Pamela Brown Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 This thread needs to be closed, nothing productive has come from it, only unanswerd questions which ALWAYS happens in a Judyth thread. What are you talking about? Judyth's detractors seem comfortable making vague accusations. Yours is a good example. Do you just want to complain or do you have something specific to say? If so, why not be specific? Pamela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I am not any less objective than you, Pamela. I am open to ideas. Well that's good to know. After reading some parts of what Reitzes wrote, Judyth's case was closed. You seem very trusting of Reitzes. What if he is withholding information that would substantiate some of Judyth's statements? Surely you realize that he has an agenda and that his tracts are simply propaganda to that end? Judyth is most probably under medication, at least I hope so. If she does not get the medical attention she requires, I bet she will stay the rest of her life in a mental institution or worse. Untrue Denis. That is just irresponsible. Have you taken a look at what Madeleine Brown went through? Do you have the 'lost' episodes of TMWKK where Madeleine is interviewed? Are you able to see the comparison between her and Judyth? Pamela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I was specific, this thread is a joke and has nothing to do with researching the JFK assassination, she NEVER answerd question that other folks here brought forward to her...... When the going got tough, she split, its the same old story:tomatoes This is why hardly ANYONE believes her except you Pam and Wim actually believe her... Do us all a favor John, shut this down as it isnt going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Judyth withholds info too............ Maybe if all put the cards out on the table it would all be over with. KNOW WHAT YOUR HOLDING AND THE DEAL IS DONE. GOT TO COUNT YOUR MONEY AS YOUR SITTING AT THE TABLE. OH EXCUSE ME I AM SINGING NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 1) Can Judyth proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that she had an affair with Lee ? 2) Can she proof beyond a reasonable doubt, that she did work on a get Castro project ? I appreciate your posting two specific questions (even though from my standpoint they are somewhat subjective). Perhaps you would be willing to provide some additional criteria to make your questions answerable. You are demanding 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt'. What does that mean to you? May I use the Madeleine Brown analogy again? Has she proved to your expectations that she had an affair with LBJ and knew about the assassination beforehand? In addition, if you would like to start a thread on these or any other questions you feel have not yet been answered, you have my support. Secondly, go ahead and run with your idea for a Witness Fund. I am in agreement with you that Judyth can use some help right now. I hope you are also aware of the fact that she would probably insist on paying it back in the future? Pamela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie Dea Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 Sorry! I could not knowingly give aid and comfort to a hoaxter or a criminal. Surely you will be willing to document your statement? What makes you think Judyth is either? Have you made a similar statement in regard to Madeleine Brown? If not, why not? Weren't you at NID one of the times she spoke? Pamela ------------------- I had cable problems yesterday and also thought about ignoring the above reply. However, sometimes ignoring something can be regarded in as, giving in. At this time, I do feel a need to vouch for myself. I do not believe that anyone who personally knows me would even consider that I am a mean minded and uncaring or unfeeling type person. Well after all, look at my past profession as an Alcohol/Drug Specialist. I care every much about people and actually even care what might happen to Judyth. I even believe she has been somewhat manupulated! In person, I am a very quiet, reserved type person and even a bit shy. I am able to write the things, I am unable to speak. You have no idea of the con stories I have heard or the claims and denials I have heard. As a result, I am unable to just blindly take anyones word on anything. If I do care enough about something and if the truth is so important to me, then I do try my best to check things out. If not so important, I may just ignore what was claimed. But, in this instance and relating to Judyths claims, I find it to be very important to the entire JFK Research community, if she is telling the truth or running a scam. Some of us have devoted up to five years to Judyths claims and some of us have even been diverted from other areas of research, as a result...although that part is our own fault and merely an observation. I do not want to disbelieve Judths clams and yet I fimd that I do. I have kept up with a lot of her writings from here and there and I do see the many discrepencies. I do not ever just blindly accept anyones word that she is telling the truth. Truth is more important to me then that. If you were my best research friend, I would not just take your word! We all have different ways of seeing the same things or hearing the same things. I have to review things for myself. I just don't care what you or anyone believes and only care what I believe. So everything I have looked at, on my own, tells me that Judyth is not being honest in many, mnay areas. Is she dishonest in everything..that I don't actually know. I also have writings showing how she has changed parts of her claims. I can't help it, these are red flags to me! If one chooses to not atually check things out for themself and blindly accepts the word of others and especially the main supporters, then I suppose that is their perogative...just as what I have done and my belief is my perogative. Now....as for my "Surely" being willing to document my claims..atually No, I am not willing to do that. I am just not stupid enough to believe I would be regarded any better by the Judyth supporters then David Reitzes is. Does he have an agenda? I have no idea about that. I do not even know the man and have never had any contact with him about anything. Frankly, i don't care if he has an agenda or not.. whatever his agenda might or might not be. It mostly sounds iike "smear" to me and again based only on hearsay. Truth is what is most important to me anyway. Yet, from what I have read, he is right on, as compares to my own findings. I did not start this, even in just the past year. Now as to Madeline Brown! Is this a bait and switch tactic...just wondering! However, I will answer the question. Yes, I have been to the NID, but no, I have never heard Madeline speak, nor did I ever meet her. I did see her once, just from a distance though. In addition, I have never heard her in the media nor at any forums. I do have her book but I also have many lined up to read, ahead of hers. I also have formed no opinion on her claims one way or the other. I have not investigated anything about her, so far. The only information I do have about her is strictly from hearsay...that is both pro and con. I have good friends who knew her well and do believe her. But I cannot only take their word alone to form my own opinion. I hope that answers your question! I will add that I did not hear of Madelinew trying to force feed anyone with her claims or that she retaliated if they didn't believe her or attacked those who didn't believe her or make rediculous accusations against them or even lie about them. It is more as though we could believe her or not, just as it should be. I now believe Judyths claims have been strung out long enough. She says her book will be out this year and I do hope it is. If that proof is actually there as she has claimed, then I will also acknowledge that fact. But at this point, I do not belive at least the majority of her claims. I also know that leaving a forum for various reasons is a pattern she has...although that is her right to do so. Sincerely Dixie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Morissette Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 (edited) I am not any less objective than you, Pamela. I am open to ideas. Well that's good to know. Glad to hear that. After reading some parts of what Reitzes wrote, Judyth's case was closed. You seem very trusting of Reitzes. What if he is withholding information that would substantiate some of Judyth's statements? Surely you realize that he has an agenda and that his tracts are simply propaganda to that end? You give me the impression that you know that Reitzes is withholding information. What is he withholding exactly? Judyth is most probably under medication, at least I hope so. If she does not get the medical attention she requires, I bet she will stay the rest of her life in a mental institution or worse. Untrue Denis. That is just irresponsible. Have you taken a look at what Madeleine Brown went through? Do you have the 'lost' episodes of TMWKK where Madeleine is interviewed? Are you able to see the comparison between her and Judyth? Pamela <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have seen very little of Madelaine Brown. What are you trying to tell me? Edited January 16, 2005 by Denis Morissette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 16, 2005 Share Posted January 16, 2005 I have seen very little of Madelaine Brown. What are you trying to tell me? Madeleine's situation is very similar to Judyth's. In her time her statements were even more outrageous. Madeleine is interviewed in TMWKK "The Guilty Men" and may be the real reason they were pulled. Her book "Texas in the Morning" discusses her affair and child with LBJ and his involvement in the assassination. Madeleine, in spite of how outrageous her claims were, was buffered by some in the 'research community', and spoke many times at NID. She was always treated with respect. She has no photos of herself and LBJ. It is my position that Judyth and Madeleine's situations are sufficiently similar that the same criteria and process should apply to both. Pamela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Morissette Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Pamela, I hope you understand people's tendency to be hard on those they consider to be liars and frauds. If you discovered that I stole money and personal things at your house, would you still be respectful to me? I don't think so. You CAN'T blame us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nancy Eldreth Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Denis, The problems of hearsay is just that. It is one of the problems with the net most hear from one and take it to be fact. This to me is a crime as well. So careful not to think with Judyth is such a cut and dry issue. She doens't do well with people and she does tend to run from certain questions. She also does things that makes me upset and really concerned about her. I dealt with her close for some time. She gets people wrong and does have problems. I guess what I am saying here is most of us under what she is under probably would. I just got an email and answered someone and they thought that the last email I sent to them was GOING TO BE MY LAST ONE TO HIM. When in fact I was answering him this is my last email from you, he was in question did I get his last one because he was having a problem getting through to me. ONE THING MAY SEEM ONE WAY BUT IT ISN"T IN FACT IT IS ANOTHER WAY. I do think still Judyth is telling the truth about a lot of things. I just wish she would DO HER OWN WEB SITE AND SOMEHOW GET THE ACT TOGETHER. WIM SHOULD HAVE HELPED HER TO DO THAT> NOW ANYONE WISH TO DO A FUND FOR THAT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA. SHE NEEDS HER OWN WEB SITE REALLY BAD AND POST UP HER OWN PROOF BECAUSE IT IS GOING TO BE HIGHLY NEEDED REALLY SOON. She won't take pity because once I offered her some money and she told me that is why the poor stay poor and no. BUT TO HELP HER GET HER ACT TOGETHER NOW THAT I THINK SHE WOULD APPRECIATE> WHAT I don't understand is Judyth has her own computer and I know this. I guess she didn't move it than when she moved. Well in this she needs help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 she NEVER answerd question that other folks here brought forward to her...... When the going got tough, she split, its the same old story What specific questions do you feel have not received answers? My position is not to 'believe' Judyth or 'not believe' Judyth. It is to remain objective. Can you understand the difference? Pamela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Pamela, I hope you understand people's tendency to be hard on those they consider to be liars and frauds. If you discovered that I stole money and personal things at your house, would you still be respectful to me? I don't think so. You CAN'T blame us. Denis, You've been around for a long time and have a lot of insights. I hope that you can see the value of my position, which is to remain objective. I have been in touch with Judyth since May. I have asked her questions and at times have not said what she wanted to hear. She has been forthcoming with me and very respectful. That is what I personally know about Judyth. Pamela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis Morissette Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 (edited) Pamela, I hope you understand people's tendency to be hard on those they consider to be liars and frauds. If you discovered that I stole money and personal things at your house, would you still be respectful to me? I don't think so. You CAN'T blame us. Denis, You've been around for a long time and have a lot of insights. I hope that you can see the value of my position, which is to remain objective. I have been in touch with Judyth since May. I have asked her questions and at times have not said what she wanted to hear. She has been forthcoming with me and very respectful. That is what I personally know about Judyth. Pamela <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course, dear friend. I understand your position. Have a good week, Pamela. Edited January 17, 2005 by Denis Morissette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I would like to remind members of rule iv. (iv) Members should not make personal attacks on other members. Nor should references be made to their abilities as researchers. Most importantly, the motivations of the poster should not be questioned. At all times members should concentrate on what is being said, rather than who is saying it. It is up to the reader to look at the biography submitted by the poster, to judge whether they are telling the truth or not. The word “xxxx” is banned from use on the forum. I wish people would spend more time on research than on making personal attacks on other members. One of the things that I find so disturbing is that threads like this get so many responses and page views whereas others that include important research are virtually ignored. Sometimes I get the impression that some people are more keen to take part in a soap opera than they are in research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 John, as Dawn once said, "Amen" to that! Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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