Dawn Meredith

David, I appreciate your thoughtful response. But the Central Intelligence Agency Act of 1949 elevated the CIA above the military. Peace to you as well, M. Thanks Mike... Hope you read "None Dare....." I believe if you have not, it will change the way you see the assassination and CIA.... With regards to your comment above.... would you quantify "elevated" please... I've read over the Act and while it allows Financial and personnel secrecy... the CIA still had to go thru the Military for anything they wanted.. If anything, the Act allowed the CIA to get into more trouble than the 1947 envisioned. I look forward to your response DJ David, Oddly enough None Dare Call It Conspiracy was the first book I ever read on this subject. In 1973, was loaned to me by a college friend as I was talking about the JFK conspiracy to him. I'd like to read it again, but I recall it was quite from a John Bircher bent. Dawn Hey there Dawn... Would like to know what you mean by "Bircher bent" thanks DJ David, It's been decades. I recall it was a focussed on a "Commie conspiracy" primarily and I knew Russia had zero to do with the assassination of JFK. By "Bircher" I meant John Birch Society. Dawn

They could not have ever proved any of the above in court. Therefore he had to die.

No the "forum's" don't apply here. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think that entire thread is very sad and a terrible commentary on the state of the critical community in general. This is war and it is not equal. We who care so much about this case were never any real match for them. And to be so ego driven and bickering over trivia is basically just what they want,imho. ..So long as we are fighting each other our real enemy is growing ever more strong. And this has been the case of the community from the start. Egos and agents. Hard to tell them apart these days. After nearly fifty years why is it that so many put their pet theory ahead of uniting for a goal that serves justice?. Tomorrow JFK would be ninety five years old. Cannot we honor the memory of the man who gave so much for the very survival of this planet in some better way?

What about Sam Sheppard or Dr. McDonald? Kathy C I have been following the case of Dr. J. McDonald for a very long time. Last time I looked at it he appeared innocent to me, but it's been some time. The witnesses and /or alleged. perps had been found, the girl at least and I think has since died. Lots of funky stuff there. Dawn

One has to wonder why this Cinque character has suddenly appeared and seems to spend 24/7 here pushing one idea no matter how many disagree. I know it is against the rules to question the motives of the posters but can we wonder why when it is such a side issue in this very complex case?. People can see different things in all of the photographic evidence. Much is total speculation that I leave to the photo experts like Bob Groden. Cinque has not held himself out as any sort of expert in this area and the obsessive nature of saying this one thing over and over, over 500 posts is just very odd to me. I know that I am far from alone in feeling this way. Why on earth is this SO important to him? And how does this advance the JFK case one bit? At best it is a distraction. All very odd. He uses phrases like "this will fall like a house of cards" (on Amazon). What will fall? How would anything change even it is WAS Oswald in the doorway? It would not change the fact of conspiracy. It would not change LHO's innocence. It tells us noting about anything of significance in this case. Thus I wonder why he is going on and on and on. Ego? Or something more? Dawn.

Once again agreement among people who never agree. (I also agree). Dawn

I am just a few minutes north of you in Austin. Curious as to your weight loss program, what it entails. Thanks, Dawn

He absolutely did. In a speech the next day. Dr. Marty Schotz' book - History Will Not Absolve Us"- has the entire speech and not too long ago Robert Morrow posted it somewhere here. Dawn

Jim: The TRUTH that matters is that LHO shot no one. Many witnesses saw him on the second floor drinking a coke. Are they all lying? That is the only truth that matters, at least to me: where LHO was NOT. And that is the 6th floor shooting the president. A long time ago I too thought it was LHO in the photo, I have since become convinced that it was Lovelady. Aren't there way more important issues in this case that you could spend your time on? To disagree with you and Cinque is your equal to not caring about the truth? Beyond absurd. Beyond sad. Is this where we really are after almost forty nine years? Dawn

No it's not. He's paid to be a xxxx and pass on disinformation. I cannot watch him either. I totally believe he KNOWS better but...there is no truth in there.

Sirhan did not kill RFK. I believe he should be exonerated. "Colby" is lost on purpose. Noguchi DID testify that the shot that killed the Senator was behind the right ear as close as an inch away. John that is great news it will now get far more publicity. I have written to Brad Johnson but cannot find a contact for the co-author Michael Martinez (I may also be mis-remembering his name).. Dawn.

I’m predicting that one day America will elect a black president and that Brazil will elect a female one! http://www.moldea.com/RFKReviews.html And I am predicting that one day the moderators here will have the good sense to place you on moderation like they did with you know who last week. Typical of you to make fun of such an important story.

This really is amazing for CNN. I posted on my facebook page twice, yesterday and today. it is also my status update, posted it at DPF, and it is already here in the RFK section. I think we also need to contact the writer of this story and encourage this person to continue. I have NEVER seen an in depth story on MSM about any of the assassinations and so this person has to be VERY encouraged. Imagine if it started a trend!!! I also emailed it to many who are not on facebook. Dawn

Yes this is an amazing story especially for MSM. My dear departed friend Phil Melanson, who found this woman, is smiling in the afterworld. So what "Colby" that the DA called the coroner, he still testified accurately as to where the kill shots came from. It was the defense who shut him up. I have never heard, in twenty seven years of practicing law, of a defense team stipulating that their client was the killer. That is NOT a trial. They should have been disbarred. Yea for CNN. I hope that this judge can comprehend the concept of a Manchurian candidate. I know that Dr. Pepper will certainly educate him. Otherwise there is no justice for Sirhan under what is commonly known as the party rule, called vicarious liability in CA according to this article. Dawn

Thanks Steve. I lent my copy of "Let Justice Be Done", and never got it back, so it's good to know it's on kindle. I have two copies of "Men on 6th floor" that I bought directly from Glen Sample years ago. (I actually bought way more than that as gifts). Dawn

That report jumped out at everyone. SIlbert and O'Neil. It was always amazing to me that it was not deep sixed. So contrary to the official lie. Dawn

I don't believe Butterfield was ever with the Secret Service. He was a pilot, an aid to Nixon in the White House, and later the head of the FAA. Ya, shortly after the Dorothy Hunt murder 12/8/72....those three appointments by Nixon were sooo suspicious. (Dwight Chapin, to United Air Lines, and Egil Krough 12/9, undersecty of Dept of Transportation, "what did the president know and when did he know it?? The Mark Felt story is total bullcrap. But then most of what's been written about Watergate is as well. (Meaning it was so clear that ole tricky was set up) Dawn.....

I think it has a LOT of truth to it and disclosures via ARRB have only added to just how right Garrison was. Dawn

Sounds like a loaded question. I sincerely doubt Robert even owns the "complete works" of my dear friend Phil Melanson, who died way before his time. Robert: Have you read Phil's books on MLK and RFK? Do you even own them? Same with Newman's books, have you read then? And speaking of Ms. Brown just exactly WHEN did you spend any time talking with her? Just curious. Dawn

Ted set himself up and his nephew's recklessness in flying into a situation beyond his a abilities is the most likely explanation for the crash. I am unaware of evidence Teddy was investigating the assassination or that 'John-John' was doing so in anything more than the superficial style of George. Actually JFK Jr. was doing a lot of investigating. But I am not here to do your research because I know you have no interest in truth in any form. So I will just repost a short summary of SOME of the salient evidence regarding what we have been told by MSM and what has been uncovered. There is far more, but I know both you and Robert do not care to actually look into this. So with thanks to Adele Edisen for her summary: Dawn ----------------------------------------- 04-02-2012 02:48 AM #34 Adele Edisen View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles Add as Contact Send Email Member Join Date:Sep 2008 Posts:183 Years ago on the Rich DellaRosa forum we had discussions about the death of John Kennedy, Jr., his wife Carolyn, and his sister-in-law, Lauren Bessette. About that time John Hankey had introduced his DVDs on the assassination of JFK and one on the death of his son, John, Jr. Along with John, Jr., his wife Carolyn, his sister-in-law Lauren Bessette, and possibly a flight instructor who was thought to have been aboard the Piper Saratoga plane with them perished in an unusual airplane crash in to the sea near Martha's Vinyard where they were to land and drop off Lauren Bessette so she could meet her good friend, Carole Radziwill. They then would proceed to Hyannis Port to spend the weekend at family wedding festivities. From my readings of books written by John's friends, associates, colleagues, and cousin's wife, Carole Radziwill, I find it entirely possible that John did have a flight instructor with him. He was not quite totally familiar with his newly acquired plane, a Piper Saratoga, so he would very frequently fly with an instructor. Also, he was logging in more instrument-time flying for which he needed to be under the supervision of a flight instructor. Another problem was that he was still using crutches and limping due to an earlier ankle injury. In order to maneuver a plane on the ground, he needed full use of the foot pedals to do this, and probably would have asked his flight instructor to perform this task. Richard Blow, an editor of his GEORGE Magazine spoke with him on that Friday afternoon before he left for the airport in New Jersey where his plane was stored. John told him that he would have a flight instructor flying with him. Carole Radziwill, who was waiting at Martha's Vinyard Airport the arrival of Lauren Bessette, became greatly concerned when the plane was delayed. She called a flight instructor with whom she was familiar from previous flights to tell his wife of the delay, and was surprised when he answered the phone. Obviously, another instructor had been chosen in New Jersey. She describes her experiences that night in her book, WHAT REMAINS: A Memoir of Fate, Friendship and Love. John Hankey states that the the body of a flight instructor was not found. We know from the National Transportation Safety Board's Report that the seat in which the flight instructor would have been occupying next to John's pilot seat was missing from the debris found of the wreckage at the bottom of the sea, 150 feet below. The other three occupants' bodies were found strapped in their seats, all of which were bolted to the floor of the cabin. John's flight log which would record details of the flight from take-off to destination would also list passengers and any other personnel, was kept in an aqua colored flight bag. Some luggage and the flight bag washed up on shore, but the flight bag did not contain the Flight Log Book. John Hankey proposed that the flight istructor was suicidal, or rather had been programmed to be suicidal by the murderers. This was based on the crash of an Egyptian military plane, flying from the US to Egypt in which a deranged pilot had overpowered the pilots in the cabin of the plane and made the plane plunge into the sea. Hankey proposed that the body of the flight instructor had to be removed from John's plane so that it would appear that the only pilot on board was John and the crash could be described as due to pilot error. The perpretrators had plenty of time to accomplish this, as the wreckage was not found for a few days. However, other investigators have suggestd that some kind of explosive device was placed on the plane before take-off at the New Jersey airport. Eye-witnesses on the beach overlooking the crash site saw flashes of light in the dark sky about the time of John's plane approach to the Martha's Vinyard Airport. According to the National Transportation Safety Board's Report, the distribution of debris from the plane's crash was very widespread and I would attribute that to an explosion in the air. Rich DellaRosa told me that he thought it had been done with a "pressure bomb". Sherman Skolnick, Scott Meyers, and John DiNaerdo investigators mentioned by Greg Burnham on this topic have concluded similarly. It is both curious and suspicious that John's plane went down around 9:30 PM, Friday, July 16, 1999. Yet it took all of Saturday, Sunday, Monday until Tuesay when the wreckage was found. According to John Hankey, the Pentagon was brought in to do the searchng and it seems that they were flying in a wide elliptical pattern of about two hundred miles in width along the coast from Martha's Vinyard toward New York. The site of the crash was about seven miles east of Martha's Vinyard and the exact latitude and longitude coordinates of the plane just before it crashed had been radioed by John Kennedy to the Martha's Vinyard Airport Tower as was required of planes preparing to land as they drop in altitude to the required 2500 feet before beginning their final descent. There was no haze in the vicinity as reported by other pilots coming to land around that same time, and the airport lights were visible from the air. Since the Airport Tower's radar followed the descent of the plane, the wreckage should have been very easy to locate. Adele Last edited by Adele Edisen; 04-03-2012 at 08:28 AM.

Ted set himself up and his nephew's recklessness in flying into a situation beyond his a abilities is the most likely explanation for the crash. I am unaware of evidence Teddy was investigating the assassination or that 'John-John' was doing so in anything more than the superficial style of George. Wow, I am honored to have two of the deepest thinkers at the EF disagree with me re Ted and his nephew. I lived in Boston when this event occurred. I saw Ted Kennedy on tv and his story was not credible in the least. I have been to the scene. Driven over the bridge. The account presented by Robert Cutler and Richard E. Sprague makes the most sense to me. Simpkin posted here at Ef a few years back. I had already been familiar with this research as I knew Bob Cutler in MA. Not well, but saw him present. I give you something to ponder from these very pages. Dawn Richard E. Sprague has some interesting information about the death of Mary Jo Kopechne at Chappaquiddick. The Power Control Group faced up to the Ted Kennedy and Kennedy family problem very early. They used the threat against the Kennedy children's lives very effectively between 1963 and 1968 to silence Bobby and the rest of the family and friends who knew the truth. It was necessary to assassinate Bobby in 1968 because with the power of the presidency he could have prevented the Group from harming the children. When Teddy began making moves to run for president in 1969 for the 1972 election, the Group decided to put some real action behind their threats. Killing Teddy in 1969 would have been too much. They selected a new way of eliminating him as a candidate. They framed him with the death of a young girl, and threw sexual overtones in for good measure. Here is what happened according to Robert Cutler's (You the Jury - 1974) analysis of the evidence. The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary JO would not escape. Mary Jo actually regained consciousness and pushed her way to the top of the car (which was actually the bottom of the car - it had landed on its roof) and died from asphyxiation. The group with Teddy revived him early in the morning and let him know he had a problem. Possibly they told him that Mary JO had been kidnapped. They told him his children would be killed if he told anyone what had happened and that he would hear from them. On Chappaquiddick, the other group made contact with Markham and Gargan, Ted's cousin and lawyer. They told both men that Mary JO was at the bottom of the river and that Ted would have to make up a story about it, not revealing the existence of the group. One of the men resembled Ted and his voice sounded something like Ted's. Markham and Gargan were instructed to go the the Vineyard on the morning ferry, tell Ted where Mary JO was, and come back to the island to wait for a phone call at a pay station near the ferry on the Chappaquiddick side. The two men did as they were told and Ted found out what had happened to Mary JO that morning. The three men returned to the pay phone and received their instructions to concoct a story about the "accident" and to report it to the police. The threat against Ted's children was repeated at that time. Ted, Markham and Gargan went right away to police chief Arena's office on the Vineyard where Ted reported the so-called "accident." Almost at the same time scuba diver John Farror was pulling Mary JO out of the water, since two boys who had gone fishing earlier that morning had spotted the car and reported it. Ted called together a small coterie of friends and advisors including family lawyer Burke Marshall, Robert MacNamara, Ted Sorenson, and others. They met on Squaw Island near the Kennedy compound at Hyannisport for three days. At the end of that time they had manufactured the story which Ted told on TV, and later at the inquest. Bob Cutler calls the story, "the shroud." Even the most cursory examination of the story shows it was full of holes and an impossible explanation of what happened. Ted's claim that he made the wrong turn down the dirt road toward the bridge by mistake is an obvious lie. His claim that he swam the channel back to Martha's Vineyard is not believable. His description of how he got out of the car under water and then dove down to try to rescue Mary JO is impossible. Markham and Gargan's claims that they kept diving after Mary JO are also unbelievable. The evidence for the Cutler scenario is substantial. It begins with the marks on the bridge and the position of the car in the water. The marks show that the car was standing still on the bridge and then accelerated off the edge, moving at a much higher speed than Kennedy claimed. The distance the car travelled in the air also confirms this. The damage to the car on two sides and on top plus the damage to the windshield and the rear view mirror stanchion prove that some of the damage had to have been inflicted before the car left the bridge. The blood on the back and on the sleeves of Mary JO's blouse proves that a wound was inflicted before she left the bridge. The alcohol in her bloodstream proves she was drugged, since all witnesses testified she never drank and did not drink that night. The fact that she was in the back seat when her body was recovered indicates that is where she was when the car hit the water. There was no way she could have dived downward against the inrushing water and moved from the front to the back seat underneath the upside-down seat back. The wounds on the back of Ted Kennedy's skull, those just above his ear and the large bump on the top indicate he was knocked out. His actions at the hotel the next morning show he was not aware of Mary JO's death until Markham and Gargan arrived. The trip to the pay phone on Chappaquiddick can only be explained by his receiving a call there, not making one. There were plenty of pay phones in or near Ted's hotel if he needed to make a private call. The tides in the channel and the direction in which Ted claimed he swam do not match. In addition it would have been a superhuman feat to have made it across the channel (as proven by several professionals who subsequently tried it). Deputy Sheriff Christopher Look's testimony, coupled with the testimony of Ray LaRosa and two Lyons girls, proves that there were two people in Ted's car with Mary Jo at 12:45 pm. The three party members walking along the road south toward the cottage confirmed the time that Mr. Look drove by. He stopped to ask if they needed a ride. Look says that just prior to that he encountered Ted's car parked facing north at the juncture of the main road and the dirt road. It was on a short extension of the north-south section of the road junction to the north of the "T". He says he saw a man driving, a woman in the seat beside him, and what he thought was another woman lying on the back seat. He remembered a portion of the license plate which matched Ted's car, as did the description of the car. Markham, Gargan and Ted's driver's testimony show that someone they talked to in the pitch black night sounded like Ted and was about his height and build. None of the above evidence was ever explained by Ted or by anyone else at the inquest or at the hearing on the case demanded by district attorney Edward Dinis. No autopsy was ever allowed on Mary JO's body (her family objected), and Ted made it possible to fly her body home for burial rather quickly. Kennedy haters have seized upon Chappaquiddick to enlarge the sexual image now being promoted of both Ted and Jack Kennedy. Books like "Teddy Bare" take full advantage of the situation. Just which operatives in the Power Control Group at the high levels or the lower levels were on Chappaquiddick Island? No definite evidence has surfaced as yet, except for an indication that there was at least one woman and at least three men, one of whom resembled Ted Kennedy and who sounded like him in the darkness. However, two pieces of testimony in the Watergate hearings provide significant clues as to which of the known JFK case conspirators may have been there. E. Howard Hunt told of a strange trip to Hyannisport to see a local citizen there about the Chappaquiddick incident. Hunt's cover story on this trip was that he was digging up dirt on Ted Kennedy for use in the 1972 campaign. The story does not make much sense if one questions why Hunt would have to wear a disguise, including his famous red wig, and to use a voice-alteration device to make himself sound like someone else. If, on the other hand, Hunt's purpose was to return to the scene of his crime just to make sure that no one who might have seen his group at the bridge or elsewhere would talk, then the disguise and the voice box make sense. The other important testimony came from Tony Ulasewicz who said he was ordered by the Plumbers to fly immediately to Chappaquiddick and dig up dirt on Ted. The only problem Tony has is that, according to his testimony, he arrived early on the morning of the "accident", before the whole incident had been made public. Ulasewicz is the right height and weight to resemble Kennedy and with a CIA voice-alteration device he presumably could be made to sound like him. There is a distinct possibility that Hunt and Tony were there when it happened. The threats by the Power Control Group, the frame-up at Chappaquiddick, and the murders of Jack and Bobby Kennedy cannot have failed to take their toll on all of the Kennedys. Rose, Ted, Jackie, Ethel and the other close family members must be very tired of it all by now. They can certainly not be blamed for hoping it will all go away. Investigations like those proposed by Henry Gonzalez and Thomas Downing only raised the spectre of the powerful Control Group taking revenge by kidnapping some of the seventeen children. It was no wonder that a close Kennedy friend and ally in California, Representative Burton, said that he would oppose the Downing and Gonzalez resolutions unless Ted Kennedy put his stamp of approval on them. While the sympathies of every decent American go out to them, the future of our country and the freedom of the people to control their own destiny through the election process mean more than the lives of all the Kennedys put together. If John Kennedy were alive today he would probably make the same statement. Back to top of the page up there ^ MultiQuote Reply --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

David, I appreciate your thoughtful response. But the Central Intelligence Agency Act of 1949 elevated the CIA above the military. Peace to you as well, M. Thanks Mike... Hope you read "None Dare....." I believe if you have not, it will change the way you see the assassination and CIA.... With regards to your comment above.... would you quantify "elevated" please... I've read over the Act and while it allows Financial and personnel secrecy... the CIA still had to go thru the Military for anything they wanted.. If anything, the Act allowed the CIA to get into more trouble than the 1947 envisioned. I look forward to your response DJ David, Oddly enough None Dare Call It Conspiracy was the first book I ever read on this subject. In 1973, was loaned to me by a college friend as I was talking about the JFK conspiracy to him. I'd like to read it again, but I recall it was quite from a John Bircher bent. Dawn

There has never been proof that the Kennedys were going to kill Castro. The CIA was trying to do so -- exploding cigars, poison. He was not planning to kill Castro but his joint chiefs of staff wanted to and Kennedy was afraid they were going to send a missile to Cuba without letting him know. Kennedy was using back channels to Castro, trying to end the feud amicably. On December 1st he was going to sign a document that he was going to pull out all the "advisors" by December of 1964 -- ask Greg Burnham. He was not planning Castro's death. Right now, I think Castro is dead. So this was going to be a secret operation between the 2 brothers. I don't believe it. But the CIA and the Cuban-Exiles may have decided someone must leave and they turned around and killed Kennedy in the hope that Castro would be blamed and the military could do something to Castro. But Johnson and Hoover claimed LHO killed JFK. There was a cover-up. Johnson signed a document to put troops into Viet Nam. But the lingering question: Why didn't the Kennedys investigate what happened? Why? Fear of death? Kathy C Cathy: They DID investigate. And you may not have noticed but Bobby was assassinated by the same forces, Ted was set up by the same forces and JFK Jr was blown out of the sky, imho. I get so tired of THAT particular question about a family who gave so much. Dawn

Really. Such total slime. Anthony Summers' book "Conspiracy" was out by 1980 and goes into incredible detail, in the chapter "Countdown to Conspiracy" the back channel efforts of Castro and JFK towards detente. But CIA scum like Hersh need not bother with checking the facts. Just make em up and become a bestseller. Thanks Doug Caddy for bringing this exchange to our attention. "Justice". Wow. Dawn