The Tippit Case in the New Millenium

[James DiEugenio]

Let me also state some other things Armstrong emailed me about:

1. If Burroughs is correct about when he saw Oswald, there is no way on earth Oswald could have been at the scene of the TIppit murder.  And I think Bill agrees with this since he is suggesting that someone picked up LHO and drove him there.

2.  Why did so many people know of TIppit in that area when it was not really his area?  I think Joe would say that his girlfriend lived around there.

3. If Oswald was not at the scene then did Tippit stop his car in front of that driveway because the car Holan saw was there?

4. Does Croy's car show up in any photos?

5.  Is it credible that neither Croy nor Westbrook knew the names of the witnesses who gave them either the wallet or the jacket? Even though Westbrook said he got the item from a fellow cop.

6. Was Westbrook the first cop at the Texas Theater?  This is what journalist Ewell said.

Edited May 7, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[David Von Pein]

From Vincent Bugliosi's book....

"One thing we can be reasonably certain about: the wallet was not Oswald’s. [Dale] Myers closely compared a close-up photo of Oswald’s arrest wallet with the wallet found at the murder scene and found definite physical differences, causing him to conclude that “the Oswald arrest wallet is not the same billfold seen in the WFAA newsfilm” (Myers, 'With Malice', pp.298–299).

Furthermore, a Dallas police officer had just been slain. It is inconceivable that members of the Dallas Police Department like Captains Westbrook and Doughty and Sergeant Hill would suppress and keep secret the fact that Tippit’s killer had left his calling card at the murder scene. That simply would not, could not, have happened.

If Oswald’s wallet had been found at the murder scene, it is inconceivable that nowhere in the testimony or the reports of Westbrook, Hill, Doughty, Poe, and so on, would they bother to mention this extremely important fact.

[...]

If I had to wager, I’d conclude it was Tippit’s wallet, and the reason [Ron] Reiland stated, on WFAA film, that it was Tippit’s wallet is that the police had informed him at the scene that it was. Quite apart from Barrett, it makes no sense to me that the Dallas police and detectives, several of whom were Tippit’s friends, would keep from the world that his killer’s wallet was found near his body." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Pages 454 and 456 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes)

[David Von Pein]

Also see this Dale Myers article:

http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2014/03/solving-tippit-murders-wallet-mystery.html

[Micah Mileto]

Would it be fair to say that both the wallet in evidence and the CBS footage wallet are a unusual fashion for the 60's in this area?

[Bill Simpich]

This is what I believe on this matter.  And I implied it in the article.

I do not think that the two wallets are the same.  And I think someone from the DPD, maybe Croy, brought the wallet to the Tippit scene.  To me that seems to fit the evidence the best. Because as both Simpich and Armstrong have written, no one saw a wallet on the street pavement.  And unlike the unreliable Bugliosi BS, it was not TIppit's wallet.  To me, those factors would seem to indicate that it was not on the ground.

Also, I do not believe that anyone carries three wallets.  

So Bill, I guess what you are saying is that there really is no proof that the Hidell card was in the wallet that Bentley took from Oswald.  

If that is the case, then it suggests that the  one at the Tippit scene did not totally disappear.

Is that what you think?

That is exactly what I think.  I think there were two wallets.  Ask Officer Robert Barrett, he will tell you that Westbrook identified the wallet at the Tippit murder scene as containing the ID of both Oswald and Hidell.  He is still alive.  Go to the youtube site to hear him explain it in his own words.

A reprint of the WFAA news story reveals that Barrett has described the notion that the Oswald ID was in his wallet found in his pocket at the Texas Theatre by Officer Paul Bentley as "hogwash".

"Bcmarshall" at Jeff Morley's website discussed this matter with Bob Barrett on a number of occasions, and discusses Barrett's observations regarding the wallet.

Let me also state some other things Armstrong emailed me about:

1. If Burroughs is correct about when he saw Oswald, there is no way on earth Oswald could have been at the scene of the TIppit murder.  And I think Bill agrees with this since he is suggesting that someone picked up LHO and drove him there.

I agree.  Burroughs is corroborated by a second witness, Jack Davis, who said that Oswald came over and sat next to him as the opening credits for the movie were beginning to roll at 1:20 pm.  Westbrook and his friends made a list of all the theater patrons, and then lost that list!  We are still looking for most of those patrons - an excellent project to be taken up.   Back issues of the Dallas papers might be very valuable for this purpose.

 

2.  Why did so many people know of TIppit in that area when it was not really his area?  I think Joe would say that his girlfriend lived around there.

Joe's book shows that Tippit was known in Oak Cliff, and at the Top Ten Record store in particular where Tippit ran in and made a frantic phone call just minutes before his death.

3. If Oswald was not at the scene then did Tippit stop his car in front of that driveway because the car Holan saw was there?

I don't know that story.

4. Does Croy's car show up in any photos?

None that I know of.

5.  Is it credible that neither Croy nor Westbrook knew the names of the witnesses who gave them either the wallet or the jacket? Even though Westbrook said he got the item from a fellow cop.

it's absolutely incredible.  Jerry Hill got his information from similar, anonymous witnesses.

6. Was Westbrook the first cop at the Texas Theater?  This is what journalist Ewell said.

All I know is that he got there quick.  He led his boys in from the door near the movie screen, while Hill led his posse from the balcony.  The man looking a lot like Oswald entered without buying a ticket at 1:35 and went straight up to the balcony.  Hill made up a story that Oswald tried to fire a revolver at an officer - the FBI labeled Hill as a xxxx before the Warren Commission.  Oswald was lucky to get out of their alive.

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

Post deleted

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Paul Brancato

[Thomas Graves]

7 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Tommy - I’m not a moderator, but if I was I’d tell you to cease hounding Jim. Your possible reasons for doing so don’t matter - it’s the principle. 

Paul,

I have been moderated twice now for violating the 24-hour "no bumping" rule.

IMHO, DiEugenio did the same thing a short time ago on this thread.

Okay?

--  TG

[Paul Brancato]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

Paul,

I have been moderated twice now for violating the 24-hour "no bumping" rule.

IMHO, DiEugenio did the same thing a short time ago on this thread.

Okay?

--  TG

You’re quick. I tried to delete my post. By the way it wasn’t this one that bugged me, it was the previous very sarcastic one. 

[Thomas Graves]

35 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

You’re quick. I tried to delete my post. By the way it wasn’t this one that bugged me, it was the previous very sarcastic one. 

 

Okay.
 

--  T.G.

PS  Why did you try to delete your post?

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Ron Bulman]

How can anyone really believe Oswald dropped his wallet at the Tippit murder scene?  Tippit asked him through the rolled up window for id?  So Oswald takes it out as Tippit is getting out of the car.  Then in his haste to get his gun out and shoot Tippitt he drops or throws down the wallet?  In the excitement of the moment he forgets about his wallet as he administers the coup de grace  and empties the shells out of his gun while walking away.  But nobody sees the wallet on the ground.  None of the police know who gave it to them.  It is forgotten  about, not reported, ignored.  Then "the" wallet is found on Oswald on the way to DPD HQ.  Both had a Hidell ID in them, if you believe Barrett and the DPD.  One wallet?  Oswald dropped it at the Tippit murder scene, Somebody picked it up and gave it to Westbrook who transported it to the Texas Theater and planted it on Oswald so Bentley could find it, then never mentioned it in his (Westbrook's)  report or otherwise.  But he's seen holding it on a news report?  Problems here.  It's been pointed out and discussed elsewhere before that while similar the wallet in the National Archives and the one in the TV footage have slight differences when examined closely.  Two wallet's, both with Hidell Id's in them unless... the contents of them were consolidated, and some of them eliminated.  Like Ferrie's library card.  Sorry, I'm no PD Scott, just confused.  

[Ron Bulman]

37 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

You’re quick. I tried to delete my post. By the way it wasn’t this one that bugged me, it was the previous very sarcastic one. 

Paul, I thought that one was funny.  He called Mayor Earle Cabell Allen Dulles brother.

[Ron Bulman]

3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

David,

 

Don't you realize it doesn't really matter because James "Sacrosanct" DiEugenio and his ilk clearly and obviously proved a long, long, long, long time ago that the evil, evil, evil, evil, evil, evil CIA, through the auspices of that evil, evil Earl Cabell (brother of that evil, evil, evil, evil, evil Alan Dulles) and, of couse, the evil, evil Mafia, controlled the evil, evil, evil, evil Dallas Police Department and the evil evil , etc, etc, etc,  ... and killed our beloved president John Fitzgerald Kennedy?

(sarcasm)

 

--  T.G.

 

Allen Cabell, Earl Dulles.

[Thomas Graves]

20 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Allen Cabell, Earl Dulles.

 

Thank you so much, Ron.

But unfortunately, I'd already edited it before I read this fine post of yours.

 

My bad. 

 

I must have been thinking of Harvey and Lee and ... gasp ... the two Marguerites.


--  T.G.

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Ron Bulman]

29 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

How can anyone really believe Oswald dropped his wallet at the Tippit murder scene?  Tippit asked him through the rolled up window for id?  So Oswald takes it out as Tippit is getting out of the car.  Then in his haste to get his gun out and shoot Tippitt he drops or throws down the wallet?  In the excitement of the moment he forgets about his wallet as he administers the coup de grace  and empties the shells out of his gun while walking away.  But nobody sees the wallet on the ground.  None of the police know who gave it to them.  It is forgotten  about, not reported, ignored.  Then "the" wallet is found on Oswald on the way to DPD HQ.  Both had a Hidell ID in them, if you believe Barrett and the DPD.  One wallet?  Oswald dropped it at the Tippit murder scene, Somebody picked it up and gave it to Westbrook who transported it to the Texas Theater and planted it on Oswald so Bentley could find it, then never mentioned it in his (Westbrook's)  report or otherwise.  But he's seen holding it on a news report?  Problems here.  It's been pointed out and discussed elsewhere before that while similar the wallet in the National Archives and the one in the TV footage have slight differences when examined closely.  Two wallet's, both with Hidell Id's in them unless... the contents of them were consolidated, and some of them eliminated.  Like Ferrie's library card.  Sorry, I'm no PD Scott, just confused.  

Easily confused sometimes, according to my wife.

[James DiEugenio]

Ron:

This is a key point from Bill's earlier post:

Paul Bentley is the officer that supposedly found Oswald's wallet in his pocket and found the Hidell card in the wallet as Jerry Hill drove a full team of five arresting officers to the station.   Bentley said to author Larry Sneed that the names went over the radio...no record of that.   Officer Walker also claimed he removed wallet from Oswald's pants pocket in interrogation room.   No Dallas reports by Bentley or any of the five arresting officers mention this Hidell card.  Bentley's story is not credible, on any level.  Can you believe that Bentley was Dallas'  chief polygraph examiner?

This is why when I asked Bill this question I said, was the Hidell ID really there.  What I meant by that is was it there in real time?

From what Bill has adduced here, it does not look like it was.

If that is the case, then it likely came from the Croy/Westbrook wallet.

 

PS: let me add, I cannot imagine a better discussion of the Tippit case than having McBride, Simpich, and Armstrong via email. We should all feel fortunate. 

 

•  

Edited May 8, 2018 by James DiEugenio