David Josephs

33 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

BTW David that is really good finding out Echeveria was in on the arrest of Duran.  How could this guy have been ignored for so long?

He was also OCHOA's boss...  Ochoa remains the one and only person to have compiled virtually every scrap of paper documentation related to Oswald coming and going and staying in Mexico...  So while Echeverria was CIA, The FBI had their sources and means as well.... 

Matt Allison - a question, why do you suppose Hoover and his FBI covered for the CIA related to Mexico?
(hint: Sylvia Odio)

2 hours ago, Matt Allison said:

I believe during the podcast it is mentioned that Hosty stated other FBI agents told him that the FBI themselves had Oswald under surveillance in MC. If that is true, that obviously has some bearing on the question of whether LHO was actually there or not.

 

And Hoover tells us in so many words the entire thing was a CIA scam... 

So Hosty in a public forum... or his boss in a rare authentic moment to one of his Sr Staff....

7 minutes ago, Larry Hancock said:

What I would say it has now reached a  point where I do not consider Mexico City as being significant to the attack in Dallas nor to the basic conspiracy.  But that will step on lots of toes and drive everyone to defending their territories so that's another story for a later time. 

If we are correct about Oswald not being in Mexico... it becomes even more likely that the Odio's see him when they said they did... meaning he traveled to Dallas on the 24th/25th of Sept and spent the week there.

Given what was done to Odio's information... I wonder about your thoughts on how Mexico was indeed significant to the basic conspiracy...  At the time, and all the way thru Lopez's comment, it was accepted he went...  IOW Alvarado has to say he was not truthful in his story telling - about the man OSWALD at the Cuban Embassy.. the basic premise of his being there due to the CIA transcripts and the coerced information from DURAN.

If DURAN had actually seen Oswald and done the things she said she did with "this man" the more local publicity the better - to reinforce his being there through other means....

14 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

I think Chicago and Florida were smoke and mirrors meant to confuse JFK and "Security", including rumors, thus Milteer/an office building(Florida), and unwitting actors in Chicago calling in ("Lee"), people escaping, the guy  with the gun and trunk full of ammo that worked in a building overlooking the route.  False threats. 

I think Abe Bolden would take issue with your statement Ron....  I assume you've read Black's "The Chicago Plot"... for those who have not, it's attached.

"Never believe anything in politics until it is officially denied"  I believe that every report related to Valle includes references to Oswald...

The Chicago Plot.pdf

But once conspiracy becomes lone nut.... the story MUST change... Alvarado is discredited and sent home...  Paz the same only that party lie takes a long time to die on the vine...  thanks to LIHUFF... Ms. June Cobb, among others...  

Please correct me if I mistake Larry... thanks.

I believe this passage from Lopez’s report moved us away from even considering the trip, so we are left with the ambiguities of the calls and photos and BS stories engineered imho by Phillips.  Once you dismiss this as simply more HSCA prattle.... and look at the investigation docs, it appears quite obvious the CIA wanted him to be found traveling with others to solidify the Cuban/Soviet conspiracy angle...  The young couple, the Brill’s, become a whole new red herring.
 

He married his first wife in China - she was from Denmark - both were living in Shanghai...  maybe that's why they can't find any documents?

The entire marriage to Marge - now that I look at documents and know much more about MIT graduate Ekdahl - seems like a scam....  he buys and sells land in Ft Worth as I have found a number of Deeds yet cannot pinpoint the location.

I also found the lease agreement between Marge Ekdahl and Buster Murray from August 1947....  while notarized, there are no names (see below)

Georgia Bell says that after short fat Marge and son leave around Thanksgiving 1947, no one lived at 101 San Saba. 
Otis Carleton buys 101 San Saba after his house burns down...  (see bottom image...  etux means "with spouse")

Edwin Albert Ekdahl lived in NYC when he died on January 26, 1953... - could the Tippit caller think HE WAS OSWALD's FATHER?

And to bring this around to FRED KORTH again....  Not only was he EKDAHL's lawyer of record in the divorce and somehow involved with Lee's life...
In 1956,  his sister and her husband release a deed of trust..  for land Ekdahl owned in Ft Worth...  I believe he is at the WORTH HOTEL here... so his sister either comes to visit or he simply writes in her name as witness...

More importantly is the ongoing relationship with FRED KORTH who is Trustee for Edwin A Ekdahl.....

Also of note re: EKDAHL is the lack of mention of his first wife Rasmine in his will.... (I believe)...  An FBI report claims a search for the divorce decree for Ekdahl's marriage to Rasmine has never turned up... (bottom image)

Here is the actual will as recorded by Tarrant County at the time of creation (Dated February 10, 1947 yet changed to May 10, 1947)...
The divorce was final June 15, 1948... a little more than a week later Ekdahl cuts Marge out of the will....

"All that can be ascertained about the dissolution of his first marriage is that he "separated" from Rasmine around 1941-1942. The FBI specifically sought to find a divorce decree in the Boston area for Ekdahl, presumably from Rasmine, but found none.  "  - The Strange Case of Edwin Ekdahl

On January 27, 1947 Edwin Ekdahl was not even in the picture....  yet he is listed in this single-record CUMULATIVE document as "Father Name" with no mother???  Marge did all this kind of stuff... usually not the men dealing with school registration....

In the OTHER CUMULATIVE record it starts 9-9-47 AFTER they were married, but shows Ekdahl as deceased....  he didn't die until 1953.  Who goes back to an Elementary school CUMULATIVE record to add "(deceased)"...  to me this just screams FBI alteration...  And the fact Marge asks for and gets her name OSWALD back (instead of Claverie her actual maiden name ???) yet is listed as EKDAHL on the TARRANT COUNTY SCHOOL RECORDS also seems out of place....

The 12 man jury ruled in favor of the plaintiff on June 24, 1948, but awarded Marguerite 250 USD in attorney fees, and 1500 USD additional compensation. Oswald was granted her previous name, and ordered to pay court costs.

Jim - I took what you said and looked more carefully...  whoever copied this was paying much attention either... Room 193 becomes 193 days Present, 87 days present becomes 87 days absent... A 280 day school year... nice.  And of course the obvious 2 different forms

Finally, the fact is the on card which starts with 9-9-47 and 2nd grade isn't on his permanent record... and if there was some change that needed Oswald to start a new card after 1st grade, why doesn't it just continue on this new card...   add to this the strange tale of Robert claiming Lee/Edwin/Marge go to Boston for 6 months in the winter of 45...

Robert Oswald:

And they had during the winter of 1945 gone to Boston, where they stayed, I would say, for approximately 6 months. I understand Mr. Ekdahl had been married and had a son by a prior marriage, and they had lived together, all of them -
Lee, my mother, Mr. Ekdahl, and his son-in Boston. But that he was on the road quite a bit.

Mr. JENNER. I see. Following their living for 6 months in Boston, where did they live thereafter, during that period of time, until the divorce?
Mr. OSWALD. I believe after they left Massachusetts, they moved to Benbrook, Tex., and resided at Benbrook, Tex

Robert refers to this as the native stone home… so this must be on Granbury…. Bought in the spring of 1946 – per Robert. 

We have them RENTING Granbury in Sept 1945, BEFORE the WINTER TRIP TO BOSTON  

Mr. OSWALD. This particular house I refer to, a native stone home

Could Robert really be that far off?  The go to BOSTON after dropping off Robert and John at Chamberlain

I think we'd all agree that the surest way to make 2 people look like one is to create a single historical record...

Of course Lee and family are on 8th street....

Personally I don't believe the images from San Saba are of Harvey, but of Lee and mom and Pic at some point when going to collect rent or simply check on the property....

So PIC not knowing nothin' 'bout San Saba is a simple lie to cover for "something" he thought may have been going on there... yet his testimony specifically mentions 2 Benbrook homes...

Since there are no Tarrant records for 46-47 where do we get the info LEE attended school in Benbrook?

(side note:  Can you name the investigation of ANYONE in the league of Lee Oswald that had such concern over the state of mind of the assassin at age 5, 6 & 7??? as to need their elementary school records?  This just screams "BS coverup" to me at least...)

CE1874  

Dallas, Texas April 3, 1964

LEEE HARVEY OSWALD

By letter dated March 20, 1964, the President's Commission requested that investigation be Conducted Concerning LEE HARVEY OSWALD's possible attendance at a day nursery in Dallas, Texas, during the School Year 1944 - 1945, in an effort to obtain school records and information from individuals who recalled LEE HARVEY OSWALD's personality, interests and abilities .

The President's Commission also advised that ROBERT OSWALD had testified before the President's Commission that LEE HARVEY OSWALD had attended elementary school in Benbrook, Texas, during 1946 and 1947 it we requested that in obtaining information concerning LEE HARVEY OSWALD that efforts be made to obtain information concerning his brother, ROBERT LEE OSWALD, JR., and his half-brother, JOHN EDWARD PIC .

The WCR CE1873 betrays once again the 2 Oswalds....  Like NYC, a child is supposedly gets a SINGLE, PERMANENT CUMULATIVE RECORD CARD

This final card (image 3 below "page 4" ) was obviously created after the fact, possibly by the FBI, and contains quite a few bad mistakes....

Here is a composite of the 3 different PERM CUMUL RECORDS... 

The top record is 1873-B  

Despite having the same "DATE OF ENTRY" as 1-27-47...  record #1 on the card with only 1 line on it does not match the inverted record from the PERM CARD for the same year...
Record #2 shows a staring "DATE OF ENTRY" as 9-9-47 thru 3-19-48 when he transfers to School #18 GEORGE C CLARK  -  again it is obvious the 2 records are different AND that the PERM RECORD #3 does not include any #18 GEORGE C CLARK school info.    While going to GEORGE C CLARK they supposedly were living at 3300 WILLING... before they move to EWING... yet once again, card #3 only offers 8th street and EWING....  it's as if 1947-48 just never happened.  Line 3 of records #3 ENTERING 9-5-48 ARLINGTON HEIGHTS ELEM... This school changed its name to SOUTH HI MOUNT and is literally 3 blocks from 2220 THOMAS....

Whereas if they actually lived at 3300 WILLING, little Oswald would attend GEORGE C CLARK - the only school with a separate listing and still connected to 8th street and not Willing,,,

On the PERM Record #2 we SHOULD SEE the addition of 3300 Willing and on Record #3 it most certainly should be before EWING...

This was sent to the TEXAS AG, WAGGONER CARR by Ft Worth's V. T. Sommers via CATO HIGHTOWER Chief of Ft Worth Police

This recap seems to disregard the actual Lee Oswald starting in September 1947 (bottom CUMULATIVE RECORD) which only has the move from Lily B Clayton to George C Clark.
One has to wonder why this 2nd grade record for the '46-'47 school year is on a different PERMANENT CARD and then does not continue on the Final one..

4 minutes ago, John Butler said:

You are right Jim.  But, it doesn't fit Fred Blair.  A quote from David's comments:

"THE WOMAN SAID SHE KNEW OSWALD’S FATHER AND UNCLE WHO
WERE HUNGARIANS AND COMMUNISTS."
 

That was the point.  It goes along with David Josephs notion we might be making unwarranted assumptions.  I don't necessarily agree with David.  But, he has a good point that needs to be considered.  That is why I stressed Hungarians and communists. 

This doesn't fit Fred Blair suggesting there may be two groups of two men.  It is an idea worth checking out.

 

John - I think what Jim means is that Fred Blair was not the Uncle... he was considered the brother-in-law.. Emil's brother-in-law in this case, which would also make Emil's brother - the uncle, a brother-in-law.... and brother-in-law to Emil's sisters as well.

If Emil's brothers are not candidates for the UNCLE position, Emil cannot be the father.

Let's take a closer look at the FACTS OF THE CALL:

• SHE COULD NOT GIVE HER NAME AS SHE WAS AFRAID OF BEING KILLED,
  THAT SHE WAS FROM NEW YORK AND HAD TO COME "HERE" TO MAKE THE
  CALL SO THAT SHE COULD NOT BE TRACED
  
  Communists do not trace phone calls... the FBI does, the police does, the "government" does.
  
   
• NOTHING BE SAID TO THE PRESS
  ABOUT A WOMAN CALLING AS THEY WOULD KNOW HER IDENTITY AND SHE
  WOULD BE KILLED
  
  Nothing was said to the press, only the FBI.  We don't know if they tried to TRACE the call based on the time.  Was there any record of local calls in 1963 for police/FBI to trace?
   
• OSWALD’S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND (87th?)
  AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC
  
  What do we think, if any, is the significance of this address?  While it used to be part of YORKVILLE, by the 50's it was no longer and was now part of LENOX HILLS in the Upper East Side....  (FWIW this was the most wealthy area of Manhattan comprised of the BANKERS and WALL STREET MEN as well as titans of industry who all supported the Bolshevik Revolution so the Western capitalistic and banking centers would have a strong and growing enemy in the East against which to loan their money to finance wars...)  I mention this as I believe there is a direct connection between what this woman is saying and the original group looking to overthrow FDR's government in the 30's.
  
  Those making up this group and the people in that circle held never-ending wealth and influence.  It's no coincidence WWI and the FED RES ACT coincided. 
   
• THE WOMAN STATED KARDOS IS HEAD OF THE COMMUNISTS AND THAT THIS
  GROUP IN NEW YORK NOW HAS CHARTS AND MAPS.
  
  GARDOS was NOT the head of the communists in NYC.   That article Paul posted was from Wisconsin, not NYC... in NYC Gardos was not all that well known.
  
  From the HUAC 1949 trial including Gardos:
   

  Mr. Malkin. I testified in Peters' deportation hearing and identified him in New York.
  Mr. Dekom. You identified him as what?
  Mr. Malkin: J. Peters was born in Hungary. He was active in the Hungarian revolution in 1919.
  Mr. Dekom. That was the Communist revolution?
  Mr. Malkin. That is right; under Bela Kun. He came to the United States with another person called Emil Gardos.

  AND THIS IS IT !   Other than he and his wife listed for wanting visas, this is the only other reference to Emil Gardos in either book of transcripts

So, while this person has some factual data, she seems to be telling the story not knowing the whole story.... 

John - you have any info on AMY BLAIR, Grace's sister?  It seems to me one would have had to read that Wisconsin paper article to get the names GARDOS and BLAIR associated with "brother-in-law"... yet that article is written in 1949.  From the time Georgia Bell says Marge and son leave around Thanksgiving 1947, until the Bronx zoo photo... we have no location for Harvey Oswald... except for in the TARRANT COUNTY school records:

Believe it or not, the TARRANT books skip 1946-47.  There is nothing for Oswald in the 1944-45 or 45-46 sections...

'47-'48 with NANCY LEE OSWALD who has HARVEY's 1948-49 birthday and who first gets crossed out in 48/49 and then TED L OSWALT is listed next (Ted L has been there all along)

in '48-'49 (above and below) - yet we were told that Marge used 7/19/39 as Lee's Bdate to get him into school BACK IN 1945 !

This is for the '49-'50 school year....  Lee was born Oct 18, not 19... right? and when did they change his birthdate from 7/9/39 to 10/19?

And 51-52... this is YEARS after their divorce... 

According to TARRANT COUNTY, there never was a boy named LEE OSWALD attending any of their schools...

?????

Hey Paul,

Believe it or not, there were 3 Margaret Keatings....

Siblings  Margaret Emma Keating  1892–1972 (m. 1920)

James V. Keating II, Margaret's brother marries Edna Margaret Lloyd Keating 1900–1966

They have a son named JAMES VICTOR KEATING III who leaves one daughter, Margaret Elizabeth Keating of Bethesda

From H&L:  This is the last info on Telemachus in the book

Margaret Keating Oswald was the first wife of Robert E. L. Oswald (father of Robert and Lee Harvey Oswald), whom she divorced in 1933. The court restored her last name to Keating, her maiden name, which she kept for the remainder of her life (she apparently never remarried). The name Margaret Keating and her address, 120 N. Telemachus Street, appear in New Orleans City Directories, telephone books, voter registration records, etc., from 1933 thru the early 1960's.

Did not work

11 hours ago, Gene Kelly said:

Then there are the HSCA revelations about one Colonel Samuel G. Kail ... purportedly an Army military attaché in Havana. Kail  was a West Point graduate, and military intelligence, but assumed to be a "functionary" of the CIA (whatever that is). Lieutenant Kail was awarded a Silver Star for his exploits in Korea.  He told the HSCA "I assume that CIA pays our bills" but he also received a CIA legion of Merit Award.  That is why I belive the distinction between CIA and military is not clear and a moot point

A while back I did a hand drawn connections chart including KAIL...  based on the work here at the Forum - especially Steve Thomas'...

Maybe it helps see the bigger picture...  DJ

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25539-lee-harvey-oswalds-social-security-no/

Bart says this comes from Malcolm yet I remember seeing the green page version from Steven Gaal many, many years ago...

This is what I have for 1955 for Harvey (black) and Lee (Blue)...  Marge's info is usually in red... as are the odd years in my spreadsheet.

The address for Harvey and "mom" is based on telephone book records and existing historical documents... FWIW

52 minutes ago, John Butler said:

I think you are on to something with this.  I have felt all along that Grace Gardos and the way she was treated by the FBI has something to do with the Tippit call.  She is not mentioned directely, but indirectly as the wife of Emil Gardos in the call.

I assume you refer to "brother-in-law" and your conclusion that MUST refer to Blair...   As I understand it, Grace is in Hungary in 1963 when the call is made, right?

It only makes sense to connect Gardos and Blair via that comment... if and only if it is Grace - or someone in the know...

As for her treatment... please elaborate.  She was an American living in a communist country, living as a communist... it would be strange to have a double agent like Childs report on another agent, Grace... if she was acting in that capacity.  But it would solidify her cover....

So it was not Grace as she was not here... agreed?

Grace and Amy Blair are about the same age... sisters...  one wonders to which sibling Grace was closest.  The name BLAIR would raise some communist eyebrows if it was learned it was a Blair making that call... yes?  The connections would be obvious if one knew anything about the CP in Wisconsin.

Did any other Blair family members have children in the late 30's early 40's?

Did any other Blair family members move to NY?

With Gardos and Weinstock on that list for Visas... I wonder who was known as the CP power in Yorkville...  

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/opinion/new-york-american-communism.html   this article places the CP power in south Manhattan... where the CP HQ was located...

In 1956, with a hard core of 20,000 or so surviving members, the party was dealt a fatal blow when the Soviet leader, Nikita Khrushchev, delivered a “secret speech” to the 20th party congress in Moscow, denouncing his predecessor, Stalin, as a bloody mass murderer. The speech leaked. So did the disillusioned membership of the Communist Party U.S.A., reduced to a few thousand members by 1958, and never recovering much beyond that in decades to come. It did, however, survive the collapse of its political inspiration, the Soviet experiment.

The 50's showed what power the US democratic/capitalistic society could wield.  It was a direct blow to the CP who had been preaching about the depression and how it was inevitable as opposed to the Russian way of life which would care for everyone.. or so it was said.

That the caller names GARDOS and NYC... and WEINSTOCK suggests to me the caller MUST have had ties to Wisconsin... or simply had heard the names, was deathly afraid of communists and then called the Tippits?  If it was the CP she was worried about, she should have called the FBI... or police.

Did the CHILDS' have wives?

15 hours ago, John Butler said:

The cover up of the Tippit Phone Call may not have been about the Oswald at all. 

How much of this one can believe is problematic.  I’m offering this as a speculation on why the FBI treated the call as they did.

That is where my thinking is going as well John.  Yet, Childs working from 1952 to 1982 matches the time frame for the useful tenure of one Marge C. Oswald who dies in 1981.

In the summer of '53 Harvey and Marge go to Stanley ND.  One can pass thru Milwaukee on this trip.  Childs is in Milwaukee.  More on ND shortly....
In the summer/fall of 1953, Lee's mother works in NYC with PIC visiting her from time to time.  

Something is going on it appears... whether related or not... well, that's what we're doing here, right?

John.. Archive.org has a large amount of data on the 2 Child’s and Operation Solo... saw a 3500 page scanned doc with nothing but info from, on both Child’s....  nice find.

Ken,

there would be little reason for those who do not know about all the conflicts to even bother.  While H&L works for most people who take the time to consider the totality of the evidence, it is not a widely held theory despite it fitting the evidence so well.

while a DNA test today seems no big deal... there are legal considerations that preclude these tests from just happening... I mean Robert’s kids and Lee’s should have DNA showing they are related to Marge.   What are the chances of being allowed to do that you think.

If we’re right, it looks like an ONI/CIA project.... getting Americans into Russia for intel.  When in fact the KGB turned tables by finding wives for these Americans with which to return to the US and gather their own intel.  Marina’s backstory is just as amazing and interesting..  did you know she had her birth certificate reissued in 1961, and the number of inconsistencies along her life are also noteworthy...  her name and occupation changes often depending on where u look.

Bottom line, with Lee, Robert, John and mom at 1505 8th thru the summer of 47, a short, fat woman and child are seen living at 101 San Saba... personally I fail to see how this can be Harvey and Marge2...but that’s the idea.... what seems to happen after this is that Harvey follows Lee and vice versa, schools, Marine training, etc....  How Harvey and M2 get to NY then is a mystery....

Btw, Pic only starts using notes in his testimony starting with August 1952.... the Moment they come to NY.... fwiw

HERE'S THE POST I REFER TO:

3 hours ago, David Josephs said:

OK - Facts and Speculation....   Emil could have simply been the man paying the FATHER and UNCLE...
It seems to me quite possible the big deal reason for hiding this away had more to do with the US CITIZEN GRACE BLAIR GARDOS than with Emil  (see below)*

 

Using these FACTS... what can be concluded about this woman and her call in regards to: Oswald, the Father/Uncle, a "brother-in-law", Wisconsin and Yorkville?

FACTS

·         Jack D Tippit is a married cartoonist in Westport CT

·         Call was about 11:30 am on “INSTANT DATE” – what does that mean?

·         Caller was a woman with an accent

·         Asked if Tippit related to Dallas Tippit

·         Mrs. T says “distantly related” to officer and asked her name

·         Could not give name – afraid of being killed

·         Caller was from NY

·         Caller had come “here” to avoid being traced (knows enough about long distance and local calls)

·         Caller requests nothing be said TO THE PRESS about a “woman calling” – they would know and kill her

(This not saying anything about the call to the PRESS thing… with the info offered what would the caller be assuming? – they would just sit on the info or call the FBI instead?)

·         Knows Oswald’s Father and Uncle WERE Hungarian Communists

·         Caller says Father and Uncle lived at 77^th and 2^nd in Yorkville. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkville,_Manhattan#/map/0 Yorkville slightly north
S: East 79^th / E: FDR Drive / N: 96^th / W: 3^rd Ave

·         Both unemployed – paid by the Communists to do Communist activities
(Helping to form Unions was primary activity)

·         Caller offers the name EMILE KARDOS (sic) Emil & Grace Gardos

·         Caller focuses on the term “Brother-in-law” repeating it but not defining it

·         Mrs. Tippit tries to find out who the brother-in-law is but woman just repeats the phrase

·         Caller says GARDOS head of the Communists

·         Caller says this NY Group has “charts and maps”

·         Caller mentions WEINSTOCK, editor of Worker’s World

·         Caller says group in NY plans to take over Government

·         Caller says “they” will deny it

·         Caller hangs up

·         FBI New Haven has no knowledge re: Father/Uncle residence or associates

SPECULATION
 

·         Call sounded local

·         Austrian/Germen and/or Spanish

·         Woman sounded mature

·         Mrs. Tippit mentions Norwalk Hour article about Tippit relatives

 

https://archive.org/stream/FBI-Operation-Solo/100-HQ-428091-Serial5842-5915_djvu.txt  

*TO : DIRECTOR, FBI (100-428091)

FROM: SAC, CHICAGO (134-46 Sub

Enclosed herewith for the Bureau are the original and three copies and f b$ New York one copy of a letterhead memorandum entitled, t !2BCF» W I ¥^r UNITED STATES CITIZEN RESIDING IN BUDAPEST, ^m M ^ ^ L^.

The information appearing in the enclosed letter-head memorandum was orally furnished on 10/15 and 18/66 by CG 5824rS* to SAs WALTER A. BQYLE. and RICHARD W, HANSEN

The enclosed letterhead memorandum is classified ? since unauthorized disclosure of the information set forth therein could reasonably Result in the identification of this source who is furnishing - information on the highest levels concerning the international communist movement, and thus adversely affecting the national, security In order to further protect the identity of this source, the enclosed Letterhead memorandum has been shown as being prepared at Washington, D.C.

(|?Bureau (Eqc>- 4) (RM)

1-New York <7100^134637) (Enc.^ 1) (Info) (RH)

RWH-MD17

 

================
In connection with the information set forth in the enclosed letterhead memorandum, CG 5824-S* advised that in regard to the negotiations concerning GRACE GARDOS* release, he had on HALUs instructions submitted a letter to the Central Committee of the Hungarian Socialist Workers Party (HS1VP) which was delivered to Z0LTA1T KOMOCSIN. In this letter it was noted that the CP, USA Was aware of problems in Hungary regarding hard currency and for this reason, i,£ necessary, was willing to lay out the money itself to cover GARDOS ' return to the U.S. Within an hour of the time this letter had been delivered, a response. " had come Tsack from the Central Committee of the HSWP authorizing GARDOS 1 release. The HSWP was, according to CG 582.4rS*, a little disturbed at HALL ' s intimation that "cheapness" and lack of funds on the part of the Hungarians had been, the cause for the long delay in handling this matter.

In Reply, Please Refer to File No. _______

 

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION  Washington, D. C.  October 24, 1966

GRACE GARDOS, UNITED STATES CITIZEN RESIDING IN BUDAPEST, HUNGARY. . .

 

A source, who has furnished reliable information in the past, during October, 1966, advised as follows;

In September, 1966, the Communist Party, USA (CP, USA) , through the cooperation of Zoltan Komocsin, a member of the Political Bureau, Central Committee, Hungarian Socialist Workers Party (HSWP) , made arrangements for Grace Gardos to be given permission. to return to the United States in order that she might work for the CP, USA in New York City » New York. Grace Gardos is a United States citizen who had gone to Hungary a number of years ago when her husband voluntarily accepted deportation from the United States.

Up to the present time, Grace Gardos has been acting as correspondent for "The Worker, " United States East Coast communist newspaper in Budapest . Her husband Emil is living in Budapest in a retired jstatus and on pension, / /frWs/^/  Gardos was scheduled to leave Budapest, Hungary, for the United States on approximately October 15, 1966, and was expected to arrive in the United States sometime around October 18, 1966.

In regard to Grace Gardos, it has been learned that she had not been particularly happy with her status in Hungary and there may be intent on her part at this time never to return to that country. This possible intent on the part of Gardos was not revealed by the CP, USA to the HSWP during negotiations with them. There was also some indication that Gardos, once she has returned to the United States, may make efforts for her son, who also resides in Budapest, to come to the United, States for possible permanent residence.

4 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

David, 

Let me see if I've got your gist here:

1.We should consider whether the woman caller did not connect Gardos and Blair as "Oswald's" father and uncle, but instead as two distinct pairs of men. 

Hmm.   THE CALLER NEVER CONNECTED GARDOS AND BLAIR... WE DID. (SEE MY POST WHICH FOLLOWED THAT SPELLS OUT THE FACTS AND SPECULATION)

Well, she mentioned "Hungarians and Communists", and Gardos (both Hungarian and Communist) and Blair (Communist) fit. And she seemed to imply a connection between them and "Oswald's" father and uncle, but we have no explicit statement as to that, so your hypothesis is still (remotely) possible.  JUST TRYING TO ID "FACTS" FROM THAT REPORT

2. If the Gardos/Blair pair were distinct from "Oswald's" father and uncle, then it would seem that all four were Communist and three of the four were Hungarian. And therefore, little "Oswald" was Hungarian.   FACTS PAUL.... WOULD YOU SAY JOHN GARDOS WAS HUNGARIAN?  HIS FATHER WAS HUNGARIAN, MOTHER AMERICAN, BORN IN MICHIGAN....
LITTLE OSWALD... FATHER/UNCLE HUNGARIAN COMMUNISTS (POSSIBLY PAID BY GARDOS).. MOTHER: UNKNOWN, LOCATION BORN: UNKNOWN....
WHY AGAIN MUST LITTLE OSWALD BE HUNGARIAN?

3. I agree that Margaret Keating is of interest as a possible "Marguerite" imposter. However, the only image we have of her simply does not fit. She's not our "Marguerite". So, unless the photographic record has been manipulated (possible), that's a dead end. SO QUICK TO CONCEDE...  WHILE FROM IRELAND AND DOUBTFULLY CONNECTED, THERE MAY BE MORE TO THE KEATINGS THAN JUST A SINGLE WOMAN

James Victor Keating the 2^nd and 3^rd  

The JVK 2^nd was brother to Margaret Keating, Oswald’s 1^st wife.

The 2^nd marries  Edna MARGARET Lloyd (BECOMING MARGARET KEATING)
James V Keating the 3^rd marries Kathryn Kelley and has a daughter named: Margaret Elizabeth Keating of Bethesda.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/102795476/margaret-emma-keating

4. I am not so interested in how the woman caller came to know of Mrs. Jack Tippit (albeit, that is a good question)  as to why she made the call. Did she really believe the Hungarians and Communists were about to take over the government? Did she really think little "Oswald" (from Yorkville) was some sort of super-duper secret agent, upon whose marksmanship rested a giant conspiracy plotted by foreigners and Reds? If she was not referring to Hungarians and Communists as the "Group from New York" intending to take over the government, then who?

I don't know what she thought, but why didn't she call the authorities? Of whom was she so afraid? Hungarians and Communists in NYC in 1963?
THE $64K QUESTION... WHO WOULD KNOW HER NAME AND WHO SHE WOULD BE SO AFRAID OF....  I'M THINKING THE COMMUNISTS WHICH MAY REACH BACK AS FAR AS THE 30'S WITH THE FDR COUP ATTEMPT.  HOW SHE COMES TO BE AWARE OF THE TIPPITS IN CT - ESPECIALLY A "JACK" TIPPIT - AND THAT SHE WOULD COME "HERE" TO MAKE THE CALL IS, TO ME, A KEY PIECE OF WHETHER THIS CALL WAS REAL OR AN FBI/CIA SETUP

 

5. I agree completely that the mystery of how this woman knew/believed that the Dallas "Oswald" was the same little boy whose father and uncle were NYC communists is something that we need to solve. I asked that same question weeks ago. 

I posed that it would have been impossible for any outsider to look at the face of a 24-year old man and be certain that he was the same little boy she'd known from 15 years earlier. Yet, she was so certain that she made this frantic call to Mrs. Tippit and identified "Oswald" as the son of a Hungarian Communist who had once lived in Yorkville! 

That meant, I argued, that our caller could only have been certain about "Oswald's" identity if . . . she had known him when he used the name "Oswald". If she had known him as a boy under a different name, it would have been impossible for her many years later then to recognize him as "Oswald"!  OR KNEW THE CHILD WHO WAS TO BECOME "OSWALD" SINCE LEE HARVEY WAS NOT BORN TO A MAN & WOMAN LIVING IN NYC IN 1939...  IF YOU FOLLOW THE TIMELINE FOR HARVEY, IN THE SUMMER OF 1953 WHEN LEE AND MOM ARE IN NYC, HARVEY AND CARETAKER GO TO NORTH DAKOTA AS TOLD BY MR TIMMER.  TIMMER GOES ON TO SAY THIS 14/15 YEAR OLD TALKED ABOUT "ONE DAY KILLING THE PRESIDENT"
   BTW - A TRIP TO STANLEY NORTH DAKOTA FROM NYC WOULD ALLOW THEM TO PASS THRU MILWAUKEE

I believe you tend to agree with my speculation that the 1940's connection between the little boy ("Oswald") and the real Lee Harvey Oswald could only have been made by someone who actually physically saw both boys. And that could only have been Edwin Ekdahl, the real Marguerite's third husband. When Ekdahl notified his contacts (formal or informal) in the national security apparatus about the apparent physical similarity between the two boys, the "Harvey" project was born. This had to be before Edwin and Marguerite split up in the summer of 1947 and divorced in 1948. 

I DON'T AGREE - REMEMBER, IF THIS WAS A CIA/ANGLETON THING TO GET SPIES INTO RUSSIA...  THE PHONE CALL COULD BE CIA (HUNT OR PHILLIPS EVEN) POINTING THE TRAIL IN ANOTHER DIRECTION...  A LITTLE BIT OF TRUTH AND A WHOLE LOT OF LYING....  I DON'T SEE HOW EKDAHL CAN SEE BOTH BOYS - IF THE SAN SABA PHOTOS ARE ACTUAL HARVEY MAYBE (WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE)...  I DON'T KNOW WHY PIC LIES ABOUT SAN SABA SINCE IT WAS HE WHO TOOK THE PHOTOS. 

BTW - AS I RESEARCH FBI, COMMUNISM AND THE TIME PERIOD THERE ARE MANY, MANY NAMES THAT POP UP - THE FBI WAS ALL ABOUT COMMUNISM IN THE 50'S AND 60'S AND HAD INFORMANTS EVERYWHERE - IF OSWALD CAME OUT OF A COMMUNIST PLAN (TO DO WHAT EXACTLY?) THE FBI WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT.  AS MORE TIME PASSES I SEE THIS AS A RED HERRING...  WHAT THE CALLER WOULD HAVE NEEDED TO KNOW DOESN'T SEEM POSSIBLE

THE MENTION OF ONLY A SINGLE BOY LIVING AT SAN SABA DURING THE SUMMER OF 1947 CONFLICTS WITH THE FACT THEY LIVED AT 1505 8TH AND BOTH ROBERT AND JOHN COME HOME FROM CHAMBERLAIN IN AUGUST 1947.  I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THE SWITCH WAS DONE AFTER NYC - NOT BEFORE.  

This means that the name "Oswald" was given to the mysterious little Hungarian boy by 1947, if not by 1945. This means our woman caller knew him then. After the summer of 1947, our little "Oswald" was bopping around down south with the Marguerite imposter. 

(It's either that, or our "Oswald" was really named Oswald all along, and not only did he (somewhat) bear a physical resemblance to the real Lee Oswald, but he also had the same birth name?

No. In the real universe, that is not a possibility worth pursuing. Relying on such coincidences to explain the assassination of the president is beneath serious discussion . . .)

6.Thanks in part to John Butler's work, we can now say with certainty that little John Gardos was NOT our "Oswald" (Harvey.)   AGREED   If the caller was right that little "Oswald's" father and uncle were Hungarians in Yorkville (and I think that it is very likely that little "Oswald" did live there for a bit, although I agree the FBI report only implies that and does not explicitly state that), then it is entirely plausible to me that the Yorkville Hungarian community would have been abuzz in the 1940's about Emil Gardos's deportation.(Regardless of whether the woman caller believed that Emil Gardos was "Oswald's" father, or not.)

A older Yorkville Hungarian woman such as John Pic's mother-in-law, Margaret Fuhrman,  would be an excellent candidate for our mysterious woman caller in 1963. She may well have been vaguely aware of the "Harvey" project by 1952/53, and she plausibly could have assumed (wrongly) that "Oswald" was the biological son of Emil Gardos back in the mid '40's, before "Oswald" was placed with "Marguerite."   PIC'S WIFE IS A GOOD CANDIDATE AS WELL, ESPECIALLY IF SHE LEARNS SOME OF THE FACTS ALONG THE WAY YET THE CALLER IS SIAD TO HAVE BEEN A MORE MATURE WOMAN - MRS FUHRMAN IS A GREAT CANDIDATE...  BUT THAT WOULD ALSO MEAN JOHN EDWARD WOULD HAVE BEEN AROUND THE 2 YEARS THEY WERE IN NYC... AND HE SEES HIS REAL MOTHER... BUT STOPS SEEING LEE HARVEY

Margaret Fuhrman would have had no specific knowledge about the missions in which the dual "Oswald" identities were used, and therefore might well have guessed wrong in a phone call in 1963, but she was right in her belief that the plot involved people once connected to the Yorkville Hungarian community. According to John Pic's sworn testimony, Margaret Pic and her husband had been living in Yorkville "a good many years" and maybe since the birth of their eldest daughter in 1924.

If Margaret Fuhrman was indeed the mysterious woman caller in 1963, then that would explain the absolutely bizarre series of questions posed to John Pic by WC attorney Albert Jenner at the beginning of Pic's testimony:

 Mr. JENNER. Give the full name of your wife including her married name, children, if any, ages and names and where born.

Mr. PIC. My wife’s maiden name is Margaret Dorothy Fuhrman. My eldest is John Edward Pic, Jr., 14 May, 1952. My daughter, Janet Ann Pic, 18 October 1954; James Michael Pic, 22 February 1960.

Mr. JENNER. Your wife Margaret is-she was born where?

Mr. PIC. New York City, sir.

Mr. JENNER. Her parents are native Americans as well as she?

Mr. PIC. No, sir; they are not.

Mr. JENNER. What do you know of them?

Mr. PIC. Her father died; I never met the man while we were going together. Her mother and father were separated. Her mother was born in Hungary, I think. Her father was also sir.

Mr. JENNER. What do you understand as to when they came to this country?

Mr. PIC. I have never inquired. It has probably been mentioned but I have forgotten.

Mr. JENNER. Was it your impression they had been here a good many years?

Mr. Pic. Yes, sir; they have seven children. The eldest being in her forties, I am pretty sure.

Mr. JENNER. I see. When you met your wife she was living with her mother?

Mr. PIC. Yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER. Where?

Mr. PIC. 325 East 92d Street, New York City.

Mr. JENNER And you were at that time in the service?

Mr. PIC. Yes, sir; U.S. Coast Guard, assigned to U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Rockaway.

I THINK IT TERRIBLY IMPORTANT THAT WE AGREE ON A PURPOSE FOR THE COMMUNISTS TO CREATE AN OSWALD DOUBLE. UNLESS IT WAS IN SERVICE OF THE US INTELLIGENCE SERVICES.  THE ONLY TIME THIS WOULD OCCUR IS 1953 WHEN HARVEY LEAVES IN JUNE/JULY WHILE LEE'S MOM WORKS IN NYC UNTIL DEC WHEN THEY LEAVE FOR NEW ORLEANS AND LEE ENTERS BEAUREGARD IN JANUARY 1954.  THE INCORRECT SCHOOL RECORD IS FOR THE SPRING 52-53 SEMESTER WHICH STATES HE ATTENDS 109 DAYS OF SCHOOL FROM MARCH 23 TO JUNE 23 WHILE SPENDING OVER 2 WEEKS AT YOUTH HOUSE IN APRIL/MAY.

THIS IS 3 VERSIONS OF WHAT SHOULD BE 1 RECORD STARTING WITH THE ONE IN THE MIDDLE... EVERYTHING WOULD/SHOULD HAVE BEEN ADDED TO THAT ONE.  THE ONE ON THE RIGHT IS NOT EVEN THE SAME FORM AS THE MIDDLE (AND ON THE LEFT)   THIS CHILD REMAINS IN THE "X" OR BRONX BURROUGH THE ENTIRE TIME - AND EVEN IF NOT, WHY HAVE A SPACE FOR BURROUGH IF THERE ISN'T THE POSSIBILITY IT CAN CHANGE...  THERE WERE 4 PS44 SCHOOLS AND 2 OR 3 PS 117'S IN THE EARLY 50'S.

SO... WE HAVE 2 PHOTOS OF CARS IN BENBROOK - ON IS MARGUERITE AND EDWIN IN FRONT OF A 1938 BUICK (HORIZONTAL GRILL SPOKES)
THE PIC PHOTOS OF BLACKIE THE DOG, A CHILD AND A WOMAN NEXT TO A CAR PARKED ON CEMENT STRIPS IS A 1937/38 PLYMOUTH (VERTICAL GRILL SPOKES) WHICH PIC CLAIMS HE TOOK OR AT LEAST WROTE "1949" ON. IN '49 THEY LIVE ON EWING AND JOHN IS IN 11TH GRADE...  GEORGIA BELL CLAIMS SHE NEVER SAW ANYONE OTHER THAN THE SHORT FAT MARGE AND A SON FROM THE SUMMER OF '47 THRU THANKSGIVING.  THEY DISAPPEAR AFTER THAT - I AM GUESS THEY ARE AT 2220 THOMAS SINCE ROBERT OSWALD IS LISTED IN 10TH GRADE AT ARLINGTON HEIGHTS HIGH SCHOOL AFTER GRADUATING FROM STRIPLING.... WHILE "HARVEY OSWALD" IS IN 4TH AT RIDGLEA ELEMENTARY...  THE TARRANT COUNTY CARD SHOWS HARVEY WITH A 10-19-39 BDAY

ROBERT OSWALD IS LISTED AS ROBERT'S PARENT/GUARDIAN WHILE YOU SEE WHAT HARVEY'S PARENT IS....   IF THERE IS A LEE OSWALD IN FT WORTH, HE IS NOT LISTED

BTW - THE BDAY SHOULD BE 10-18-39.... NOT 19.  HIS BDAY FOR 48-49 IS LISTED AS 7-9-39 WHEN THE DATE USED WAS 7-19-39 SO LEE COULD GET INTO SCHOOL IN 1945

OK - Facts and Speculation....   Emil could have simply been the man paying the FATHER and UNCLE...
It seems to me quite possible the big deal reason for hiding this away had more to do with the US CITIZEN GRACE BLAIR GARDOS than with Emil  (see below)*

Using these FACTS... what can be concluded about this woman and her call in regards to: Oswald, the Father/Uncle, a "brother-in-law", Wisconsin and Yorkville?

FACTS

·         Jack D Tippit is a married cartoonist in Westport CT

·         Call was about 11:30 am on “INSTANT DATE” – what does that mean?

·         Caller was a woman with an accent

·         Asked if Tippit related to Dallas Tippit

·         Mrs. T says “distantly related” to officer and asked her name

·         Could not give name – afraid of being killed

·         Caller was from NY

·         Caller had come “here” to avoid being traced (knows enough about long distance and local calls)

·         Caller requests nothing be said TO THE PRESS about a “woman calling” – they would know and kill her

(This not saying anything about the call to the PRESS thing… with the info offered what would the caller be assuming? – they would just sit on the info or call the FBI instead?)

·         Knows Oswald’s Father and Uncle WERE Hungarian Communists

·         Caller says Father and Uncle lived at 77^th and 2^nd in Yorkville. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkville,_Manhattan#/map/0 Yorkville slightly north
S: East 79^th / E: FDR Drive / N: 96^th / W: 3^rd Ave

·         Both unemployed – paid by the Communists to do Communist activities
(Helping to form Unions was primary activity)

·         Caller offers the name EMILE KARDOS (sic) Emil & Grace Gardos

·         Caller focuses on the term “Brother-in-law” repeating it but not defining it

·         Mrs. Tippit tries to find out who the brother-in-law is but woman just repeats the phrase

·         Caller says GARDOS head of the Communists

·         Caller says this NY Group has “charts and maps”

·         Caller mentions WEINSTOCK, editor of Worker’s World

·         Caller says group in NY plans to take over Government

·         Caller says “they” will deny it

·         Caller hangs up

·         FBI New Haven has no knowledge re: Father/Uncle residence or associates

SPECULATION
 

·         Call sounded local

·         Austrian/Germen and/or Spanish

·         Woman sounded mature

·         Mrs. Tippit mentions Norwalk Hour article about Tippit relatives

https://archive.org/stream/FBI-Operation-Solo/100-HQ-428091-Serial5842-5915_djvu.txt  

*TO : DIRECTOR, FBI (100-428091)

FROM: SAC, CHICAGO (134-46 Sub

Enclosed herewith for the Bureau are the original and three copies and f b$ New York one copy of a letterhead memorandum entitled, t !2BCF» W I ¥^r UNITED STATES CITIZEN RESIDING IN BUDAPEST, ^m M ^ ^ L^.

The information appearing in the enclosed letter-head memorandum was orally furnished on 10/15 and 18/66 by CG 5824rS* to SAs WALTER A. BQYLE. and RICHARD W, HANSEN

The enclosed letterhead memorandum is classified ? since unauthorized disclosure of the information set forth therein could reasonably Result in the identification of this source who is furnishing - information on the highest levels concerning the international communist movement, and thus adversely affecting the national, security In order to further protect the identity of this source, the enclosed Letterhead memorandum has been shown as being prepared at Washington, D.C.

(|?Bureau (Eqc>- 4) (RM)

1-New York <7100^134637) (Enc.^ 1) (Info) (RH)

RWH-MD17

================
In connection with the information set forth in the enclosed letterhead memorandum, CG 5824-S* advised that in regard to the negotiations concerning GRACE GARDOS* release, he had on HALUs instructions submitted a letter to the Central Committee of the Hungarian Socialist Workers Party (HS1VP) which was delivered to Z0LTA1T KOMOCSIN. In this letter it was noted that the CP, USA Was aware of problems in Hungary regarding hard currency and for this reason, i,£ necessary, was willing to lay out the money itself to cover GARDOS ' return to the U.S. Within an hour of the time this letter had been delivered, a response. " had come Tsack from the Central Committee of the HSWP authorizing GARDOS 1 release. The HSWP was, according to CG 582.4rS*, a little disturbed at HALL ' s intimation that "cheapness" and lack of funds on the part of the Hungarians had been, the cause for the long delay in handling this matter.

In Reply, Please Refer to File No. _______

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION  Washington, D. C.  October 24, 1966

GRACE GARDOS, UNITED STATES CITIZEN RESIDING IN BUDAPEST, HUNGARY. . .

A source, who has furnished reliable information in the past, during October, 1966, advised as follows;

In September, 1966, the Communist Party, USA (CP, USA) , through the cooperation of Zoltan Komocsin, a member of the Political Bureau, Central Committee, Hungarian Socialist Workers Party (HSWP) , made arrangements for Grace Gardos to be given permission. to return to the United States in order that she might work for the CP, USA in New York City » New York. Grace Gardos is a United States citizen who had gone to Hungary a number of years ago when her husband voluntarily accepted deportation from the United States.

Up to the present time, Grace Gardos has been acting as correspondent for "The Worker, " United States East Coast communist newspaper in Budapest . Her husband Emil is living in Budapest in a retired jstatus and on pension, / /frWs/^/  Gardos was scheduled to leave Budapest, Hungary, for the United States on approximately October 15, 1966, and was expected to arrive in the United States sometime around October 18, 1966.

In regard to Grace Gardos, it has been learned that she had not been particularly happy with her status in Hungary and there may be intent on her part at this time never to return to that country. This possible intent on the part of Gardos was not revealed by the CP, USA to the HSWP during negotiations with them. There was also some indication that Gardos, once she has returned to the United States, may make efforts for her son, who also resides in Budapest, to come to the United, States for possible permanent residence.

20 hours ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

So, since "Oswald"/Harvey was NOT the biological son of Emil Gardos, then there is only one other possibility: Emil and Grace Gardos (and their real son, John) were his caretakers for a bit in Yorkville in the 1940's. The woman caller saw them together and made the natural (but wrong) assumption that our little boy "Oswald"/Harvey was their other son.

Paul...

Take a moment and reread the FBI report...  there are 2 distinct parts being referenced here...

1. The man Ruby killed had a father and an uncle who were Hungarian Communists & THESE MEN lived at 77th and 2nd (I think the FBI changed this too... Yorkville is much more a real community at 87th and 2nd rather than 77th..
2. The call BEGINS TO SPEAK DIFFERENTLY... and mentions Emil, something about a brother-in-law, and WEINSTOCK. 

THE WOMAN SAID SHE KNEW OSWALD’S FATHER AND UNCLE WHO
WERE HUNGARIANS AND COMMUNISTS. THE WOMAN CONTINUED THAT
OSWALD’S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND (87^th?)
AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE
UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE
TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.
THE WOMAN THEN BEGAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY, DISJOINTEDLY,
AND NERVOUSLY. SHE STATED SHE HAD TWO NAMES TO GIVE AND
MENTIONED THE NAME EMILE KARDOS (GARDOS) AND SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A
BROTHER IN LAW.

THE WOMAN KEPT REPEATING THE WORD BROTHER IN LAW

Where in this report do you see that EMILE KARDOS = OSWALD'S FATHER? or UNCLE?
... or that "FATHER" and "UNCLE" are related (many ways to have a father and uncle from different families)
... or that "UNCLE" is connected to "brother-in-law"...
WE are making these connections, not the report.   

There were MANY crackpot calls/reports written up by the FBI in the WCR and not hidden for 30 years, so unless this is one great subterfuge creating an amazingly strong red herring there ought to be some significance to this call beyond a crazy person calling....

Point being though, there are no specific connections being made in this report
Mrs. Tippit is the source for the idea the caller sees the JFK/Oswald report in the Norwalk Hour... but I don't see how that's possible from NYC... So how else could the caller have found the Norwalk Tippits?

Simply because SHE WAS AFRAID they may know her by name or know it was her if a "woman called the Tippits" again does not mean WE would know her name.  I mean what if this involved the KEATINGS who have generations of women named Margaret Keating...  and we can't overlook PIC's wife/mother's family are from Hungary living in Yorkville, or Robert's wife from simply being around and in the know....

We don't know about ANY connection other than Emil and Fred being Communists and related as brothers-in-law.

What do you suppose makes OSWALD stand out so much in this woman's mind that she would recognize a man as the boy she knew - or does she already know since NYC would have been filled with news about JFK and Oswald... and Oswald is a name that frightens her... (or at least the father and uncle's names do)

The "Group in NY plans to take over the government" reminds me of the FDR coup with the bankers and wall street captains... but that's in the 30's.
I doubt this "group" disappears.... and this is the same group which helped finance the Bolshevik Revolution (None Dare Call It Conspiracy) so supporting communism at home to sow seeds of chaos in order to maintain control is really not so far fetched....

Fresh sheet of BLANK paper ------ list the FACTS found in that report versus the speculation...  we can go from there

DJ 

(edit: the caller does not include little Oswald in her mention of where Father and Uncle lived... in Yorkville.  In fact, the report makes it sound as if Little Oswald was not there at all)

58 minutes ago, John Kowalski said:

David:

Should this not also include Harvey's mother?

Be even more intriguing if they were mother and son....  I don’t see that here...

But yes indeed John, that woman is key, yet the records of her time is virtually impossible to Authenticate. 
We do know her testimony about her own life events is full of conflict.  That she was not the wife of Ekdahl or any Oswald.

You think She did her patriotic duty and got screwed like Harvey?

Seems you’re jumping to conclusions John....

One pulled thread does not lead to Hungary... does not change where Pic lived, where the child and mom stayed, and the Hungarian connections.

I suggest we spend a little time on WHEN Harvey comes into existence and WHERE.

The boy in the San Saba car, dog, Marge photos is Lee.  Pic took them, so for him to deny knowledge of San Saba is strange.

I see Lee and mom going to NY and Harvey and Caretaker leaving after the bizarre situation with housekeeper Louise Robertson.

The idea of the NY Gardos’ caring for foster children brought over from Hungary is interesting and would be a great cover for CIA related activity in that vein.

Maybe Ekdahl is the dividing line... idk.  Maybe the trip to Boston...  Just seems the WC completely screwed up 1945, 46, 47 on purpose with regards to John Edward and Robert and where the Oswald’s/Ekdahl’s were and who bought which house....  2220 Thomas plays into this as well.

Harvey spoke Russian AND English meaning he was raised on one or the other and learned one of them... many see Harvey’s writing and the way he speaks only to conclude English was a 2nd language.  If he was raised speaking Russian and then stopped for a while, picking it up at classes in the Marines would be like riding a bicycle.....

Anyway, I don’t get the impression John knew the caretaker or Harvey in NY, that he visited his real mom.  The “break” between Lee and John seems abrupt and out of place... John Edward’s contribution?

I believe Audacity - a great free sound editor may be of some help....  

If someone got me the digital files I can take a crack at it...

DJ

On 12/21/2019 at 8:20 AM, Paul Jolliffe said:

David,

WC Exhibit 1874 is evidence that the real Marguerite and little Lee did indeed live at 4801 Victor Street in Dallas in 1944 and 1945. I suspect they were there until Marguerite moved to Fort Worth in October of 1945. Lee, who apparently had never attended any school before, then started at Benbrook Elementary on October 31, 1945, which would seem to square with a family trip to Boston and Mississippi in September of 1945, as John Pic, Jr. said. What makes you suspect they were not living on Victor in 1944 and 1945?

Not the Victor street address I have a problem with Paul...  John E testifies that in the summer of '45 they "STAYED IN DALLAS" (see below image for quoted Q&A)

Mr. JENNER - Did he then move into the 4801 Victor Place?
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; she took a short honeymoon for a day or two and came back and moved in.
Mr. JENNER - In the summer of 1945 did you and Robert continue on at--through that summer in Dallas?
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER - That following September, however, you transferred to some other school; did you not?
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; and we were aware of this school before the school session ended in 1945. I knew before we left Davy Crockett we were going.
Mr. JENNER - What was the name of that?
Mr. PIC - In September 1945, sir, Robert and I entered Chamberlain-Hunt Academy, military school for boys, Port Gibson, Miss.

John wrote that the Victor house is sold June 29, 1945....  If they stayed in Dallas thru September and then late registered Lee...

Where did they stay in Dallas? H&L doesn't say... furthermore it is MARGUERITE EKDAHL listed in February 1946 for the mastoidectomy 
yet it is MARGARET OSWALD with a Mr. "ALLEN" who is involved in July 1948... Lee also being from BENBROOK.

(The Bell FBI report on the right is in direct contradiction to what BELL says she said.  She knew it was 1947 as the had just finished building their house when a woman and her son moved into 101 San Saba, across the street) in 1948 they moved from 8th street to Willing st and finally to 7408 Ewing...  I think it's possible that EKDAHL OWNED 7408 EWING all along.... but I need to look further

DJ

"Allen 5" is dated Oct 1945 from the WORTH HOTEL telling Chamberlain-Hunt their new address on GRANDBURY (sic) Rd Route 5...

I checked and the writing appears the same as other, earlier docs with her signature...  

Does this letter/note look like it had been folded and mailed? Not to me it doesn't....  The TARRANT COUNTY books on students for Ft Worth does not show any OSWALDS for either the 44-45 year or 45-46....

in 1947-48 we get that Nancy Lee and HARVEY with Mrs. Ekdahl...

On 12/21/2019 at 8:20 AM, Paul Jolliffe said:

In any event, these movements would seem to be of the real Lee Oswald, his real brothers, the real Marguerite and her husband, Edwin A. Ekdahl.

One minor question: when Marguerite wrote that Robert had last attended Crockett Elementary in Dallas, surely it could not have been located 16. 2 miles away from 4801 Victor in 1945, could it? (Today's Crockett is 16.2 miles away, according to Google Maps.) 

David Crockett School (replaced by Ignacio Zaragoza Elementary in 1990; Ignacio is a 5 min walk from Victor... yet notice there is no 4801 Victor... 4809 is the last house on that street with the corner house facing N. PRAIRIE with a driveway onto N. PRAIRIE, the next block is 4700.... 
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7960598,-96.7672961,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s97-hA67ZHmjL23rxDsqoyQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en   

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1874.pdf

What I don't understand is why a thrice-married woman, fresh off a bitter divorce in which she successfully petitioned the judge to "restore" her name (Marguerite C. Oswald) to her, would still use the name "Ekdahl" as late as 1949.