Leaving All Forums: Eye Problems, etc. Judyth

[Nic Martin]

Hm, I guess it's time for me to come clean.

Yes, I had a 30 year affair with Jack Ruby, and we murdered the Black Dahlia together, and sunk the Titanic, and oh no, it wasn't him that shot Oswald at all, it was a double made by the FBI to confuse people, and even though I met EVERY SINGLE PERSON in his life - absolutely none of them would remember me, because the Men In Black arrived and zapped their memory, and even though we lived in my grandparent's house, it wasn't built until 1979, and he didn't really die, he faked his death to get out of prison so we could be together in true love and harmony forever.

...Does anyone else see the problem in this story? Good, now why do you believe Judyth?

This has been a public service announcement.

[Richard J. Smith]

I completely disagree.  Reitzes repeats misrepresentations of issues and exacerbates his own ideas of issues.  What he is doing is simply muddying the water while pretending to present 'research'.  I don't find that helpful and it's not instructive either.  He and others who have continually refused to give Judyth an open forum are making well-intended researchers look bad.

Until there is a process in place that will provide Judyth and other witnesses with a safe haven where they are not pressured to do anything they are not comfortable with, and an open forum where ideas can be discussed objectively and without personal attack there is no point to her entering into any conversation.  Can you carry on a discussion with sharks?  Can you debate ideas with pyrhanna fish? 

Pamela

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Pamela,

What Reitzes does is repeat Judyth's own statements. He doesn't need to muddy anything.

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.p...mesg_id=1&page=

Judyth has had an open forum, and leaves of her own choice because she is subjected to hard questions. There aren't "personal attacks". She put herself in this position, and has to answer why she has made so many conflicting statements.

[Denis Morissette]

Judyth's case looks like Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig's -both tell stories that bring them a lot of problems like threats, loss of income, health problems, people in the JFK research community helping her financially, etc. Judyth, I really hope you won't end up like him.

[Dave Weaver]

Uwe/David,

You seem to want to have Judyth return so that you can make more demands of her.  I hope I am wrong; I would be delighted to be mistaken. 

Pamela

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Pamela,

The offer has nothing to do with, if Judyth uses the computer for internet or not.

I have enough computer parts in my working and also storage room, to build her one, I do and did give away parts and complete computer's to schools and charity's here where I live, that is nothing new for me.

So, that was ment as an act of helping someone out, without any demand or expectation before or afterwards.

If you or anyone believes me or not, I can not influence your opinion, and in fact do not care about that opinion, as it is based on wrong information anyway, and my offer is addressed to Judyth and not to you.

Apart from that, I agree fully with Nic, Richard and Dixie and in parts with Nancy, it is Judyth coming here, calling herself a witness and offeres to answer questions, yet, she always finds and excuse not to answer the most important ones, if asked. The end usualy is then eye and/or computerproblems, her concussion, being not believed, being attacked and so on and so on.

Happened here, happened elsewhere before.

And it is not me who paints the story in stronger colors than it realy is, Judyth since 1999 says she has the proof to show that she is telling the truth about the affair and the castro thing, yet Martin still goes no further than calling it "good circumstancial evidence", so all I was trying to point out, is, that I rather want to see Judyth's proof than to take Martin's "good circumstancial evidence" for it. Why? Well Judyth said to me she can proof it, and I trusted her words, until I saw her state things, I knew to be wrong.

I didn't start the fire Pamela, it was always burning ever since she realized that I am a rather smart rat, when it comes to truth, and I won't take a Y for an X.

Obviously someone did jump the gun about declaring "good circumstancial evidence" as proof (beyond reasonable doubt), or someone found out that proof (beyond reasonable doubt) was only "good circumstancial evidence" if at all. I think it is obvious, that neither Judyth nor Martin can find anything that prooves it beyond reasonable doubt.Her avoidance of showing her proof or at least part of it tells me I might be pretty close to the truth.

Please keep in mind, I am only talking about the loveaffair and the Castro project.

As far as her school cancer projects,being promoted for it, and having worked at Reily, she has shown material, that helps me not to doubt that it happened, yet, in itself, it does not proof the other things she told. So, expecting us all to believe the rest of the story, solely based on the other 2 things she did show supporting material of, is too much asked for, in my opinion.

Pamela, all my so called "demands" are based on personal exprience with her and a strong desire to learn the truth, and you only can read my lines, the in between reading you might have gotten wrong, please do take that into account.

[Richard J. Smith]

Judyth's case looks like Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig's -both tell stories that bring them a lot of problems like threats, loss of income, health problems, people in the JFK research community helping her financially, etc. Judyth, I really hope you won't end up like him.

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Denis,

Although Roger Craig was an actual participant in the circumstances surrounding the assassination, he also made claims that have never been proven, made many misstatements, and changed his story more times than I change my socks.

RJS

[Dawn Meredith]

I don't intend to slam Judyth, but it's interesting that every time someone presented a good question, she attempted to make them feel lousy and like she only spoke to them out of the goodness of her heart, simply for not believing her 100%.

Do I get that way when someone asks me if I'm from Texas, or if I'm 17? No, why? Because I'm not lying. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

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_______________________________

Nic,

I think Judyth got tired of being burned by people she thought she could trust. No matter how she answered a question she was screwed by those who were out to get her, and there are so many. WHY? If she is so unimportant, why bother or ask her...

Dawn

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Nic is absolutely right. She viewed the evidence and objectively came to a conclusion as many of us do. I think Judyth is tired of having her proofless story questioned. The info posted by those like Reitzes is legitimate, doesn't matter who he is. He serves a purpose by disspelling the more ludicrous scenarios, such as Ms Baker's. And Bob Vernon has nothing to do with it. Does it enhance Judyth's story to criticize him or Reitzes or anyone else for that matter? Is it really the opinion of an attorney that if so many people disbelieve someone's story, it makes them more believable? Her story is full of holes. She has made statements then retracted them, presented some "facts" then changed them due to bad eyesight, and most importantly has presented zero evidence. You, as an attorney, certainly should know what evidence is all about. As for people "out to get her", haven't you ever cross examined a witness? Ever caught them changing their stories, gone for the "kill" to expose them, then sat back in your chair with a feeling of accomplishment because you caught them manipulating the truth? Would you not use your abilities to the fullest to prove a witness is giving false testimony, or would you say "no questions for this witness your honor" because you deemed the witness "unimportant"? In your summation to the jury, would you point out the witness presented their own scenario that contained no proof? How did the jury vote after you exposed false or misleading testimony, or testimony that contained no actual evidence? Would you, as an attorney, let your personal feelings convince you to ignore the actual evidence? Not likely, so why do it here?

RJS

PS: I have no agenda other than the truth, no matter how many emails you get to the contrary.

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_____________________________----

Richard, I do not have absolute proof that every word that Judyth is telling is the truth. I have not personally investigated every detail of her story, but she has been attacked and so I defended her based upon what I have learned. Periopd.

Of course I have cross-examined witnesses. And I even had to impeach my own expert in a horrible child sex case two weeks ago as he lied on the stand. So I don't need to defend myself to you. You are beginning to sound like BV questioning my legal abilities when you have no idea of who I am. I think actually BV sent me a private email re my legal abilities. (So much trash from BV of late that it's hard to keep it straight if it's a post or email...for the record BV I will delete all further email and in fact block it so that your words will not clutter up my computer.) Nor will I waste another second defending Carl Oglesby.

Jim Harwood and BV need their own forum, I have heard they are enemies but they sure act alike to me.

And I just do not even read Nancy's long posts any longer. All this Judyth trashing is detracting from the goal of the forum.

Again I agree with whomever said we should all help Judyth financially. (Pam? In fact I have yet to read one post by Pam that I disagree with, it is because of people like her that I come back to these forums).

Dawn

My so called "personal feelings" are based on the incredible attacks I have seen made against Judyth on this forum, and I do personally believe she has the right to refuse to answer qustions from such people. They know who they are, so I shall not name names.

[Dawn Meredith]

Judyth's case looks like Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig's -both tell stories that bring them a lot of problems like threats, loss of income, health problems, people in the JFK research community helping her financially, etc. Judyth, I really hope you won't end up like him.

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__________________________

Me too Dennis, thanks for the great post.

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

Judyth's case looks like Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig's -both tell stories that bring them a lot of problems like threats, loss of income, health problems, people in the JFK research community helping her financially, etc. Judyth, I really hope you won't end up like him.

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__________________________

Me too Dennis, thanks for the great post.

Dawn

[Nancy Eldreth]

SHORT FOR DAWN

HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW>

BOB VERNON AND JIM HARWOOD DON"T KNOW EACH OTHER

AND WHAT THEY DO KNOW OF EACH OTHER< I DON"T THINK THEY GET ALONG>

I THANK GOD SOME OF THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE HAVE READ THE LONG

POST THAT I JUST DID> IT MAY ALREADY BE DOING SOME GOOD.

ALSO DAWN I AM NOT TRASHING JUDYTH>

NOW FIGURE THAT ONE OUT?> YOU SHOULD YOU ARE AN ATTORNEY?

I AM TRING TO GET HER TO BE OPEN ABOUT SOMETHING RATHER IMPORTANT

TO THE JFK RESEARCH WORLD ON SOME VERY ILLEGAL ACTIVIES>

CAN"T YOU FIGURE THINGS OUT???? SHOULD BE ABLE TOO< REALLY>>>>

[Dawn Meredith]

SHORT FOR DAWN

HOW LITTLE YOU KNOW>

BOB VERNON AND JIM HARWOOD DON"T KNOW EACH OTHER

AND WHAT THEY DO KNOW OF EACH OTHER< I DON"T THINK THEY GET ALONG>

I THANK GOD SOME OF THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE HAVE READ THE LONG

POST THAT I JUST DID>  IT MAY ALREADY BE DOING SOME GOOD.

ALSO DAWN I AM NOT TRASHING JUDYTH>

NOW FIGURE THAT ONE OUT?>  YOU SHOULD YOU ARE AN ATTORNEY?

I AM TRING TO GET HER TO BE OPEN ABOUT SOMETHING RATHER IMPORTANT

TO THE JFK RESEARCH WORLD ON SOME VERY ILLEGAL ACTIVIES>

CAN"T YOU FIGURE THINGS OUT????  SHOULD BE ABLE TOO< REALLY>>>>

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_________________________

Nancy

I know that Vernon and Harwood may not "know" each other, but I have heard they are online enemies. In fact Vernon sent me email to that effect, but I don't want to discuss BV on line and am now blocking his emails, as I DO NOT wish to engage in a dialogue with him.

And yes, I have figured out many things . Some of the very same things you have figured out. You and I had long emails and talks about this. Especially where Judyth is connected.

I am not going to post what I am talking about because I know that you will "get it", I know how smart you are actually.

Can't you just take Judyth at ther word that she is TIRED of all this and needs a total break? You needed a break a few days ago and told me not to call you so I did not. We all have crazy and hectic lives, yet we care deeply about the truth in this case. I believe you do, and most of the others on the forum. True there are some paid disinformationists and lone nutters to be sure, but that has been the case since day one of jfk assassination. Starting with Good old "uncle" Walter and Dan I'd Rather not, who built a whole career lying for the WC. NOw he's thru, but because he told the truth this time, just the documents were forged. How very clever of the conspirators, they are done with old Dan now, he's served them well, W's docs became his "Watergate", if you will.

So please let Judyth tell her story when she is ready and let this drop ok?

Go in peace.

Dawn

SHe needs not put herself in further danger just because you think she must do sso NOW. Let her do it at her own pace.

[Nancy Eldreth]

I WISH THAT WERE VERY TRUE AND THE CASE>

NO DAWN IT ISN"T>

WHY I MYSELF AM NOT TAKING THE BREAK THAT I VERY MUCH NEED>

I WISH I HAD THE LUXURARY OF TIME AND PEACE

BUT I DON"T IN WHAT I AM DOING AND WHAT I DO KNOW>

I AM UNDER A LOT OF PRESSURE AND STRESS>

I HAVE TO DO THIS NOW AND JUDYTH HAS TO ALSO FOR THAT VERY REASON OF WHAT YOU ARE STATING FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I WISH JUDYTH WOULD BE OPEN ON WHAT SHE KNOWS AND OR THIS HAS TO BE TAKEN HIGHER AND IF IT IS CAN CAUSE MORE PROBLEMS TO EVERYONE THAT KNOWS SOMETHING HIDDEN> IN PLAN WORDS MANY ARE IN DANGER.

NO JUDYTH DOESN"T HAVE THE TIME, MONEY, LUXURARY AND PEACE EITHER. IF SHE WOULD WISH THAT THAN HELP THIS WHOLE THING TO GET OVER WITH AND THEN WE CAN ALL BE AT EASE>

[Pamela Brown]

Again I agree with whomever said we should all help Judyth financially. (Pam? In fact I have yet to read one post by Pam that I disagree with, it is because of people like her that I come back to these forums).

Thank you Dawn. It is time for some sanity on the net. There is so much left to accomplish, and answers can best come from objectively presented information in an open forum.

How can we move forward to help Judyth financially? A fund of some sort needs to be set up. Do you or anyone have info as to how that can best be done without unnecessary costs? Also, I am thinking of something like a "Witness Fund" that can be used now to help Judyth, but, hopefully, after her book comes out and she is ok, we could then designate to help others?

Looking for input,

Pamela

[Dixie Dea]

Sorry! I could not knowingly give aid and comfort to a hoaxter or a criminal.

Dixie

[Pamela Brown]

...Does anyone else see the problem in this story? Good, now why do you believe Judyth?

Cute. But beside the point. I'm not talking about 'believing' or not. I'm talking about an open forum where information can be objectively compared and evaluated. A level playing field without personal invective. Out of that can come what anyone decides to find credible or not. Also, rather than discussing 'people'. it would be valuable to discuss issues. More like a debate than a pihrahhna tank.

Pamela

[Pamela Brown]

What Reitzes does is repeat Judyth's own statements. He doesn't need to muddy anything.

One would have to be really naive to believe that. Reitzes has an agenda and he misrepresents statements Judyth may have made.

In addition, Reitzes isn't interested in moving forward with anything Judyth has presented. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he is concealing information he already has that would substantiate some of her statements. Reitzes wants to appear reasonable and he wants Judyth's statements to appear less-than-credible. That's called an agenda. But now that he's been unmasked, anyone who wants to can perceive what is actually going on. Maybe even you?

Pamela