David Josephs

I am fairly astonished to report that there appears to be YET ANOTHER assassination film, which is being attributed to the Secret Service--and which was taken from above. You can learn more about it at http://www.stingraysstudios.com/JFK_Film.html Who took this and from what location? It would appear to been taken from the Texas School Book Depository. But why has it not surfaced before now? And how could the ARRB have missed it? No doubt it will be consistent with films we have proven to be fake. A new chapter begins.

Y'know Jim... up until this post I was giving you the benefit of the doubt...

You ARE kidding - right?

Here is the Zfilm... Hill is already on the bumper and Jackie hasn't left her seat... unlike what you posted

WHICH IF I WERE TO GUESS is a shot from the filming of JFK the movie...

I believe we've also seen a movie that ends with a Z vantage point image of a killer on the GK... was a promo film of some sort....

Yes in deed Jim.. I am FAIRLY astonished... at you for not checking it out first...

Great work, David! You have made some excellent discoveries. One of them is that, in order for Office Chaney to have "looked back just in

time to see the president STRUCK IN THE FACE", he had to have motored forward of the president's position, which is not shown in the film.

At 39 seconds in, Chaney says, "2nd shot came and I looked back just in time to see the president STRUCK IN THE FACE by the second bullet"

Moreover--and this may be even more important than his having motored forward--Officer Hargis' reports about the limo having stopped:

Mr. BAKER - I talked to Jim Chaney, and he made the statement that the two shots hit Kennedy first and then the other one hit the Governor.

Mr. BELIN - Where was he?

Mr. BAKER - He was on the right rear of the car or to the side, and then at that time the chief of police, he didn't know anything about this, and he moved up and told him, and then that was during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get in the car, and at the time, after the shooting, from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped.

Let's take this a little at a time please Jim...

I do not agree with your conclusion about Chaney and his position... in fact

Looks to me that in Moorman this cop is looking directly at JFK and would not have a problem at all in seeing him get hit in the face...

Is this Chaney?

I also tried to isolate the cops on the right in Nix... crappy images for sure but you can readily tell they are looking directly at JFK then as I show earlier, they immediately look to the right and the Knoll....

and second I believe you meant my reference to Baker, not Hargis...no?

Yes, I noticed the same thing, David. Last June I spent two afternoons studying the MPI 4" by 5" transparencies at the 6th Floor Museum. They are glorious. Looking at Z317, it struck me that the shadow on the back of JFK's head is exactly like the shadows that appear at other places in the frame. This is what you noticed and it is even clearer in the MPI transparencies.

What ever happened to the much-vaunted "Hollywood Seven." We don't even know who they are supposed to be and all we've heard from them is a deafening silence? And for how many years has their silence been deafening?

Not sure if I understand the post... "like the shadows that appear at other places in the frame" suggests that you think the BOH shadow is consistent with the others.

What I noticed was the shadow at the back of JFK's head do not change as other similiar shadows do and in fact looks to ME like it floats over the head...

I happen to do a z317 analysis just to see how these shadows behaved... as well as a gif at high contrast to see how that area changes... that area stays VERY dark comparitively...

yet I of course view it with suspicious eyes...

and I agree with you again JT... been hearing about these glorious 35mm Hollywood frames that make it obvious... maybe saving it for the 50th?

At 39 seconds in, Chaney says, "2nd shot came and I looked back just in time to see the president STRUCK IN THE FACE by the second bullet"

No wonder they didn't call Ofc Chaney, huh?

* James Chaney (motorcycle patrolman on right rear of the Presidential limousine): “I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and that Parkland was standing by.”

Chaney does indeed say this.... yet don't they have radios for those types of communications? This seems eerily similiar to the discrepancies between Baker's affidavit and testimony...

what started as a man on the stairs becomes Oswald in the lunchroom... just sayin.

Chaney would have had to get to the lead car by the time it reaches the overpass.... and I don't believe the LEAD CAR STOPPED - or did it?

Dispatcher 12:30 p.m. KKB 364.

1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Go to the hospital - Parkland Hospital. Have them stand by.

1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there.

1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Have Parkland stand by.

Dallas 1 (Sheriff J.E. "Bill" Decker) I am sure it's going to take some time to get your man in there. Pull every one of my men in there.

Dispatcher Dallas 1, repeat, I didn't get all of it. I didn't quite understand all of it.

Dallas 1 (Sheriff J.E. "Bill" Decker) Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there.

* Bobby Hargis (motorcycle patrolman on left rear of the Presidential limousine): “The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the Chief that the President had been shot.”

Well, that's not what NIX shows.... see below... Chaney basically stops... as he says later... "I MUST have stopped"

Mr. BALL. At that time were you with Mr. Hargis?

Mr. MARTIN. No, sir; I don't believe that he went to the hospital with us. I believe he stopped there at the scene of the shooting.

Not Funny that Martin - who went along with the motorcade to Parkland, did not see the CHANEY episode...

Bill Decker says nothing about it either...

* Winston Lawson (Secret Service Agent in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine): “A motorcycle escort officer pulled along side our Lead Car and said the President had been shot. Chief Curry gave a signal over the radio for police to converge on the area of the incident.”

* Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service Agent in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine): “A motorcycle patrolman pulled up alongside of the car and Chief Curry yelled, ‘Is anybody hurt?’, to which the officer responded in the affirmative.”

Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service agent, in the lead car in front of the Presidential

limousine), November 28, 1963: “I noted that the President’s car

had axcelerated [sic] its speed and was closing fast the gap between us. A

motorcycle pulled up alongside of the car and Chief Curry yelled ‘Is anybody

hurt?’, to which the officer replied in the affirmative, and Chief

Curry immediately broadcast to surround the building. By that time we

had gotten just about under the underpass when the President’s car

pulled up alongside, and at that time Chief Curry’s car had started to

pick up speed, and someone yelled to get to the nearest hospital, and

Chief Curry broadcast for the hospital to be ready.” [statement: 21H548]

Jim...

Curry did NOT say anything about "surrounding the building" - here are all Curry's transmissions and their times...

Why would Sorrels make that up ? When he was right there when he directs them to the RR yard?

12:28 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Big crowd, yes.

12:28 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Just crossing Market Street.

12:28 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Approaching Triple Underpass.

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Go to the hospital - Parkland Hospital. Have them stand by.

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there.

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Have Parkland stand by.

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Looks like the President has been hit. Have Parkland stand by.

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Headed to Parkland. Something's wrong with Channel 1.

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Just go on to Parkland Hospital [with me].

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Get these trucks out of the way. Hold everything. Get out of the way.

12:34 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Keep everything out of this emergency entrance.

12:51 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) It's very doubtful.

12:51 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Not at this time that I know of. I don't know but I feel reasonably sure that he will not.

1:34 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) With as little attention as possible, get up and break traffic ahead of the cars.

1:37 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Yes, but don't put it on the air. (1:37 p.m.)

1:37 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Don't let anyone follow us into the field.

1:37 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) 10-4.

1:51 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) What are the circumstances of J.D. Tippit?

1:51 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Did they get the suspects?

1:51 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) 10-4.

1:52 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) 10-4.

* Chief Jesse Curry (in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine): “. . . about this time a motorcycle officer, I believe it was Officer Chaney, rode up beside us and I asked if something happened back there and he said, ‘Yes,’ and I said ‘Has somebody been shot?” And he said, ‘I think so.’”

The McIntyre crop is maybe 2 seconds later... that must be MARTIN at the back right... and maybe Chaney at the back left?

Now someone not mentioned is Baker... and his account adds even more to the notion that CHANEY did go to the lead car... BUT WHEN THE ENTIRE MOTORCADE HAD STOPPED...

AS I keep investingating this there is obviously something amiss with the film around the headshot... with the STOPPING added to the CHANEY accounts... there is something strange here,

yet with Nix and McIntyre, and now these revelations about Chaney being mistaken... (you know Jim, like Hill was mistaken about the automatic rounds at the Tippit scene )

This requires more work... imo.

Mr. BAKER - I talked to Jim Chaney, and he made the statement that the two shots hit Kennedy first and then the other one hit the Governor.

Mr. BELIN - Where was he?

Mr. BAKER - He was on the right rear of the car or to the side, and then at that time the chief of police, he didn't know anything about this, and he moved up and told him, and then that was during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get in the car, and at the time, after the shooting, from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped.

Mr. BELIN - The President's car?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir. Now, I have heard several of them say that, Mr. Truly was standing out there, he said it stopped. Several officers said it stopped completely.

Mr. DULLES - You saw it stop, did you?

Mr. BAKER - No, sir; I didn't see it stop.

Mr. DULLES - You just heard from others that it had stopped?

Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; that it had completely stopped, and then for a moment there, and then they rushed on out to Parkland.

Thanks JT...

I did the bottom graphic a while back and to ME it says that the head did not move forward - the ears line up as I used the farthest point to the rear of JFK yet still touching him...

and then he starts his fall backward....

Yet I also believe that multiple shots do hit him at this point, and the back of his head's "blackness" is helped out a little

I messed with this frame a bit... what strikes me is that there is the same darkness caused by the sunlight for the others in the limo

Jackies hair is also in the shadows but does not become what we see on the back of JFK's head...

Now to tackle Jim's post and offered quotes... stay tuned

DJ

dup

DSL -

Yes Oswald was picked out of line-ups as having fled the Tippit scene... I mis-typed... should read...

"From his room to the Tippit murder scene"

and I believe you understood that... and my point remains the same... almost a mile where few if anyone is walking (save Mrs Markham)

and not a soul sees Oswald taking this BRISK WALK...

Can you offer ANY EXPLANATION why Oswald would turn EAST ON 10th, to only wind up WEST of that location at the theater?

He could not have seen Tippit come up from behind him...

Could NOT have know Tippit would be on THAT street...

So what was EAST on/of 10th that Oswald would have been going to? Didn't Ruby have an apartment EAST of the Tippit murder?

Regarding the Tippit scene itself... Since the murder is basically time stamped by Markham, Bowley, Wright and the others who were watching TV and saw the time there as the shots were heard...

as happening a between 1:06 and 1:10...

and Scoggins lets up know that Oswald approached from the EAST...

Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this now. When you first saw this man, had the police car stopped or not?

Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he stopped. When I saw he stopped, then I looked to see why he was stopping, you see, and I saw this man with a light-colored jacket on.

Mr. BELIN. Now, you saw a man with a light-colored jacket. With relation to the police car, was the man east of the police car, west of the police car, or kind of.

Mr. SCOGGINS. Just a little east is the best I can remember.

Mr. BELIN. He was a little bit east of the police car?

Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he was just a little bit forward. The police car headed east and he was a little bit, maybe not more than the front end of the car.

So as Tippit is DRIVING EAST he comes up on a man FACING HIM... yet to be fair, Helen has this man walking EAST across Patton and Tippit catches up with him...

Scoggins also says he only sees the man after Tippit stops... so he could have easily just turned around...

Mr. BELIN. You thought the man was at the front end of the car?

Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; approximately.

Mr. BELIN. But by that you mean the front wheel or front bumper area?

Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Was he on the sidewalk?

Mr. SCOGGINS. At the time I saw him; yes.

Mr. BELIN. When you first saw him, I believe you said you saw the man's face, or did you not say that?

Mr. SCOGGINS. I couldn't see the man's face from there. I saw the face when he passed the cab.

Mr. BELIN. What led you to believe that he was walking west?

Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, he was facing west.

Mrs. MARKHAM. He was walking up 10th, away from me.

Mr. BALL. To your left?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, he was on the opposite side of the street to me like that.

Mr. BALL. Had he reached the curb yet?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Almost ready to get up on the curb.

Mr. BALL. What did you notice then?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Well, I noticed a police car coming.

Mr. BALL. Where was the police car when you first saw it?

Mrs. MARKHAM. He was driving real slow, almost up to this man, well, say this man, and he kept, this man kept walking, you know, and the police car going real slow now, real slow, and they just kept coming into the curb, and finally they got way up there a little ways up, well, it stopped.

Mr. BALL. The police car stopped?

Mrs. MARKHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. What about the man? Was he still walking?

Mrs. MARKHAM. The man stopped.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you see the man do?

Mrs. MARKHAM. I saw the man come over to the car very slow, leaned and put his arms just like this, he leaned over in this window and looked in this window.

When Serg, Harkness - minutes after the shooting - came to the back door of the SBDB, there was a bunch of men in plain clothes there, claiming, they were Secret Service.

I think those false SS men were securing the escape-route for the SBDB shooting team. (The guys Carr saw getting into the Rambler on the east side of the SBDB building...heading north, against THE one way street called HUSTON... a guy named WORELL saw another man leaving the back of the SBDB...

Goes behind TSBD: at 12:35/6 (Did he go up with Sawyer?)

Mr. HAYGOOD. At that time I talked to the colored male who was standing at the door and asked him how long he had been there, and he said he had been there some 5 minutes or so. And I asked him if anyone had came out that door, and he said that they had not.

DPD investigation at its finest...

Harkness sure gets all the importand jobs from Sawyer, huh....

Mr. BELIN - It had already been sealed off?

Mr. HARKNESS - There was two officers with Inspector Sawyer at the front.

Mr. BELIN - Were they stopping people from going in and out?

Mr. HARKNESS - I don't know.

Mr. BELIN - You don't know?

Mr. HARKNESS - No, sir; I don't know that, because I didn't go up and talk to them.

Mr. BELIN - Did you notice whether or not people were coming in and out of the building?

Mr. HARKNESS - No. I was interested in getting around to the back of the building to make sure it was.

Mr. BELIN - Then am I correct that your testimony is that you didn't notice whether people were coming in and out? Did you notice, or did you not notice whether people were coming out of the building at that time?

Mr. HARKNESS - Several officers at the area, and it was a lot of people around. I don't know whether they were going in or out or not. I couldn't say that.

Mr. BELIN - Then you went around to the back of the building?

Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN - Was anyone around in the back when you got there?

Mr. HARKNESS - There were some Secret Service agents there. I didn't get them identified. They told me they were Secret Service.

Mr. BELIN - Then did you say around the back of the building?

Mr. HARKNESS - Yes; I stayed at the back until the squad got there.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Mr. HARKNESS - I went back to the front, and Inspector Sawyer---helped get the crowd back first, and then Inspector Sawyer assigned me to some freight cars that were leaving out of the yard, to go down and search all freight cars that were leaving the yard.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Mr. HARKNESS - Well, we got a long freight that was in there, and we pulled some people off of there and took them to the station.

Mr. BELIN - You mean some transients?

Mr. HARKNESS - Tramps and hoboes.

Mr. BELIN - That were on the freight car?

Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?

Mr. HARKNESS - That was all my assignment, because they shook two long freights down that were leaving, to my knowledge, in all the area there.

We had several officers working in that area.

Mr. BELIN - Do you know whether or not anyone found any suspicious people of any kind or nature down there in the railroad yard

Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir. We made some arrests, I put some people in. Who was actually ARRESTED?

Mr. BELIN - Were these what you call hoboes or tramps?

Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN - Were all those questioned?

Mr. HARKNESS - Yes, sir; they were taken to the station and questioned.

Mr. BELIN - Any guns of any kind found?

Mr. HARKNESS - Not to my knowledge.

Finally... are we really going to even bother with our three black men on the 5th anymore? Supposedly a high powered rifle explodes 10-15 feet from their heads and one claims to be able to hear, AFTER THAT, the clink of a shell and the working of a bolt... yet as Lee mentions... nothing of a person or persons moving...

The most common sense questions wreck havoc on the official story every time...

And to bring this full circle.. Agent Sorrels MAY have encountered the same black man at the back door as Harkness did 20 minutes before, so this is STILL before 1pm

Mr. SORRELS - I don't believe it could have been more than 20 or 25 minutes at the very most.

Mr. STERN - Then you arrived at the Book Depository Building, and did you see any police officers outside the building?

Mr. SORRELS - Yes; there were officers. I recall seeing officers. I could not say any specific one.

Now, as I came into the back of the building, there was a colored man standing on the rear platform, a loading platform. And he was just standing there looking off into the distance. I don't think he knew what happened.

And I said to him, "Did you see anyone run out the back?"

He said, "No, sir."

"Did you see anyone leave the back way?"

"No, sir."

Mr. STERN - Did you get his name?

Mr. SORRELS - No, sir; I did not. I did not stop to do that, because I figured he was an employee of the building.

I went on the inside of the building and asked someone for the manager and they pointed to Mr. Truly.

I identified myself to Mr. Truly.

Mr. STERN - Just a minute.

Did you establish how long that man had been on the loading platform?

Mr. SORRELS - No, sir; I did not.

Mr. STERN - There was no policeman stationed at the loading platform when you came up?

Mr. SORRELS - I did not see one; no, sir.

Mr. STERN - And you were able to enter the building without identifying yourself?

Mr. SORRELS - Yes, sir.

As amazed as Mr Stern here sounds.... that's were this line of questioning ends.

As I've mentioned before... WHOEVER WANTED TO could have easily gotten into and out of the TSBD, if shots were fired from there, very easily.

DJ

Indeed Lee... and thanks for stepping back in... the lumps out here do wear us down...

yet your contributions remain stellar

Please keep up the great work

DJ

David J

They contacted no one to guarantee these stories. The elderly woman who talked to Oswald/Jones - not sought (probably because it was Bledsoe). The woman who was late for her train and also allegedly asked for a transfer - not sought (probably because she didn't exist). The old lady who Oswald allegedly offered his cab to - not sought (probably because she didn't exist - she appears at the bottom of Whaley's handwritten affidavit almost as an add-on). Any other passenger who was on that bus - except Bledsoe and the driver - not sought (probably because they may have spoiled the party). The man who told McWatters that JFK had been shot - not sought (probably because he didn't exist).

Let's not forget that it was Fritz who asked Oswald whether he'd taken THE cab. Not "a cab" but "the cab.". And Fritz knew about this cab BEFORE the officers who were sent to pick up Scoggins even knew about the existence of Whaley.

This story, all of it, is BS.

The fact that Roberts and Gladys Johnson both stated that the DPD were at 1026 North Beckley before 2pm was avoided in their Warren Commission testimony.

Whaley's story went through 3 completely different versions.

McWatters didn't I'D Oswald in the line-up but the Officers said he did. His hand-written affidavit changed when typed up and once again the Officers lied about what he said and when he said it. His Waren Commission testimony contains the truth of matters but they really did keep asking him to lie under oath.

There is so much to this one single aspect of the case that the thread I started runs for 14 pages - with most of the contributions, from many different members, really worth reading.

As we watch Zfilm the limo speeds off and no motorcycles follow them... NONE.

the rest of Chaney also makes sense...

Mr. STERN - You were clear that the sounds were sounds of shots?

Mr. HARGIS - Yes. sir: I knew they were shots.

Mr. STERN - All right, what did you do then? You say you parked your motorcycle?

Mr. HARGIS - Yes, uh-huh----

Mr. STERN - Where?

Mr. HARGIS - It was to the left-hand side of the street from---south side of Elm Street.

Mr. STERN - And then what did you---

Mr. HARGIS - I ran across the street looking over towards the railroad overpass and I remembered seeing people scattering and running and then I looked.

Jim F....

rather than attacking JT, can you offer anything other than CHANEY's own words that he went up ahead to the lead car?

Does anyone in the car corroborate the story?

Are any of the three motocycle men in McIntyre CHANEY?

and finally... in SUPPORT of the frontal shot... I offer this look at CHANEY and his mate as the shots are fired...

WHERE ARE THEY LOOKING?

(Note: FWIW, Chaney, the man closest to JFK outside the vehicle is NOT on the WCR witness list or is listed as the author of ANYTHING in the dallas archive.... but I'll keep looking)

Jim, where did CHANEY say he motored forward to the lead car? Sorry if I missed the reference - an interview with you?

DJ

Hi David,

Here is a shortened,stabilized version for you.

I've slowed it down.

http://24.152.179.96:8400/49F25/TOWNER3.gif

chris

Hi Chris, thanks for the great gif....

Seems to me that the distance steps from frame to frame, except for the splice, is uniform

and the limo is nowehere NEAR that curb by those people....

Look where the turn STARTS in towner... looks like center lane to center lane.... andnot WIDE at all...

curious

DJ

Agree wholeheartedly Tom...

I just can't visualize the process that allows what we see on the films to have been the end product of alteration unless either

a) there were MANY more frames taken than what we finally see (faster camera speed - 24fps and all of Chris D's work makes perfect sense)

what we see is a composite

c)

Your survey work is wonderful - thank you....

btw, how do I get a copy of "There is no Magic"?

DJ

The Hughes pause may give away the beginning of the slowing but not the entire thing as you elude to... Towner suggests no slowing or drastic right-to-left recovery....

Could be I'm just not seeing Twoner correctly and that Truly overstates the turn... Need to find other testimony about the turn....

I was under the impression a number of people testified to seeing dust kick up from a bullet hitting the street BEHIND the limo just after the turn....

Barbara something... I will look but I am SURE there are accounts of that shot...

and you're right... if only Truly mentions it I'd find that suspect....

Mr. SPECTER. How many lanes of travel were there on Elm Street?

Mr. GREER. It was either three or four lanes wide. I have forgotten.

Mr. SPECTER. In what portion of the street were you traveling?

Mr. GREER. I was right in the center of the street.

Does this look like Kellerman has something to say about the turn, but doesn't?

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know how far behind you the President's followup car was as you turned right onto Houston from Main Street?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No; I don't, but I am positive it was right on our rear wheels.

Mr. SPECTER. All right.

Now, as you turned left off Houston onto Elm, what is your best estimate of the speed of the President's automobile at that time?

Mr. KELLERMAN. As we turned onto Elm Street and the crowd, we were through the section of Dallas; we might have had--the driver picked it up because we were all through. Purely a guess, we could have been going at the most 25.

Mr. SPECTER. What would your estimate, your minimum estimate, of the speed be?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Fifteen.

Repeatedly we hear 12-15 mph when we both know the turn at Elm/Houston could NOT be taken at 15 mph....

According to the info Purvis found regarding the Plat Surveys and distances... the WCR claims that from z168-z171 they were traveling at 3.74mph yet from 171-185, 17.1mph...

Are we going to believe that they SLOWED from 12-15mph down to 3mph AFTER the 120 degree turn? onlt to immediately speed up?

Tom's data is pretty compelling in that we have distances, # of frames and "supposedly" an 18.3fps rate...

So either Truly is exaggerating a bit... or something is fishy with the films and locations related to the turn and frames 207-208 which we can talk about in a different thread...

Personally:

If it carries any weight, I would go for the "fishy"!

Interesting about the 4th floor. I believe ATF agent Frank Ellsworth was involved in a search about 130 pm and said a Manlicher Carcano was found either on the 4th or 5th floor, not the same floor as the shells.

Hi Nick..

I believe you meant to say THE MC, not "A" MC....

and when you add the number of 5th floor references from Sawyer... and what he and 2 others did between 12:34 and 12:37...

the 5th floor gets more interesting..

Former AFT agent Frank Ellsworth, who participated in a *second* search of

the book depository conducted after 1:30 p.m. on November 22, 1963,

according to a Secret Service document, confirms that the Mannlicher-Carcano was found by a DPD detective on the fourth or fifth

floor of the building, "not on the same floor as the cartridges." He

adds: "I remember we talked about it, and figured that he must have run

out from the stairwell and dropped it as he was running downstairs."

Mr. BELIN. "Traveled Zangs to Beckley and turned left and traveled on Beckley until I reached the 500 block of North Beckley. When I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped."

Now is that what you told them on that day?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is what I told them on that day.

Mr. BELIN. Well, was that the fact that you drove until you reached the 500 block, or not?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, I didn't drive until I reached the 500 block. I drove until I reached Beckley and Neely. If you would be in my place when they took me down there, when they had to force their way through the reporters to get me in the office, they wrote that up, and I signed it, because I told them that the man said he wanted to go to the 500 block of North Beckley.

the 500 block, between W 7th & W Davis is closer to the Tippit murder than the 700 block at Neely

WHY must we make the assumption that Whaley's passenger went NORTH afterward?

Mr. WHALEY. Thank you. I still would like to know where I knew you before. So would I....

Mr. BELIN. Sir, I don't know. Now, Mr. Whaley, if you like, you can come back and read this deposition after it is typed, and sign it before you mail it to Washington, or you can waive the signing of it. You have a right to read it and sign it before it goes, or you can waive the reading of it and send it directly to us in Washington.

Mr. WHALEY. Does it make any difference?

Mr. BELIN. It does not make any difference.

Mr. WHALEY. It will all be what you said and what she took down?

Mr. BELIN. What you said?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; and what I said?

Mr. BELIN. Yes.

Mr. WHALEY. That will be all right. I will waive the signing of it.

You think it possible that NECHES was changes to NEELY from the April 8 deposition?

DJ

My vote is both Mary Bledsoe and Oswald were on the bus. And then Oswald got off and took the cab.

Over.

Then who is it that Roger Craig sees in the rambler?

What happens to Oswald's jacket? NOT on the bus, yet 2 Jackets in the cab (or at least one that matches his DARK pants...

Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind of jacket, I didn't notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that almost matched the pants.

He, his shirt was open three buttons down here. He had on a T-shirt. You know, the shirt was open three buttons down there.

and if you see my previous post... Whaley is not exactly a lot of help to your conclusion....

and in the walk from Lamar to Commerce, in the midst of all this... not a single person remembers seeing Oswald.... you'd think people would admit to seeing him on that walk just cause they were there at the time, even if they didn't see him.... but we don't have that story... he just APPEARS ..

Did they ever contact the woman who Whaley called a cab for to corroborate the story?

DJ

David... Mr. L.... you, nor anyone else has can say who ran into that house - other than from Roberts' words... none.

No corroboration... no one sees Oswald between this room and the theater... NOONE David - in a residential neighborhood in the 60's with mom's kids and elderly at home... Nothing.

So please... the corroboration of the evidence... the authentication of evidence - which includes FBI reports... is paramount.

Butch Burroughs says he sold popcorn to Oswald at 1:15... his is also an uncorroborated account with the same amount of weight as Roberts... but cause that would mean Oswald did NOT kill Tippit

his story is ripped apart and attacked, like the 1:06 Markham Time...

If Oswald was on the bus then it was NOT Oswald in Whaley's cab... or Click's cab.... unless the man bought a jacket on the walk from one to the other

You want to put your stock in this man's testimony?

I'm sure you know that Neches and Beckley do not intersect...

Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had. He was dressed in just ordinary work clothes. It wasn't khaki pants but they were khaki material, blue faded blue color, like a blue uniform made in khaki. Then he had on a brown shirt with a little silverlike stripe on it and he had on some kind of jacket, I didn't notice very close but I think it was a work jacket that almost matched the pants. Where'd the jacket come from David?

He, his shirt was open three buttons down here. He had on a T-shirt. You know, the shirt was open three buttons down there.

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that is not what I said, but that is the reason I didn't call one at the time and I asked him where he wanted to go. And he said, "500 North Beckley."

Well, I started up, I started to that address, and the police cars, the sirens was going, running crisscrossing everywhere, just a big uproar in that end of town and I said, "What the hell. I wonder what the hell is the uproar?"

And he never said anything. So I figured he was one of these people that don't like to talk so I never said any more to him.

But when I got pretty close to 500 block at Neches and North Beckley which is the 500 block, he said, "This will do fine," and I pulled over to the curb right there. He gave me a dollar bill, the trip was 95 cents. He gave me a dollar bill and didn't say anything, just got out and closed the door and walked around the front of the cab over to the other side of the street. Of course, traffic was moving through there and I put it in gear and moved on, that is the last I saw of him.

Mr. BALL. When you parked your car you parked on what street?

Mr. WHALEY. I wasn't parked, I was pulled to the curb on Neches and North Beckley.

Mr. BALL. Neches, corner of Neches and North Beckley?

Mr. WHALEY. Which is the 500 block.

Mr. WHALEY. I am trying to find Beckley, the green light changed from red to green on Beckley, right here is an intersection; Zangs Boulevard goes on up, and Beckley turns off.

Mr. BALL. Here is Neches right here.

Mr. WHALEY. Let me see where Neches is, is that right? Yes, that is it.

This is the intersection right there.

Mr. BALL. We put an "X" there.

Mr. WHALEY. That is where he got off.

Mr. BALL. That is where you dropped your passenger, is that right?

Mr. WHALEY. That is--as far as I can see that is Neches.

Mr. BALL. That is Neches, that is Beckley.

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is right, because that is the 500 block of North Beckley.

Mr. BALL. Now, we will mark the beginning of your trip on the large map as "Y", and where you dropped your passenger as an "X".

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. "Y" is the corner of Lamar and Jackson, and "X" is the corner of Neches and Beckley.

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL. O.K.

David - tried to find this marked map - any ideas cause those two streets do NOT cross... and as he says, he KNOWS the area...

The CHAIRMAN. The witness has been driving a taxicab in Dallas for 36 years.

Mr. WHALEY. Thirty-seven, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Thirty-seven.

Mr. WHALEY. You name an intersection in the city of Dallas and I will tell you what is on all four corners.

Mr. BALL. That would be--

Mr. WHALEY. Northwest corner.

Mr. BALL. Northwest corner of Neches and Beckley?

Mr. WHALEY. Northwest corner of Neches and Beckley.

ther is no such place David... and the 37 year Dallas veteran doesn't know this?

Now let's add that the first two pages of his testimony do not offer a date, while the last page does:

and out of nowhere Whaley drops Neches completely and is now at Neely...

The testimony of William W. Whaley was taken at 1:50 p.m., on April 8, 1964,

Mr. WHALEY. When I got to Beckley almost to the intersection of Beckley and Neely, he said, "This will do right here." and I pulled up to the curb

Mr. BELIN. Was that the 500 block of North Beckley?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; that was the 700 block.

Mr. BELIN. You let him out not at the 500 block but the 700 block of North Beckley?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Had you crossed Neely Street yet when you let him off?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. About how far north of Neely street did you let the man off?

Mr. WHALEY. About 20 feet.

Mr. BELIN. Then you went down to the police station to identify this man?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You saw a lineup?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what number he was in the lineup at all?

Mr. WHALEY. There was four of them, sir, and from the right to the left, he was No. 3.

Mr. BELIN. Starting from the right to the left, from his right or your right.

Mr. WHALEY. From your right, sir, which would have been his left. There were numbers above their heads, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Mr. Whaley, what number did you say the man was in the lineup?

Mr. WHALEY. No. 2 Always seems to be #2 - huh?

And now the kicker... David, do police normally have witnesses sign their statements before or after their conclusions and identifications?

Mr. BELIN. "Traveled Zangs to Beckley and turned left and traveled on Beckley until I reached the 500 block of North Beckley. When I got in the 500 block of North Beckley he said this will do and I stopped." Now is that what you told them on that day?

Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir; that is what I told them on that day.

Mr. BELIN. Well, was that the fact that you drove until you reached the 500 block, or not?

Mr. WHALEY. No, sir, I didn't drive until I reached the 500 block. I drove until I reached Beckley and Neely. If you would be in my place when they took me down there, when they had to force their way through the reporters to get me in the office, they wrote that up, and I signed it, because I told them that the man said he wanted to go to the 500 block of North Beckley.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Now in here it says, "The No. 3 man who I now know is Lee Harvey Oswald was the man who I carried from the Greyhound Bus Station* * *"

Was this the No. 3 or the No. 2 man?

Mr. WHALEY. I signed that statement before they carried me down to see the lineup. I signed this statement, and then they carried me down to the lineup at 2:30 in the afternoon.

Mr. BELIN. You signed this affidavit before you saw the lineup.

Mr. WHALEY. Before I left there, I signed this typewritten, because they had to get, a stenographer typed it up. I had to wait.

Mr. BELIN. But was this before or after you saw the lineup.

Mr. WHALEY. After she typed it up. It was after.

Mr. BELIN. It was after?

Mr. WHALEY. That is when I signed it, after.

Mr. BELIN. Now, when you signed it--what I want to know is, before you went down, had they already put on there a statement that the man you saw was the No. 8 man in the lineup?

Mr. WHALEY. I don't remember that. I don't remember whether it said three or two, or what.

Mr. BELIN. Did they have any statements on there before you went down to the lineup?

Mr. WHALEY. I never saw what they had in there. It was all written out by hand. The statement I saw, I think, was this one, and that could be writing. I might not even seen this one yet. I signed my name because they said that is what I said

Murphy Street no longer exists. It is now a two block crosswalk that no longer intersects Elm Street.

McWatters said he didn't remember picking anyone up at St. Paul & Elm. He remembers Roy Milton Jones who boarded the stop before.

The reason Henry Wade stated the conversation between the elderly woman and "Oswald" was in his list of evidence on the evening of Sunday 24th was because it actually happened. The hole in the evidence was it wasn't Oswald.

Thanks Lee...

and yes - I agree, the point is NOT whether those offering evidence are being truthful... but whether what/who they saw was authentic or not...

a doctor looking at a faked/altered xray will tell you what the Xray says... NOT whether the xray is authentic - we need Mantik for that...

Let's go down this path for a second please Lee - I'd like your take..

How does Oswald REALLY get from Baker/Truly to the theater... and where does he actually stop?

i.e. Roger Craig's (Ruth's) Station Wagon? - So he NEVER goes to his room or does he make the stop... hears the horn... and leaves VIA the police vehicle which takes him to the theater?

I think if we construct a timeline removing all current knowledge from the equation... we need to get our patsy to the theater ahead of the guy that ducks in, the guy Brewer sees....

So first we need to see if he REALLY went to his room...

In the same vein as Beldsoe... could Roberts here have been coached a bit?

This is once again CLASSIC Ball questioning and leading of the witnesses....

Mrs. ROBERTS. He didn't come home on Thursday night that week.

Mr. BALL. And Friday was the day the President was shot? Had you seen him at any time that Friday before the officers came up and knocked on your door?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No.

Mr. BALL. Hadn't he been home?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, let's see--that was the day.

Mr. BALL. That was on a Friday---

Mrs. ROBERTS. Wait a minute, let me think of it.

Mr. BALL. That's on a Friday.

Mrs. ROBERTS. I had better back up a minute---he came home that Friday in an unusual hurry.

Mr. BALL. And about what time was this?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was after President Kennedy had been shot and I had a friend that said, "Roberts, President Kennedy has been shot," and I said, "Oh, no." She said, "Turn on your television," and I said "What are you trying to do, pull my leg?" And she said, "Well, go turn it on." I went and turned it on and I was trying to clear it up---I could hear them talking but I couldn't get the picture and he come in and I just looked up and I said, "Oh, you are in a hurry." He never said a thing, not nothing. He went on to his room and stayed about 3 or 4 minutes.

Mr. BALL. As he came in, did you say anything else except, "You are in a hurry"?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No.

Mr. BALL. Did you say anything about the President being shot?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No.

I don't think there's any mystery as to who ran into the rooming house at 1026 N. Beckley around 1 p.m. Earlene Roberts' account--that it was Oswald, who ran in, and then ran out, zippering up a jacket he had donned--is in the accounts published in both Dallas newspapers, the New York Times, carried in all the media, and then documented in FBI reports based on interviews that took place promptly.

Why does it matter that, months later, when under oath, there's a minor glitch when, asked a question designed to permit her to tell her story, there's a brief moment of confusion.

I don't believe the passage you've isolated, from the transcript, in any way undercuts the account she provided multiple times, starting on the afternoon of 11/22/63.

DSL

In Hughes one can see hesitation right at the apogee of the curve, which is where the film cuts in after the edit. The car moves fluidly just after that. Note that the driver of the white pilot car isn't confident of the turn, either. Here's a better link to Hughes:

Is the Towner film cut, where Bob Harris point out that it is, to cover re-editing that disguises a slowing of the limo? Something happened at that point, as JFK's hand motion expresses confusion just before the film break, and after the break he suddenly straightens from a lean to his left. But nobody else is leaning. Here's Towner, with the lead-in intact:

It's worth examining the list of those who testified to the wide turn, including Roy Truly. Could the "wide turn" have been invented to explain away some other happening?

On the other hand - if Kennedy is flinching because a bullet struck the pavement there - who in that corner throng ever reported such a thing?

What puzzles me is how fast this limo always seems to be going, but I've heard it claimed it was only traveling 5mph on Elm. And this faster speed is seen in Towner and Hughes and the Z-film. Did the people who developed these films take out frames to speed the films up? How was President Kennedy shot so accurately going that fast? The limo had to stop and not just at the corner. But I think you're right about the wide turn. It was probably done on purpose right there near the Dal-Tex building. And that's why The Cuban was giving a signal to Greer. It wasn't the peace sign or a the sign of victory. An important researcher told me it meant Attempt 2. And I believe that.

Kathy C

Hi Kathy

According the the survey data... the limo goes from 3.74 to 17.1 to 18.7 to 12.06 to 28.69 to 11.12 mph between z168 and z222 and varying intervals... the most interesting being the 28.69mph from z207 to z208...

In one frame they say the limo moved 2.3 feet... yet at 206 and 209 the limo is moving at 12 and 11 mph... CANT BE.

From 161-166, 5 frames, the limo moved .9 feet - 2.24mph...

yet from 166-185, 19 frames and 19.2 feet (based on the surveys) equates to 12.6 mph

The more we look at the ACTUAL EVIDENCE OFFERED about the speed - the more we see LARGE fluctuations in this speed which is both not consistent with their training nor with what we see on the film...

Mr. SPECTER. Did you endeavor to maintain a constant speed in the operation of the President's car so as to avoid contact with this close gap between the President's car and the President's follow-up automobile?

Mr. GREER. Yes, sir. We tried to drive at a very steady speed. We are used to driving with each other, and we almost can tell each other's thoughts what we do, because of the training we have had, and we work so long together. We drive at a steady pace of speed, so that we give each other enough ample time to stop or move in close

As you elude to Kathy... the 18.3 fps - if off by 20% - could account for the additional frames... or it really was 18.3 and frames were removed - the JUMP at z135 to the limo is, to me, a tell tale sign.

Reading Zaps testimony... I guess we're just supposed to take the word of Mr Liebeler - huh? Like a little Specter here...

"Are copies of your film that we say are copies of your film, really copies of your film?

Mr. LIEBELER - Yes, specifically, I first call your attention to No. 185. This is No. 185 on the back of it and will you look at the whole book and identify it if you can and tell us that those are the pictures that--that those appear to be the pictures or copies of the pictures that you took from your motion picture camera?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, I would say this, they look like--if they were taken from the film I had--these are the ones. I mean, I don't know how to express myself.

Mr. LIEBELER - Well, they were.

and sure seems to me that Zap never stopped filming and WANTED to catch the motorcade turn onto Elm...

Mr. LIEBELER - As you stood there on this abutment with your camera, the motorcade came down Houston Street and turned left on Elm Street, did it not?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's right.

Mr. LIEBELER - And it proceeded then down Elm Street toward the triple underpass; is that correct?

Mr. ZAPRUDER - That's correct. I started shooting--when the motorcade started coming in, I believe I started and wanted to get it coming in from Houston Street.

This is starting to get VERY interesting...

DJ

The Hughes pause may give away the beginning of the slowing but not the entire thing as you elude to... Towner suggests no slowing or drastic right-to-left recovery....

Could be I'm just not seeing Twoner correctly and that Truly overstates the turn... Need to find other testimony about the turn....

I was under the impression a number of people testified to seeing dust kick up from a bullet hitting the street BEHIND the limo just after the turn....

Barbara something... I will look but I am SURE there are accounts of that shot...

and you're right... if only Truly mentions it I'd find that suspect....

Mr. SPECTER. How many lanes of travel were there on Elm Street?

Mr. GREER. It was either three or four lanes wide. I have forgotten.

Mr. SPECTER. In what portion of the street were you traveling?

Mr. GREER. I was right in the center of the street.

Does this look like Kellerman has something to say about the turn, but doesn't?

Mr. SPECTER. Do you know how far behind you the President's followup car was as you turned right onto Houston from Main Street?

Mr. KELLERMAN. No; I don't, but I am positive it was right on our rear wheels.

Mr. SPECTER. All right.

Now, as you turned left off Houston onto Elm, what is your best estimate of the speed of the President's automobile at that time?

Mr. KELLERMAN. As we turned onto Elm Street and the crowd, we were through the section of Dallas; we might have had--the driver picked it up because we were all through. Purely a guess, we could have been going at the most 25.

Mr. SPECTER. What would your estimate, your minimum estimate, of the speed be?

Mr. KELLERMAN. Fifteen.

Repeatedly we hear 12-15 mph when we both know the turn at Elm/Houston could NOT be taken at 15 mph....

According to the info Purvis found regarding the Plat Surveys and distances... the WCR claims that from z168-z171 they were traveling at 3.74mph yet from 171-185, 17.1mph...

Are we going to believe that they SLOWED from 12-15mph down to 3mph AFTER the 120 degree turn? onlt to immediately speed up?

Tom's data is pretty compelling in that we have distances, # of frames and "supposedly" an 18.3fps rate...

So either Truly is exaggerating a bit... or something is fishy with the films and locations related to the turn and frames 207-208 which we can talk about in a different thread...

dup -

Thumb, left butt cheek and all?

Cheers Duncan

DJ

Exactly... turn your hand so your thumb tucks under your left butt cheek...

Your thumb would be pointing to about 2:00 if 12:00 was straight ahead... landsdale's is at about 3:00...

and this after swinging his arms as he walks....

DJ

You can see a slight slowing of the limo in the Hughes film...but suspiciously, not the moment of the limo's approach to the turn.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jfk+hughes+film+&view=detail&mid=08DA283ED0DC46DF3C2408DA283ED0DC46DF3C24&first=0&FORM=LKVR4

Thanks David...

But that WIDE turn over by the curb does not seem to be in any of the films....

and then getting from that curb to the limo's position in 135 seems a bit of a stretch.... especially if the SS follow up car and other cars followed... The SS car is right behind the limo at 135...

Both cars made this wide turn?

DJ

Cmon now Duncan... REALLY?

Put your left hand at your side... now look down...

Left Thumb at the front, fingers extend back toward the rear

Ring finger even has a ring on it in the photo

Now tak a photo from the left rear... nothing out of the ordinary here buddy...

the thumb is farthest from the camera, not closest as you are proposing... men in 1963 did NOT wear rings on their index fingers as well

DJ

Mr. TRULY. I assume that is the underpass that you have marked Parkway.

Mr. BELIN. The street leading to the expressway, that diagonal street?

Mr. TRULY. That is right.

And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.

Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?

Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.

If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.

Will do a search and see about other info related to this turn and who describes it... yet there is something very fishy about Towner and the Zfilm if this WIDE turn and almost stop occurred... while I took a few frames out of the Towner gif... we all know the film is smooth other than the break... and does NOT appear as if the limo slows, turns radically left or any of it...

Is there ANY evidence for this turn beyond testimony?

DJ

Murphy Street no longer exists. It is now a two block crosswalk that no longer intersects Elm Street.

McWatters said he didn't remember picking anyone up at St. Paul & Elm. He remembers Roy Milton Jones who boarded the stop before.

The reason Henry Wade stated the conversation between the elderly woman and "Oswald" was in his list of evidence on the evening of Sunday 24th was because it actually happened. The hole in the evidence was it wasn't Oswald.

Thanks Lee...

and yes - I agree, the point is NOT whether those offering evidence are being truthful... but whether what/who they saw was authentic or not...

a doctor looking at a faked/altered xray will tell you what the Xray says... NOT whether the xray is authentic - we need Mantik for that...

Let's go down this path for a second please Lee - I'd like your take..

How does Oswald REALLY get from Baker/Truly to the theater... and where does he actually stop?

i.e. Roger Craig's (Ruth's) Station Wagon? - So he NEVER goes to his room or does he make the stop... hears the horn... and leaves VIA the police vehicle which takes him to the theater?

I think if we construct a timeline removing all current knowledge from the equation... we need to get our patsy to the theater ahead of the guy that ducks in, the guy Brewer sees....

So first we need to see if he REALLY went to his room...

In the same vein as Beldsoe... could Roberts here have been coached a bit?

This is once again CLASSIC Ball questioning and leading of the witnesses....

Mrs. ROBERTS. He didn't come home on Thursday night that week.

Mr. BALL. And Friday was the day the President was shot? Had you seen him at any time that Friday before the officers came up and knocked on your door?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No.

Mr. BALL. Hadn't he been home?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, let's see--that was the day.

Mr. BALL. That was on a Friday---

Mrs. ROBERTS. Wait a minute, let me think of it.

Mr. BALL. That's on a Friday.

Mrs. ROBERTS. I had better back up a minute---he came home that Friday in an unusual hurry.

Mr. BALL. And about what time was this?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was after President Kennedy had been shot and I had a friend that said, "Roberts, President Kennedy has been shot," and I said, "Oh, no." She said, "Turn on your television," and I said "What are you trying to do, pull my leg?" And she said, "Well, go turn it on." I went and turned it on and I was trying to clear it up---I could hear them talking but I couldn't get the picture and he come in and I just looked up and I said, "Oh, you are in a hurry." He never said a thing, not nothing. He went on to his room and stayed about 3 or 4 minutes.

Mr. BALL. As he came in, did you say anything else except, "You are in a hurry"?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No.

Mr. BALL. Did you say anything about the President being shot?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No.