.

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A very brief internet search tends to show that the ORANGE card was for DEPENDENTS....

But if it was MARINA'S card, it would naturally have HER name and photo.

What was LHO's "service number"?  Because the bottom line has number "1653230" as the service number of the SPONSOR of the person named on the card.

If we can figure out whose number the "1653230" was, we might get somewhere.

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Just a thought:

Was Marguerite Oswald considered a DEPENDENT of LHO, for military purposes related to his accelerated discharge?

Could this have begun as Marguerite's DD1173...and have been altered by LHO during his employment at JCS?

IMHO, this would be the ONLY way the LHO would have obtained a "dependent"/orange DD1173 with his own name/photo/signature on it.

Unless he actually WAS connected to some intelligence operation.

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16 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

If we can figure out whose number the "1653230" was, we might get somewhere.

Mark,

Service number 1653230 was assigned in the USMC enlistment contract to "Lee Harvey Oswald."  The Russian-speaking Oswald signed the contract on Oct. 24, 1956 in Dallas.

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Just now, Jim Hargrove said:

Mark,

Service number 1653230 was assigned in the USMC enlistment contract to "Lee Harvey Oswald."  The Russian-speaking Oswald signed the contract on Oct. 24, 1956 in Dallas.

CLEARLY, LHO wasn't his own "dependent."  And the 1959 issue date on the reverse tells us that it wasn't issued for Marina.

Therefore, in 1959, the ONLY "dependent" LHO had, in the eyes of the military in 1959, was Marguerite Oswald.

So this card HAD to have begun its life as MARGUERITE OSWALD's card.

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3 hours ago, Mark Knight said:

CLEARLY, LHO wasn't his own "dependent."  And the 1959 issue date on the reverse tells us that it wasn't issued for Marina.

Therefore, in 1959, the ONLY "dependent" LHO had, in the eyes of the military in 1959, was Marguerite Oswald.

So this card HAD to have begun its life as MARGUERITE OSWALD's card.

Mark, I like that logic. Good work. I haven't ever encountered dependents that were parents, but I suppose there could have been some strange "injury" related claim going on. . Also, it still doesn't explain the post office stamp, and how it was returned to get "discovered".

edit note: I think someone needs to be a "dependent" in a legal sense for the military to recognize and offer benefits to that person.

Edited by Chris Newton

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From what I can discern, that card was taken from Oswald on the way to the station after his arrest at the Texas Theater.

I think it originated with Judy Bonner, the woman who had inside ties to the Dallas police and wrote that book Investigation of a Homicide. 

But  it is also in the Archives.

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DD Form 1173

currently issued to:

-Dependents of: active-duty Service members of the regular components; Reserve component Service members on active duty for more than 30 days; retirees; Medal of Honor recipients; former members in receipt of retired pay; Transitional Health Care Members (TAMP); 100% Disabled American Veterans (DAV); and Ship's Officers and Crewmembers of NOAA Vessels

-Surviving dependents of: active-duty and retired military members; Medal of Honor recipients; and 100% Disabled American Veterans (DAV)

-Accompanying family members of authorized civilian personnel overseas

-Eligible dependents of foreign military

-Other benefits-eligible categories as described in DoD policy

 

http://navyadministration.tpub.com/14214/css/Dd-Form-1172-82.htm

Edited by Chris Newton

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