David Josephs

100% agreement... (In fact the MATH RULES thread here does a great job in ripping it apart) I happen to speculate the film was taken at 48fps and cut to the number of frames needed to match the slope of ELM... 18.3 frames per sec and 18.3 feet per vertical 1' drop...12.47mph... which is why, other than the obvious breaks and splices the limo looks like it smoothly moves thru Elm street... And I find the ensuing CYA much more interesting than whodunnit.... like why Hoover covered for CIA in Mexico and how THAT rifle gets to where it was... FNG... guess that makes me FOG...

Not sure what FNG is... but it is sure nice having a weapons expert with hands-on experience... feet and all. I get PNG, Persona non Gratis... FNG? Anyway, didn't you mention that one of the worst spots to pick as a Sniper (for shooting down Elm instead of Houston) was that SE window... or anywhere in that building for that matter. Have you given much consideration to Tosh's SE knoll shot(s)?

So here is the work in progress in both formats... Both searchable... Corrections and additions are most welcome...

While diversion rifles are making Loud noises... this thing would have never been heard... FWIW

I believe that says ALBERTO DALMAN/DALMASS and OSCAR D... at 2927 " which I take to mean Harlandale Maybe the name of his Harlandale informants?

I'll go ahead and post it here in Excel form... if people want a pdf version just, ask. Not everyone has/uses Excel... we all have acrobat reader... I followed on John's lead by going to the respective school districts online and finding the records they kept... I found the TARRANT county pupil population listed by school district.... that would be very telling and boy was it: Other telling info comes from John Pic... AND Robert.... These are all 1946 dates... There is no listing of a LEE OSWALD attending school in the MASTER TARRANT County books for 1945 thru 1955 '47-'48 shows NANCY LEE and HARVEY OSWALD ... in Sept 1947 Marge was still married to Ekdahl Mr. JENNER - He entered in September 19, 1946, and continued to January 23, 1947, old Covington Grammar School In '48-'49 NANCY LEE with a birth date 1 day after Lee, with Harvey using the 7-9-39 bdate supposedly to get into 1st grade, yet in 1947 he would artificially be 9 years old and in 3rd grade not 1st. Doesn't this suggest it was HARVEY at San Saba enrolled in BENBROOK? And no... no one has the first clue as to who NANCY LEE was/is. btw - in '48-'49 ROBERT entered 9th grade at Stripling Jr High YET, there is no ROBERT listed until 1949-50. FWIW - the only year the TARRANT BOOKS do not offer is 1946-1947... there is a 1944-46 book and then a 1947-48... Could that be the long arm of the FBI protecting itself ala Stripling?? '49-'50 HARVEY has his birth day back... almost '50-'51 '51-'52... This shows that in Jan 1947 when Lee was 7 in October was supposedly let into school with the July bdate... He's SUPPOSED to be at the BENBROOK School, in Tarrant county... 9-9-47 would be the start of 2nd Grade, never attending a full year of 1st. yet promoted to 2nd grade none the less Address on enrollment card is "Worth Hotel" AND 7408 Ewing which is not bought until 1948. MO lists LEE's Bday as July 9, 1939 to get into school (Harvey's Bdate above) This info is from an FBI report as footnote to p674 of the WCR. CE1874 mentions O.H. STOWE superintendent TARRANT county schools claiming they had an enrollment card for October 31, 1945 with July 9 1938 as Lee's Bday. The address was listed as ROUTE 5 BOX 567 (WCD897 p461) This shows that 2nd grade starting 9-9-47 was removed/changed to 3-19-48.... date of withdrawal is 3-18-47... Sept-March and no grades? It's as if nothing happened ... present 120 of the 180 school days but at LILY B CLAYTON, not GEORGE CLARK Bigger Question is why this card is different from the completed Cumulative record... Can anyone explain why a PERM RECORD would have an "early" version" and a "final" version ? The one above already lists 2 different schools so it's not specifically a "LILY B CLAYTON card: Also notice that 3300 WILLING is not listed... which was why he changed from CLAYTON to CLARK elementary... Sure wish I knew who wrote the handwritten things on this card And an FBI report re: Marge's addresses: like us - the FBI is stumped from 1942 - 1954. After 1954 there are addresses for Marge that directly contradict where she was and where she was working...

not being cheeky here.... why do we see 3114 Harlendale in Walthers' notes? Where did 3126 come from? DJ

This is what I've found... I didn't know off the top of my head.... Doesn't seem to be the same mistake... btw - what was the correct Harlendale address? DJ Wiki - District Attorney Henry Wade briefed reporters at the press conference telling them that Lee Oswald was a member of the anti-Castro Free Cuba Committee. Ruby was one of several people there who spoke up to correct Wade, saying, "Henry, that's the Fair Play for Cuba Committee," a pro-Castro organization. Article by Mike Sylwester, "Mob Connections: Jack Ruby, Smuggling With and Spying on Communists, 1938 - 1958" http://www.jfklancer.com/jackruby.html During the Friday night "press conference" with Lee Oswald at the Dallas Police Station, then District Attorney Henry Wade said that Lee Oswald was a member of the "Free Cuba Movement," Ruby corrected him, stating: Fair Play for Cuba." As Ruby testified to Chief Justice Warren:

Hey there Doug... do I have this right? it seems they got the wrong house in that article... Walthers' note says 3114 Harlendale...?? Plus, I guess this is a duplex? as the address on the post out front is 3126.... was this just more ASCI planted evidence against Ozzie? I do think I found an image of Oswald at one of these meetings... but can't be sure... That sure looks like CRUZ in the front row... I think that's Oswald by the way he is standing and holding his body FWIW DJ A point of interest has resurfaced again of late; that being a Nov. 23, 1963, report made by Dallas County Sheriff’s Department Deputy E.R. “Buddy” Walthers. In his report to Dallas County Sheriff Bill Decker, Walthers said that “at a house at 3128 Harlandale, some Cubans had been having meetings on the weekends and were possibly connected with the ‘Freedom for Cuba Party,’ of which Oswald was a member.” Walthers got the name wrong. Oswald was a self-proclaimed member of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (FPCC), which he set up while in New Orleans in the summer of 1963.

Here's a composite re: the Granbury house.... Based on the 2 sets of poles - telephone and electrical? - and that they lived off Granbury Route 45 (or 5??) Pic and Robert O talk of the brick/stone house on Granbury in the middle of nowhere... it's claimed the house was in an area flooded by the opening of Benbrook dam... but I fail to see how given the few details we have. (edit: you can see the top of a house to the right of the car)

LOL.. Thanks for the kind words John/Jim... I have been adding to the timeline so I will need to get you an update... Be nice if POAGE would let me keep a copy there...(hint) We have the fact there was ALSO A NOTE for a Harvey Oswald going to the HARRIS while Lee, I think, was the one with the punctured heel.... 4029 BYERS is also very close by... It's very possible they just stayed at Thomas... here's what John wrote: In 1940 the duplex at 2220 Thomas Place was purchased by Edna Pendleton. There were two apartments-one in the front (apt. "A"), and one in the rear (apt. "B"). In 1946 and 1947 Mrs. Rufie Cox occupied apartment "A," while Erwin and Velda Schutz occupied apartment "B." From 1948 thru 1954 Mrs. Rufie Cox occupied apartment "A," but there was no listing for anyone in apartment "B." 1948 7 19 HARVEY taken to Harris Hospital by Mr. Prestin "Allen" Summer Ft. Worth 2220 THOMAS PL / 4029 BYERS 1948 8 ?? FBI report claims Bell says Summer '48 for 3 months - MO and son Summer Benbrook 101 San Saba Let's look at this time frame... early 1948 Marge moves to 3300 Willing after finding Edwin with another woman at the 8th street apt. Summer 1948 the FBI has Marge and son moving to San Saba BEFORE Ewing... claiming Bell said they only lived there a few months. But we all know they were a year off... John Pic's photos of Lee and Blackie are of 101 San Saba... despite his trying to lie about it in testimony. That there is no listing for the "B" side from 1948-1952 is pretty telling - no? 4029 BYERS is a 10 min walk from 2220 Thomas... and BIRCHMAN is 1.5 miles down the road. Harvey could have attended Arlington Elementary (now South Hi Mount) after Lee leaves in summer '49... but that's just a guess... No records of Marge working and the infamous NANCY LEE and HARVEY are from Sept '47 thru June '48... then she gets crossed off and Marge Oswald becomes Marge Ekdahl despite claiming she wanted her name back after the divorce... (why would school records CHANGE to a name she was not using?) We must also remember that EDWIN would not have lived at San Saba... he was a NYC intellectual... BELL says Marge and son leave around Thanksgiving 1947... It MAY be possible that HARVEY is a few years younger and not yet going to school.. and when he finally does it's in a different grade than Lee... until after NYC and 1953... My $.02 DJ

Wanted to add this visual... Actual measurements within Gauthier's model based on the info provided in WCD298. There is a lot of contradictory info in this one image.... Part of the measurements was the distance from Zapruder to JFK... Here's a bit more detail into what was done to hide as much as possible. As Chris says... creating one shot from 2... (and it stands to reason if the shooters where radio connected... a "fire" command would be carried out by all shooters simultaneously... making many shots sound like fewer.)

Hey John... following Davidson's lead and the WEST surveys the question is whether or not a 3rd shot near 5+00 existed or was added to there were 3 shots... it was later removed and became the TAGUE shot... 56 frames from 171 is 227. 56 from 161 is 217... Halfway between is 222... 313 minus 89 = 224.... The numbers we know as the Zfilm frames was designed on purpose. Instead of Z133 being the frame the limo reappears, it was actually close to 33 frames later... the real mystery is 133 since we all know the camera was not turned off and on again. It takes the cycle 81 frames to make that wide turn onto Elm so we may infer from TRULY's wide turn story that there were at least 50-80 frames spliced out of that turn from Zapruder. Creating the relationship between Z100 and Z161/166/168 & 171 is the reason CE884 was hidden and changed. Traveling .9' in 3 frames at 15mph or even 11mph doesn't work... those 2 speeds are 2.24mph for the stuff marked on the street... 168-171 and a bit over 3 mph for 161-166. Either way the limo was barely moving as it comes out of that turn onto Elm (that's why Towner's movie is so strange... the background gets bigger while the limo gets smaller; that's not possible as whether zooming or moving toward to objects, they both would get larger within the image... This is also exactly where 133 runs to 171 in Z... ) Then there's the entire thing about Shaneyfelt moving the path of the limo south so line of sight for 161 becomes 168... By shifting the spot to indicate the frame numbers from where JFK sat to front and rear bumpers, the FBI and SS were able to create complete confusion... the data offered does not represent what is seen on the zfilm... WEST used the location markers "3+00" for example to plot the limo course every 25 feet... except for 5+00 Shaneyfelt moves the path by inserting dots with frame numbers as the limo's from bumper reaches them... while the SS reconstruction used the rear bumper. It's 15.5 feet from front to JFK and another 6 feet to the rear bumper. the image below is true to scale. Is it a coincidence that the movement places JFK at 168... and the old 168-171 on what becomes CE884... becomes 161-166... Nothing about the zframe numbers or the info provided by the FBI works. Whereas the WEST surveys were consistent throughout. Finally... the limo was said to pass thru POSITION A - but not filmed - by SHANEYFELT... which is why they put the limo at this position in the reenactments The Queen Mary was very close to the limo when z133 appears... yet how can the limo be at POS A and then Z133 with the follow-up car right on it's tail?

Larry - I think simply because NPIC was so CIA affiliated and staffed they call these docs CIA.... I have not seen anything from NPIC in terms of a study/evaluation or conclusion unless we speak of the 4 briefing boards Homer and gang did, Yes, I agree Larry... Dino's boards were completely different and MAY be the CIA analysis of which we speak since no one after that weekend ever sees them.(until Hicks).. and it most likely pointed out problems that couldn't be let into the record... If I remember correctly Arthur Lundahl brought these to McCone on Sunday with briefing notes. 1 of the 2 board sets was returned to Dino then given to Hicks who freaked and withheld it from Rockefeller Comm. (Horne V4 p1236)

This was amazing... yet not very description of the shots themselvesWashington Navy Yard NPIC and Dinos interview.doc and Not in those notes (CIA450)... only from Homer McMahon's AARB interview... while you were discussing the, the hits, the shots that hit the people in the limousine---ah, the Governor and the President. Did Mr. Smith tell you the directions the shots came from, or did you people try to determine that on your own during your study of the film? McMahon (10:38): OK, let, let me not answer that question, and take a little detour. I’m an Army brat; my Dad was in the First and Second World War.... Horne: Your opinion. McMahon: About eight (8) shots. Gunn: And where did they come from? McMahon: Three different directions, at least.

On a subsequent page Jim. NPIC staff notes the 18 vs 16fps camera speed - which they know is wrong... LIFE published saying which frames the shots were (I believe)... more importantly was when this was written. How does NPIC know what LIFE has done if this is the weekend of the assassination unless someone tells them? The multiple gunman comes from realizing that a East side 6th floor TSBD gunman has the trees in the way at 190...(see the SS photos at z186 below)By default, if 6th floor Eastwindow shooter can't hit JFK at 190 due to the tree... there MUST be a 2nd shooter with a clear line of sight... from the front.

Been reading thru the Weisberg Archives... by letter... "Oswald as Agent" has 3 volumes and a wealth of interesting stuff... The infamous CIA # 110669 which Tom Hume as well as Weisberg and peers saw used within encrypted messages... the numbers in 110669 were used alot by Oswald...

Yeah, I'd have a tough time agreeing with that... Here are some images that might help ID the reflections... DJ

Which building in DP is your #1 & #2?

Those notes describe exactly what we see in the HOMER created boards, not DINO's. They call out frames with shots possibly seen - there are 6 different frames offered and the question... How did LIFE determine the 1st and 2nd shots? The page with all the frame numbers in a table : Placing the first shot at 190 puts the tree between JFK and the 6th floor window Jim... they used POS A to confuse the issue in the WCR by claiming that this was the position where the mark on the stand-in JFK hits the right spot... complete BS. Look up the MATH RULES thread for details.

Speaking of reflections... While trying to figure out what the Towner reflection shows... can you ID the building above the reflecting pool columns in Altgens 6? (Btw - there is a great reflection image in Altgens 5 showing Houston and people on the west side)

Virtually Stopped at the corner just before turning back hard left to get thru Position A to what the FBI’s Shaneyfelt called z133 The “Truly” corner, as his description from testimony was crystal clear. {Edit... I jest John... idk yet what I’m really seeing} Mr. TRULY. That is right.And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn. Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb? Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the left.If he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here. Mr. BELIN. All right (that’ll be enough from u buddy...;)

I think that's Houston in the reflection... if your red line is correct, you would not see anything to the LEFT of the limo, only to the right... turn a mirror that way and see... If Towner is the dot and the limo is the mirror we'd see the WEST side of Houston to the left/front of the limo, and to the south as you move to the right on the limo towards to the back of it. while the red line coming from the TSBD is correct, Towner wouldn't be able to see it since the mirrored surface - FROM HER VANTAGE POINT - only points to the WEST down Houston... and back toward her but slightly to her right... she is not seen in the limo mirror - or just barely.. ELM is at the far LEFT of the image - the left front fender... Yet if that really is the East side of Houston... where'd all the people go?

Hey John, Take another close look at the actual towner image. Now look at an overhead of Dealey Plaza... Dal-Tex is in the background of the Towner image so the reflection would be back down Houston.. Elm would not be in that reflection (Use the blue arrow thru the "=" sign and the white image of the limo under the "x".. that reflect to Towner's right... Elm should not be visible if the reflection is to the South... Can we ID the things reflected with greater accuracy using images of Dealey?