On 9/11/2020 at 9:56 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Richard, I have to say I don't think DJ's being snarky, he's being factual.  He's been investigating the subject several years, you really should read his articles at https://kennedysandking.com/.  If you've not.  They are eye opening, if your open minded to the Truth. 

Thanks Ron.

10 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Not disagreeing with you here, only asking a question: in explanation for why the killer of Tippit would pull out empty shell casings and throw them down while running away, could that not be for the purpose of rapidly reloading--while running--in order to be able to have ability to use the pistol lethally again quickly if necessary?  

This is supposedly the same guy who picks up all the Carcano shells from the Shooting range each and every time...

what puzzles me are the different makes of bullets... I mean if this is a setup then why confuse the issue?  1 box of ammo does the job... as opposed to a dozen loose bullets of different make.

Any thoughts on that inconsistency?

1 minute ago, Richard Booth said:

Another thing that lends to this notion is that while Oswald was still alive he was never accused to attempting to murder someone inside the Texas theater. 

I believe that if you tried to fire a pistol at a police officer in front of a bunch of other cops you'd catch attempted murder charges immediately.

That this was NEVER done while Oswald was alive and this story didn't come about until he was no longer around to contest it is highly suspect to me

Hadn't even considered that Richard... great point.  {applause}  

Now that you mention it, McD and the others seem pretty casual after supposedly having a murder suspect with a gun try to shoot one of them...

Amazing the things that can be overlooked.... that I can overlook

thanks for this Richard...

DJ

4 minutes ago, Chris Barnard said:

I read The creature from Jekyll Island, that was a transfer of power of epic proportions.  
 

I not so long ago read Ron Chernow’s “Alexander Hamilton, what a guy he was, one of the great Americans for sure but, with what a flaw he had that was present all through his life, if he was slighted, in any way shape or form, he could not leave it alone. It was so tragic first his son dying in a duel and them him, but, that I didn’t connect the two reading the book, a duel being such an uncertain outcome but, i see what transpired from that wiki link you posted. 
 

I haven’t read how Truman’s creation of the CIA was orchestrated or manipulated but, what a transferal or creation of power that was, pandoras box is forever open. 

You might enjoy "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" which is where I got my exposure to that time period.....  it's a free pdf online and a quick read... amazing stuff.

A theory I've had for a while is that the Military helped to create the CIA to act as a buffer between Military intelligence (ONI and MID - the oldest of US intel agencies) and what the public saw.   The CIA did their stonewalling while the Military proceeded with their intel activities virtually untouched...  Hoover had the SIS doing the Eastern Hemisphere and was pitching to take over all foreign intel work... but FDR said no and the Truman went his own way - with guidance of course...

Look at the first 4 Directors....  Navy, AF, Navy, Army..... then Allen Dulles.    So maybe I see it more as an added layer of insulation for Military Intelligence...

Interesting about Hamilton, didn't know that about him.

And I don't know if you'd call it a coup from the inside but didn't Lincoln have the Treasury print money rather than borrow from the "banks" of the time...??  Yes, here it is.... a kind of a coup in that without that change the North might have had a lot more trouble....    History is great - Truth stranger than fiction

Take care Chris
DJ

During the Civil War (1861-1865), President Lincoln needed money to finance the War from the North. The Bankers were going to charge him 24% to 36% interest. Lincoln was horrified and went away greatly distressed, for he was a man of principle and would not think of plunging his beloved country into a debt that the country would find impossible to pay back.

Eventually President Lincoln was advised to get Congress to pass a law authorizing the printing of full legal tender Treasury notes to pay for the War effort. Lincoln recognized the great benefits of this issue. At one point he wrote:

“... (we) gave the people of this Republic the greatest blessing they have ever had – their own paper money to pay their own debts...”

2 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

So, perhaps instead of saying "show me this" or "produce evidence" on something I am far from certain about, lay out your reasons why you believe there wasn't a pistol and I'll be happy to look at that. 

I honestly thought I had done that Richard.  In posts on this thread and articles posted/linked at K&K. 

Here is mine again with John's as well.
http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Pistol.html  is a short piece by Armstrong, a mentor and friend who has spent countless hours discussing these topics
https://kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/JosephsPistol.pdf  this is mine and takes things a bit further...

Richard,

It is not my intention to argue with you... trying to determine if there is something I was not aware of that led you to conclude he had a pistol on him when he entered the theater.

DPD statements saying he did are, IMO, not enough.  Their credibility is dodgy at best with regards to items that incriminate Oswald - I'd think we agree on that. 

You see I do know about the pistol...  I do know what happened in Westbrook's office and did trace the travels of 2 pistols that day... and I agree with you on most of the points related to the Tippit murder and the staged reloading of the pistol in order to leave evidence...

We agree it was not Oswald killing Tippit.  So there would be little reason to go against all the evidence showing he never got a pistol, to put one in his hands now as he enters the theater.

I am saying that the DPD planted "A" pistol on the man that surfaces during this scuffle which becomes "THE" pistol back at DPD in Westbrook's office.  Everybody agrees on the "click" (like Baker claiming he climbed the stairs with Truly... ) so it must have happened.

I am also saying that WESTBROOK planted a wallet at the Tippit crime scene to add the name HIDELL to the evidence which connects Oswald to the rifle and pistol orders...  

I am saying there is no evidence that Oswald had a pistol at any point in time after his return in June 1962.
(Note: June 1962 is the month 700 Carcano FC rifles including 2766 arrive at Century Arms / Empire Wholesale and is the month on FELDSOTT's affidavit as to when that rifle was sold to Klein's - the connections are pervasive)

On a previous post I discuss the Postcard that never existed, a shipment that never happened and the existence of a pistol that isn't here, there or anywhere to be found prior to 11/22.

So that is why I see it highly unlikely that Oswald entered the Texas Theater with any pistol...

It has even been postulated that the pistol is given to the DPD in the balcony of the theater (where the DPD was first directed and where a number of reports still place the arrest).. and then becomes part of the main floor scuffle...  a pistol that supposedly just fired off 4 rounds killing a man - that now doesn't work.  How convenient for the DPD is that?

And finally the large number of loose bullets....  he shoots 4 times, reloads with 4-6 shells and still has 5 more shells in his pants pocket at the DPD.... he's walking around with 9 to 11 live shells and a pistol with 4-6 shells...  Another thing to find "odd" considering he was searched 2 or 3 times before these bullets were found.... oh and the magic bus transfer but that's another article for another day....

Mr. BELIN. How many did you find?
Mr. HILL. There were six in the chambers of the gun

No offense intended at all Richard.... I'm sorry it came off that way.  I learn new things about old subjects all the time... the main reason I come here...  it's just that some things taken for granted, like honest police reports, can't be in this case...  the pistol is no different than the paper bag or the rifle or the tramps...  all props, at least as I see it.

Take care
DJ

13 hours ago, Richard Booth said:

"f you could help me understand what non-DPD evidence suggests to you he had a pistol of that type EVER in his possession, I sure would appreciate it."

This is argumentative and stupid. There isn't any "non-DPD evidence" which I've already said.

I "sure would appreciate" you not being a snarky xxxxx.

 

Richard...  sorry if it came across as "snarky" -

If the only evidence comes from the DPD - and the pistol could not possibly have come to Oswald via REA...

Why do you accept he entered the theater with it on him?

=======

I am sincerely asking as I know the provenance of that pistol... it came from SEAPORT who got if from Century International Arms (CIA)/Empire Wholesale both owned at the time by William Sucher of Canada.

Sucher had also received in June 1962 a rifle with serial No. "2766". All 700 rifles were listed without a leading letter, and there were 5 more rifles in his shipment that had the same serial "numbers" as Klein's 100 rifle order.

Anyway, from what I can tell no one ever got an REA postcard, and there's no record of anyone ever picking up that pistol.   and finally, bottom image, the COD charges were never paid to REA who I do believe was in the business to charge for shipping... not ship things free...

So once again without the assumptions and attitude - when he walked into the Theater, what proves to you he had a weapon?  Fritz saying he says he did?     "y'know, like how boys do"....

Or maybe look into explaining why every shell casing in evidence looks as if they were recently pulled from a police belt that holds bullets... and the pistol itself is the exact same as used by the DPD.... 

The conspiracy to implicate Oswald extends to every item of evidence, if it didn't implicate, it wasn't important.

and then there's that nasty BALCONY business....   

I'm simply looking for the sources that lead you to your conclusion....  when the preponderance of Authentic evidence shows Oswald and that pistol never came in contact.... 

DJ

ps...  we have no records from REA showing a deposit, no postcard like those shown below, and nothing to document the journey it needs to take to wind up - supposedly - at 1026 Beckley...

Mr. JENNER - You didn't see any kind of weapon?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Firearm, rifle, pistol, or otherwise?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I saw nothing of that nature.
Mr. JENNER - Did you drive them to your home?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Were the materials and things in your station wagon unpacked and placed in your home?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; immediately.
Mr. JENNER - Did you see that being done, were you present?
Mrs. PAINE - I helped do it; yes.
Mr. JENNER - Did you see any weapon on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Whether a rifle, pistol or--
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - Or any covering, any package, that looked as though it might have a weapon, pistol, or firearm?
Mrs. PAINE - No.

For reference here is that Film Map done by Horne....

Still amazes me how anyone can say a film with 6 splices and too many feet is not "altered"

Going thru FONZI's HSCA notes and even he is starting to seriously wonder:

I believe the person being referred to as stating the Cubans did not think it was our Oswald visiting in Mexico... is LITAMIL-9...  bottom image.

He also can't understand how the FBI could have heard tapes of Oswald when the CIA insists the tapes were destroyed... the photo is Mystery Man...
So of course Hoover says there's a 2nd man down there... even though his agents spent all of November looking for any trace of Oswald being in Mexico... no luck.

DJ

27 minutes ago, John Iacoletti said:

And then only McDonald's.  Everything else is hearsay.

I wouldn't go that far...  I think the white cap is McDonald yet there were plenty of other DPD on the scene...

I thought I had read an account or two which said the pistol attributed to Oswald appears from somewhere else... I'll go check the reports...

I'd suggest reading the Arrest reports of the men listed in this photo... 

DJ

30 minutes ago, John Iacoletti said:

Well supposedly this clip had a tendency to get jammed in the rifle.

Mr. Edgar. The cartridge clip was removed from CE-139 by Lieutenant Day of the Dallas Police Department on November 22, 1963 at the crime laboratory for the police department. Shouldn't a clip automatically fall out once the last cartridge has fed into the chamber?

Mr. Lutz. This rifle is designed to incorporate that feature so that the last cartridge is stripped out of the clip, then that allows the clip itself to fall or to drop from the opening that you see in the bottom of the box magazine. However, in many cases, and in this particular case, where we functioned the rifle, fed cartridges through it, we found this clip to stay in the rifle after the last round had been stripped and fed into the chamber. Because the lips or the edges of the clip many times will open up, they will spring against the walls on the inside of the box magazine and it will hang up in that area, and even though it is supposed to drop out, many times it will hang up in the box area.

Welcome to the forum John....   seems you've been here enough to chime in... hope you're enjoying your stay here....

What gets me about the whole jam thing.... far right image and others showed nothing protruding from the bottom and as you can see, the bolt is opened already

The other 2 images show that protrusion...  Below that is an overlay I just did showing the diagram of the clip system and a better image of the clip area of the rifle...

Sure looks like it's in the right place.... but when does it go from not being there - as in this image

to being there?

15 minutes ago, Richard Booth said:

I'm saying he definitely had a pistol because he was arrested carrying that pistol, he had it on him. Just that afternoon. That's about all I know about the pistol.

And I am, without sarcasm stating there is no definitive way to show he had a pistol on him when entering that theater.  The subsequent finding of a holster supposedly hanging on a doorknob is absurd, and as many have shown, our Oswald didn't actually live at Beckley (some great thread here on that)

The only reports placing a gun in his possession are those of the DPD, of course.   Yet the pistol in evidence as well as the shells and extra ammo are all standard issue for police forces... this was no ordinary pistol with ordinary ammo....  

What we do know is at some point Carroll gives a pistol to Hill...  all of the identification markings for that pistol are engraved AFTER they all meet in WESTBROOK's office....

At the linked article in a previous post I trace the two different paths of the "pistol"....  After all I've read and seen with DPD/FBI reports that are simply lies, there is no reason they would not report "Oswald with a pistol trying to kill a cop"....

If you could help me understand what non-DPD evidence suggests to you he had a pistol of that type EVER in his possession, I sure would appreciate it.

(I mean you got Bentley claiming he sees Oswald pull the pistol just as he entered the theater and 3-6 men are fighting with Oswald - Bentley had been in the BALCONY where most every DPD report places the location of the suspect - "as they were told"  "we heard he was in the balcony".... etc.

We've all seen STRINGFELLOW's report about the suspect being captured in the Balcony.....  along with the boy taken out the back....

So, no... I do not believe the reports he had a pistol on him at any time.

On 9/6/2020 at 11:51 AM, Chris Barnard said:

Was that the first coup d’etat in the USA? 

IDK... we might consider what Colonel House did to Woodrow Wilson via the Wall Street/Banking Syndicate of the Rothschilds to get the Rederal Reserve Act of 1913 passed giving a private entity the forever contract to regulate our money supply and charge us trillions in the process...

Kinda depends on how you define coup d'etat....   while so many include "violent overthrow" the "change in government" I believe is the essence of a coup... the change in where the power resides...

With the Fed Res Act of 1917....  The US becomes part of the world-wide Rothschilds banking empire....  one of the last few hold outs as our history had warned us over and over to stay away from Central Banks...  (side note: Aaron Burr kills Hamilton over whose banking interests would prevail and become the first attempt at a national bank....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Company  

“This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized....the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill.”

― Charles A. Lindbergh Sr.,

And before that, VP Johnson and Sec of State Seward among others were in on the killing of Lincoln conspiracy....

Before that, I wouldn't doubt it...

3 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

I call this the Muchmore Patch.

Great image... can you please post 1-2 frames before and after?

On 9/7/2020 at 6:59 PM, Richard Booth said:

How do we reconcile the notion that he didn't have the rifle, but he definitely did have the pistol? 

Definitely?

Other than that afternoon, can you name one other time any pistol is connected to Oswald? or how that pistol gets from Magazine Street to Irving then to Beckley... let alone from SEAPORT to REA for pick-up.

All I can think of are the Backyard Photos which I feel helps my case more than hurts it...

1 minute ago, Richard Booth said:

The biggest issue to me is how these idiots didn't load an entire 6 round clip into the MC and leave it on the 6th floor with the clip inside and two rounds left.

With tongue in cheek Richard (and from my 1st ever article) Oswald needs to retrieve the bag with a disassembled rifle, bullets and clip rattling around; get to the 6th floor;  assemble the rifle with a dime(?), hope the sight is still aligned, load in a partially filled clip and be at that window by a time he THINKS the motorcade would come by...
12:10-12:20 for a 12:30 luncheon.

The only people on the 6th floor at this time - we know for sure - were Williams, a man seen in a jacket and glasses, and the person caught in Dillard at the far WEST end of the 6th floor....

The props dropped - IMO - were the props needed....   I've said it before - There is no way to underestimate the Hubris of Authority at the time.  Just look how quickly the info from the DPD press conference was squashed by the FBI...

Take care and always good chatting with you
DJ

On 9/7/2020 at 6:59 PM, Richard Booth said:

Obviously the "script"

On 9/7/2020 at 5:36 PM, Jeff Royle said:

What's your take on the pistol

You've hit upon topics near and dear to my heart... and years of work.   https://kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/JosephsPistol.pdf   
You'll be amazed at the 2 different and provable paths that pistol took...  

As to the rifle....  thanks Richard, John's work set the foundation as well as a good part of that structure... we just took it a little further....

On 9/7/2020 at 6:59 PM, Richard Booth said:

I am persuaded by John Armstrong's work on the rifle, and David Josephs' postings here about that rifle, which show that there is a problem: Oswald had a 40 inch MC rifle with a scope on it but Kleins only sold 36" rifles with scopes. So, what gives?

We must remember that originally the rifle was a 7.65mm Mauser-type    (Roger Craig said it was stamped on the top as shown below - top left)
other stamp ID's included 7.35 and the 6.5 mm....  there is only 1 photo of what is said to be CE-137's caliber stamp, and it appears to have a "3" not "5"

the story I had heard was that a Mauser uses a Stripper clip which does not go into the rifle when loading.. a missing clip would make the Carcano hand-loaded or give the Mauser even more credibility .... so a clip was invented/found for the Carcano which must have used one to shoot that quickly.  Of note:  SA ODUM of the FBI is the man who drives DAY back to his office with the rifle, shells, and "clip"

Day's note seems to add the clip as an after thought and the CLIP would have fallen out when that bolt was opened..

Doesn't look like 6.5 to moi...

37 minutes ago, Richard Price said:

Not to get this off topic, I just wanted to make a quick observation based on years of looking at the various films and video of the JFKA.  The attached Altgen's 6 photo has always looked like a manipulated photo (particularly in the red box drawn in below).  Too many anomalies in an otherwise professional quality photograph.  Have you ever analyzed this area?

One of the things that always bothered me about that area was how JFK was blocked by the mirror making him look very distorted so I put him back in:  if it helps your thought process.  Below that is a reconstruction of where McHugh SHOULD have been sitting....  the windshield hole takes on a whole new perspective, no?

30 minutes ago, David Butler said:

The restoration of the Marie Muchmore film is from the National Geographic's JFK The Lost Bullet I believe

yet she claims not to have taken images of the assassination...

How dat?

On 9/2/2020 at 11:31 PM, Richard Booth said:

What is your best argument for why these photos are fake? 

A "ghost" image of the BYP 133-C was found in DPD records...

Taking the 1978 discovered 133-C and pasting him back in... uh, doesn't work.

Additionally, I think we've all shown that Oswald never had a rifle in the states....  kinda makes the BYP moot by definition.  I did a 4 part series on the rifle/pistol with 1 piece on the BYPs...  the rest of the articles are also on K&K.

Hope they shed some light
DJ

https://kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/JosephsBYP.pdf 

23 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Moving up Elm St.

Chris... once again great stuff... well done...

A question comment....  Marie Muchmore insists she did not take any film of the shooting itself...

The sync you did is wonderful....  any thoughts then where this amazingly clear portion of the Muchmore film comes from... as the rest of the film simply doesn't match...  Even these 2 prints from that one frame doesn't seem possible it's the same original film....??

Thanks

18 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

Does anyone have a link to Wesley Buell Frazier's HSCA testimony? Thanks--

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm   (see excerpts below image)

The magic self-supporting paper bag...   Gary Mack sent me a transcript of Montgomery here claiming there was a curtain rod "or something" holding up the bag....

Mr. BALL. Where was the paper sack?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Let's see--the paper sack--I don't recall for sure if it was on the floor or on the box, but I know it was just there----one of those pictures might show exactly where it was.
Mr. BALL. I don't have a picture of the paper sack.

Mr. BALL. The larger one you mentioned that was in position 2.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You picked it up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Wait just a minute no; I didn't pick it up. I believe Mr. Studebaker did. We left it laying right there so they could check it for prints.

Mr. BALL. Did you question any witnesses that day?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Let's see----that particular day--no, sir; I don't believe I talked to a witness that day.  (DJ !! - so what's he doing there besides carrying the paper bag that he never picked up?   Didn't they wind up making a few extra bags that day and in subsequent days? Pat Speer does a great job with the bag info fwiw)

Mr. BALL - What did the package look like?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just roughly about two feet long.
Mr. BALL - It was, what part of the back seat was it in?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was in his side over on his side in the far back.
Mr. BALL - How much of that back seat, how much space did it take up?
Mr. FRAZIER - I would say roughly around 2 feet of the seat.
Mr. BALL - From the side of the seat over to the center, is that the way you would measure it?
Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches.
Mr. BALL - How wide was the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I would say the package was about that wide.
Mr. BALL - How wide would you say that would be?
Mr. FRAZIER - Oh, say, around 5 inches, something like that. 5, 6 inches or there. I don't--
Mr. BALL - The paper, was the color of the paper, that you would get in a grocery store, is that it, a bag in a grocery store?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. You have seen, not a real light color but you know normally, the normal color about the same color, you have seen these kinds of heavy duty bags you know like you obtain from the grocery store, something like that, about the same color of that, paper sack you get there.

Mrs. RANDLE. About this.
Mr. BALL. Is that about right? That is 28 1/2 inches.
Mrs. RANDLE. I measured 27 last time.
Mr. BALL. You measured 27 once before?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.

Ok... so when the HSCA interviews AZCUE his recollection differs from the CIA story....  what a surprise, right?

Again, the CIA LIENVOY kept tabs on a large number of telephone numbers... with the machinery "never missing a day" per the report on the man who cares for the equipment.   

AZCUE also says they close at 2 pm during the week...  the Friday 9/27 calls all occur after 4 pm and on Saturday....  what a crock.

Finally - like DURAN.... AZCUE was not shown the application photo until the HSCA...

Thanks again to Bart's scanning Malcolm's collection....

We learn that AZCUE called the Russian Consulate about Oswald on Sept 28th....  I was unaware of this...

Like Oswald's calls, we should have tape and/or at least a transcript of this call as well....  (we have one of DORTICOS/ARMAS related to Oswald/Duran)

Yet the passage from the report says otherwise:   

They don't know the specific content yet they know with whom he speaks and that there would be a 4 month delay....  this is part of what we understand to be the CIA chronology for Oswald in Mexico....

We also know that DURAN tells us the man calling himself OSWALD did not return after Friday.... despite the 9/28 transcripts of him and Duran.

Seems to me this describes a call that was never made...  but I'll go do some digging....

9 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:

David this is a very interesting document find you bring out, and certainly adds weight to the plausibility that the Mexico City Soviet "Oswald" embassy phone calls could have been voice impersonated, adding to the point already noted of the language issue. Do you have a link or reference to this document? Any idea what the context was of it, or if the "fabricat[ion] on tape phoney conversation of Cuban ambassador for insertion Lienvoy mechanism" was carried out?

 

After DURAN's arrest in 1963 there was a call 11/26/63 which is transcribed by the CIA.... between President Dorticos in Cuba and Amb Armas here's page 1.... 

Their concern had to do with money being given to Oswald by Duran... (for context, Duran was believed by many a CIA asset - vague but close enough to help)

The 1962 memo and discussion I had not followed up upon... just proved to me that 22 months before, the idea of tape fabrication within the LIENVOY program sounds lilke standard fare....

FWIW.

oh... I usually name my files to help lead me back to the sources but did not on the 1962 one meaning I probably got it from someone as a one pager or found it in a larger unmarked pdf of reports.    but I'll keep sniffing... unless one of our resident experts can lead the way...  sorry I couldn't be more helpful with this one

DJ

8 hours ago, John Butler said:

CE875 is a reconstruction based on the Zapruder film?  What was it based on?  And, was done by the FBI?  What actual photo material did they use to make their determinations?  CE875 looks like a reconstruction based upon he assumptions of the makers.  How accurate is it?  This has been debated before I would assume several times?

https://kennedysandking.com/images/pdf/JosephsFBIZ313.pdf
 

Did this a while back, yet some is out of date now... but I do look into where the info comes from....

Enjoy...  then read the Math Rules thread.

On 8/27/2020 at 10:37 AM, John Butler said:

David,

Is there a document or documents somewhere that list the various stations such as position A and any others such as station 7 or position 7 or whatever they are numbered.  

John,    the Exh you want is CE875 which photos a vehicle with the rear bumper over these station callouts...  but that original doc or even a copy is not in the records but from the personal records of Robert West via Tom Purvis.   At least that's how i remember it.

I don't think Robert West's plat was entered into evidence during the WC... the 20:1 scale version.  What they don't specifically mention is that each "station" is 25 feet from the previous... 0+00, 0+25....4+75, 5+00, etc.... they also do not mention this as being the path of the limo as described to WEST with these stations related to the REAR BUMPER (meaning the front bumper is almost 22 feet forward and JFK about 7 feet forward the rear bumper.

The only "Station" with a letter is the approximation as to where the limo turned at "C".... but then they add in measurements to POSITION A which in itself is a contradiction...   Why he says "would have turned" when you have a variety of images and photos showing exactly where they turned.... is a bit strange.

The station numbers should not be confused with the Elevation markers.... which are shown every 9.15 feet.  2 lines = 18.3 feet = 1 foot vertical from in Elm

So 2+75 is in line with Position A....  you can also see the "428" and "429" bracketing 2+75 and is at a point which looks like 428.75' above sea level
the math should work like this.  25 feet from 2+75 = 3+00...  25/18.3 = 1.37 vertical feet.   428.75 - 1.37 = 427.38... above the white writing "T-160" and under the black line representing the length of the limo (which is following the RED path high and to the right versus the green path which Shaneyfelt created and immortalized in CE884)
is the 3+00. 

The "+" is supposed to represent the rear bumper yet we can see this to be above the 427.5 line in the street as opposed to 427.38 (below the line) using the calcs.

The plats and diagrams the WCR used were crap... CE585 for example.   Here are some things Chris helped me understand...  the different elevations and locations on the limo for measurements PLUS the calc needed to get to the top of JFK's head....

CE878 and 879 show what was done to the Gauthier FBI model with strings and the shot down by the steps.... SOP FBI.

I was able to reduce the WEST plat down to a reasonable size for you to work with....  I'll leave it up here for download until a need more image space.... (bottom image)

Hope this helps
DJ