David Josephs

Craig.... No hard feeling at all... I spent a very long time working on nothing but Mexico City and the Evidence available. I realize that there was quite a lot of chatter about many, many items in the case.... that this or that person said something, especially in this case, requires the extra step of Authentication.... It's a simple thing really but because this was not a real trial, evidence did not need to pass that test.... So I ask a basic question... if, on Oct 1st the CIA took a photo of Oswald in Mexico at these consulates.... and the CIA wants to connect him with KOSTIKOV, how would his photo be detrimental to the effort? IOW why would Goodpasture pick a photo from Oct 4th of a man claimed to be the only American looking person that day... and associate that with a call on Oct 1st that never took place... or meetings/calls on the 28th when both locations are closed and the switchboard is unmanned? I think you're looking for something that was never there... like Ozzie in the window with the rifle... myth. Are you saying that you don't believe Odio and her sister? ----------------------- George was everybody's good friend... He was watching Oswald for the CIA... this we know. I don't think he knew what he got into when called upon to deal with Oswald... If you don't mind... can you source out the OSS/French Intel connections? How do you come to that knowledge? Do you discount what Hoover is saying about the false story? Did you read thru any of the MX work at Kennedysandking? At the end of the day Craig, it's what you post and how it's supported that matters... "saying it" as you said, doesn't make it so.... I don't know you at all while I've been posting/writing on the subject for 15 years - mistakes, errors , revelations and all.... I'm wrong often, no doubt, because I go ahead and put my work out there... Again, I enjoy a discussion/debate with someone who knows their stuff... that's all I'm really asking... if you're saying something is a FACT... Show us why.

Then how can you say they were of Oswald when they were never seen and all we have is the word of people involved....? Craig - please try and think for a minute.... You're basically saying that you have this box... inside this box is a photo of Oswald in Mexico but the box has no openings and two people who swear they saw the photo claim it was Oswald. Every other item trying to support Oswald in Mexico is provably a fraud.... There are over 20 FBI assets, the CIA, DFS and Cuban intelligence along with I&NS and still they cannot find evidence of Oswald in Mexico OTHER THAN what was supplied by the CIA... You're so eager to take the word of the KGB... why not the CIA? The reality is you simply are not that familiar with the evidence or the documents or you wouldn't misquote them so badly... So as I asked... What else you got? or HOOVER or the FBI

Of course he hasn't... Nice, even misquote the quote... Our Attorney General gave SWORN TESTIMONY in front of Congress and lied his butt off... until Authenticated and/or Corroborated "evidence" is worthless. With regards to the "photo of Oswald" from Azcue... you prove once again you're not to be trusted with references or opinions... and cannot even do the most simple of searches to find out how wrong you are... and what actual research looks like.... 8 pages in there is another photo of your Oswald talking with CASTRO Finally - your "soviet officials" were KGB agents Craig. and you didn't offer it David Lifton did... as for your explanation of anything.... at this point you haven't shown you even know the basics of what happened let alone the details... As for impressing you... the bull couldn't care less what the gnats are doing.... What else you got?

By "generals" I assume you include Rear Admirals? I did this diagram while thinking about Bethesda one afternoon... You wanna bet that everyone on this list spent time in the armed forces? I see this as a wholly Military operation Mike.... no one else has the reach and the influence to control every aspect as well as being the one unifying thread among those involved... this MAY have been as simple as the JCS concluded JFK was being treasonous, was going to de-claw the CIA - the Military's front line of defense, and end the Cold War... As I continue to research the origins of US intelligence, I keep finding ONI and MID (The Military Information Division (MID) was the first military intelligence branch of the United States Army and the United States Department of War, operating from 1885 to 1903.) In January 1863, Major General Joseph Hooker established the Bureau of Military Information for the Union Army during the Civil War, headed by George H. Sharpe. Allan Pinkerton and Lafayette C. Baker handled similar operations for their respective regional commanders. All of those operations were shut down at the end of the Civil War in 1865.[2] In 1885, the Army established the Military Intelligence Division (MID). In 1903, the MID was placed under the new general staff in an elevated position. I truly feel that Intelligence DID NOT happen without Military involvement... look who ran the CIA. Even the first civilian was Allen Dulles, ex-Military Intelligence Just how I see it... DJ Galloway > Kenney > Canada > Osborne > Humes > Boswell > Finck Stover > Stringer > Reibe Osborne > Ebersole > Custer > Reed LeMay/Taylor > McHugh > AF1 Col Swindle Gen Wehle > Lt Lipsey/Lt Bird Without Calloway, Kenney and Burkley

Consider this Steve: In Russia and many non-American countries the Father's name is included in the full proper name of a person. We don't follow that exactly here but only kinda sorta.... George Herbert Walker Bush for example includes family names as "middle" names... moreso even with women: Ruth Avery Hyde Paine... Hyde being her father's name This is a few pages earlier... I don't think this particular point adds to your theory. But hey, you know I'm liking it....

No doubt history is missing key documents between August and Dec 1963. Our 10,000 piece puzzle only has 7,000 pieces... yet they can be arranged in a million different ways...

Rather than posting it twice...

I can only venture a guess about that Brendan... Either there was no photo sent (hence the Oswald photo not being stapled to the paperwork) or it was created after the fact... where are those other 2 copies she talks about? (side note: reminds me of the "master sheet" of all incoming rifle shipments that Mike Scribor said he kept at Kleins, in addition to those 2 bogus pages of rifle serial numbers given to the WC - would LOVE to have seen what that says) "If we accept that someone other than the LHO killed in Dallas was in the Cuban Consulate filing paperwork I think this action must have been perpetrated from outside the framework of the main assassination plot." YES... Let's just say that Oswald was doing FBI undercover work trying to get closer to JURE members to report on them. But it appears that the men he is with are part of the pre-assassination set-up to sheep-dip him as crazy, a great shot, willing to kill JFK and said so. The follow-up call to Odio is simply too strange for anything else. At this point one must decide whether TAMPA and CHICAGO were real attempts on his life or false flag... Given the info we have on Vallee and the Chicago Plot and what happened to Abe Bolden... I see them as real attempts. Say he is killed in Tampa by a Cuban sharpshooter or in Chicago by a team of 4 shooters yet blamed on Vallee... How does that affect the setting up Oswald in Dallas? It blows it out of the water.... They even tried to tie Oswald to Vallee.... the actions and activities Oswald found himself directed towards serve 2 purposes in my mind... the first is to maintain the cover, the bona fides for Oswald's penetrations... PLUS it could easily be turned into a simmering conspiracy with other Cubans to get JFK back to Bay of Pigs... Read thru what Alvarado did and said and when... and what Phillips did about it.... I just get the feeling that info on Arthur Vallee would have been connected to the same sources if Chicago was successful... ------------------------------- JFK is killed and LHO did not do it but would be framed for it... LEE HENRY OSWALD in both 10/10 cables is sent by "C BUSTOS" who was JOHN WHITTEN's assistant. The difference of course being that the one from CIA to NAVY/STATE/FBI presents an immediate conflict between description and LEE HENRY's birth date. On the right is the "same" info sent back to Mexico City... that it says "attempted" to renounce is a dead giveaway for up to that moment very few knew he only "attempted" it and did not fully renounce it and become a USSR Citizen. That WHITTEN's own assistant is the source of the information which according to Simpich begins the mole hunt only goes to show 1) how little Mr. Trejo knows of the situation and 2) how much more realistic the sources of those calls and transcripts are the CIA itself, as a ace in the hole should a Dallas be needed. Whether or not Duran and Azcue were double agents for the US, for Cuba... along with the massive number of other "spies" running around trying to steal them from the other side, I think it's safe to say that Mexico City's initial purpose had nothing to do with the JFK assassination.

Ok... so we finally get to the bottom line... you think Oswald did some shooting that day do ya? you think Oswald was PART of the assassination? As for the Mexico City side show... those who show up here with much to say on their soapbox tend to have the least amount of supporting evidence and are generally standing on the shoulders of someone else's work. Now speaking of Simpich... you've read the entire thing ? Regardless of the theories he tests, the FACTUAL INFO offered makes your opinions moot... where any and all unsupported humble opinions belong... You've read the 6 chapters I wrote specifically about the evidence of the trip and why it fails so miserably. Mr Curtis = Win Scott btw... Where does this info originate Craig? Who conveys this info and how does it proceed from there? Really. Can you please post or link us to YOUR hundreds of pages of research with sources... Or how about ANYTHING where you did the research and you found a conclusion to share... There's a big difference between standing on the sidelines criticizing other's work.... and producing work yourself, putting it out there for discussion, and learning a thing or two. What any of us WANTS is irrelevant... what can you reasonable PROVE using everything at our disposal... I proved the FBI covered the CIA's xxx about lying about Oswald in Mexico City, most likely since he was in Dallas and ultimately at the Odio's door when the CIA placed min in MX calling the Soviet Military Attache.... where do YOU suppose he got that number? Rhetorical Craig... since I see by your other posts - verifying what you post is not something you care to do... In "The Finger Finally Points" thread you write: Hello Paul (Brancato), Let me explain that last sentence a bit further. Oswald was a Marxist. When he applied for his visa passport before going to the Soviet Union, the first country he listed as a point of interest was Cuba. This is the application where he gets his father's name wrong... First off it was not a "point of interest" but a list of countries to be visited... yet by neglecting to be thorough you dismiss the box next to this which asks: PURPOSE OF TRIP "To attend the college of A. Schweizer Chur Switzerland, and the Un. of Turku, Turku Finland. To visit all other countries as a Tourist" So prior to his leaving for Russia, he lists Cuba yet mentions nothing having to do with Cuba as a PURPOSE. Now fast forward to 1963... In June of 1963, just before the Oswald Project begins and his move to New Orleans, Oswald applies for yet another Passport... He's been associated with Marxism and Soviet newspapers, talking politics and about communism, etc.... Does this same interest in CUBA - now more important than ever and only months away - show up on this application? hmmmm... not so much Craig... what happened to, how'd you put it - the first country he listed as a point of interest was Cuba - ?? Where's CUBA when it would carry the greatest implications... In June of 1963 Oswald no longer listed CUBA as a "country to be visited" Why only do a half-baked job of presenting the information, so much so as to skew what the evidence actually said?

The next page asks - "Other Citizenship" and he replies "NONE"... ?? and "Worked at a Radio plant as Assembler" Are you thinking that they're talking about 2 different people?

Craig.... you're willing to take the word of 3 KGB agents despite there not being any evidence of this man's existence outside the Cuban Consulate... We are not "bashing" anything. Anne Goodpasture working with the Russian desk officer, Win Scott and for David Atlee Phillips sends a cable from MX to HQ on Oct 8 suggesting the image she KNOWS is not Oswald, is LEE OSWALD because the translation reveals it. The photo is from Oct 4th at 12:22 not the 1st... and is not the same as the photo on the 2nd... this message stemming from the Tarasoff translation starts the ball rolling... you notice how often his entire name is used whenever referred to: Lee Harvey Oswald yet in this case, LEE OSWALD leaving the necessary room for the HENRY 201 file to do its thing. If you have ANYTHING to corrocorate these three KGB agents... please post... thanks. DJ From State Secret: The last time Goodpasture was interrogated about this phone call, her interrogator referred to the caller on September 28 as “Oswald or an Oswald substitute”. Goodpasture didn’t even argue with him. She herself had referred in the past to “the man calling himself Oswald”, and “the ‘alleged’ Oswald”. The American translators of the tapes were not interviewed for 13 years after the assassination The Americans report that an audiotape of the September 28 call was delivered to the CIA’s Boris and Anna Tarasoff. This wiretapped call contained three different languages – as Boris translated Russian and Anna translated English while the monitors provided a Spanish translation, they worked on it together. Boris Tarasoff testified fifteen years later that he thought the Russian speaker as probably an officer named Konstantinov - although the Mexico City station prided itself as identifying all callers whenever possible, no intelligence officer or Warren staffer ever sought the identity of the Russian who spoke with Duran and Oswald. This flat refusal to identify which Soviet spoke with Oswald falls into the same category as the Agency’s failure to question Duran or the Tarasoffs. The only reasonable explanation is that they knew what would they would find out and they didn’t want to know. Media consultant Brian Litman interviewed all of the Soviet officers, and by the end of this year we may know if a Soviet officer ever reported receiving this call. Stunningly, as we will see, neither of the Tarasoffs were never interviewed by anyone about their transcriptions of Oswald until thirteen years after the assassination, even though Boris’ transcription - under his pseudonym of “Douglas Feinglass” - was presented as authoritative evidence to CIA headquarters on November 23, 1963. No American ever interviewed Sylvia Duran for 13 years after the assassination The FBI couldn't find a shred of evidence he was there... and why would Hoover specifically call out the CIA for the "FALSE STORY re: OSWALD in Mexico"... Win Scott and Clark Anderson both write that there is no evidence of him other than the transcripts and the word of those at the Consulate... Why would Lee Harvey Oswald sign his name correctly on the Visa... yet simply copy the Visa order for the hotel registry? You can WANT him to have been in Mexico City..... but desire sadly does not make it true. The trinkets he supposedly brought back from Mexico were not sold in Mexico... the exchange ticket is found in Aug 1964... Does it serve the CIA to show a photo of THE Oswald in Mexico City, regardless of a conspiracy or Lone Nut conclusion? Of course it does.... Does Lee Oswald know his name enough not to sign it "Lee, Harvey Oswald"? The hotel Manager personally writes in the names of guests each day they stay in the room other than for their check-in... as the manager repeats each name in rooms 1-17 the handwritting is identical... but then we get to room 18 and Oswald... Like the rest of the evidence - one FBI asset in the Gobernacion handled all of this....

And we're supposed to believe that this man was a trained Radar Operator when everything in his Marine files points to him being an unskilled mechanic... Which in turn means the training HARVEY rec'd was not the same as LEE. Oswald was a non-citizen alien who had an Alien Identity card... why they switch the name around and use "Citizen" may simply be clerical BS.... Not sure if you ever saw this Steve but I found this pdf containing reports related to his Marine Service and something as strange appears... The FBI writes that the SELECTIVE SERVICE NUMBER for LEE HARVEY OSWALD 43-354-39-37 is actually his Social Security number 43-354-3937 Now Steve Gaal posted this a while back - which makes this number even more suspect... what IS going on?

Thanks Mike... If I remember correctly it was JURE who worked with RFK and DRE who was linked with CIA... Not sure if you've seen these, given your focus on Joannides....

DSL - what is their motivation to be truthful? The only mention of NAMES begins with the faked calls on OCT 1st... At 10:45am on 10/1/63 a call came into the Russian Consulate (despite this man using the Soviet Military Attache # for call #1 on the 27th... and then again incorrectly on Oct 3rd. anyway... "LEE OSWALD" and "KOSTIKOV" are introduced into the conversation by an Oswald impostor and a Russian KGB agent... Until that transcript there is no information as to who is meeting with Duran and Azcue... It is then Win Scott and Amb Mann who reinforce the KOSTIKOV story.... if theirs were the only evidence to consider, okay... but that's not the case. No reason not to discuss it right here David. Bus the FBI put him on leaves New Orleans at 12:20pm on 9/25 (a Sept 1964 report on MAJOR GREEN , Terminal Manager Continental Bus and this 12:20pm bus, is back-dated to Dec 1963 to appear as if the 12:20pm bus was always an option.... Here is the original report: WCD183 p22 there is no 12:20pm bus.... yet and here is the report from September 21, 1964 - only days before the WCR is released... WCD1553 p6 And the revised and back-dated report which mirrors the 9/21/64 report... The info about the 12:20pm bus was not initially considered... yet the two buses bound for Mexico City would not get Oswald to Houston in time.... 1st stop Houston where he supposedly arrives after midnight... Testimony from the Twifords becomes relevant http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/twifor_e.htm Using the route offered the bus heads south after Houston... There is a record of a single ticket sold in Houston https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11039#relPageId=7&tab=page yet on the very next page Marina states that the clothing HAMMETT described is not anything Oswald owned (white/brn pullover, white dungarees and dirty white canvas shoes - pretty good description given the timeframe - no?) Thru Corpus Christi - YET; there is compelling evidence that Oswald was seen in Austin at the SSS office on the 25th... which would make sense since Oswald was on the way to Dallas....When shown a photo of HARVEY, both Ronnie Dugger and Mrs. Stella Norman claim the person they met was “identical with Oswald”. As corroboration we have Olin Hamilton in Dallas who claims to have gotten an application from a "Lee Harvey Oswald" just after Sept 23, 1963 https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=511 Neuvo Laredo is Next.... Then the claimed FLECHA ROJAS trip to Monterrey leaving at 2pm to travel 3.5 hours in order to catch the FLECHA ROJAS bus in Monterrey leaving at 3:30pm. Then the Aussie girls supposedly climb aboard yet they took DEL NORTE buses... as did the McFarlands... So how about you lay it bare David... if I'm wrong here I'll fix it... what is it about this map is "seriously incorrect" ?

And thanks B.A. for remaining one of the most thoughtful of posters... You in the same thread as PT is... IMHO ... an example of the absolute extremes in on-line posting... Aint gonna learn what you don't wanna know

No Paul.. it does nothing of the sort. your use of pronouns is also a bit weary.... who is "they" ? As for PROOF... you still have yet to offer any. all we ever get is your "humble" opinions. When do we get the meat that supports the opinions?

Bill did an amazing job... Like Armstrong, filled with info and sources to make one's own mind up... With a million different ways to put the puzzle together, is it no surprise the finished image looks so different in everyone's individual mind's eye?

First off Paul, the man's name was Jack WHITTEN. aka John H Scelso. The CIA decided early on that to protect the LI- tapping programs they would only use Duran's info. Maybe actually READ State Secret, y'know? Jack Whitten, who was the CIA’s original investigator of the assassination, wrote in the days after 11/22 that “no source then at our disposal had ever actually seen Lee Oswald while he was in Mexico". That is remarkable, as the CIA’s sources inside the Cuban compound later told House Select Committee on Assassinations staffer Ed Lopez that the man who visited them was not Oswald.[ 111 ] Last sentence 2nd paragraph The first investigator of the JFK assassination for the CIA was C/WH/3 John Whitten, the chief of the Central American desk for the Western Hemisphere division. low-level flunky? Secondly... please stop... your posts insult our intelligence. Bill writes: Others who may have known some kind of operation was in place – but not necessarily the details, which would have been provided on a need-to-know basis – include WH head JC King, John Whitten at the Mexican desk, Whitten’s assistant Charlotte Bustos, Soviet officers Stephan Roll and Bill Bright, and Angleton’s liaison Jane Roman. Scott was described as a “fanatic” about running a “remarkably compartmentalized station”. It’s hard to imagine Scott being cut out of the molehunt, and it’s equally hard to imagine Scott wanting more than a couple of the Mexico City personnel in the know.

For a historically factual presentation of Jack Ruby please read thru this before accepting anyone's "IMHO" conclusions http://harveyandlee.net/Ruby/Ruby.html NOTE: the preceding document concerning Jack Rubenstein, of Chicago, working as an informant for the HUAC is based upon a memorandum signed by “L.S.” on 11/24/47. In 1982 Nixon told his former aide and confidante (Roger Stone), “The damn thing is, I knew this Jack Ruby. Murray (Chotiner) brought him to me in 1947, said he was one of 'Johnson's boys' and that LBJ wanted us to hire him as an informant to the Committee. We did.”

Azcue was most definitely Cuban intelligence Brendan... and the object of plans to get him to defect.... it was non-stop down there at this time... Agents trying to turn doubles who in turn triple the recruiter... Castro's intelligence ran circles around the US since we were and are a free society... As I read history it seems to me he knew of the assassination plans against him before most anyone. It was believed that even among those who spoke with Bobby there were double-agents reporting back to Fidel... From State Secret: I have no reason not to accept the research and docs offered.... On the other hand, when one of Castro’s double agents entered the country, Harvey treated him with kid gloves. Other CIA officers were not so careful. During December 1962, Cuban housing leader Jose Ricardo Rabel stole an airplane from an agricultural agency and defected to the USA. Rabel had been running the peasant housing program Viviendas Campesinas for the past three years. Harvey knew that Rabel was preparing to defect. Rabel was debriefed for some time. He had grown up with Fidel. He said he was now being hounded by the Cuban Communist Party. Rabel’s predecessor at the housing program was Eusebio Azcue, a famous architect and the Cuban consul. Just weeks after Rabel’s defection, Harvey proposed that Mexico City make a play to recruit the Cuban consul Eusebio Azcue. Such a bold move, if successful, would reveal a great deal about the inner workings of Castro’s leadership team. --- There was a Cuban informant that was central to the effort to recruit Azcue during the summer of 1963. This man was LITAMIL-3, a diplomat of more than 30 years in Mexico A successful recruitment of Consul Eusebio Azcue would have been an intelligence bonanza. Azcue had a colorful history that attracted the Mexico City station. Azcue had been active in the Spanish Civil War.[ 71 ] Before Castro came to power, Azcue was in a pro-Castro group that had sent guns and ammo through Venezuela into the Sierra.[ 72 ] As mentioned earlier, Azcue had even served as a bodyguard to the Communist journalist Teresa Proenza. But there was another side to Azcue, a side that American intelligence officers were hoping to exploit. While sitting as a consul at the Cuban embassy in 1962, Azcue said that he would leave the embassy if Cuba were to become a terrorist state.[ 73 ] Jose Antonio Casas felt free to confide to his old friend Azcue that he planned to defect from Cuba, and Azcue did not turn him over to the authorities.[ 74 ] --- Although Bill Harvey may have used a lead from Rabel to probe Azcue, Harvey was a stickler for security. Harvey claimed that he was always worried that Castro agents had penetrated his assassination plans.

Understood.... if he simply went to Mexico as an innocent man (at the time) the travel details would not have needed 1500 documents to prove it - no? The exchange ticket at the border was the one and only exchange ticket process that night.... the same man who typed up the cards for US Consul HARVEY CASH is the man who processed LEE's exchange ticket.... the one and only exchange order and one of the very few white people traveling.... and NO ONE remembers him... Not sure if you ever have seen this... After consul HARVEY CASH tells HQ that there is no indication of mode of transport (despite the impression he has form the evidence that Oswald was in a car)... STATE and CIA were on the same page re: Oswald from the start... Amb MANN even sends info thru non-state Dept channels The "SAME SOURCE" also provided the hotel registry, the immigration records, the tickets, and every other item of evidence to the FBI... Question then becomes - is "HARVEY OSWALD LEE - H.O. LEE" the same person, if real at all, as the man Ruby shot? I also found that GAUDET's description about the people at the I&NS office that morning... does not jive with other, non-CIA affiliated people who were interviewed.

Nice stuff Mike.... A question. The men at Odio's claimed they were representing JURE, if you do... how do you see that intersecting with DRE info above?

Hi there Brendan... welcome to the forum and thanks for your thoughtful response. Duran tells us the person she saw in person was not the man Ruby shot. Same as Azcue. Maybe they're lying. CORNWELL - Correct?... Did you look at the photos when he brought them back, careful about to be sure that it was the same man who was standing in front of you?TIRADO - Yes. (Why not ask whether the man returning with the photos was Oswald?) ---------------- CORNWELL - Then what did you do with the application?TIRADO - Well, I used to put it in a file, and uh, I used to keep one copy, another to send (2), the original (3), we used to send to Cuba. And I think I have another file (4). That's 4 copies - yet she only said she typed out and had the man sign 2 of them (with different signatures)... how can there be 4 copies? I've dropped a few things into the post to consider... but asking whether someone did something in Mexico City when the evidence which places him in Mexico City at the time is not authentic is kind of a non-starter... PROVE he was in MX first, THEN talk about what he did or didn't do there... lol. Duran claims the application was typed with a carbon... Despite the WCR getting the original mixed up with the carbon we notice a few things 1 - there are no staples on the photo on the carbon 2 - no matter how you line it up, you cannot create a carbon copy of the original on the right 3 - we literally have no info on the origins of these 2 photos or the Chain of Custody for these applications....

And therein lies the entire problem Paul... What you believe and what you can support are similar like apples and tires.... The CIA was surprised by the JFK assassination.... ? This is your POV now... ? THIS is how Mystery Man was created.... from the wrong day...

Changing subjects when you have nothing to support your voodoo analysis is nothing new Paul... That you can't grasp the evidence for H&L is also expected from you and your limited abilities to understand the subject matter. You haven't... not a single thing yet here you are... vapidly and voraciously defending your right to be so wrong... I applaud your persistence in the face of insurmountable odds.