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Douglas Caddy

The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover

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Does one originate such an official position, take it in many extreme directions, and hold so much damaging knowledge - even as Allen Dulles did - and then relinquish it all to an Executive threat?  I suspect Hoover was blackmailed into a few major things, but would have joined the JFKA works if he were as straight and unsullied as Victor Mature.

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"Dr John Money, professor of medical psychology at Johns Hopkins University, thought Hoover "needed constantly to destroy other people in order to maintain himself. He managed to live with his conflict by making others pay the price." Dr Harold Lief, professor emeritus of psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania, concluded that Hoover suffered from "a personality disorder, a narcissistic disorder with mixed obsessive features… paranoid elements, undue suspiciousness and some sadism. A combination of narcissism and paranoia produces what is known as an authoritarian personality. Hoover would have made a perfect high-level Nazi."

Sounds exactly like someone else we all know.

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If the Mafia were involved in JFK's assassination and realized it had left some footprints behind, it could count on blackmailed Hoover to make certain these were erased from the evidence.

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5 hours ago, Douglas Caddy said:

If the Mafia were involved in JFK's assassination and realized it had left some footprints behind, it could count on blackmailed Hoover to make certain these were erased from the evidence.

I believe the Mafia was involved in JFK's assassination.  They had dirt on Hoover, enough to blackmail him.  Just like LBJ had dirt on JFK and forced his way onto the ticket as the VP nominee.

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1 hour ago, Rich Pope said:

I believe the Mafia was involved in JFK's assassination.  They had dirt on Hoover, enough to blackmail him.  Just like LBJ had dirt on JFK and forced his way onto the ticket as the VP nominee.

I don’t believe LBJ forced his way to become VP. He was offered the job with JFK and Bobby thinking there’s no way he’d give up the power he had in the Senate but they were wrong. Some have written that he had sexual blackmail on Kennedy and he forced his way on to the ticket. To me that makes no sense at all. Johnson took the chance realizing this may be his last chance to be president and that Kennedy wouldn’t last 4 years.

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14 minutes ago, John Kozlowski said:

I don’t believe LBJ forced his way to become VP. He was offered the job with JFK and Bobby thinking there’s no way he’d give up the power he had in the Senate but they were wrong. Some have written that he had sexual blackmail on Kennedy and he forced his way on to the ticket. To me that makes no sense at all. Johnson took the chance realizing this may be his last chance to be president and that Kennedy wouldn’t last 4 years.

Well, then why make the offer to LBJ at all?  To curry favor in the Senate?  By other accounts, JFK was prepared to name Stuart Symington, but feared he might not get Southern votes without LBJ on the ticket.

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26 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

Well, then why make the offer to LBJ at all?  To curry favor in the Senate?  By other accounts, JFK was prepared to name Stuart Symington, but feared he might not get Southern votes without LBJ on the ticket.

It’s been written that Johnson said in private that he’d never accept the position and RFK had told civil rights and union leaders LBJ would never be on the ticket. I think he was offered the job to bring the party together and when he did accept it came as a shock to the Kennedy’s.

  Maybe Johnson thought JFK would take the credit for the good he did in senate and let him take the blame for the bad and it would hurt him down the road. But for whatever reason I think LBJ realized this was his best shot at being President. I can’t remember the books but I’ve read that RFK tried talking him out after he accepted it and instead offered to make him the chair of the Democratic Party which Johnson turned down. 

 I always thought that’s how it went down. I know Evelyn Lincoln had said she thought LBJ blackmailed JFK and Philip Nelson did the same in his LBJ mastermind book but I don’t buy into that theory myself.

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I know Evelyn Lincoln had said she thought LBJ blackmailed JFK and Philip Nelson did the same in his LBJ mastermind book but I don’t buy into that theory myself.

I don't know the truth there, either.  But if LBJ had dirt on JFK, he may have gotten it from Hoover.

Another angle: The Kennedys may have had financial or sexual dirt oh LBJ, even as early as nomination season.  Why didn't they use it?

I don't remember all the details, but I remember the Johnson pick was settled quickly, maybe in 48 hours, and RFK was angry at being left out of the loop.

Edited by David Andrews

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Wasn't it Johnson who said " One in four Presidents never finish their first term so a VP has a twenty five percent chance of becoming President anyway..." or something to that effect.

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I've wondered about LBJ using Hoover dirt to get the on the JFK ticket in 1960 for years.  Doesn't make sense he would give up his power in the Senate for second fiddle, where he was obviously frustrated for a thousand days.  Does it?  Although he told a (I believe female) journalist once he liked his odd's.  One in every 3-4 died in office previously.  Interesting he would know the odd's in the first place.    

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5 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

I've wondered about LBJ using Hoover dirt to get the on the JFK ticket in 1960 for years.  Doesn't make sense he would give up his power in the Senate for second fiddle, where he was obviously frustrated for a thousand days.  Does it?  Although he told a (I believe female) journalist once he liked his odd's.  One in every 3-4 died in office previously.  Interesting he would know the odd's in the first place.    

Oop's.  Sorry Bob.  You posted while I was writing.  Nice to concur on one aspect with someone. 

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50 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Oop's.  Sorry Bob.  You posted while I was writing.  Nice to concur on one aspect with someone. 

Ha! I looked once and sure enough he was right haha. I don't know that just about anyone could have gotten the goods on JFK by asking around Hyannis. There are still people there that grumble. I think in those days jornalists kept their mouths shut about "open secrets" but a person like Hoover could pierce the silence with well placed functionaries. The Valerie Plame thing would be a more current example.

Hoover's vulnerability with the mafia is an example of why these high level security classifications shouldn't be given out to sketchy types...   ahem...

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8 hours ago, Bob Ness said:

Wasn't it Johnson who said " One in four Presidents never finish their first term so a VP has a twenty five percent chance of becoming President anyway..." or something to that effect.

According to sources LBJ didn't even want to run for President in 1964. He wanted to hold the office together until the 1964 election was decided and then he would leave the spoils for the winner. He came under tremendous pressure  to run in 1964 and of course he resigned in 1968. 

LBJ also didn't believe in the single bullet theory, didn't think going to war in Vietnam was a good idea, and didn't believe the Gulf of Tonkin story or the intelligence reports. Later after leaving office he confided during an interview that he believed we were "running a damn Murder Inc. in the Caribbean " . It wasn't long after that interview that LBJ departed this world. 

For a guy that's often fingered as a JFK mastermind killer, he sure went about covering it up in a strange way. He wasn't even a Warren Commission supporter nor was he a single bullet theory supporter.

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