Unaltered Zapruder film

[Michael Walton]

21 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

So William Reymond and Rich Dellarosa were lying?  They were describing in detail something they saw that doesn't exist?

And Dino Brugioni didn't create briefing boards showing events that are very different from the extant Z film?  He was lying about the hours he and his associates spent with a version of the film, working in detail for several hours to create a separate set of briefing boards overnight Saturday 2-23 / Sunday 2-24?

They describe in detail "what it could possibly show other than the 26 sec shooting sequence".  But they are all lying?

Not lying. Just wrong.  Clearly wrong. All part of the vast conspiracy du jour way of thinking. An example - when David Josephs says that there had to be two Oswalds because, well, there's one photo of LHO with non-sloping shoulders and there's another photo that shows him with sloping shoulders, well, there just HAD TO BE two Oswalds, Josephs isn't lying.  He's just wrong.

Another example - when Chris D says that the film is fake because Zapruder hurried up and turned on the 48 FPS switch on his camera when the car went by, and then when the secret agent took the 48 FPS film and excised 67% of those frames, he's not lying.  He's just wrong.

A third example is when Jim Hargraves promotes the same Oswald clone story, that secret agents found an Oswald look alike youth 10 years before the assassination.  This youth, from Hungary, looked exactly like the Dallas Oswald and even this Hungarian boy's Mom looked exactly like the Dallas Oswald's Mom - except she was frumpy and never smiled. And the secret agents let this clone and his Mom live almost in the Dallas Oswald's shadows. Jim, Sandy, Dave et al are not lying - they're just wrong.

A fourth example is when Chris D says a shot came over spectators' head from over in the pavillion area of Dealey Plaza and hit JFK. He's not lying.  He's just wrong.  And amazingly David Josephs agrees with me on this and also said Chris D is wrong. But of course David Josephs never EVER posts goofy animated GIFs for these guys.  He only posts them for me and others who he can't stand when we call him out on his silliness and multitude of silly theories.

Do you understand what I'm saying now?

 

[Rick McTague]

9 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Not lying. Just wrong.  Clearly wrong. All part of the vast conspiracy du jour way of thinking. An example - when David Josephs says that there had to be two Oswalds because, well, there's one photo of LHO with non-sloping shoulders and there's another photo that shows him with sloping shoulders, well, there just HAD TO BE two Oswalds, Josephs isn't lying.  He's just wrong.

Another example - when Chris D says that the film is fake because Zapruder hurried up and turned on the 48 FPS switch on his camera when the car went by, and then when the secret agent took the 48 FPS film and excised 67% of those frames, he's not lying.  He's just wrong.

A third example is when Jim Hargraves promotes the same Oswald clone story, that secret agents found an Oswald look alike youth 10 years before the assassination.  This youth, from Hungary, looked exactly like the Dallas Oswald and even this Hungarian boy's Mom looked exactly like the Dallas Oswald's Mom - except she was frumpy and never smiled. And the secret agents let this clone and his Mom live almost in the Dallas Oswald's shadows. Jim, Sandy, Dave et al are not lying - they're just wrong.

A fourth example is when Chris D says a shot came over spectators' head from over in the pavillion area of Dealey Plaza and hit JFK. He's not lying.  He's just wrong.  And amazingly David Josephs agrees with me on this and also said Chris D is wrong. But of course David Josephs never EVER posts goofy animated GIFs for these guys.  He only posts them for me and others who he can't stand when we call him out on his silliness and multitude of silly theories.

Do you understand what I'm saying now?

 

I think I do, David.  Those who disagree with the LN theory are all wrong.  Those who present evidence disproving it are all wrong.  Yes, I understand that is what you are saying.

Do you understand that you are saying that the government would never lie to the American people, they only tell the truth, they would never cover up the truth, they would never stoop to alter evidence and witness testimony, they would never blame the entire affair on one guy then cover up for it all these years?

[Chris Davidson]

9 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Another example - when Chris D says that the film is fake because Zapruder hurried up and turned on the 48 FPS switch on his camera when the car went by, and then when the secret agent took the 48 FPS film and excised 67% of those frames, he's not lying.  He's just wrong.

A fourth example is when Chris D says a shot came over spectators' head from over in the pavillion area of Dealey Plaza and hit JFK. He's not lying.  He's just wrong.  And amazingly David Josephs agrees with me on this and also said Chris D is wrong. But of course David Josephs never EVER posts goofy animated GIFs for these guys.  He only posts them for me and others who he can't stand when we call him out on his silliness and multitude of silly theories.

Do you understand what I'm saying now?

 

This, coming from a person who can't explain the visible lack of brain debris exiting the rear of JFK's head on the extant Zfilm.

Nor, the incredible speed at which Jackie moves back into her seat with her elbow planted on the trunk lid.

Maybe old Mr Zapruder pressed downward 1/4" and filmed a few more frames than he thought.

For those that are counting impaired, there is a frame counter in the lower left part of the 48fps film.

No, Chris D. realized his LOS mistake and duly corrected it by informing people of the new LOS.

More reading necessary, then you can understand what I'm saying.

But, I'm not counting on it.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tIR2rrNCmu2Mb8nLJB-ZGkXGGii5ktrO/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CFdpSs8Bt4f-GVJOCOl2wDXdpu-uNjQX/view?usp=sharing

 

 

[Michael Walton]

27 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

I think I do, David ???.  Those who disagree with the LN theory are all wrong.  Those who present evidence disproving it are all wrong.  Yes, I understand that is what you are saying.

Do you understand that you are saying that the government would never lie to the American people, they only tell the truth, they would never cover up the truth, they would never stoop to alter evidence and witness testimony, they would never blame the entire affair on one guy then cover up for it all these years?

It's got nothing to do with the "government always being honest and never telling a lie." We know that that is not true. Who runs the government? People. Who runs industry? People. And yes, people do lie.  They also come up with nutty conspiracy theories with no basis on plausibility or logic to them.

But - it's important to not make an over-arching comment on what I said above.

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Rick McTague said:

Hey bud.  Being a "Super Member" doesn't qualify you to state what I'm trying to say.

Save your time and breath Rick....   annoying little pests tend to stick around believing they are changing the world around them...  it creates an amazingly tiny world view.  As a lurker I'm sure you've seen what I mean...   I'm not sure what standing on a soap box screaming "I can't understand" does for one's psyche, especially in a room full of people who know better... but hey, even annoying little pests need a life.

2 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

David, 

Thanks - I try to reply only where I feel I can contribute something to the conversation; I've been a "lurker" for several months now....

I recall growing up in the 60's-70's that the American public were fed exactly what Cronkite, Hunter, Brinkley, and later Rather, Brokaw, Jennings and their managing editors at ABC/CBS/NBC wanted us to hear.  Can you say Mockingbird?  The advent of cable and now the "alternative media" provide for open discussion of facts rather than spin.

"Your mouthpiece squawks as he spreads your lies, but you can't pull strings if your hands are tied." - John Lennon, Steel and Glass

The coverup was made possible by this; I would dare say that a majority of LN's and those who actively work the coverup long for the day when government controlled the message.  Even LBJ implied as much regarding the need for LHO to be the sole gunman with the sole gun firing the sole bullets at JFK and Tippet.  If the WC was allowed to do a proper investigation, and the truth became known, it would have caused chaos.  Since the government was able to control the message and the evidence, then they could control the outcome of the WC and create this LN fantasy, which the majority of Americans at the time would swallow. With the release of records over the years, we can now see the extent of the coverup and how far our government went to deceive the trust of her people.  That, to me, is the second most heinous aspect of this - trust betrayed.  The first is, of course, the coup that took place 11-22-63.

 

Not sure if you've ever read Salandria's FALSE MYSTERY...  I recommend it highly.  

This is from his conversations with Gaeton Fonzi

            "I'm afraid we were misled," Salandria said sadly.  "All the critics, myself included, were misled very early.  I see that now.  We spent too much time and effort micro-analyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy.  Don't you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way?  They chose not to.  Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner.  The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny.  The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear:  'We are in control and no one -- not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official -- no one can do anything about it.'  It was a message to the people that their government was powerless.  And the people eventually got the message.  Consider what has happened since the Kennedy assassination.  People see government today as unresponsive to their needs, yet the budget and power of the military and intelligence establishment have increased tremendously.

            "The tyranny of power is here.  Current events tell us that those who killed Kennedy can only perpetuate their power by* promoting social upheaval both at home and abroad.  And that will lead not to revolution but to repression.  I suggest to you, my friend, that the interests of those who killed Kennedy now transcend national boundaries and national priorities.  No doubt we  are dealing now with an international conspiracy.  We must face that fact -- and not waste any more time micro-analyzing the evidence.  That's exactly what they want us to do.  They have kept us busy for so long.  And I will bet, buddy, that is what will happen to you.  They'll keep you very, very busy and, eventually, they'll wear you down."

51 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

They describe in detail "what it could possibly show other than the 26 sec shooting sequence".  But they are all lying?

No Rick, the people we are talking about are as far removed from lying about this as they come...

Search the forum for a thread called MATH RULES...  With the help of evidence not easily available to the public, CD determined that CE884 describes a path which is north of the actual one enough so that all the changes and alterations and speeds could be averaged out...

It's quite complicated until the light bulb goes off... and even then it's complicated....

I'll leave you with these two bits...  when finally in May of 1964 when they were redoing the motorcade enactment yet again for a survey the limo is placed in a most strange position... POSITION A.  This in turn related to STATION C where "the limo WOULD have turned" of Houston to Elm.   This is a composite of zframe 133 and CE886... Position A is where the B&W limo stand-in is... 

 

https://www.maryferrell.org/archive/docs/001/1134/images/img_1134_288_200.jpg is CE585 showing the location of 3 shots hitting their target....

 

 

and moved the 2nd shot from CE585 to the corre3ct elevation and station for Z313...  Luckily evidence was left behind showing this and how different it was from the final report's conclusions....

Special thanks to Chris Davidson and Tom Purvis for Robert West's survey notes....

 

 

 

 

 

[Jamey Flanagan]

I have another question for you Michael Walton. Do you think any of the assassination films or photographs were tampered with? Not even talking about the autopsy photos, just of the assassination itself or Dealey Plaza just before or just after actual shots were fired. Because careful analysis of the visual "evidence" of the various films and photographs shows discrepancies amongst each other. Remember, if they were tampered with then those doing the alterations are gonna focus primarily on the limo and getting those matched up. Therefore many of the discrepancies between them have to do with the crowd. One may show a certain number of people in one area, another shows a completely different number. You may see spectators in one but not see them in another supposedly taken at the exact same time. One may show all white people while another shows some white and some black. And so on and so on. So I'm just curious as to whether you believe any of the visual records of the actual assassination scene have been altered. I want to thank everyone for this discussion. Debate is healthy. And always keep an open mind but follow where the evidence leads you instead of having preconceived notions.

[Ray Mitcham]

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

That's just it Rick - there IS no other film.

It's clearly explained above in my previous post.  Of course, if you want to believe that there is a second, third, or however many "other" films out there, that's your right. But where is this film? Where is it? Think about it! What could it possibly show other than the 26 sec shooting sequence?  This, too, I've asked over and over again but no one - NO ONE - has ever given a logical or plausible answer here.

If you or anyone here cannot even begin to state with any plausibility WHAT this other film showed, then it's a no-brainer. It doesn't exist.

Have a look at what Dan Rather saw in the Zapruder film. What he says is certainly not what we see in the extant film.

 

 

 

[Jamey Flanagan]

Excuse me if I'm wrong but didn't Zavada also rule the autopsy photos as unaltered? If that is the case then I put no stock whatsoever in his professional opinion. I saw an interview he did and all of a sudden out of nowhere he starts bashing the film JFK saying that the only truth in the film was that the President was assassinated. So right there we see his preconceived mindset. Which the authenticity of the Z film has little bearing on if there was a conspiracy and multiple shots. Not that authenticity isn't important but meaning even if the current Z film was authentic then a conspiracy is still obvious.

[Rick McTague]

33 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Have a look at what Dan Rather saw in the Zapruder film. What he says is certainly not what we see in the extant film.

 

 

 

Excellent point, Ray.  Unlike the others who described what they saw in the "other" Z film, Rather certainly had a personal/corporate reason to not tell the truth.  This event - covering the assassination - launched his career in the MSM.  The proof of his obedient capacity to lie to the public in this role was provided when he lied about GWB's National Guard record.  The others had nothing to gain by lying about what they saw which leads me to believe they were being truthful in their accounts; none of them describe JFK's head being violently thrust forward.  Trusting the MSM is to trust the machine behind it.

[B. A. Copeland]

Its interesting...this whole "z-film alteration" I'm shocked some believe in wholesale alteration or fakery and I've never believed that personally but IF I were to lean in any direction of the film being altered or edited, I'd lean towards the belief that certain parts or frames were edited or taken out but I'm even reserved on that. I like to use the analogy of the film being a witness and being silenced or having her/his testimony changed lol....it happened to witnesses.....why not one of the biggest and most important witnesses there is? Of course this is just my thinking out loud on the subject...I also forget the guy at the JFK conference in Alexandria, VA who worked for Time? He had mentioned not remembering anything significant about the film other than the fact that in the film he saw, you could see JFK's motorcade literally turn from Houston onto Elm? I mean I'm not sure how accurate the guy is, etc, but it is what he said.

Edited February 15, 2018 by B. A. Copeland

[David Josephs]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 12:33 PM, Jamey Flanagan said:

Excuse me if I'm wrong but didn't Zavada also rule the autopsy photos as unaltered? If that is the case then I put no stock whatsoever in his professional opinion. I saw an interview he did and all of a sudden out of nowhere he starts bashing the film JFK saying that the only truth in the film was that the President was assassinated. So right there we see his preconceived mindset. Which the authenticity of the Z film has little bearing on if there was a conspiracy and multiple shots. Not that authenticity isn't important but meaning even if the current Z film was authentic then a conspiracy is still obvious.

I think you're talking about Doug Horne who says they were not so much altered as they were staged.

Pulling the scalp over the gaping hole for example...

And if there really was no alteration to those photos... they conflict with the x-rays, which we KNOW were altered, retaken and replaced... (Dr. Ebersol ARRB)

Based on that X-ray, there's nothing above the right eye over to the nasal cavity and back to the middle of his head...  and look also over the LEFT eye as Father Huber described....

Zavada was Kodak... Horne was the medical evidence...  I tend to believe Doug for a lot of reasons...  what the actual question needs to be is:

Are these the actual autopsy photos, photos developed by S. Spencer? taken by Knudsen? Reibe? Stringer?

 

 

 

And I'd like to offer you an image that sometimes help me see Bethesda more clearly...  I left it as I finished it for sentimental reasons...

Feel free to ask about it if you need...

DJ

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 1:05 PM, B. A. Copeland said:

Its interesting...this whole "z-film alteration" I'm shocked some believe in wholesale alteration or fakery and I've never believed that personally but IF I were to lean in any direction of the film being altered or edited, I'd lean towards the belief that certain parts or frames were edited or taken out but I'm even reserved on that. I like to use the analogy of the film being a witness and being silenced or having her/his testimony changed lol....it happened to witnesses.....why not one of the biggest and most important witnesses there is? Of course this is just my thinking out loud on the subject...I also forget the guy at the JFk conference in Alexandria, VA who worked for Time? He had mentioned not remembering anything significant about the film other than the fact that in the film he saw, you could see JFK's motorcade literally turn from Houston onto Elm? I mean I'm not sure how accurate the guy is, etc, but it is what he said.

Great to see you B.A.   

Suspend what you believe and what you know for a moment...  about the Zfilm.

At the time of the filming of the assassination, can we agree that the Phase we were still in was #1 - Oswald part of a conspiracy to kill JFK. 

Bullets could fly from any direction, or they could only come from the conspiracy connected Oswald in the 6th floor window.  What we can conclude from the weight of the evidence is that at least a single shot came from in front of JFK creating a result on film - the end of which we see in the extent film.

There remains strong physical and circumstantial evidence for a shot or shots from the sewer and/or south knoll as well as somewhere behind the limo (Which thanks to C Davidson's work is starting to come into focus).  IOW the conspiracy part of the plot included Oswald and comrades...

The film, as Dino so plainly put it, showed 6-8 shots from 3-4 directions.... and IMO this film is already altered from the one copy in DC Friday night... (0184 IMO)

Anyway, if the film shows that many shots,  the briefing boards from NPIC that we have from Homer's work group has as many as 6 different frames on which shots are identified.

The frames identified were 190, 206, 213, 242, 264, and 312   - the bold ones being the only two allowed.  The obviousness of frame 223 with a shot hitting JC is excluded.  NPIC agreed on 242 rather than LIFE's 264 yet since they did not agree with z190 due to the length of the delayed reaction, both 206 and 213 did not leave enough time to fire again by 242....

This was not so much a study of the film as a reverse engineering of the acceptable story based on the alteration of the film...

PHASE 2 comes into being sometime Friday afternoon after the call from the White House...  

Who now, along the chain of evidence would be aware enough of this change, or to plan on this change to Lone Nut - to do something about the films and photos and where along this timeline and chain is there a film which simply DISAPPEARS to history...  the stamped 0183 is not on the extent original - if that alone does not convince anyone that something happened to this actual original between development and analysis I am truly at a loss.   The claim is the film is UNALTERED... yet the most basic aspects of the film's creation are simply not there...

Ask David Healey... when you refilm the altered version and develop it without the stamping of a number.... then cut it down to the 6+ feet of actual assassination film... claiming this as "original" seems pretty large leap of faith that the same groups who messed with every item of evidence, simply left this alone...

(side note BA... only Zapruder, Nix, Muchmore and Bronson have images of the shooting.  Still photos of the right moments are limited to a small handful....  The FBI/DPD/CIA/??? acquired these films and cameras and photos with impunity... except for Zapruders?  He gets handled with kid gloves... )

 

 

 

 

 

Max Philips sends an 8mm version of the complete film to his boss Chief ROWLEY in DC Friday eve....    Of the 3 prints 0185 0186 0187 2 are given to Sorrels.

The THIRD is forwarded.   Except Zapruder is supposed to have 0183 and the best copy...  Sorrels give 1 of his copies to FBI SA Kelley; and in every timeline so far he supposedly gives this other film to ??? to get it to Phillips to get to DC....  In other words SA Sorrels puts the only SS copy left in his possession on a plane to Rowley leaving himself and the other agents no film to review at all...   We are to remember that Sorrels left Zapruder and does not receive the film(s) until much later

 

Mr. SORRELS - He is a salesman for the Ford Co. on West Commerce Street--Mr. Willis.
And so he said, yes, that he would be glad to furnish me with a copy of the pictures.
At that time, I made a phone call to my office, because I had not been in contact with them since we had departed from Love Field. I was informed that an FBI agent had called the office and said that Captain Fritz of the Homicide Bureau had been trying to get in touch with me, that he had a suspect in custody.
Mr. STERN - About what time was that?
Mr. SORRELS - That would be fairly close to 2 o'clock, I imagine.
Mr. STERN - About an hour after you had returned----
Mr. SORRELS - Yes. I would say that it was at least that long--maybe a little bit longer.
So when I got that information, I told Mr. Zapruder that I would contact him later and get the pictures, because I wanted to get right down to Captain Fritz' office.
 

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, Mr. Zapruder, after you had the film developed I understand Mr. Sorrels from the Secret Service came over and helped you get the films developed and you gave two copies of your films to Mr. Sorrels, is that correct?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes. One we have sent to Washington the same night and one went over for the viewers of the FBI on Ervay Street.
Mr. LIEBELER - That's the Secret Service?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - The Secret Service--I brought one roll there and they told me to dispatch it by Army plane or I don't know what they had done with it but it was supposed to have gone to Washington and one of them, I believe, remained here with Mr. Sorrels. He came to my office quite a few times to show them to different people.
Mr. LIEBELER - Now, I understand that you, yourself, retained the original film?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No; I don't have that at all--I don't have any at all. They were sold to Time and Life magazines.

 

Strange stuff...   Zapruder goes to the Secret Service "I brought one roll there" where they ask him to dispatch it...   except Sorrell's report has him going to Zapruder...  With one roll going to DC and Sorrels keeping one we are now asked to accept that 1) Sorrels gives his one remaining copy to the FBI and2) sends a copy rather than the original to DC.

Mrs. Z tells us differently... and with this conflict in the evidence over who, when and how the film gets to the airport - the idea the SS is left all night without their own copy to analyze seems a bit, well - wrong.  Add the note from Phillips claiming the THIRD print is forwarded in already split format and as one long film suggests to me that 0184 may have indeed been printed and was the version of the film which went to DC that night...

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by David Josephs

[Jamey Flanagan]

8 hours ago, David Josephs said:

 

 

  "I'm afraid we were misled," Salandria said sadly.  "All the critics, myself included, were misled very early.  I see that now.  We spent too much time and effort micro-analyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy.  Don't you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way?  They chose not to.  Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner.  The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny.  The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear:  'We are in control and no one -- not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official -- no one can do anything about it.'  It was a message to the people that their government was powerless.  And the people eventually got the message

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Jamey Flanagan

[Jamey Flanagan]

That's what gets lost on most people. The shadow government had a special kind of contempt for the Kennedys. They had plenty of blackmail material on JFK. They could have went another route to get rid of the Kennedys but chose not to. Watergate was possibly a bloodless coup to remove Nixon. The bankers plot to seize power from FDR that only failed thanks to Smeadley Butler. They wanted to kill him in the most brutal fashion to send a message. And only covered it up enough to avoid prosecution. But left trails of bread crumbs for those in the know to follow and see what happens to those who cross them.

[B. A. Copeland]

21 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Great to see you B.A.   

Suspend what you believe and what you know for a moment...  about the Zfilm.

At the time of the filming of the assassination, can we agree that the Phase we were still in was #1 - Oswald part of a conspiracy to kill JFK. 

Bullets could fly from any direction, or they could only come from the conspiracy connected Oswald in the 6th floor window.  What we can conclude from the weight of the evidence is that at least a single shot came from in front of JFK creating a result on film - the end of which we see in the extent film.

There remains strong physical and circumstantial evidence for a shot or shots from the sewer and/or south knoll as well as somewhere behind the limo (Which thanks to C Davidson's work is starting to come into focus).  IOW the conspiracy part of the plot included Oswald and comrades...

The film, as Dino so plainly put it, showed 6-8 shots from 3-4 directions.... and IMO this film is already altered from the one copy in DC Friday night... (0184 IMO)

Anyway, if the film shows that many shots,  the briefing boards from NPIC that we have from Homer's work group has as many as 6 different frames on which shots are identified.

The frames identified were 190, 206, 213, 242, 264, and 312   - the bold ones being the only two allowed.  The obviousness of frame 223 with a shot hitting JC is excluded.  NPIC agreed on 242 rather than LIFE's 264 yet since they did not agree with z190 due to the length of the delayed reaction, both 206 and 213 did not leave enough time to fire again by 242....

This was not so much a study of the film as a reverse engineering of the acceptable story based on the alteration of the film...

PHASE 2 comes into being sometime Friday afternoon after the call from the White House...  

Who now, along the chain of evidence would be aware enough of this change, or to plan on this change to Lone Nut - to do something about the films and photos and where along this timeline and chain is there a film which simply DISAPPEARS to history...  the stamped 0183 is not on the extent original - if that alone does not convince anyone that something happened to this actual original between development and analysis I am truly at a loss.   The claim is the film is UNALTERED... yet the most basic aspects of the film's creation are simply not there...

Ask David Healey... when you refilm the altered version and develop it without the stamping of a number.... then cut it down to the 6+ feet of actual assassination film... claiming this as "original" seems pretty large leap of faith that the same groups who messed with every item of evidence, simply left this alone...

(side note BA... only Zapruder, Nix, Muchmore and Bronson have images of the shooting.  Still photos of the right moments are limited to a small handful....  The FBI/DPD/CIA/??? acquired these films and cameras and photos with impunity... except for Zapruders?  He gets handled with kid gloves... )

 

 

 

Max Philips sends an 8mm version of the complete film to his boss Chief ROWLEY in DC Friday eve....    Of the 3 prints 0185 0186 0187 2 are given to Sorrels.

The THIRD is forwarded.   Except Zapruder is supposed to have 0183 and the best copy...  Sorrels give 1 of his copies to FBI SA Kelley; and in every timeline so far he supposedly gives this other film to ??? to get it to Phillips to get to DC....  In other words SA Sorrels puts the only SS copy left in his possession on a plane to Rowley leaving himself and the other agents no film to review at all...   We are to remember that Sorrels left Zapruder and does not receive the film(s) until much later

Mr. SORRELS - He is a salesman for the Ford Co. on West Commerce Street--Mr. Willis.
And so he said, yes, that he would be glad to furnish me with a copy of the pictures.
At that time, I made a phone call to my office, because I had not been in contact with them since we had departed from Love Field. I was informed that an FBI agent had called the office and said that Captain Fritz of the Homicide Bureau had been trying to get in touch with me, that he had a suspect in custody.
Mr. STERN - About what time was that?
Mr. SORRELS - That would be fairly close to 2 o'clock, I imagine.
Mr. STERN - About an hour after you had returned----
Mr. SORRELS - Yes. I would say that it was at least that long--maybe a little bit longer.
So when I got that information, I told Mr. Zapruder that I would contact him later and get the pictures, because I wanted to get right down to Captain Fritz' office.
 

Mr. LIEBELER - Now, Mr. Zapruder, after you had the film developed I understand Mr. Sorrels from the Secret Service came over and helped you get the films developed and you gave two copies of your films to Mr. Sorrels, is that correct?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes. One we have sent to Washington the same night and one went over for the viewers of the FBI on Ervay Street.
Mr. LIEBELER - That's the Secret Service?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - The Secret Service--I brought one roll there and they told me to dispatch it by Army plane or I don't know what they had done with it but it was supposed to have gone to Washington and one of them, I believe, remained here with Mr. Sorrels. He came to my office quite a few times to show them to different people.
Mr. LIEBELER - Now, I understand that you, yourself, retained the original film?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No; I don't have that at all--I don't have any at all. They were sold to Time and Life magazines.

 

Strange stuff...   Zapruder goes to the Secret Service "I brought one roll there" where they ask him to dispatch it...   except Sorrell's report has him going to Zapruder...  With one roll going to DC and Sorrels keeping one we are now asked to accept that 1) Sorrels gives his one remaining copy to the FBI and2) sends a copy rather than the original to DC.

Mrs. Z tells us differently... and with this conflict in the evidence over who, when and how the film gets to the airport - the idea the SS is left all night without their own copy to analyze seems a bit, well - wrong.  Add the note from Phillips claiming the THIRD print is forwarded in already split format and as one long film suggests to me that 0184 may have indeed been printed and was the version of the film which went to DC that night...

 

Hey there Dave and a humble thanks as always for your deep analysis. This’ll be a joy to peel through and reflect on.