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The Stamp on the Military ID card


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5 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

If that happened, Sandy, wouldn't the text etc., be reversed?

That's usually what happens.

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I think we are getting away from my question.

Oswald really was issued a card when he left Santa Ana.

So how could this be a forgery?  I mean did he lose it and then did he himself make a mock up?

Why did he not just ask for a replacement?  But also, what about the expiration date?  Why would he still carry it around after the expiration?

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
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I’m pretty sure that the photo on Oswald’s DD 1173 and the photo on the Alek James Hidell Selective Service card are different photographs. I propose that they are a pair of stereo images taken at the same instant with a Stereo Realist camera that was turned approximately 90 degrees to the left. Therefore, to view the 3-D pair of images, they must be rotated 90 degrees to the left. Using an old-fashioned Stereoscope, the photo from the Selective Service card would be on the left, and the DD 1173 photo on the right. 

With a few differences, a similar technique was used in CE 133A and 133C to make a pair of stereo images, and the 3-D of Oswald’s back yard is stunning. Since there are no background images in these card photos, the 3-D effect is not as dramatic.

Later this afternoon, or possibly tomorrow, I’ll post some instructions about how I think one should go about setting up this pair of stereo images. Sorry, I’m not able to post images right now - Photobucket’s new ransom policy. 

Sandy, if you still have your Stereoscope and are interested in this, send me your email in a PM and I’ll send you some stereo images to look at.  

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13 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Oswald really was issued a card when he left Santa Ana.

Jim,

We don't know why he'd get a card at all. I never had a card when I was "Inactive".

Active reservists have a reserve obligation like the National Guard, they need an ID. Inactive reservists have no need for an ID.

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That is another interesting aspect of it.

Other members of his troop got cards.  But they did not get that card which, as we know, is a dependent card.

So, if you can wrap your head around it. the excuse was they ran out of paper and issued Oswald that color one.

I am pretty sure it says that in Horne's report.

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Chris,

From your illustrations of Soviet passport photos, it looks to me that you could make the case that the LHO photo on his suspect DoD ID card was actually created, and processed, by a Russian passport authority.  Would you agree with that statement?  Is it possible that the circular stamps were created mostly to obscure the tell-tale Soviet circular inset in the bottom right portion of the photo?  Terrific discovery!

This thread clearly suggests that the ID card was as phony as a three dollar bill.  I think we should also consider the possibility that it wasn't the card found in Oswald's wallet, but was faked after the assassination.  But why?

Megathanks to Jim Di for bringing this all up.
 

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3 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

...you could make the case that the LHO photo on his suspect DoD ID card was actually created, and processed, by a Russian passport authority.  Would you agree with that statement?

I'm leaning that way. I think the original photo was removed and the photo we see was added to the card at a later date. The circular stamps may be an effort by the "forger" to legitimize the current photo to make it seem it that it "belongs" there. I don't think the stamps are real "postal cancellation stamps" and that combined with the general good condition of the card makes me think it was not processed through the USPS. The text on the card is suspicious and I don't have a good explanation for how Oswald would have acquired it.

According to the La Fontaines, the card baffled Lt. Ayers and the Marine Corp spokesman at the time, when it was brought to their attention.

Nonetheless it's a significant discovery that was not addressed by the WC or the HSCA.

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44 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

But Chris,  why would the Russians do that?

I mean it does explain the Minsk photo, but do you think Oswald then created it in Russia?

Again, why?

I agree. If Oswald created it, why make a card that, as you pointed out earlier in this thread,  has already expired? I don't know where he created it or even if he did. It's interesting that Oswald apparently used it after he was arrested in New Orleans in August, 1963. The report of FBI Special Agent Kaack suggests that the card indicated Oswald's dates of service, which it clearly does not. I'd have to assume the card would not have had an "October 23, 1963" stamp on it in August so was this a different card that was shown then? Could someone else have read this report and then decided to make their own version of this same ID for another purpose? (framing LHO?),

I don't know.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1134#relPageId=788&tab=page

Edited by Chris Newton
puntuation
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46 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

I mean it does explain the Minsk photo, but do you think Oswald then created it in Russia?

Hey Jim, actually I don't know anything about the "Minsk" photo other than it has 2 (or 3?) versions with Oswald dressed differently (?) in each one? What's the picture's actual/alleged provenance? Fill us in. Thanks.

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As an aid to looking at the "stamps" on the ID, I cropped out a lot of the extraneous information and blocked the photo out. The black rectangle covers the photo along it's "east" and "south" border.

black_crop_1.jpg

I noticed a mark that I can't identify that seems to be behind the "Minsk" photo. You can see the mark just touching the left of the "O" in "OCT" and again between the photo and the margin of the box numbered "4".

There also seems to be mark through the pillar of the letter "T" in OCT".

Edited by Chris Newton
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Here's another oddity. It seems the Warren Commission simply stated that this photo was taken in Minsk and provided no report, citation or testimony to support that allegation. Another words, we don't know exactly where it came from. The Commission got it's published copy from Oswald's ID but...

The Commission copy has a left corner that is totally white without any markings and the ID copy has plenty of markings, some lettering and things we cannot yet work out in that corner. Is this a case of "what came first, chicken or egg?".

How is the corner of the Warren Commission copy so blank?

How do they "know" it was taken in Minsk?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1142&relPageId=382

Edited by Chris Newton
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6 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

I think the original photo was removed and the photo we see was added to the card at a later date.

But why would anyone bother to do that?

If it is true that the original photo was changed, what was unacceptable about the original photo?

Could the original photo have shown a face that is not the same as the face we currently associate with Oswald?

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