David Josephs
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Posts posted by David Josephs
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14 hours ago, Stephanie Goldberg said:
So - question.
In what might be a 2018 release, there's a letter written from the HSCA to the CIA requesting information on various people. The list has some 59 people of all backgrounds, including Mrs. Earle Cabell. (Not sure what the CIA would have had on her?)
Anyway, several people have an FBI number listed in their little brief descriptive blurb. Would that be the number of their FBI file? Those people listed as such are
17 - Robert E (Bob) Edwards
23 - Charles Douglas Givens
28 - James Earl Jarman
31 - Billy Nolan Lovelady
45 - James Elbert Romack
47 - Arnold Rowland
49 - Willam H Shelley
https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2018/docid-32272575.pdf
Hi Stephanie - what gives you the impression they are "FBI" numbers???
Looks to me as if they are simply in numerical order.... ????
All the numbers match the numbers in the linked report.... in which every person named has a ascending number...
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Yeah, I'm just not done with this yet....
Inset in the following graphic ought to be enough proof to anyone that not only do photographs lie, they cannot be used to measure much of anything.
Comparing those photos would be like comparing the photos at the bottom right... EXCEPT, the distances and focal length SHOULD be almost identical...
How can the same man have a 9 and 12.5 inch head in virtually the same photo? He can't... one or the other has been "arranged" to make a 5'11" Lee Oswald appear to only be 5'9"
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12 hours ago, John Kozlowski said:
I agree with everything you wrote but after reading David’s piece at K&K if there was a women with Oswald in Jackson who could it have been? Parts of her story I want to believe and I did for a while after I seen her on TMWKK but there is no real evidence to back it up. Just another well read story teller like James Files it seems to me.
We have the same type of problem as the alternate Oswalds travel thru southern Texas......
Couple important points: Audrey would not be born until Oct 20th... Marina was 37 weeks pregnant... (and surprisingly we NEVER see a pregnant Marina in a single photo) and even Ozzie wouldn't drag a woman like that around TX.... Ozzie didn't drive.... didn't have a license.... Marina DID speak English very well... and then there is the old saying...
Never believe anything unless the government denies it.
* . . . It was inconceivable to us that someone would have been impersonating Oswald -- for what purpose, you see?*
-- CIA's *John Scelso* (John Whitten) to Michael Goldsmith of the HSCA
Among the myriad of Oswald sighting reports which do not fit in with the official timeline handed down by the Warren Commission is one which actually hit the Associated Press wire on November 28, 1963. Just days after being interviewed by the FBI, a radio station manager in Alice, Texas, told the AP that Oswald on the afternoon of Friday, October 4, had driven up to the station in a battered 1953 model car to inquire about a job. It also turns out that our job seeker had appeared at the station the previous evening, on Thursday, October 3, at about 6 p.m., and was told he needed to return the next day to speak to the manager. (1) Upon returning on Friday, Oswald was said to have left a woman and a two-year old girl in the car and refused an offer to bring them inside the station with the explanation that, *She doesn't speak any English.*
Remembering that the boys at the Alice radio station sent their Oswald north on Highway 281 toward Pleasanton, we next find that the owner of radio station KBOP in Pleasanton, Dr. Ben Parker, recalled that sometime in the afternoon one day in early October, a man whose name he could not recall came in and said that he was driving through Pleasanton looking for a job. The man was described by Parker as about 5'7" or 5'8" and in his mid twenties with sandy hair and of a *rather dirty appearance.* He told the FBI on November 26 that he had seen Oswald on TV and thought this man could have been Oswald. Parker did not have a job for this fellow and did not see the car to notice if anyone else was in it. Parker's wife also remembered getting a phone call from the man before he stopped by the station.
Freer, Texas
On November 28, the owner of the B. F. Cafe in Freer called and advised the FBI that a waitress (whose name remains redacted) had seen Oswald in Freer on October 3. In her November 29 FBI interview, the waitress said that at 6:30 or 7 pm on Thursday, October 3, a man she thought was identical to Oswald, a woman resembling Marina, one child age 2-4, and one small baby estimated to be two weeks old came into the cafe.
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52 minutes ago, John Kozlowski said:
I take that back. The page didn’t fully load. I thought it was you who wrote that and not Ed Haslam. I was pretty confused there for a minute.
Thx John... I went looking as I did not remember ever putting it THAT way...
Ed, on the other hand, drank the Kool-Aid.
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13 hours ago, John Kozlowski said:
Do you believe her full story to be true including everything that happened to her afterwards?
While there may “truths” mixed in, JVB has crafted a fine fiction Novel, with all the artist’s freedom allowed.
Anna Lewis, her own friend and while in the room blows up her “Lee & Me” timeline by claiming they are double dating While Marina is having a baby in Minsk....
So, no John, little if any of the details attached to the major events are true. They be just what Judy wants them to be...
purely entertaining to those so much less brilliant than she, but with sight into her she refuses to knowledge...
Answer ur Q?
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7 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said:
Hey Dave could you re-upload? Forbidden pops up. Please and thanks!
https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/poking-more-holes-in-judyth-baker
try this one... or at the bottom of the pdf window you can click a link for full page text
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28 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:
David - I’m not quoting your post, but I read it and think you are spot on about the relationship between CIA and Military.
Appreciated Paul...
Creating these agreed upon frames of reference is extremely important in constructing theories around what happened.
The resources of the CIA paled in comparison to the Military who they would run to first for all their needs (that is until black money, drug money, filled the coffers and the CIA became more and more Rogue... imho
I only thru Tzu in there to show how for thousands of years the Military, especially run by intelligently trained leaders knew the value of the CIA's primary activity... Porting that to initiating public policy thru actions like assassination and intimidation was - again imo - taken from the GLADIO playbook from which so many of the top CIA officials come...
...and part of the reign of terror begun by Allen Dulles
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15 hours ago, Chuck Schwartz said:
David, the CIA did not order the military to kill JFK.
Agreed... I don't think that's wrote or said that Chuck.... Quite the opposite... the MILITARY RAN THE SHOW.... especially the CIA.
The CIA was/is akin to the Doberman out front barking and snarling with no regard for policy.
The Military held the leash, determined o how long the chain should extend, who to scare, who to kill, who to target....I'm sorry Chuck - I simply cannot understand how people see the CIA as some separate entity from the Military... The CIA may be the most ingenious smoke-screen cover-story for the activities of the Military we've ever known.
Chia Lin says that an army without spies is like a man with ears or eyes. (Note - doesn't say "country" or "homeland" without spies.... but ARMIES.)
The Military Industrial Congressional Complex Eisenhower feared made and/or owned the lease, the dog, his food, his replacement, his master on the front lines
and very likely all the way up to the White House.Let's at least agree that in many if not most cases the people in the CIA had already spent time in the military and had attained higher than usual rankings.
Once they were no longer "military" but acting for THE AGENCY, their ability to do so much more without oversight mushrooms out of control.The AGENCY was involved with information gathering outside the USA yet as we all know, CIA assets (as well as FBI, ONI, MID and other 3-letter agencies) permeated all walks of life and all forms of employment... secretaries, mail-room employees, trash collectors... anyone who may have access to info, codes, keys, etc....
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SUN TZU
All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
The Use of Spies
Sun Tzu said: Raising a host of a hundred thousand men and marching them great distances entails heavy loss on the people and a drain on the resources of the State. The daily expenditure will amount to a thousand ounces of silver. [1]There will be commotion at home and abroad, and men will drop down exhausted on the highways. [2] As many as seven hundred thousand families will be impeded in their labor. [3]
Hostile armies may face each other for years, striving for the victory which is decided in a single day. This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, [4] is the height of inhumanity. [5]
One who acts thus is no leader of men, no present help to his sovereign, no master of victory. [6]
Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond the reach of ordinary men, is FOREKNOWLEDGE. [7]
Now this foreknowledge cannot be elicited from spirits; it cannot be obtained inductively from experience, [8] nor by any deductive calculation. [9]
Knowledge of the enemy's dispositions can only be obtained from other men. [10]
Hence the use of spies, of whom there are five classes: (1) Local spies; (2) inward spies; (3) converted spies; (4) doomed spies; (5) surviving spies.
When these five kinds of spy are all at work, none can discover the secret system. This is called "divine manipulation of the threads." It is the sovereign's most precious faculty. [11]
Having LOCAL SPIES means employing the services of the inhabitants of a district. [12]
Having INWARD SPIES, making use of officials of the enemy. [13]
Having CONVERTED SPIES, getting hold of the enemy's spies and using them for our own purposes. [14]
Having DOOMED SPIES, doing certain things openly for purposes of deception, and allowing our spies to know of them and report them to the enemy. [15]
SURVIVING SPIES, finally, are those who bring back news from the enemy's camp. [16]
Hence it is that which none in the whole army are more intimate relations to be maintained than with spies. [17] None should be more liberally rewarded. In no other business should greater secrecy be preserved. [18]
Spies cannot be usefully employed without a certain intuitive sagacity. [19]
They cannot be properly managed without benevolence and straightforwardness. [20]
Without subtle ingenuity of mind, one cannot make certain of the truth of their reports. [21]
Be subtle! be subtle! and use your spies for every kind of business. [22]
If a secret piece of news is divulged by a spy before the time is ripe, he must be put to death together with the man to whom the secret was told. [23]
Whether the object be to crush an army, to storm a city, or to assassinate an individual, it is always necessary to begin by finding out the names of the attendants, the aides-de- camp, [24] and door-keepers and sentries of the general in command. Our spies must be commissioned to ascertain these. [25]
The enemy's spies who have come to spy on us must be sought out, tempted with bribes, led away and comfortably housed. Thus they will become converted spies and available for our service.
It is through the information brought by the converted spy that we are able to acquire and employ local and inward spies. [26]
It is owing to his information, again, that we can cause the doomed spy to carry false tidings to the enemy. [27]
Lastly, it is by his information that the surviving spy can be used on appointed occasions.
The end and aim of spying in all its five varieties is knowledge of the enemy; and this knowledge can only be derived, in the first instance, from the converted spy. [28] Hence it is essential that the converted spy be treated with the utmost liberality.
Of old, the rise of the Yin dynasty [29] was due to I Chih [30] who had served under the Hsia. Likewise, the rise of the Chou dynasty was due to Lu Ya [31] who had served under the Yin. [32]
Hence it is only the enlightened ruler and the wise general who will use the highest intelligence of the army for purposes of spying and thereby they achieve great results. [33] Spies are a most important element in water, because on them depends an army's ability to move. [34]
[1] Cf. II. ss. ss. 1, 13, 14.
[2] Cf. TAO TE CHING, ch. 30: "Where troops have been quartered, brambles and thorns spring up. Chang Yu has the note: "We may be reminded of the saying: 'On serious ground, gather in plunder.' Why then should carriage and transportation cause exhaustion on the highways?-The answer is, that not victuals alone, but all sorts of munitions of war have to be conveyed to the army. Besides, the injunction to 'forage on the enemy' only means that when an army is deeply engaged in hostile territory, scarcity of food must be provided against. Hence, without being solely dependent on the enemy for corn, we must forage in order that there may be an uninterrupted flow of supplies. Then, again, there are places like salt deserts where provisions being unobtainable, supplies from home cannot be dispensed with."
[3] Mei Yao-ch`en says: "Men will be lacking at the plough- tail." The allusion is to the system of dividing land into nine parts, each consisting of about 15 acres, the plot in the center being cultivated on behalf of the State by the tenants of the other eight. It was here also, so Tu Mu tells us, that their cottages were built and a well sunk, to be used by all in common. [See II. ss. 12, note.] In time of war, one of the families had to serve in the army, while the other seven contributed to its support. Thus, by a levy of 100,000 men (reckoning one able- bodied soldier to each family) the husbandry of 700,000 families would be affected.
[4] "For spies" is of course the meaning, though it would spoil the effect of this curiously elaborate exordium if spies were actually mentioned at this point.
[5] Sun Tzu's agreement is certainly ingenious. He begins by adverting to the frightful misery and vast expenditure of blood and treasure which war always brings in its train. Now, unless you are kept informed of the enemy's condition, and are ready to strike at the right moment, a war may drag on for years. The only way to get this information is to employ spies, and it is impossible to obtain trustworthy spies unless they are properly paid for their services. But it is surely false economy to grudge a comparatively trifling amount for this purpose, when every day that the war lasts eats up an incalculably greater sum. This grievous burden falls on the shoulders of the poor, and hence Sun Tzu concludes that to neglect the use of spies is nothing less than a crime against humanity.
[6] This idea, that the true object of war is peace, has its root in the national temperament of the Chinese. Even so far back as 597 B.C., these memorable words were uttered by Prince Chuang of the Ch`u State: "The [Chinese] character for 'prowess' is made up of [the characters for] 'to stay' and 'a spear' (cessation of hostilities). Military prowess is seen in the repression of cruelty, the calling in of weapons, the preservation of the appointment of Heaven, the firm establishment of merit, the bestowal of happiness on the people, putting harmony between the princes, the diffusion of wealth."
[7] That is, knowledge of the enemy's dispositions, and what he means to do.
[8] Tu Mu's note is: "[knowledge of the enemy] cannot be gained by reasoning from other analogous cases."
[9] Li Ch`uan says: "Quantities like length, breadth, distance and magnitude, are susceptible of exact mathematical determination; human actions cannot be so calculated."
[10] Mei Yao-ch`en has rather an interesting note: "Knowledge of the spirit-world is to be obtained by divination; information in natural science may be sought by inductive reasoning; the laws of the universe can be verified by mathematical calculation: but the dispositions of an enemy are ascertainable through spies and spies alone."
[11] Cromwell, one of the greatest and most practical of all cavalry leaders, had officers styled 'scout masters,' whose business it was to collect all possible information regarding the enemy, through scouts and spies, etc., and much of his success in war was traceable to the previous knowledge of the enemy's moves thus gained." ["Aids to Scouting," p. 2.]
[12] Tu Mu says: "In the enemy's country, win people over by kind treatment, and use them as spies."
[13] Tu Mu enumerates the following classes as likely to do good service in this respect: "Worthy men who have been degraded from office, criminals who have undergone punishment; also, favorite concubines who are greedy for gold, men who are aggrieved at being in subordinate positions, or who have been passed over in the distribution of posts, others who are anxious that their side should be defeated in order that they may have a chance of displaying their ability and talents, fickle turncoats who always want to have a foot in each boat. Officials of these several kinds," he continues, "should be secretly approached and bound to one's interests by means of rich presents. In this way you will be able to find out the state of affairs in the enemy's country, ascertain the plans that are being formed against you, and moreover disturb the harmony and create a breach between the sovereign and his ministers." The necessity for extreme caution, however, in dealing with "inward spies," appears from an historical incident related by Ho Shih: "Lo Shang, Governor of I-Chou, sent his general Wei Po to attack the rebel Li Hsiung of Shu in his stronghold at P`i. After each side had experienced a number of victories and defeats, Li Hsiung had recourse to the services of a certain P`o-t`ai, a native of Wu-tu. He began to have him whipped until the blood came, and then sent him off to Lo Shang, whom he was to delude by offering to cooperate with him from inside the city, and to give a fire signal at the right moment for making a general assault. Lo Shang, confiding in these promises, march out all his best troops, and placed Wei Po and others at their head with orders to attack at P`o-t`ai's bidding. Meanwhile, Li Hsiung's general, Li Hsiang, had prepared an ambuscade on their line of march; and P`o-t`ai, having reared long scaling-ladders against the city walls, now lighted the beacon-fire. Wei Po's men raced up on seeing the signal and began climbing the ladders as fast as they could, while others were drawn up by ropes lowered from above. More than a hundred of Lo Shang's soldiers entered the city in this way, every one of whom was forthwith beheaded. Li Hsiung then charged with all his forces, both inside and outside the city, and routed the enemy completely." [This happened in 303 A.D. I do not know where Ho Shih got the story from. It is not given in the biography of Li Hsiung or that of his father Li T`e, CHIN SHU, ch. 120, 121.]
[14] By means of heavy bribes and liberal promises detaching them from the enemy's service, and inducing them to carry back false information as well as to spy in turn on their own countrymen. On the other hand, Hsiao Shih-hsien says that we pretend not to have detected him, but contrive to let him carry away a false impression of what is going on. Several of the commentators accept this as an alternative definition; but that it is not what Sun Tzu meant is conclusively proved by his subsequent remarks about treating the converted spy generously (ss. 21 sqq.). Ho Shih notes three occasions on which converted spies were used with conspicuous success: (1) by T`ien Tan in his defense of Chi-mo (see supra, p. 90); (2) by Chao She on his march to O-yu (see p. 57); and by the wily Fan Chu in 260 B.C., when Lien P`o was conducting a defensive campaign against Ch`in. The King of Chao strongly disapproved of Lien P`o's cautious and dilatory methods, which had been unable to avert a series of minor disasters, and therefore lent a ready ear to the reports of his spies, who had secretly gone over to the enemy and were already in Fan Chu's pay. They said: "The only thing which causes Ch`in anxiety is lest Chao Kua should be made general. Lien P`o they consider an easy opponent, who is sure to be vanquished in the long run." Now this Chao Kua was a sun of the famous Chao She. From his boyhood, he had been wholly engrossed in the study of war and military matters, until at last he came to believe that there was no commander in the whole Empire who could stand against him. His father was much disquieted by this overweening conceit, and the flippancy with which he spoke of such a serious thing as war, and solemnly declared that if ever Kua was appointed general, he would bring ruin on the armies of Chao. This was the man who, in spite of earnest protests from his own mother and the veteran statesman Lin Hsiang-ju, was now sent to succeed Lien P`o. Needless to say, he proved no match for the redoubtable Po Ch`i and the great military power of Ch`in. He fell into a trap by which his army was divided into two and his communications cut; and after a desperate resistance lasting 46 days, during which the famished soldiers devoured one another, he was himself killed by an arrow, and his whole force, amounting, it is said, to 400,000 men, ruthlessly put to the sword.
[15] Tu Yu gives the best exposition of the meaning: "We ostentatiously do thing calculated to deceive our own spies, who must be led to believe that they have been unwittingly disclosed. Then, when these spies are captured in the enemy's lines, they will make an entirely false report, and the enemy will take measures accordingly, only to find that we do something quite different. The spies will thereupon be put to death." As an example of doomed spies, Ho Shih mentions the prisoners released by Pan Ch`ao in his campaign against Yarkand. (See p. 132.) He also refers to T`ang Chien, who in 630 A.D. was sent by T`ai Tsung to lull the Turkish Kahn Chieh-li into fancied security, until Li Ching was able to deliver a crushing blow against him. Chang Yu says that the Turks revenged themselves by killing T`ang Chien, but this is a mistake, for we read in both the old and the New T`ang History (ch. 58, fol. 2 and ch. 89, fol. 8 respectively) that he escaped and lived on until 656. Li I-chi played a somewhat similar part in 203 B.C., when sent by the King of Han to open peaceful negotiations with Ch`i. He has certainly more claim to be described a "doomed spy", for the king of Ch`i, being subsequently attacked without warning by Han Hsin, and infuriated by what he considered the treachery of Li I-chi, ordered the unfortunate envoy to be boiled alive.
[16] This is the ordinary class of spies, properly so called, forming a regular part of the army. Tu Mu says: "Your surviving spy must be a man of keen intellect, though in outward appearance a fool; of shabby exterior, but with a will of iron. He must be active, robust, endowed with physical strength and courage; thoroughly accustomed to all sorts of dirty work, able to endure hunger and cold, and to put up with shame and ignominy." Ho Shih tells the following story of Ta`hsi Wu of the Sui dynasty: "When he was governor of Eastern Ch`in, Shen-wu of Ch`i made a hostile movement upon Sha-yuan. The Emperor T`ai Tsu [? Kao Tsu] sent Ta-hsi Wu to spy upon the enemy. He was accompanied by two other men. All three were on horseback and wore the enemy's uniform. When it was dark, they dismounted a few hundred feet away from the enemy's camp and stealthily crept up to listen, until they succeeded in catching the passwords used in the army. Then they got on their horses again and boldly passed through the camp under the guise of night-watchmen; and more than once, happening to come across a soldier who was committing some breach of discipline, they actually stopped to give the culprit a sound cudgeling! Thus they managed to return with the fullest possible information about the enemy's dispositions, and received warm commendation from the Emperor, who in consequence of their report was able to inflict a severe defeat on his adversary."
[17] Tu Mu and Mei Yao-ch`en point out that the spy is privileged to enter even the general's private sleeping-tent.
[18] Tu Mu gives a graphic touch: all communication with spies should be carried "mouth-to-ear." The following remarks on spies may be quoted from Turenne, who made perhaps larger use of them than any previous commander: "Spies are attached to those who give them most, he who pays them ill is never served. They should never be known to anybody; nor should they know one another. When they propose anything very material, secure their persons, or have in your possession their wives and children as hostages for their fidelity. Never communicate anything to them but what is absolutely necessary that they should know. ["Marshal Turenne," p. 311.]
[19] Mei Yao-ch`en says: "In order to use them, one must know fact from falsehood, and be able to discriminate between honesty and double-dealing." Wang Hsi in a different interpretation thinks more along the lines of "intuitive perception" and "practical intelligence." Tu Mu strangely refers these attributes to the spies themselves: "Before using spies we must assure ourselves as to their integrity of character and the extent of their experience and skill." But he continues: "A brazen face and a crafty disposition are more dangerous than mountains or rivers; it takes a man of genius to penetrate such." So that we are left in some doubt as to his real opinion on the passage."
[20] Chang Yu says: "When you have attracted them by substantial offers, you must treat them with absolute sincerity; then they will work for you with all their might."
[21] Mei Yao-ch`en says: "Be on your guard against the possibility of spies going over to the service of the enemy."
[22] Cf. VI. ss. 9.
[23] Word for word, the translation here is: "If spy matters are heard before [our plans] are carried out," etc. Sun Tzu's main point in this passage is: Whereas you kill the spy himself "as a punishment for letting out the secret," the object of killing the other man is only, as Ch`en Hao puts it, "to stop his mouth" and prevent news leaking any further. If it had already been repeated to others, this object would not be gained. Either way, Sun Tzu lays himself open to the charge of inhumanity, though Tu Mu tries to defend him by saying that the man deserves to be put to death, for the spy would certainly not have told the secret unless the other had been at pains to worm it out of him."
[24] Literally "visitors", is equivalent, as Tu Yu says, to "those whose duty it is to keep the general supplied with information," which naturally necessitates frequent interviews with him.
[25] As the first step, no doubt towards finding out if any of these important functionaries can be won over by bribery.
[26] Tu Yu says: "through conversion of the enemy's spies we learn the enemy's condition." And Chang Yu says: "We must tempt the converted spy into our service, because it is he that knows which of the local inhabitants are greedy of gain, and which of the officials are open to corruption."
[27] Chang Yu says, "because the converted spy knows how the enemy can best be deceived."
[28] As explained in ss. 22-24. He not only brings information himself, but makes it possible to use the other kinds of spy to advantage.
[29] Sun Tzu means the Shang dynasty, founded in 1766 B.C. Its name was changed to Yin by P`an Keng in 1401.
[30] Better known as I Yin, the famous general and statesman who took part in Ch`eng T`ang's campaign against Chieh Kuei.
[31] Lu Shang rose to high office under the tyrant Chou Hsin, whom he afterwards helped to overthrow. Popularly known as T`ai Kung, a title bestowed on him by Wen Wang, he is said to have composed a treatise on war, erroneously identified with the LIU T`AO.
[32] There is less precision in the Chinese than I have thought it well to introduce into my translation, and the commentaries on the passage are by no means explicit. But, having regard to the context, we can hardly doubt that Sun Tzu is holding up I Chih and Lu Ya as illustrious examples of the converted spy, or something closely analogous. His suggestion is, that the Hsia and Yin dynasties were upset owing to the intimate knowledge of their weaknesses and shortcoming which these former ministers were able to impart to the other side. Mei Yao-ch`en appears to resent any such aspersion on these historic names: "I Yin and Lu Ya," he says, "were not rebels against the Government. Hsia could not employ the former, hence Yin employed him. Yin could not employ the latter, hence Hou employed him. Their great achievements were all for the good of the people." Ho Shih is also indignant: "How should two divinely inspired men such as I and Lu have acted as common spies? Sun Tzu's mention of them simply means that the proper use of the five classes of spies is a matter which requires men of the highest mental caliber like I and Lu, whose wisdom and capacity qualified them for the task. The above words only emphasize this point." Ho Shih believes then that the two heroes are mentioned on account of their supposed skill in the use of spies. But this is very weak.
[33] Tu Mu closes with a note of warning: "Just as water, which carries a boat from bank to bank, may also be the means of sinking it, so reliance on spies, while production of great results, is oft-times the cause of utter destruction."
[34] Chia Lin says that an army without spies is like a man with ears or eyes.
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Jim, the BYP and CE139 are the rifles in my overlay and it shows how different images of the same thing yet with a variety of details different, makes it impossible to do size comparisons on a 2d image. That and the rifles are not even facing the camera the same way...
when someone employs Photogrammetry and does actual measurements, we’ll know...
Ive been doing image comparisons a long time now... with different focal lengths and distances, comparisons are only estimations.
Tell us it was the same camera at diff distances, or same distance diff focal length... and we can.
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24 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:
I am seeing the CIA as stealing the show, the budget and taking the best and brightest men from the Military branches. By 1963, the CIA had it own planes, ships and soldiers. When the President was killed there were, what, 15-20 thousand “advisors” in Vietnam. It is repeatedly said that there were no “soldiers”. Well, that many men constitutes an entire division.
I don’t see how the other branches could have been too happy about this situation, unless the CIA’s main function was to foment war and eliminate political opposition to war.
Pretty sure the best source for info would be Prouty..... without the backing of military intervention, I fail to see how the CIA can operate on large scales like Vietnam. One a small scale the CIA was much more maneuverable than the behemoth ONI/MID orgs.
The first 4 directors were military men, Navy-AF-Navy-AF in fact... Admiral Hillenkotter went from last DCI to first Dir CIA
And he totally blew it on the Korean War...
ONI and MID had been around since the late 1800’s.... FBI SIS was given the intel job in the Western Hemisphere from 1940-1945... I think the military sees Hoover and his organizational skills a threat to their already existing intel establishment...
Under the National Security Act of 1947 he was nominated and confirmed by the U.S. Senate as DCI, now in charge of the newly established Central Intelligence Agency (December 1947). At first, the U.S. State Departmentdirected the new CIA's covert operations component, and George F. Kennan chose Frank Wisner to be its director. Hillenkoetter expressed doubt that the same agency could be effective at both covert action and intelligence analysis.
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Not that I’ve seen....
Here’s a bit more detail....
https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/images/pdf/JudythBaker-DJ.pdf
Edited and complete assist from Jimmy
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Has a great map ... wonder why Judy decides to live so far from the clinic...?
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For the JVB loyalists.... a question
she says she took a bus to and from work at Reilly for 11 weeks with her lover Lee....she was set us to pretend to be a secretary for a V.P. there.... if I remember correctly...
When was she at Ochsner’s clinic working with lead scientist Mary Sherman?
(please don’t tell me those 2 met at Ferris to perform these experiments all night, and jvb goes back to work with Ozzie, we all know what a bunch of bs that is given what was claimed to be developed)
Cant be a scientist working at Ochsner and be at Reilly all day....
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1 hour ago, Chuck Schwartz said:
I believe the CIA / US Military killed JFK because they wanted their war in Vietnam and JFK would have stopped that war. The CIA / US Military believed in the Domino theory, which said we needed to stop communism in Vietnam, or the rest of Asia would fall to the communists.
The players involved in the acquisition of Bell Helicopter “wanted” their war due to the immense profits war generates and how it refuels the Cold War with Russia.
I see the CIA simply as the fallguy for the military. While the big bad CIA is accused and stonewalls, military intelligence.... ONI, MID, etc continued to do whatever they wanted with CIA as the tip of the spear ... so to speak.
The CIA nor anyone there could, IMO, ORDER LeMay, Galloway, Burkley and the rest of the military medical staff to follow their orders... but they had to follow the orders of rear admirals and 4 star generals....
we can have a Domino theory discussion yet that starts with George Kennan and makes its way to Eisenhower. The Dulles brothers also pitched this bs theory to explain away their actions on the world stage.
Chuck, search for TEXTRON in this forum.... the players in Bell lead back to General Cabell... the brother a the Dallas Mayor and CIA Deputy Director
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1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:
And I doubt that that standard routine was any different with U.S. police departments in circa 1963.
According to the evidence Dave, he was searched 2, maybe 3 full times before those critical items were “found” between 4 and 4:30pm before the lineup
Bullets which specifically fit the pistol used by the Dallas, if not most major city’s police departments.
And a useless bus transfer, other than to put him on a bus he was provably not on... both McWatters and Whaley said you could pick the man out just by listening to him.... that and he was so different from the others in the lineup.
Mr. BALL - Do you know who that was?
Mr. McWATTERS - Just like I told them, I didn't know who was who or anything.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever learn who that person was?
Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I don't know whether that was really the man or not, I don't know.
Mr. BALL - I see.
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Icing on the Secret Service cake.....
CE399 comes into existence as we know it when SS Chief Rowley hands SA Johnson a bullet....
... and Johnson finally says ce399 is the same bullet he gets from Rowley..... all the others, not so much
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“Searched him good and found nothing”
2.5 hrs later 5 bullets and a bus transfer are supposedly found in his pants pocket and shirt pocket, respectively.
Thx Bart, that about blows those items of evidence out the window...
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On 7/25/2019 at 4:38 PM, Jim Hargrove said:
Since the rifles are the same lengths, the scopes should also be the same lengths. Minor variations in camera angles don’t change the proportions of scope length to rifle length.
Jim.... this overlay tells me the two images are not compatible based on sizes of things within the photo.
We do not know the angle of the BYP rifle with respect to the Camera...as it is tilted toward or away the size gets skewed smaller... the ce139 images are all straight on so the rifle appears larger.... sizing them for an accurate comparison is greatly restricted due to the details of each photo.
With Frazier getting C250 from Klein and 700 of the same rifles are at Century Intl Arms, having more than 1 FC Carcano was no big deal....
while the rifle in the BYPs may not be 139, it is still a Fucile Corto with a standard cheap scope.... The sizes in the BYPs are all off due to the composition of the photos....
On 7/25/2019 at 4:38 PM, Jim Hargrove said:As you can see from the above, you can visually detect the slight fold in the dark shirt immediately to the viewer’s left of the scope, but the scope is clearly shorter in the LIFE illustration, as shown below.
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On 7/25/2019 at 4:38 PM, Jim Hargrove said:
What do you make of the statement, “The assumption the WC has the negative is slightly amusing….”?
I wrote it Jim... since the negative the magazines got was a poor copy of the negative from 133-A... except the negative for 133-A was either lost or never actually recovered... or made it too obvious the image was a composite....
Once in possession of a decent photo, creating and retouching the negative is not that difficult....
In Jeff Carter's great series on the BYP: We are to remember that both LUMPKIN and WHITE were well-versed in photography as well as being associated with Military Intel.
An internal FBI memorandum dated March 25, 1964 is far less circumspect, stating: “Based on our investigation it would appear all of the photographs emanated from the Dallas Police Department.” The Dallas Police, as the HSCA would later confirm, “made numerous copies and did not control the dissemination.” Life Magazine negotiated a price of $5000 with Marina Oswald’s business agents for the publication rights to the photo, but the photo itself came from “an enterprising young man in the Dallas Police Department.” Life had an “original copy negative” of the photo, made in Dallas. (Shaneyfelt Exhibit 10)2
Yet as I reread the 1979 report excerpt from below...
An [sic] April 1, 1977, the committee received from Jeanne de Mohrenschildt, the widow of George de Mohrenschildt, a photograph of Oswald standing in a yard and holding a rifle in one hand and two newspapers in the other hand.(58) A gun was strapped in a holster on his hip. This photograph, which was similar to other photographs recovered in a search of Oswald's property on November 23, 1963, had never been seen by the Warren Commission or law enforcement official.
Any idea why George would mess up the cover story for his CIA masters? http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/jfk12/hscademo.htm
- George de Mohrenschildt testified before the Warren Commission that one evening when he and his wife visited the Oswalds at their Neely Street address in dallas, Marina Oswald exclaimed that Oswald had bought a gun and showed the gun to Jeanne de Mohrenschildt.(45) De mohrenschildt testified that this took place around Easter in the spring of 1963 and that the occasion of the visit was to take an Easter present or toy to the Oswald's daughter.(46)
- In his testimony de Mohrenschildt related that during that visit he and Oswald stood talking in the front room.(47) Marina Oswald opened a closet door to show the gun to Jeanne, and Jeanne in turn called out to George who was in the next room that Lee had a gun.(48) De Mohrenschildt said he did not look at the gun, but that Marina said Oswald used it for target shooting and that it had a telescopic sight.(49)
- De Mohrenschildt said he then asked Oswald "jokingly" if Oswald had taken the shot at General Walder, which had occurred in Dallas on April 10, 1963.(50) De Mohrenschildt said Oswald became tense, 'sort of shriveled" and made some kind of face in answer to the question without specifically answering the question.(51)
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Nevertheless, in an interview at the American embassy in Haiti in December 1963 with State Department officials, the de Mohrenschildts claimed that the gun incident had occurred in the fall of 1962.(52) Mrs. de Mohrenschildt stated that Marina Oswald had said "Look how crazy he is, he has bought a hun."(53) Mrs. de Mohrenschildt said she thought Oswald had only recently purchased the gun, that it was about 4 feet long, and that she did not know if it was a rifle or a shotgun.(54) she said Marina Oswald told her there was something special about the gun, that it was either automatic or had a telescopic sight.(55) In that interview, de Mohrenschildt claimed that the last time he and his wife saw the Oswalds was in January 1963 and that the de Mohrenschildts were too busy preparing for their upcoming trip to Haiti to see the Oswalds after that.(56)
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De Mohrenschildt had contacted the American Embassy in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, immediately after the assassination and said he had been acquainted with Lee harvey Oswald, volunteering to be of assistance during the assassination investigation.(57)
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An April 1, 1977, the committee received from Jeanne de Mohrenschildt, the widow of George de Mohrenschildt, a photograph of Oswald standing in a yard and holding a rifle in one hand and two newspapers in the other hand.(58) A gun was strapped in a holster on his hip. This photograph, which was similar to other photographs recovered in a search of Oswald's property on November 23, 1963, had never been seen by the Warren Commission or law enforcement official.
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On the rear of the photograph was the notation "To my friend George from Lee Oswald," with the date "5/IV/63" and another notation "Copyright Geo do M", and an inscription in Russian reading "Hunter of facists, ha-ha-ha!"(59) a handwriting panel engaged by the committee determined that the writing "To my friend George" and the Oswald signature were the writing of Lee Harvey Oswald.(60) The panel was not able to conclude whether the other writing was written by Lee Harvey Oswald, Marina Oswald, or George de Mohrenschildt.(61)
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On April 1, 1977, the committee also received from Jeanne de Mohrenschildt a copy of the manuscript of the book, "I Am A Patsy, I am A Patsy," which George de Mohrenschildt was writing about his relationship with Lee Harvey Oswald at the time of de Mohrenschildt's suicide on March 29, 1977.(62) In that manuscript, de Mohrenschildt wrote that he and his wife had stumbled upon the gun photo in February 1967 in boxes of their belongings that they had placed in storage in early 1963 before their departure for Haiti im May 1963.(63) De Mohrenschildt speculated in the manuscript that Oswald had in a sense left them a "gift from the grave," placing the photograph where it could later be discovered by de Mohrenschildt.(64) He explained that the photo was among English practice records that he and his wife had loaned to Marina Oswald, and that somehow the Oswalds had managed to return those records, including the photograph, to the de Mohrenschildts's possessions.(65)
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In the manuscript de Mohrenschildt identified the handwritten date of the photograph, "5/IV/63" as April 5, 1963-and stated that at that time he and his wife "were thousands of males away in Haiti."(66) That statement contradicts the statement de Mohrenschildt gave to Warren commission and State Department official about the dates of his travel to Haiti.
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The circumstances of the de Mohrenschildts's learning that Oswald owned a rifle, de Mohrenschildt's comment to Oswald about the Walder shooting, and the circumstances of the "discovery" of the gun photograph in the de Mohrenschildts' possessions may indicate knowledge the de Mohrenschildts had about the violent turn Oswald's political inclinations had taken that have not been fully explored.
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Well... Armstrong’s notebooks are what I go there to download....
Weisberg’s archive is amazing as well....
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Mr. McBride....
The very last thing with which you need to concern yourself is the opinion of one Paul Trejo....
You, I am sure, have much better things to do with your time.... as do we all
DJ
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We all truly need to become acquainted with the SHANEYFELT exhibits in the WCR.....
The "copy" negative for this image is what Newsweek and Life apparently received... A negative made from the DeMohrenschildt print I believe.
Not exactly sure how one would add a scope ... we do know they made the stock look straighter than it really was (#1 alteration)
So we have a composite image of Ozzie's face and a body. Notice too how the newspaper's shadow is lightened in the LIFE cover whereas in the 133-B print
it betrays how the nose shadow SHOULD look... not straight down but to Ozzie's right... should we see more of a shadow from the newspaper on his torso?How and why does the scope in this photo have any bearing on CE139? We don't even know that's the same rifle at all.... We don't know what happened to the rifle Drain sent cause Frazier doesn't tell us CE139 was the rifle which arrived from DALLAS the morning of 11/23...
Would Eisenberg be guilty of leading the witness here – ya think? What value is there initialing evidence AFTER it gets to the lab? That proves nothing as ANY RIFLE could have been used... as to the BYP and the scope... I just see Butler wrong as he has been in each and every photographic analysis he's done and posted to these pages...
Remember he's the one claiming Hill and Moorman were moved from up Elm as well as completely changed....Another quality analysis from our man JB... Pu-leeze already with that man's opinions.
Mr. EISENBERG - Mr. Frazier, I now hand you a rifle marked Commission Exhibit 139.
Are you familiar with this weapon?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, I am.
Mr. EISENBERG - And do you recognize it by serial number or by your mark?
Mr. FRAZIER - By serial number on the barrel, and by my initials which appear on various parts of the weapon.
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12 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:
Where did Armstrong say this?
Not sure what this is doing in a Mexico City thread..... as for PT's pithy comments, Paula does indeed mention that the MAN THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT was wearing a similar sweater to Oswald when he was killed.... Obviously it was not the same sweater... yet wouldn't it be more telling that Paula and guest, McFarland and Bowen are all put on a Del Norte bus while our man Oswald arrives - according to the WCR - on Flecha Rojas and/or Anahuac
As for his entering in an "AUTO" as the FM-11 claims.... if he is going to Mexico to get money from companions to kill JFK - he is involved in a conspiracy to kill POTUS... exactly as the CIA had planned phase 1. When he HAD to be a Lone Nut, the car "STORY" becomes the bus "STORY"
A "false story re Oswald's trip to Mexico" is a false story no matter how many different ways you want to cut it.
FLECHA ROJAS - CD1245 also has the bus manifest from Monterrey (where Pam and guest supposedly get on the Flecha Rojas bus) to Mexico City...
They are not on that manifest either...
Flecha Rojas Baggage Manifest leaving Nuevo Laredo... this is interpreted as BOWEN on line 15 AND A GUEST on line 16 (just like M/M McFarland)
Bowen/Osbourne also denies it was Oswald... if he was a CIA/FBI asset, he sure didn't do his job convincing them it was Oswald....
"NO OTHER AMERICANS OR ENGLISH SPEAKING PERSONS ON THIS BUS"
Mr. BALL. How was this boy from Texas dressed?
Miss MUMFORD. He was dressed casually. I don't remember what color trousers he had on. He had on a dark sweater. I know that. It was a wool sweater, a sort of a charcoal gray color. When we saw him on television. being arrested or being taken down to the Dallas County jail, Patricia was the first to recognize that that was the same sweater. We were reluctant to believe this. of course, at first; that we knew this man. But she said the thinning hair on the top, the thinning, curly, wiry hair, plus the sweater that she recognized right away, and I recognized afterwards, made us almost certain that this was the same man.I collected a variety of POSTMARKS and while most have a number after the location, one says "Terminal Annex" after Dallas, TEX.
suggesting to me that these are locations and not machine numbers... Every post office has postal zones for which it serves.... you can then tell where mail originated."MIAMI's" for example has no number or designation... ergo no MACHINE processed it? Don't think so.
Besides - who microfilms an envelope and neglects the Money Order unless there never was a money order (or rifle order) in the first place?Plus, What's the point of printing a machine # on a postmark....?
So - J HERBERT SAWYER was FBI as well
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Still pushing my way thru the doc release.... lol
Yet found this in the HSCA alphabetized subject files.... Sawyer appears to have been yet another in the help to convict Ozzie... case in point:
Mr. BELIN. All right, in any event--pardon me, do you have anything else to add?
Mr. SAWYER. Also, there was a broadcast here in the transcript about the railroad yard.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. SAWYER. And this could be part of what I was thinking about, or what I had heard, was this broadcast on the radio about the railroad yard.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? You went inside the building, is that correct?
Mr. SAWYER. We immediately went inside the building. I took--I believe Sgt. Harkness may have gone with me. I am not positive of that.
Mr. BELIN. Was the elevator on the first floor when you got there, or did you have to wait for it to come down?
Mr. SAWYER. Best of my recollection, it was there.
Mr. BELIN. You got to the elevator, went up, looked around back there. How long did you spend up there at the top floor that the elevator took you to?
Mr. SAWYER. Just took a quick look around and made sure there was nobody hiding on that floor. I doubt if it took over a minute at the most.
Mr. BELIN. To go up and look around and come down?
Mr. SAWYER. To look around on the floor. How long it took to go up, it couldn't have been over 3 minutes at the most from the time we left, got up and back down.
Mr. BELIN. Then that would put it around no sooner than 12:37, if you heard the call at 12:34?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, sir.