David Josephs

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

This is problematic because according to John Armstrong's book, it was Lee whom Nagell was associated with. Nagell first met Lee in Japan, and then in a meeting with Lee in Mexico (in July 1963), and then in New Orleans. Since only Lee went to Japan, Armstrong seems to be right.

Do you want to change your opinion? Or do you have an alternative explanation?

A number of people - also according to John - were aware of both men... Nagell was one of them....  Ruby another...

I forget the entire list...  I also feel that many of the things that are attributed to Harvey were created and/or signed by Lee...

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

One thing I'd like to clear up is whether it was LEE or HARVEY doing all this stamp work. Based on everything I know, I tend to think that it was LEE who was spotted with the anti-Castro Cubans, and in a car going to Mexico. (But not going to the embassies.) And meeting with Nagell. Any thoughts on this?

Great question...

My $.02 suggests it was Harvey.   Lee was a marine, a fighter, a spy, a rogue....    yet I forgot to mention John's work on this:

The Dallas Police did not find a Warrior Stamp Kit at either Ruth Paine's or

Oswald's rooming house after the assassination. The Warrior Stamp Kit was not initialed

by Dallas Police detectives, was not listed on the DPD inventories of November 22-23,

and was not photographed on the floor of the Dallas Police station. 27

If anyone knows the inventory taken and returned, it's John.

"Harvey Lee"... interesting.

So, it may be possible that Michael Paine stayed behind in the area. Someone in the D.C./PA/Baltimore area was impersonating LHO in several places during that time frame.

On 9/14/2017 at 11:45 AM, Ty Carpenter said:

Is this new information? I have never come across this before. Didn't Nagell state that the assassination was to take place in late September, probably the 26th, "presumably" in Washington D.C.? Then here we have some type of Oswald in D.C. on the 27th!

Yup... the 27th was when Nagell foretold the killing to Hoover.   I'm thinking this is going to help the Harvey and Lee scenario quite a bit...

That is unless Oswald was flown all over the country that day by someone we know... either way, the FBI explanation is BS...  

I wonder how the readers feel between Sylvia Odio and her sister seeing Oswald... and this report via the complicit SS?

Seems to me this is one of those docs only needed to prove Oswald was within a planned conspiracy... since he was deemed a Lone Nut, how he got to DC would have been a problem as big as Mexico...  

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Wow, that's great to hear! Because I know I'm taking a few bold leaps. For example, by saying that I don't believe Oswald would do that silly stamping. That statement seems pretty bold considering he was a young guy and some young guys do silly things. But Oswald doesn't strike me as being that type of person. He seems pretty sober and a bit of an intellectual to me.

Anyway, eliminating just that possibility goes a long ways in narrowing down what could have happened.

 

I posted this before Sandy....  Seems the same squared off lettering occurs within the test circle..

This was the evidence allowing Oswald to bypass the Mexican/US screening at the border for vaccinations... If you didn't have a card, you were pulled and vaccinated...

Between his photo skills and some of the spycraft he picked up (we are seeing he was not the bumbling idiot made out to be)
I think it very likely he created a great many of the finished altered works

my $.02

23 minutes ago, Terry Adams said:

Are you saying that the CIA did not kill, or have JFK killed?  I thought that was a given among the CTers!

Not a given Terry...  but then again is comes down to labels.

In my world the CIA of 1960 drew breath from the Military which directed it, funded it, supported it...
(IMO the CIA was created to take heat off ONI and MID... the true historic spy organizations of this country...  Hoover's SIS was not made of military men the same way OSS was...
The first CIA directors were Military with Dulles the first "civilian" despite his close Military history)

The military also provided the cover and lockdown...  no way ROSE was doing the autopsy in Texas...  although he does Tippit and Oswald.

As for "had him killed" I'd suggest a deeper dig into TEXTRON's purchase of BELL... and the players involved.
Lawyers and Bankers Terry....   All the rules and all the money...  look at Cravath, Swain and Moore - law firm. 

Representation of the .01% and the Military Industrial Congressional Complex...
Sun Life, Arthur & Royal Little, Bank of Boston, CIA Gen Cabell, McCloy, Gilpatrick (Asst Sec Def), G William Miller, American Research & Development Corp, Prudential Life, Hancock Life

These are from  Rothschild/Morgan/Rockefeller partnerships and imo represents those who could make that sort of decision and insure it's success.

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

James,

I read your books.  And I can say without hesitation that when it comes to Ruth Paine you don't know what you're talking about.  Yet you double-down every chance you get.

Also, you claim that Edwin Lopez told you that he was unsure if Oswald was ever in Mexico City in September 1963, although Edwin Lopez himself is video-taped publicly saying that he was very sure that Oswald was in Mexico City at that time.

Your push to distract attention from the Radical Right CT, and to pull the discourse back to that crippled, 50-year-old CIA-did-it CT is also disappointing.  

So, you see, some people do read your books -- and just about everything you write.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

"Reading" as you illustrate so well, is not the same as "comprehending"...

As for Lopez... you mean to say people said one thing and meant another in this case ???   Especially when it meant appeasing Hoover... ? 

As for Jim's understanding of Ruth versus your painful explanations of same... your credibility and insight is woefully lacking and without defenders or supporters despite the years...

You go on hoping someone will take up your cause and reading other's work... the rest of us will just keep producing the work from which you may learn some day.

FWIW... the cover of the book is explained as a composite of Harvey and Lee's face...  not a doubled sided composite of the same person.

Trump-esque gobble Dee-goop ...  but the explanation will be "so good, oh so good, you'll be so happy....  trust me"

18 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I don't either.  Agreed.  But the the bogus DoD ID card is fascinating.  Do you think Harvey could have put this together on his own?  Are you absolutely certain the signature isn't Lee's?

No, not sure about the signature yet it seems to be...  I always found that Lee was the source for the better penmanship while Harvey angles it more forward and rushed thru it...

FWIW 

1 hour ago, Robert Charles-Dunne said:

The man is as dishonest as he is ill-equipped to debate with others here.

That such undiluted idiocy still appears here only diminishes the stature of the Forum.

Yet another voice of respected reason calling PT out for what he is and has always been...  the starting initials for a 3 ring circus...

Paul hasn't the ability to grasp even the smallest aspect of social grace or forum etiquette.   He then posts pure unsupported opinion which he acknowledges as such, yet when shown the falseness of the underlying assumptions backing the opinion... he makes no adjustment other than to dig the heels in further...

Sadly those with this type of "ailment" are completely without self-awareness... they can't comprehend that what their doing is obviously and easily seen for the sham it remains yet cannot seem to help themselves from stopping or adjusting the approach.

Paul will continue to bang away at the keyboard happy in the fact his posts create such a stir... really the only way for him to garner any attention... at least as he remains so wrong, other members will interact with him...  

He serves as a good learning experience for the patience needed to suffer fools...

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Here's another mystery:

I have taken the photo that's on the military ID card, split it in halves, and pasted together the left half to its mirror image, and the right half to its mirror image. The image made from the right-half looks like HARVEY, but from the left-half looks like LEE. So the photo that's on the military ID card appears to be a composite photo.

But how can that be? Presumably that photo was taken in Minsk for some sort of Russian ID. (It has the semicircular white area and stamp.)

BTW, to test this process for determining whether a photo is a composite or not, I used the same process on a known photo of HARVEY. The resulting left-half and right-half images both looked like HARVEY. I did the same with a photo of Lee (the 1959 passport photo) and both the left-half and right-half images looked like LEE. So the process seems to be reliable.

 

I think this is what you did....   But I don't see a LEE lookalike from either side

????

18 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

I disagree with Horne that Zack Stout is "1st Sgt. B Stout" who signed the affidavit dated 04SEP59. FWIW

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/40153

This is a link to Armstrong's ZACK STOUT binder...

And we can chalk this up to coincidence?  Byline is RICHARD STOUT...

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP75-00149R000600170048-9.pdf

I'll keep looking.....

1 hour ago, Lance Payette said:

How did an unlikely character like LHO become part of it?

The same way Arthur Valle "would" have...  he was chosen based on his activities which from one POV can be seen as developing bona-fides for Cuban group infiltration while from another POV we can see the step by step positioning of the man should he be needed as the patsy.  With plots stopped in both Tampa and Chicago only weeks before, Oswald was certainly not the only object of interest for a patsy... 

Yet we are to remember Alvarado's story in Mexico...  Oswald was part of a Cuban conspiracy tying all the parties together... yet that now had to change to a LONE NUT.

The real wholesale reason the evidence ALL incriminates Oswald is because he didn't do it and it all HAD to... there could be no other confederates running around...

Take Oswald out of the equation and JFK still gets killed before he leaves TX...  

I'd highly suggest reading FALSE MYSTERY.  Salandria sees thru the BS within hours it appears...  and he sat with Fonzi to talk about it.

            "I'm afraid we were misled," Salandria said sadly.  "All the critics, myself included, were misled very early.  I see that now.  We spent too much time and effort micro-analyzing the details of the assassination when all the time it was obvious, it was blatantly obvious that it was a conspiracy.  Don't you think that the men who killed Kennedy had the means to do it in the most sophisticated and subtle way?  They chose not to.  Instead, they picked the shooting gallery that was Dealey Plaza and did it in the most barbarous and openly arrogant manner.  The cover story was transparent and designed not to hold, to fall apart at the slightest scrutiny.  The forces that killed Kennedy wanted the message clear:  'We are in control and no one -- not the President, nor Congress, nor any elected official -- no one can do anything about it.'  It was a message to the people that their government was powerless.  And the people eventually got the message.  Consider what has happened since the Kennedy assassination.  People see government today as unresponsive to their needs, yet the budget and power of the military and intelligence establishment have increased tremendously.

            "The tyranny of power is here.  Current events tell us that those who killed Kennedy can only perpetuate their power by* promoting social upheaval both at home and abroad.  And that will lead not to revolution but to repression.  I suggest to you, my friend, that the interests of those who killed Kennedy now transcend national boundaries and national priorities.  No doubt we  are dealing now with an international conspiracy.  We must face that fact -- and not waste any more time micro-analyzing the evidence.  That's exactly what they want us to do.  They have kept us busy for so long.  And I will bet, buddy, that is what will happen to you.  They'll keep you very, very busy and, eventually, they'll wear you down."

46 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

I think the ID is real and that it was fraudulently prepared for Oswald by a third party on 9/3 or 9/4, 1959.

Sorry if I missed where you posted this...  but aren't these cards good for 3 years.. Doesn't that mean a Dec 7, 1959 original creation date?

Well then if Lee was discharged in March '59 as Gorsky states...   and was part of this overall plan...

They would have used his card, given willingly.   (I realize that accepting Harvey and Lee is part of this exercise. Without them we'd need to find another way to acquire the goods... with the help of the FBI/CIA and DoD.... seems to me one could acquire/create whatever was needed.)

On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 7:44 AM, Michael Walton said:

Here's what he had on when they took him out of the picture show. Same shirt you see him wearing at the police department. I was under the impression that he only "...changed his britches" after he left the TSBD.

In all the Interview reports as well as Fritz's... they all say he "said" he changed his button down shirt and pants...  They also claim he took the bus all the say home and/or to the theater...

FWIW I think this was the Beckley bus and not McWatters' bus going down Zang.  He took a bus, just not McWatters'

5 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Well if Oswald was wearing that shirt (and I have no reason to doubt he was), he'd have to have rolled the sleeves up above his elbows in order for him to be Prayer Man.

I think that researchers are generally unaware of the evidence you posted here. Because I've seen many who think he was wearing the same clothes he had on when taken custody, and others who think it is unknown what he was wearing at work. And I've never seen any of the Pray Man advocates explain how it was that Prayer Man seemed not to be wearing a long sleeve shirt.

To be fair... we don't know what the Briarloom shirt looked like... but it was a button-down, and the shirt he was arrest in was not...

The changing of his clothes is acknowledged by 3 independent sources: Fritz, Bookout and Kelley in their interview reports...  ( Hosty too I think )

I can't know everything offered related to PM so if you say so... but it doesn't look like PM has long sleeves... and he appears with Lovelady... 
Shelley is to Lovelady's left and closer to the door...  I don't see Wesley in Altgens.

Lovelady gets from the right side of the opening to the center WHILE the motorcade is passing by... and is then over to the left of the opening in color.... (looking out from TSBD)

Have you or anyone come across anything that corroborates Lovelady moving to his left during the motorcade?

Just a quick side note...  the point about the shirt being changed is critical to many things that follow...

Specifically Bledsoe's testimony id'ing him on the bus...  along with Cecil McWatters and Roy Milton....   this is a description of the arrest shirt AFTER the fight tearing off 3 buttons and ripping the elbow...  The only way Bledsoe puts him in that shirt on that bus is if she was provided with the info....  Oswald was not in that shirt and was never on that bus... and McWatters admitted so*. 

Mr. BALL - Now, what color shirt did he have on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - He had a brown shirt.
Mr. BALL - And unraveled?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Hole in his sleeve right here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - Which is the elbow of the sleeve? That is, you pointed to the elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, it is.
Mr. BALL - And that would be which elbow, right or left elbow?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Right.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything on. Was the shirt open or was it buttoned?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; all the buttons torn off.
Mr. BALL - What did he have on underneath that?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't know.
Mr. BALL - Do you know the color of any undershirt he had on?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.

*First paragraph...  Bledsoe was lying...  the taxi cab driver and the 2 coats, both the wrong color.... E. Roberts says no jacket at all when Oswald comes thru...

27 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

As for the shirt, my understanding is that we don't know what shirt Oswald was wearing.

Not true... he changed out of a Briarloom Traditionals shirt which he left with his pants in his dresser after changing at Beckley.

One of the first exhibits the FBI/DPD did not take a photo of....  but they took the overshirt to DC that night...

With regards to something in his hands....    you feel he'd hold a camera in the same position, not moving his hands or separating them at all?

This is before and after...   nothing seems to have moved at all...  The head is not bent over to look down into a camera...

I just don't see it that way I guess...

From Bookout's report:

I've heard about that camera or "something" in his hands...  I don't agree, especially that it was a camera...

This is the best enhancement I've seen to day...  The hands are separated

My concern that it's not Oswald are the sleeves being rolled up so high...  he did not wear clothes like that...
unless I'm wrong about the sleeves...

PM's hair markings and squared shoulders start pushing me into the Oswald direction...

and then there's the Carolyn Arnold statement... even the messed up FBI one puts Oswald near the PM position

That's DANNY GARCIA ARCE....

Seems that instant his face was in a smirk...  here's another where the concern is a bit more apparent on his face...

Mr. BALL. Where did you make out the direction of the sound? 
Mr. ARCE. Yeah, I thought they came from the railroad tracks to the west of the Texas School Book Depository. 

Remegio Arce claims it was Herminio Diaz Garcia who shot JFK...

Kind of interesting that Danny's last 2 names are the claimed shooter GARCIA and the man doing the claiming ARCE...  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/johnfkennedy/10452110/The-Cuban-assassin-with-a-deadly-secret-I-shot-JFK.html

Martinez told them of a friend from student days called Herminio Diaz Garcia, an introverted but exceptionally brave man. Diaz, a crack shot, had worked as head of security at a casino in Havana run by the Mafia boss Santo Trafficante. He was also a political assassin, responsible for as many as 20 deaths, and at the time of the Kennedy assassination he was in the United States.

Martinez said that, while detained in one of Castro’s prisons, he had met Tony Cuesta, leader of an anti-Castro raid on Cuba in 1966 that had ended in Diaz’s death. Cuesta, who was badly wounded, told him about the night of the abortive raid and words uttered by Diaz that he would never forget. Said Martinez: “Herminio confessed to Tony Cuesta that he had taken part in the death of the US president.”

Years later, in Florida, Martinez heard the same from another source, an old friend and fellow Cuban exile, Remigio Arce. “Listen,” said Arce, “the one who killed the president was our little friend.”

Summers believes Martinez, who has since died, was telling the truth. “Martinez struck me – after two days of tough interviewing of a man in his eighties – as someone with nothing to gain, who appeared to be credible. Diaz ticks the boxes. He was a known political assassin, a marksman and had worked for Santo Trafficante, one of the two prime suspects in the assassination, together with fellow Mafia boss Carlos Marcello, named by the House Assassinations Committee. He was also involved with one of the more extreme anti-Castro groups.

1 minute ago, George Sawtelle said:

David

The article seems to indicate Lymnitzer was responsible for Operation Gladio. No way.

Gladio began way before Lymnitzer arrived at NATO. I believe it was after World War ll when Gladio began their operations. In fact Allen Dulles had more to do with the creation of Gladio than did Lymnitzer, who had nothing to do with it.

That article written in 2013 is what is called fake news today. 

Agreed George....  spread the blame every few years... especially when more documents are being released.

Personally, the discussion misses the real culprits and their connections...  Partners of Cravath, Swain and Moore as well as the companies they represented created the revolving door Mil Ind Congressional Complex...  Roswell Gilpatrick was #2 at DoD, McCloy was incredibly influential and that's just the tip of the iceberg...

Find out how/why TEXTRON bought Bell Helicopter and you begin to see the CABAL so many elude to on these pages...

This starts out of England with Royal and Arthur Little... runs thru Banks in England and New England as well as Canada.... and huge insurance companies loaning millions at ridiculous terms...  to buy a failing helicopter company having lost $100M in previous years...  General CABEL of the CIA is asked about the purchase and the potential plans to use helicopters in SE Asia.

Bell was very profitable, very quickly after the purchase in 1960 with the US military spending billions on Bell helicopters and parts.  TEXTRON goes on to get their fingers into many, many of the MICC projects.

6 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

That is correct David, Kennedy shifted Lemnitzer to NATO in 1962.

I agree with you that the person of interest in the military is LeMay.

That being said... how much influence would AF General LeMay have over Naval officer Galloway?  

If we remember correctly, Galloway was out front delayed with McHugh, an AF General like LeMay only , while the coffin BS was happening at the back....

Some claim it was Galloway informing McHugh of the "plan" - suggesting a more concentrated Naval operation - while if McHugh relays LeMay's plan for the evening... seems a bit late for all that...  Galloway would have had to be informed already... no?

And obviously McHugh and Burkley were JFK picked...  getting them to do what they did must have involved some interesting leverage...

Doug,

I was under the impression he went to Europe and was there from 1962 to 1969...

In November 1962, Lemnitzer was appointed as commander of U.S. European Command, and as Supreme Allied Commander Europeof the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO). His time in command saw the Cyprus crisis of 1963–1964 and the withdrawal of NATO forces from France in 1966.

Given how LeMay secretly found his way to Bethesda that night...  do you feel he'd be more likely and more realistic than Lemnitzer...
if you have an opinion on the matter....?  If not... then I'd be looking at the command structure thru Bethesda...

I drew up a rough Org chart of the players

Rear Admirals Burkley and Galloway and 4 star Gen LeMay....  were the law in that building... With Lemnitzer out of the country I fail to see how his hand is instrumental at all...

6 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said:

I did write you a very pithy angry letter once David, in reply to your toxic provocation, though there was no mention of a death threat. The British police take that kind of thing very seriously and you would certainly be arrested for doing so. So, no death threats, just a few lines to tell you what a tawdry, vicious little man you are. And also you are a sexist barefaced xxxx!

pretty sure you meant "sexy"...        yet we both know (along with the mods) what you wrote...

7 minutes ago, Bernie Laverick said:

Far from being angry Mr Gullible, I am at the moment ecstatic. At 59 I have just released my first album to critical acclaim. It's a stonker

Well done Bernie.... enjoy every second...  

Bernie Laverick
FEBRUARY 4, 2014

When Bernie isn’t acting or singing with The Black Pearls he is working on his current project, a musical play based on the life of Marina Oswald, the widow of the alleged JFK assassin Lee Harvey Oswald.

What an amazingly small and petty man you've become BL... 
Not getting what you need at home so you spread the anger here...  well done.

Since you still haven't the first clue regarding the planning involved with the assassination or H&L...

Why again should anyone here give you or what you post anything more than a chuckle and a {sigh}...

Oh yes, that's what I thought...

No one does.

You gonna send an IM threatening to kill me again Bernie?...   or did you finally take that Anger Management class you needed...

??