Dan Rather and Gerald Posner analyze the shots that killed JFK

[Douglas Caddy]

Dan Rather and Gerald Posner analyze the shots that killed JFK

 

 

 

[This is being posted for informational purposes only and does not necessarily reflect the views of the poster.]

[Joseph McBride]

What a duo. Accessories after the fact and in Rather's case, before as well.

[Joe Bauer]

So according to Posner, Oswald had the most unhurried time to set up and line up his first shot ( which Posner says was deflected by the tree ) then, there is a significant pause between the 1st and 2nd shots which could only mean the shooter was taking that extra time to realign his sight to his moving farther away target, and then many ear witness to the shooting sounds said that the time space between the 2nd and 3rd shots was very brief ( almost on top of each other ) in relation to the time space between the 1st and 2nd shots.

Logic shouts that to take that 3rd and last shot in an obviously much more hurried time frame than the first two, and combined with the more demanding accuracy challenges of the target moving and being farther away ( smaller target ) and also moving slightly downward and the target ( JFK's head)  and upper body moving forward and sideways at the same time,...

that "this shot", this last and most hurried shot of all 3 would be the most difficult one for accuracy versus the first two. 

I wonder which one or two out of the three shots that every expert marksman could only duplicate ( only one got all 3?) hit their target  The first one? The second? The third?

How many of those 11 expert marksmen's one or two out of three hits were the "last shot" at a target that was the farthest away and smaller?

Try hitting a cantaloupe at 265 feet ( even with a scope) that is moving not just away and downward but at the same time also separately moving sideways and downward on it's own?

That's four separate target movement dynamics.

That moving away target the marksmen shot at ( JFK's upper body and

head ) wasn't moving separately sideways and up and down at the same time.

And think of the pressure Oswald must have been feeling in firing his shots. Especially not getting a direct hit the first attempt nor a true kill shot the second?

And with each booming shot opening up more risks that he would be seen doing this?

The third shot on JFK would have been the hardest one for all the above reasons.  It couldn't be duplicated by 11 marksmen and who were not under the pressure Oswald was feeling?

Edited January 13, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Robert Card]

The weapons engineer did in fact make the shots, but on his 3rd try.

[Michael Cross]

But was his gun sighted for a downhill angle?  I'm guessing it was, that those "recreating" the shots, being experts, knew that a gun with sights adjusted for flat ground will miss high when fired at a downhill angle, and accordingly,  set their sights for the angle.  All "evidence" is that LHO practiced on flat land.  If so, his gun would miss high. 

[David Josephs]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 12:09 PM, Douglas Caddy said:

Dan Rather and Gerald Posner analyze the shots that killed JFK

Great... the blind leading the deaf and dumb...

you choose who is who... 

[David Josephs]

10 hours ago, Robert Card said:

The weapons engineer did in fact make the shots, but on his 3rd try.

I was under the impression no one was able to reproduce the shooting sequence...  can you post that evidence Robert?

Pulling the trigger 3 times is no big feat... getting Oswald into that window... now that may take a few more than 3 tries..

[David Josephs]

9 minutes ago, Michael Cross said:

But was his gun sighted for a downhill angle?  I'm guessing it was, that those "recreating" the shots, being experts, knew that a gun with sights adjusted for flat ground will miss high when fired at a downhill angle, and accordingly,  set their sights for the angle.  All "evidence" is that LHO practiced on flat land.  If so, his gun would miss high. 

That's one thing none of these rebuttal artists wants to touch...  let alone that according to WCR the sight was reassembled with the rest of the rifle... with a dime...   and never test fired... there is literally no way anyone could know where shots would go if looking thru that sight....  then again, our man Brennen claims there was no scope...  ???

an 11 degree RISE from back to front...  if anyone wonders why FORD did what he did

 

At z225 - any LNer want to take a crack at how, when shooting from 70 feet in the air DOWN to a target...
the bullet rises...

It is said Knudsen took the only REAL AUTOPSY PHOTOS and

     Mr. Purdy. What other things besides the body did you see, other than the rulers? 

     Mr. Knudsen. What appeared to be stainless steel probes. 

     Mr. Purdy. About how long were they? 

     Mr. Knudsen. The probes? 

     Mr. Purdy. Yes. 

     Mr. Knudsen. I would estimate about two foot. 

     Mr. Purdy. Was there one probe that you saw through the body, or were there more than one? 

     Mr. Knudsen. More than one.

 

===

 

     Mr. Purdy. The metal probe extended from the front of the neck to the back of the neck? 

     Mr. Knudsen. Right. One was through the chest cavity. 

     Mr. Purdy. Did it go all the way through? 

     Mr. Knudsen. Yes. It seems to me that the entry point was a little bit lower in the back than -- well, the point in the back was a little bit lower than the point in the front. Put it that way. So the probe was going diagonally from top to bottom, front to back.

 

 

     Mr. Knudsen. Right about where the neck-tie is. That would be somewhere in that vicinity. 

     Mr. Purdy. Approximately how much lower than that would you say the other probe, which went through the chest cavity?

     Mr. Knudsen. I would put it six, seven inches.

 

     Mr. Purdy. The probe that you said you could see coming out of the neck, the front of the neck, where was it out of the back of the neck? How high up would you say that one was. 

     Mr. Knudsen. About the base of the neck.

 

Also a good idea to read SAUNDRA KAY SPENCER's deposition from May 5, 1997 for yet another description of "the" photos.

 

 

[Joe Bauer]

I repeat;

after JFK is hit the first time, he straightens up with his arms lifting, then bends his head down slightly ( looking as if he is struggling to breath through the blood?) and he then turns his head - rotating leftward - to look at Jackie with anguish and Jackie immediately grabs JFK's arm and pulls him closer to her which causes JFK's head and upper body to lean leftward and down slightly and then one micro second later JFK's head explodes from another shot.

My point is the fact that JFK's head and upper body is moving significantly upward, downward, rotating leftward, then pulled leftward even more by Jackie's pulling ( traversing two feet leftward from his first hit position? ) then slumping downward again ... all in the short time space between the supposed 2nd and 3rd shot? 

All while Oswald is trying to scope realign his last and most hurried shot at a cantaloupe sized target 265 feet away that is moving that much on it's own while also moving farther away and on a downward incline slope in the limo?

And with all that target movement ( 4 movement dynamics ) at the farthest distance of his shooting sequence challenge he then gets a bull's-eye hit?

Wonder how many experienced hunter shooters could hit a small deer's head bulls-eye while the deer was in the back of an open pickup 265 feet away with the truck motoring away and downward and the deer is moving his neck and head all at the same time ?

And using a rifle like the Carcano with a bad scope sight and not under the murderous criminal action urgency stress Oswald should have been feeling?

Now THAT would be a bulls-eye shot worth bragging about.

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Joe Bauer

[Rick McTague]

2 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

I repeat;

after JFK is hit the first time, he straightens up with his arms lifting, then bends his head down slightly ( looking as if he is struggling to breath through the blood?) and he then turns his head - rotating leftward - to look at Jackie with anguish and Jackie immediately grabs JFK's arm and pulls him closer to her which causes JFK's head and upper body to lean leftward and down slightly and then one micro second later JFK's head explodes from another shot.

My point is the fact that JFK's head and upper body is moving significantly upward, downward, rotating leftward, then pulled leftward even more by Jackie's pulling ( traversing two feet leftward from his first hit position? ) then slumping downward again ... all in the short time space between the supposed 2nd and 3rd shot?" 

And Oswald is trying to scope align his last and most hurried shot at a cantaloupe sized target that is moving that much while also moving farther away and on a downward incline slope?

And with all that target movement ( 4 movement dynamics ) at the farthest distance of his shooting sequence challenge he then gets a bull's-eye hit?

Wonder how many experienced hunter shooters could hit a small deer's head bull's-eye while the deer was in the back of an open pickup 265 feet away and the truck was also motoring away and downward and the deer was moving his neck and head all at the same time ?

And using a rifle like the Carcano with a bad scope sight and not under the murderous criminal action urgency stress Oswald should have been feeling?

Now THAT would be a bull's-eye shot worth bragging about.

 

Joe,

As always, I appreciate your logic and reason in your posts and replies here as we look at the evidence and draw conclusions.  In addition to the complexity of the shots which you accurately describe here, I might also add the uncanny ability of LHO to partially load the 6-shot capacity MC clip with only 4 rounds of mixed type in the exact right order:  

#1: Full metal jacket round that missed and caused the wound to James Tague

#2:The so-called magic bullet being of the full metal jacket variety that penetrates and keeps on going (see CE399)

#3: The frangible / soft-nosed round that caused the head wound with the cloud of tiny lead fragments seen in x-rays

#4: FMJ round left in the rifle

There just isn't a logical explanation for how anyone could make those shots with those mixed ammunition types from that window in those conditions - with the added complexities that you point out - with that rifle.  No one I know who uses firearms loads a magazine / clip with mixed purpose ammunition.  I'm not even sure that frangible / soft-nosed ammunition was available then for the MC. 

There is also the related duality of ammunition types / manufacturers in the Tippet murder.

Thanks

[Joe Bauer]

Rick, from the Rather/Posner graphics they show the first shot fired and missing but at a sharper downward angle because JFK's limo was still fairly close to the School Book Depository building.

James Tague was at a distance far enough away that the first shot bullet wasn't aiming anywhere near him?

Are we to believe that the first shot careemed off of the ground and took off again towards the farther away Tague?

Edited December 28, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

And what about the inner "steel" windshield frame indentation that no one, even Kellerman, could explain it's origin before the shooting in Dealey Plaza?

And what about Kellerman's WC testimony about a "flurry" of shots raining into the limo?

Two shots doesn't come close to a "flurry."

Edited December 28, 2018 by Joe Bauer

[Rick McTague]

Just now, Joe Bauer said:

And what about the inner "steel" windshield frame indentation that no one, even Kellerman, could explain it's origin before the shooting in Dealey Plaza?

And what about Kellerman's WC testimony about a "Flurry" of shots raining into the limo?

Two shots doesn't come close to a "flurry."

And Kellerman said that he heard JFK say "My God I'm hit!" - which could not have been the throat shot, had to have been the shallow shot to his back.  He could not have said this if these were caused by the magic bullet.  The WC and it's apologists expect us to disregard every piece of evidence that runs counter to it's conclusions.  Much like the Parkland nurses and doctors, I am more inclined to believe "day of" testimony by those who were there.

Any thoughts on the multiple ammo types and how they fit in?

Thanks

[Robert Card]

4 hours ago, David Josephs said:

I was under the impression no one was able to reproduce the shooting sequence...  can you post that evidence Robert?

Pulling the trigger 3 times is no big feat... getting Oswald into that window... now that may take a few more than 3 tries..

you're correct, ....as far as i know, no one matched LHO's feat.  I'm only correcting the video in the OP when at 1:40 about, Dan Rather says a 'weapons engineer was able to do the 3 shots in the allotted time period'.  my point is that LHO supposedly did it on his first try, but the weapons engineer did it on his 3rd try, so the weapons engineer did not duplicate the shots, as he had some practice time.

[Robert Card]

Mr. SPECTER. Mr. Kellerman, you said earlier that there were at least two additional shots. Is there any area in your mind or possibility, as you recollect that situation, that there could have been more than two shots, or are you able to say with any certainty?

Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three, there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen. 

Kellerman goes on to say that he only heard 3 shots.   My father received a military funeral, and a 21 gun salute.   7 men firing 3 shots.   21 shots fired, but i only heard 3.  Could muzzle silencers have been used?

Kellermans widow and daughter both said that Kellerman never accepted the WC report for the rest of his life.   

Wow, a CTer inside the limo.