Unaltered Zapruder film

[Ron Bulman]

5 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

I forgot to mention that some of those maps were also Russian language maps.

Guess who had a working knowledge of Russian, having recently returning from Russia?

 

 

Steve Thomas

Yes, it all fits together TOO well in my mind.  A guy with a dishonorable discharge from the Marines who defected to Russia.  Said he was going to denounce his U S citizenship and at one point threatened to give the Russians "secret" information (U2 > Gary Powers shot down???).  Back in the USA all is forgiven and forgotten.  Hired to work with top secret photographs.  It sure makes it look like the hands of intelligence were all over him.

Sorry, the song popped into my head while I was typing.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=beatles+back+in+the+ussr+&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=90fa9983cf324f79851a8720164b65f2&sp=-1&pq=beatles+back+in+the+ussr+meaning&sc=2-32&qs=n&sk=&cvid=90fa9983cf324f79851a8720164b65f2

[Rick McTague]

On 2/13/2018 at 3:09 PM, David Josephs said:

Jamey...  a small handful of researchers describe an account of seeing a "zapruder-type" film which was shown to them - each for different reasons.
I post a direct quote/post from one of those who did.... and I believe youtube has content from 1 or more of the others...

The descriptions here relate very well to an "unaltered" version of the Z-film given the specific items seen which are not on the extant version.

You'll have to excuse Mr. Walton and his penchant for posting pure opinion when asked for facts... and for arguing the opposite of something, anything, despite not fully grasping or even referring to the lengthy analysis done to date....   the late Rich Dellarosa was one...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRhcQI4tFTI

You'll find a batch of good videos to watch related to this other film and the general knowledge of what occurred.
Search this forum and you will find some amazing advances in our understanding of what the FBI did to FUBAR the survey and description of the situation...

The Evidence will only show you what occurred within the Conspiracy.... what actually happened - as you say - is a 1000 piece puzzle of which we only have 750 pieces, many of which are not even from this puzzle....  make seeing a picture very difficult.

Something worth knowing and many forget, is that Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall, Inc, where Oswald worked a short time, was a highly competent photographic facility...  And you'd never believe how close it was to FBI HQ on ERVAY & MAIN.

Although most of its contracts were with commercial businesses and advertising agencies, it also had contracts with the military.  It handled super-secret projects for the Navy Bureau Materiel and the Army Mapping Service. [14] It set the type that would be used to label the landmarks of strategic maps of foreign countries, including coastlines, sea bottoms, and bds. According to George Carter, a reporter for the Dallas Times Herald, JCS was the one that did the maps of Cuba and Oswald was one of the employees that worked on them. This is confirmed by the timecards, which show that he had in fact participated in the work on these secret projects. On October 16, four days after he was hired, he did a camera job for the Army Mapping Service (AMS). This would have been at the very height of the Cuban Missile Crisis. If the timecards can be trusted on this point, Oswald did fifteen more camera jobs for A M S throughout his employment at the company.

In the film that I saw the limo came into view on Houston Street and the entire turn onto Elm was visible. There was no "splice" or point where the limo suddenly
appeared on Elm out of nowhere. The limo made an extremely wide turn onto Elm and was moving very slowly at the corner. The limo "drifted" to the left of center
(driver's POV) on Elm St. I don't recall if it actually made a complete lane change or if it was simply "pointed" more or less "left of center" -- My best recollection
is that it was partially in the left lane and partially in the center lane by the time it reached the steps leading up the Grassy Knoll next to the so-called Zapruder
pedestal. Similar to what is seen in the extant film, JFK had been hit at least once by the time the limo emerged from behind the Stemmon's sign, elbows raised
up, his torso apparently frozen, his "protection" inexplicably absent...a sitting duck.

There is absolutely no question as to whether or not the limo came to a complete and FULL stop. The car stopped. Completely. No motion whatsoever. The limo
remained motionless for approximately 2 seconds. I'm surprised the Queen Mary didn't rear-end it. The head shot most obviously came from the right front. A
detail that is missing from the motion of JFK in the extant film has to do with the difference between: "back and to the left" --and--"up, then fall to the left".
My recollection is that he was "lifted up" from his seat to a discernible degree before falling to his left. This "body motion" appeared to be much slower than the jerky,
abrupt, "snap" seen in the extant film.

Rich had a few items that I didn't recall and vice versa. For instance, unlike what Rich reported, I don't recall a shot from behind that caused JFK's head to move forward
initially just before the fatal head shot from the front. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I just may not have registered that for whatever reason. I also recall that
several Secret Service Agents climbed out of the Queen Mary with (what appeared to be) automatic weapons drawn apparently looking to return fire. They appeared to
be very disoriented. Then they climbed back in and sped off. There was a considerable gap between the time the X-100 sped off and the Queen Mary sped off. Rich
did not recall the agents climbing out of the limo.

FWIW, The "up, then fall to the left" is how Bill Newman described the head shot; he said that JFK "stood up".  Later, after viewing the extant Z film, he recanted and said he must have been mistaken.

[David Josephs]

7 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

FWIW, The "up, then fall to the left" is how Bill Newman described the head shot; he said that JFK "stood up".  Later, after viewing the extant Z film, he recanted and said he must have been mistaken.

Give some minor credibility to a shot from the sewer...  which would lift him up slightly...  

And now with Chris' work... there were 2 shots at that time... either one might have been a shot from that angle... but that's only speculative...

"the shots sounded street level" .....

[Jamey Flanagan]

Exactly Rick McTague! I think in this instance with all of the evidence tampering go back and really pay attention to the closest witnesses at the time. Especially when there are corroborating witnesses. Only in the past decade or so has it been a popular belief that the current Z film isn't authentic. Some still stick to their guns, especially when they have staked their careers on theories that revolve around the Z film timeline of events. But I would say that these days the majority of serious researchers know that it has been altered. How many witnesses in the past have been dismissed entirely because what they said and lo and behold the film showed completely different events. In the words of Yoda "You must unlearn what you have learned" 😀 We need to go back to the basics. To the beginning. Pour over first day testimony that we can consider truths knowing that the alterations exist. 

[Michael Walton]

On 2/13/2018 at 9:38 PM, Jamey Flanagan said:

So, let me ask you this Michael Walton, and not condescendingly but really wanting to know. Is it of your opinion that the current Zapruder film has not been doctored in any way other than the "Oops, we accidentally damaged the film in these spots"? And if that is your honest opinion then we must assume that you think Zapruder was either lying or "misremembering" when he said he started filming and never stopped and started back. And that you believe there are no limo stops whatsoever unless you count a very slight, almost imperceptible breaking. And Greer turns his head back twice in the span of an eighteenth of a second or possible twice that time. Am I correct so far? If you are questionable about any of that and the film has been doctored in any way and for any reason then why wouldn't it be a reasonable leap of logic to question anything and everything about the film? So much of what is seen in the film has NEVER been described by eyewitness accounts. I have yet to hear an eyewitness describe the violent backwards head snap seen on film. That would be kind of hard to miss. And the fact that the spray of blood and brains from the fatal headshot (or headshots if you ascribe to the two shot there from behind and then a frontal) dissipates in record time. What is it seen for? One frame? Two? Enough brain matter and blood to splatter Jackie and the rear motorcycle officer? Just curious as to your thoughts on those issues?

James, don't take my word for it.  Read Jeff Carter's articles about the film here (4 parts):

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/alexandra-zapruder-26-seconds-a-personal-history-of-the-zapruder-film-part-1

Amazingly, Dave "everything's been faked" Josephs has the "utmost respect" for Carter probably because Carter was published on Kennedys and King and so was Josephs (you know, one of those "like me" kind of deals). Well, I *was* published there but not with a byline LOL.

If this is still not enough, then read the Zavada report.  These people actually touched and handled the existing film.  Conclusion - no alterations:

http://rochester.nydatabases.com/story/zavada-report-jfk-assassination-evidence

If this is still not enough, then look at this synched film from two different angles shot by two different people. They match perfectly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEXZyMJMtA

Download each and every frame of the film here:

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/

View each frame one at a time. You be the judge.

The "it's all faked" crowd here hate it - hate it - when I post this kind of stuff and revert to the usual:

"your inexperience regarding Z-film study is noted. Without loon nut, blind support of the extant Z-film (currently housed at NARA under the control of the 6th Floor Mausoleum), well, let's just say, the Z-film is the lynch-pin of the 1964 WCR LHO's did all by his lonesome. Without it, the WCR case collapses... of course, its suspect, of course, it's going to be scrutinized. You know NO bounds, lad! 20 years behind times... I sense a WCR support conversion, soon!"

Ask yourself - why was the film as we see it today suppressed from the public until 1975? Why did Dan Rather lie about what he saw in the film on 11/25/63 on live TV (you can find this on YTV) - but they still wouldn't show it to the public?  Think about it.  If the film had been altered to hide conspiracy, then why not show it?  Instead they did the opposite - the film was too explosive, too obvious that more than one shooter was involved.  So they did the easiest thing - they didn't show it to the public.

It's that simple. But of course the "experts" here will argue the opposite - it was faked; it was trimmed; the wall of the building in the background looks suspicious; the film was shot at 48 FPS then 67% of the frames were removed...and a whole bunch of other malarkey. 

[David Josephs]

 

[Rick McTague]

15 hours ago, Jamey Flanagan said:

Exactly Rick McTague! I think in this instance with all of the evidence tampering go back and really pay attention to the closest witnesses at the time. Especially when there are corroborating witnesses. Only in the past decade or so has it been a popular belief that the current Z film isn't authentic. Some still stick to their guns, especially when they have staked their careers on theories that revolve around the Z film timeline of events. But I would say that these days the majority of serious researchers know that it has been altered. How many witnesses in the past have been dismissed entirely because what they said and lo and behold the film showed completely different events. In the words of Yoda "You must unlearn what you have learned" 😀 We need to go back to the basics. To the beginning. Pour over first day testimony that we can consider truths knowing that the alterations exist. 

Another aspect of this view from Bill Newman is the perception at the time that "the government wouldn't lie to the American people".  So - he changed what he saw with his own eyes to match what he was shown in the extant Z film.  I tend to believe first hand witnesses in Dealy Plaza and Parkland over anything that was taken, hidden, owned by the government or her fronts (i.e. Life Magazine). Thinking people cannot discount Horne's uncovering what Dino B witnessed for HOURS at NPIC the weekend after the assassination.  It has obviously been altered to more closely fit the LN theory.

[David Josephs]

On 2/15/2018 at 10:33 AM, Rick McTague said:

Another aspect of this view from Bill Newman is the perception at the time that "the government wouldn't lie to the American people".  So - he changed what he saw with his own eyes to match what he was shown in the extant Z film.  I tend to believe first hand witnesses in Dealy Plaza and Parkland over anything that was taken, hidden, owned by the government or her fronts (i.e. Life Magazine). Thinking people cannot discount Horne's uncovering what Dino B witnessed for HOURS at NPIC the weekend after the assassination.  It has obviously been altered to more closely fit the LN theory.

You touch on one of the most important and overlooked aspects of analyzing this case...  (and yes, some of my posts ramble, hopefully by way of illustration and metaphor my point is conveyed...)

Nice to see new members posting, btw, welcome to the Forum.

What a citizen mindset was in 1963 towards the police, FBI, Government, etc...  At this point in time there were no such things as Conspiracies in the USA (According to Allen Dulles and his book recommendations) the Police were there to serve and protect... the FBI?  the CIA?  Those letters stuck fear in most people's minds... fear and obedience...

That certain people cannot understand the layers involved in a professionally planned operations is not the fault of the rest of us...  but these same people believe one way or the other based on the information available to them...   that people cannot grasp the extent of evil the Dulles brothers help create with "The Wise Men" is again, to ignore history.

 

Did CIA Director William Casey really say, "We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false"?

Barbara Honegger, studied at Stanford University Answered Nov 25, 2014

I am the source for this quote, which was indeed said by CIA Director William Casey at an early February 1981 meeting of the newly elected President Reagan with his new cabinet secretaries to report to him on what they had learned about their agencies in the first couple of weeks of the administration.  
The meeting was in the Roosevelt Room in the West Wing of the White House, not far from the Cabinet Room.  I was present at the meeting as Assistant to the chief domestic policy adviser to the President.  Casey first told Reagan that he had been astonished to discover that over 80 percent of the 'intelligence' that the analysis side of the CIA produced was based on open public sources like newspapers and magazines.  

Simply aint gonna learn what you dont wanna know...

 

These US Military forms are designed to establish a cover backstop...  and if some people would take the time to look at some of the new documents... (or any old for that matter) the sheer number of informants, double agents, triple agents, and the way in which the CIA/Military Intel operated... more people were on a different agenda than what appeared that anyone can possibly know...  (and as I've felt, the Military was much more the global SPYING ORGANIZATION than the CIA... I believe the CIA was created to take focus from the intelligence work of the Military - the ONI is the oldest intel office in the USA ...  A little understanding of that history helps quite a lot)

On March 23, 1882, the Department of the Navy issued General Order No. 292, which established an office of intelligence within the Bureau of Navigation. The order defined the fundamental purpose of this new agency, a purpose that would remain the same for the next sixty years: to collect and record such information as may be useful to the Navy Department in both war and peace. While "information" was implied to mean the maritime technology, strategy, and policy of foreign navies, the Office of Naval Intelligence(ONI) would broaden that definition to include any information that might involve the security of the naval establishment and the nation at large. This broader definition would eventually involve ONI in all manner of espionage, both at home and abroad, against far more than just foreign navies, to include civil rights groups, labor unions, and peace movements, among many others with the most tenuous of links to naval matters¹

And on the heels of the ONI we get the MID: 

In his memoirs, Ralph Van Deman claims that the 1885 establishment of a military intelligence division under the Adjutant General was the result of the Secretary of War asking for information on a foreign nation.s military might and learning that nothing was known about it. Whether this was the germination of the Army.s first headquarters level intelligence organization, or whether the War Department simply saw a need to build a military reference room to house the influx of reports being written by touring military observers, this event is accorded the significance of being the beginning of an MI establishment within the U.S. Army

======================

To think that in 1963, the height of the Cold War - each day was not filled with amazing activity and conspiracy to forward someone's agenda.. is to simply disregard man's history.

FDR was supported in power by his vast family connections to Wall Street and Banking...
Prior to the end of WW2 and the creation of the CIA from the OSS/SIS/ONI/MID etc...  FDR and family had lived thru and understood the Wilson Administration with the creation of the FED and the growth of the Council on Foreign Relations and the causes for the Great Depression...

In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt
 

=======================

 

Both sides engage in the Art of War in order to forward their own ends...  those who embraced Sun Tzu dominated...

 

All warfare is based on deception.   Written in the 5th Century BC

XIII. The Use of Spies

1. Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss on the people and a drain on the resources of the State. The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces of silver. There will be commotion at home and abroad, and men will drop down exhausted on the highways. As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded in their labor.

2. Hostile armies may face each other for years, striving for the victory which is decided in a single day. This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height of inhumanity.

3. One who acts thus is no leader of men, no present help to his sovereign, no master of victory.

4. Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond the reach of ordinary men, is foreknowledge.

5. Now this foreknowledge cannot be elicited from spirits; it cannot be obtained inductively from experience, nor by any deductive calculation.

6. Knowledge of the enemy's dispositions can only be obtained from other men.

7. Hence the use of spies, of whom there are five classes: (1) Local spies; (2) inward spies; (3) converted spies; (4) doomed spies; (5) surviving spies.

8. When these five kinds of spy are all at work, none can discover the secret system. This is called "divine manipulation of the threads." It is the sovereign's most precious faculty.

9. Having local spies means employing the services of the inhabitants of a district.

10. Having inward spies, making use of officials of the enemy.

11. Having converted spies, getting hold of the enemy's spies and using them for our own purposes.

12. Having doomed spies, doing certain things openly for purposes of deception, and allowing our spies to know of them and report them to the enemy.

13. Surviving spies, finally, are those who bring back news from the enemy's camp.

14. Hence it is that which none in the whole army are more intimate relations to be maintained than with spies. None should be more liberally rewarded. In no other business should greater secrecy be preserved.

15. Spies cannot be usefully employed without a certain intuitive sagacity.

16. They cannot be properly managed without benevolence and straightforwardness.

17. Without subtle ingenuity of mind, one cannot make certain of the truth of their reports.

18. Be subtle! be subtle! and use your spies for every kind of business.

19. If a secret piece of news is divulged by a spy before the time is ripe, he must be put to death together with the man to whom the secret was told.

20. Whether the object be to crush an army, to storm a city, or to assassinate an individual, it is always necessary to begin by finding out the names of the attendants, the aides-de-camp, and door-keepers and sentries of the general in command. Our spies must be commissioned to ascertain these.

21. The enemy's spies who have come to spy on us must be sought out, tempted with bribes, led away and comfortably housed. Thus they will become converted spies and available for our service.

22. It is through the information brought by the converted spy that we are able to acquire and employ local and inward spies.

23. It is owing to his information, again, that we can cause the doomed spy to carry false tidings to the enemy.

24. Lastly, it is by his information that the surviving spy can be used on appointed occasions.

25. The end and aim of spying in all its five varieties is knowledge of the enemy; and this knowledge can only be derived, in the first instance, from the converted spy. Hence it is essential that the converted spy be treated with the utmost liberality.

26. Of old, the rise of the Yin dynasty was due to I Chih who had served under the Hsia. Likewise, the rise of the Chou dynasty was due to Lu Ya who had served under the Yin.

27. Hence it is only the enlightened ruler and the wise general who will use the highest intelligence of the army for purposes of spying and thereby they achieve great results. Spies are a most important element in water, because on them depends an army's ability to move.


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by David Josephs

[David Josephs]

25. The end and aim of spying in all its five varieties is knowledge of the enemy; and this knowledge can only be derived, in the first instance, from the converted spy. Hence it is essential that the converted spy be treated with the utmost liberality. 

THIS is what most of Mexico City and the documentation is mostly about....   Azcue among many was a prime target for conversion.

Just sayin'

[Rick McTague]

David, 

Thanks - I try to reply only where I feel I can contribute something to the conversation; I've been a "lurker" for several months now....

I recall growing up in the 60's-70's that the American public were fed exactly what Cronkite, Hunter, Brinkley, and later Rather, Brokaw, Jennings and their managing editors at ABC/CBS/NBC wanted us to hear.  Can you say Mockingbird?  The advent of cable and now the "alternative media" provide for open discussion of facts rather than spin.

"Your mouthpiece squawks as he spreads your lies, but you can't pull strings if your hands are tied." - John Lennon, Steel and Glass

The coverup was made possible by this; I would dare say that a majority of LN's and those who actively work the coverup long for the day when government controlled the message.  Even LBJ implied as much regarding the need for LHO to be the sole gunman with the sole gun firing the sole bullets at JFK and Tippet.  If the WC was allowed to do a proper investigation, and the truth became known, it would have caused chaos.  Since the government was able to control the message and the evidence, then they could control the outcome of the WC and create this LN fantasy, which the majority of Americans at the time would swallow. With the release of records over the years, we can now see the extent of the coverup and how far our government went to deceive the trust of her people.  That, to me, is the second most heinous aspect of this - trust betrayed.  The first is, of course, the coup that took place 11-22-63.

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Rick McTague

[Michael Walton]

17 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

FWIW, The "up, then fall to the left" is how Bill Newman described the head shot; he said that JFK "stood up".  Later, after viewing the extant Z film, he recanted and said he must have been mistaken.

Nowhere in the existing film does he "stand up" and that's why witness statements are one of the weakest parts of any investigation.  Watch some true detective shows on YTV where seasoned investigators say the exact same thing.

What you're trying to say here is because a witness saw something then changed his/her mind, it proves that the other evidence like the film has been altered. Nothing could be further from the truth. But this is pretty much how other "researchers" here treat the available evidence which leads to all kinds of crazy and erroneous conclusions.

Edited February 15, 2018 by Michael Walton

[Rick McTague]

5 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Nowhere in the existing film does he "stand up" and that's why witness statements are one of the weakest parts of any investigation.  Watch some true detective shows on YTV where seasoned investigators say the exact same thing.

What you're trying to say here is because a witness saw something then changed his/her mind, it proves that the other evidence like the film has been altered. Nothing could be further from the truth. But this is pretty much how other "researchers" here treat the available evidence which leads to all kinds of crazy and erroneous conclusions.

Hey bud.  Being a "Super Member" doesn't qualify you to state what I'm trying to say.  My comments were directly related to the observances of the other Z film as noted, not the "existing film" with all of its obvious edits.  And what I DID say was that the prevailing attitudes of the times - that the government would never ever lie to the American people - caused a reliable, reasonable, lucid witness to question what he saw with his own two eyes after seeing the extant Z film.

Speaking of "crazy and erroneous conclusions" - this is a perfect encapsulation of every aspect of the LN theory.

[Michael Walton]

3 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

observances of the other Z film as noted

That's just it Rick - there IS no other film.

It's clearly explained above in my previous post.  Of course, if you want to believe that there is a second, third, or however many "other" films out there, that's your right. But where is this film? Where is it? Think about it! What could it possibly show other than the 26 sec shooting sequence?  This, too, I've asked over and over again but no one - NO ONE - has ever given a logical or plausible answer here.

If you or anyone here cannot even begin to state with any plausibility WHAT this other film showed, then it's a no-brainer. It doesn't exist.

[David Andrews]

What could it possibly show other than the 26 sec shooting sequence?

The turn of the limo onto Elm Street.  We can surmise that this is cut from the extant Z-film because there is no light flash recorded on the film between the motorcycles entrance sequence and the limo entrance sequence.  Because of a design flaw in that model camera, every restart was signaled by this flash frame.

[Rick McTague]

33 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

That's just it Rick - there IS no other film.

It's clearly explained above in my previous post.  Of course, if you want to believe that there is a second, third, or however many "other" films out there, that's your right. But where is this film? Where is it? Think about it! What could it possibly show other than the 26 sec shooting sequence?  This, too, I've asked over and over again but no one - NO ONE - has ever given a logical or plausible answer here.

If you or anyone here cannot even begin to state with any plausibility WHAT this other film showed, then it's a no-brainer. It doesn't exist.

So William Reymond and Rich Dellarosa were lying?  They were describing in detail something they saw that doesn't exist?

And Dino Brugioni didn't create briefing boards showing events that are very different from the extant Z film?  He was lying about the hours he and his associates spent with a version of the film, working in detail for several hours to create a separate set of briefing boards overnight Saturday 2-23 / Sunday 2-24?

They describe in detail "what it could possibly show other than the 26 sec shooting sequence".  But they are all lying?