Dawn Meredith

BK After a lot of consideration Carl made the decision that this book would be about SDS only and not about the assassinations. That to write about his many years of work on the assassination of JFK would be a different memoir. (Though the war and Kennedy's murder are completely linked, he covered this in earlier books). If someone should ever write a book about "second generation critics" the AIB would head that list. Founded in 1973 this group worked tirelessly lecturing and pushing for HSCA, disbanding only at the conclusion of this (failed) investigation. Dawn Doug, thanks for this article. Carl is not online so I will call him and read it to him.

So much for Charles and the Pats. As a Philadelphia Eagle fan, like Spector, I really can't stand the Giants, even if they do play in New Jersey, and now I have to put up with all the obnoxious Giant fans I already can't stand. For those out of the loop, the Philadelphia Eagles are in the same NFL division as the New York Giants, Dallas Cowboys and Washington Redskins. It's hard to say whose more of a hated rival than Phily-Dallas, though I've heard the Washington Redskins are more beligerant against Dallas then the Eagles, which is hard to believe. But after Dallas, Philly fans, especially those in South Jersey, don't like the Giants, or the Devils, or the Nets, even though they play in New Jersey. South Jersey is alligned with Philly, and North Jersey with New York. The mob breakdown goes the same way, especially important with bookies, with South Jersey, Camden, Trenton and Atlantic City under the Philly mob, with North Jersey considered New York mob territory. The Philadelphia Eagles were playing the Washington Redskins on December 7, 1941, while Pearl Harbor was being attacked. Oswald was a Cowboys fan, as was Ruby. Only North Jersey and New York Jerks like the Giants and now we have to put up with their BS until their ass is whooped once again by the Eagles. Oh, Well, At least Miami's perfect record is preserved. BK Great game. And although your mob breakdown is correct, the Philly family has a crew based out of the Ironmound in Newark. I thought it was a WEIRD game. It was a first for me. (Yup, never watched a football game before). With a minute left to go I almost went to bed, thinking "the Pats have it", then suddenly, after a game of almost no action, it all turned around. Stunningly weird. Sad! Dawn (But Tom Petty rocked the joint!)

Who's selling the book? It's non-fiction? Kathy Kathy Amazon has it. (I just checked). There are only two customer reviews. But it sounds most interesting from what's been posted here. We need way more first person books on this case, from every perspective there is, before every last bit player is gone. Dawn

Does anyone know when Abt died? (I am assuming he has). In 1983 I tried to find him. I made several calls to New York, to the ACLU and via directory service. (Sadly this was before the 'net). I was never able to locate him. Dawn

Unfortunate news, if so - which I have no reason to doubt. He died with many questions unanswered and many, many tempting loose ends dangling...... I didn't know GPH personally and had a small bias against his bashing of Plumlee. The nature of their mutual enmity unknown to me. I relish not the death of anyone. Man of many mysteries. I hope you left some materials already out, or to be released upon your death to help lift some of the fog. R.I.P. I agree. There are few left on the planet who could be of assistance re.o the many questions in this case. Unfortunately Hemming did not see fit to truly come clean. I can only hope, as Peter has stated, that he left some information to be made public after his death. I also hope that he did not suffer. (Has anyone seen an obit?) Dawn

Thanks Peter. A good list to begin with. But I disagree and think that the SBT is still the place TO start. People sometimes don't really know what they need to know about this absurd explanation. Dawn

Posting for Tosh: Dawn I tried to post the following but could not. I tried to post the following, but would not post. "...Assigned MOS 1795 as of 8th of Feb 1953 age 15. Held the rank of Cpl Army Reserve and Texas National Guard..... assigned Mos 0006 Basic Training July 54 US Regular Army. Army Reserve MOS 1795 4th Army Reserve. Time in service 1952 through 1955 CIA 1956 through 1984. Go suck wind Punk. Of course they never did a background check each time I join and I could just go in and out of the National Guard, Regular Army, and Army Reserve anytime I wanted to at ages 14; 15; and 16. I tried to attatch the military records again which were taken off the posting at the beginning of this thread for whatever reasons. They will not attatch for some reason at this time. Perhaps others have these copies and would care to post them. Why don't you just say it? Are you call me a xxxx? Are you saying what I have said never happened? Are you saying I fabricated this story? You have prove nothing. Look at what you posted. It was not the law in 1950 through 1955 The information I posted was declasified in Sept 2006. Why was it classified in the first place? I would get a new computer if I were you or at least a new ID. ...Your cover has been blown". end Seems someone does not want this information out there. Why?

Well that's certainly true. Of course President Kennedy said things with substance, not just style. So far Obama has not displayed the substance. Still, IMO Obama's speech at the 2004 Dem convention was great. I agree with what is being said here. Yes the 04 speech was terrific, but I have not been impressed since then. I have watched every debate and the person with whom I was most impressed was Ron Paul. Sure I love Dennis K but he did not have any real vote getting machine. Paul was a breath of fresh air. His anti war speeches made even Republicans applaud. The truth has a way of hitting you in the face. Of course the Arab world dislikes us because we've been over there bombing and occupying. It has ZERO to do with our alleged "freedoms". As Paul pointed out a couple of weeks ago "Why don't they dislike Canadians?" And to listen to him discuss the economic mess we are in was breathtaking. Socially I am not for him at all, he is too libertarian about big business and the like, ie no regulation. But getting rid of IRS and replacing it with the fair tax is something I have been in agreement since reading a book on the subject. A right wing nut (Neal Boortz ) wrote the book, but it made perfect sense to me. I think Obama is beholding to the same folks Jimmy Carter was. Trilateralists. And I agree, his speeches totally lack substance. The word "change", over and over is reminding me of how often Gore said "lockbox" in the 2000 debate. I hope against hope that I am wrong, but like Lloyd Benson said to Danny boy in that debate "he is no Jack Kennedy". (IMHO). Dawn

Finally! Something which one can thoroughly evaluate. Can not speak for others, but that most certainly convinced me. However, perhaps it would be best were I to NOT mention exactly what it convinced me of. "he obviously wasn't selling Girl Scout Cookies" Perhaps not, and I would have to go back and check the US Code to see if "stealing" Girl Scout Cookies was a Federal Crime at the time. http://openlettersmonthly.com/issue/he-died/ I can only think that Thomas is jealous of the fact his cookie sales didn't get as much blacked-out due to national security. Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life..... Oh, the burdens we all have to bear in life How true! The burden of "ignorance" has always weighed heavily onto the progress of all cultures and nationalities. Now! The Train just went by (Mississippi Export/aka "Peanut Special") and it dawned that perhaps this topic should also get back onto the "right track". (The Peanut Special can not get diverted as it has only one set of tracks). First off: The expunged FBI record of questioning of some group of underage kids who may or may not have been involved in an auto-theft, has absolutely ZERO to do with the topic heading which is: Declassified military file The only connection in which this questioning would have any connection to military records would be if one can show, by documentation, that the individual was actually found guilty of the crime and thereafter actually "forced" into joining the military service under what was referred to as the "Juvenile Offender" status. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #22 I started this thread to answer the question; how did a young man of 14 get into the Regular Army, and too how young men bond (sic/aka bound) for prison were sent into the army to train for specialized military operations for whatever reasons. ------------------------------- http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12092 I. How did Plumlee get into the National Guard at 14 while on 4 years federal probation? -------------------------------------- I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post #20 Would anyone have any interest in those two blocks on the form which have to do with "Juvenile Offender" status enlistment as well as that block which deals with convictions in Civil/Civillian Court. As well as the "Probation" question block? Last time that I counted, four years added to 22 Oct 1952 would equate to 22 October, 1956. However, by this application date which was 9 Feb 55, the individual (applicant) was neither on probation nor awaiting final disposition of Civil Procedures. HMMMMMMMMMMM? Your nit-picking on this one issue doens't hide IMO you larger mission of trying to discredit Plumlee for more significant things he did later on - I'd suggest people not be fooled by what is rather transparently going on here. Again, it is what you don't discuss and address I find more significant that the minor points you try to score. Peter: If you'd just ignore this bs perhaps it might stop. Don't feed it. The "ignore" feature works wonders. Hmmmmmm

That totally jumped out for me too, Myra. I hope that Senator Kennedy will refer to his brother's beautiful speech of hope and peace when he makes his announcement. To this day I cannot read (or hear) those words without crying. Dawn

I thought I'd add some other views re. Carl's new book. I have not yet read it. And, since he is a dear friend of mine now since 1973, I would not be the best to comment as I could hardly claim any unbias. I know that this book was a very long labor of love for Carl, and written during several health crises. So if there are errors, I can say that none were intentional: memory can be a funny thing. I know without doubt that there was no malice intended. Carl has always been a passionate advocate for peace and justice. First as an antiwar leader, then as a brilliant writer and analyst on the assassination of JFK. His work The Yankee and Cowboy War remains a masterpiece. Dawn Editorial Reviews Review "Carl Oglesby navigates readers through the passions, turbulence, excess, division, and movement politics of a period in American history that forever changed all who experienced it. A wild ride through the good and bad, success and tragedy of a wild era." -- Senator John F. Kerry "Carl Oglesby was known for his eloquence as a writer and speaker in those turbulent years of the movement against the war in Vietnam, when he was a leader of the Students for a Democratic Society. His memoir, written with grace and fervor, gives us a fascinating insight into the life and mind of a young radical as he immerses himself in one of the great social struggles of our time." -- Howard Zinn, author of The People's History of the United States "Oglesby's personal story is an American adventure told with charm, sadness, anger, and comedy. It's a racy read, in perfect pitch with the country-western songs of his southern Baptist roots. A must-read for anyone interested in 'how we got here today' from 'where we were in the Sixties'. The drama, heartache, exhilaration, and rage of the anti-Vietnam war movement feels so fresh it could be about our Iraq war dilemmas. His expansive, come-one-come-all mindset is a terrific shot in the arm. Unputdownable for activists, a breeze for the uninvolved." -- Clancy Sigal, author of A Woman of Uncertain Character "Oglesby's narrative rekindles the excitement of the 1960s when students and young professionals began making history and sensed the importance of their roles in stopping a senseless and brutal war and instigating needed social change at home. Because the book is so readable -- in an age where many students won't read "heavy prose" -- Ravens should become a text for history courses on the 1960s." -- Saul Landau, author of A Bush and Botox World "An unflinching, honest, and perceptive portrait of the sixties anti-war movement in all its promise, complexity, and contradictions. A fascinating and important book!" -- Ron Kovic, author of Born on the Fourth of July "Besides being an engaging read, this memoir about political struggle in the 1960s is a valuable document for understanding the everliving history of American liberal/radical protest." -- Michael Parenti, author of Contrary Notions and Superpatriotism Book Description In 1964, Carl Oglesby, a young copywriter for a Michigan-based defense contractor, was asked by a local Democratic congressman to draft a campaign paper on the Vietnam War. Oglesby's report argued that the conflict was misplaced and unwinnable. He had little idea that its subsequent publication would put him on a fast track to becoming the president of the now-legendary protest movement Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). In this book, Oglesby shares the triumphs and tribulations of an organization that burgeoned across America, only to collapse in the face of surveillance by the U.S. government and infighting. As an SDS leader, Oglesby spoke on the same platform as Coretta Scott King and Benjamin Spock at the storied 1965 antiwar demonstration in Washington, D.C. He traveled to war-ravaged Vietnam and to the international war crimes tribunal in Scandinavia, where he met with Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir. He helped initiate the Venceremos Brigade, which dispatched thousands of American students to bring in the Cuban sugar harvest. He reluctantly participated in the protest outside the 1968 Democratic National Convention and was a witness for the defense at the trial of the Chicago Seven the following year. Eventually, after extensive battles with those in SDS who saw its future more as a vanguard guerrilla group than as an open mass movement, Oglesby was drummed out of the organization. Shortly after, it collapsed when key members of its leadership quit to set up the Weather Underground. This beautifully written and elegiac memoir is rich in contemporary echoes as America once again must come to terms with an ill-conceived military adventure abroad. Carl Oglesby warns of the destructive frustrations of a peace campaign unable to achieve its goals. But above all, he captures the joyful liberation of joining together to take a stand for what is right and just -- the soaring and swooping of a protest movement in full flight, like ravens in a storm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Product Details

Important thread. Geez have we ever had a more murderous president than LBJ? I don't mean all the war mongering murders (Viet Nam, Iraq) but US citizens who tried to right some wrongs. No wonder The Guilty Men was taken off The History Channel and the entire series now removed as well. Last I heard Turner was also being sued. The ghost of LBJ lives on. Dawn

'John Simkin' date='Jan 27 2008, 10:29 AM' post='135237'] Good use of YouTube to promote your book. I will add the links to my page on you. Thanks John. Very moving song. I had never heard this one before. And Mark Lane's words at the COPA conference in 1998 is the part in your book I have read to so many people. That one snippet says it all. Do forum members agree with Caroline that Obama will be "a preseident like (her) father"? Dawn

Harry, You lean heavily on involvment of LDSs. It seems to me there were others, but it has always been most curious to me that there are a disproportionate [to their population] numbers of LDS persons in the CIA. I had always assumed and been told it was because in their belief system this is 'the chosen land' by god they could be relied upon for religious as well as 'patriotic' reasons to keep secrets and have a strong alliegance to the Country - no matter what. However, I'm not aware that any were high-level leaders in the Company. What makes you so suspicious of them in this matter? I wouldn't argue about some in the JBS knowing or maybe having a hand, but that they were LDS-connected is new to me. H. Hughes surrounded himself with many Mormons and CIA people and his money {I believe} helped fund Dallas. [and other covert operations] He was a controlled CIA - deep pocket, as Murdoch is today. There are others and were others. I can't see the whole thing as a LDS plot, but I'm sure many were involved. Just looking on the internet now, I came across an account of someone Mormon saying his Bishop was CIA analyst and his other Bishop was a CIA operative....and another where the CIA and other intelligence agencies are hiring them for their language skills [and belief America is God's chosen land]...as the Oligarchy that run the CIA do believe on non-theological grounds and many born-agains also do. Peter As a deeply involved member of this anti-Kennedy operation at many levels, {mapped out above}, and as one of them, even religous-wise, I was/am sadly aware of who and what was in the works. It was motivated by a no-nonsence, but erroneous spirit of patriotism. It did include former military people, and persons posing as agents of the CIA & etc. under what was a nationwide umbrella organization. The purpose, to seize control of the US. Government, an ideal I favored until 'they' actually murdered Kennedy. H. Dean Peter, I can no longer find my copy, but in the mid 70's a couple of the guys at the Assassination Information Bureau (Harvey Yazijian and Jim Kostman) wrote a piece on this very issue: Mormans high up in the CIA. I believe it was for "Gallery" or some other "skin" mag. You may recall but back in those days these kinds of publications were practically the only way serious articles on maters such as these could get published. Dawn

Another thing all these connections show is that there is really no difference between the Democratic and Republican parties when it comes to this kind of power. Brown and Root- LBJ and Bushies. I too have never seen Corcoran's name in any JFK assassination material. That he was the force behind getting LBJ on the ticket, taken with LBJ's obsession to be president is, to me , one more piece of evidence of LBJ's true involvement in JFK's murder. Means, motive and opportunity, certainly, imho Dawn.

The connection between David Philips, Howard Hunt, Allen Dulles and LBJ is Tommy Corcoran. I believe there is not doubt that LBJ ordered the murder of Henry Marshall and that it was done by Mac Wallace. Reading your page on Tommy Corcoran, and then following this up with the post that talk about McCone and your page on him being taken down, threats you received, was a very useful exercise to reacquaint myself regarding these connections. I think John that you have come as close to solving the question of who killed JFK as we will ever get. Glad also that you are looking again at the "TX. connection" to the murder of JFK. Dawn

Watched Nixon recently and realised, again, just how good Stone is, so I look forward to his latest... From what I have read it sounds like he is trying to distance himself from the Stone of JFK. (A fair and balanced look at his life overall, not a critique of Bush the election stealer). But I am sure nonetheless it will be an excellent film. For those who missed Nixon, check it out, it is brilliant. Anthony Hopkins is a joy to behold. Dawn

I think that time has proven that Epstein was a plant from the start. (His views on Files are another matter. Many people don't buy into the Files tale but that does not make them disinfo artists.) Dawn

Dawn, Here is a complete (but probably not chronological) list of the questions I've put, with answers received: Q: Is it now accepted that Tosh's enlistment into the National Guard was legal? A: No response [current comment. Question was based on incorrect premise, as it now appears it was not legal] Q: If not, why not? A: No response [current comment. Those two questions were based on an incorrect premise, as it now appears it was not legal] Q: The separation form indicates zero overseas service. Was this an innocent error, or deliberate cover-up? A: No response Q: How does the separation form help support the VA statement concerning being Korean Vet, given that in reality it contradicts it? A: No response Q: The MPs in the DMZ were UN. You were attached to the UN? A: No response Q: Do you believe you were targeted for this [special Ops as a youth] because of your police record? A: I had a choice go into the army or go to Jev until 18 then jail. I was told this by the FBI and the Judge on the case. anyway and they approved my enlistment. Q: Was parental consent requested and granted? A: They (the court close door chambers) told my mother and father it would be best for me, because if I kept going the way I was I would be in prison by the time I was 20. However, they did not sign any papers. I joined anyway They (the court, the FBI, and the Army) new I was in the Texas National Guard as a tank driver, Sherman. My parents did not know I went into the regular army until I came home on leave from Ft Bliss. They just thought I ran away again and the law would bring me back. I was accepted into the regular army and they (the army) knew of my probation and age. In fact my real age and birth date is on my discharge papers which have been posted... as well as where I worked as a aircraft mech at Southwest Airmotive (they got me that job at Southwest.... I agreed to be hon discharged and sent back to Dallas until I turned 18 of which I did. and I went back to work at Southwest (note: I was ran over by a jeep at Ft Bliss in 1954 and was at Wm Baumont Army Hospital for 14 days.) Q: You either want this studied properly, or you don't. Which is it? A: No response Eight questions - two responses. By my reckoning, that's 25% answered... not 100%. However, I'd be glad to be shown wrong if you can point me to where the other answers are. I now accept, given Tom has pointed out the discharge reason indicates he was a "minor", that it was not legal. As for what happened when he was 14... it appears likely he joined the NG underage, was found out and discharged. After a period of time, he joined the USAR underage and deliberately withheld information about previous enlistment in the NG because he knew that info would tip them off to his real age (through previous serial #). This explains why he was issued a different serial # on this occasion. If Tosh had come clean on this at the outset, no "nitpicking" about it would have been required. That was one of the only two questions he answered. It was not brought up again. It's not directly relevant to what happened later, and I had already acknowledged as much. It does go to the question of reliability. Not that I would word it quite the same way... but agree with the general thrust of it. In fact, I have provided very specific examples in this forum. He said he could handle the hard questions... I didn't think that meant getting into a snit about them. If you, Tosh or anyone else believes I am hindering his ability to get his story out, I'd be happy to call a moratorium on any further comments or questions until he's completed posting the rest of his information. I will then make any comments, ask any questions I think are warranted. He can answer them, ignore them, or complain about them. Entirely his choice. I really would like to believe some positive leads can be generated. Perhaps one should pick a few more "Nits"! 1. The "National Defense" Service Medal is awarded to all members of the NG/USAR/USA/RA, immediately upon enlistment. 2. After one has served for two years in any component, and has not been a "bad boy"/aka received any judicial (Courts Martial) and/or non-judicial punishment (Article 15), one is automatically awarded the "Good Conduct" Medal. 3. For ANY service in the Korean Theater, to include serving on a ship within the Terrirorial Waters, one receives the "Armed Forces Expeditionary Force" Medal (automatically awarded, just as are the National Defense Medal, the Good Conduct Medal, the Vietnam Service and Vietnam Campaign Medals) 4. Full record of RECORDED DAYS OF SERVICE in all components of the Armed Forces (Army in this case) is an ESSENTIAL ELEMENT OF INFORMATION, as it represents one's pay status* as well as ultimate represents that information necessary in order to compute time counted in achieving the 20-years of service required for normal retirement benefits. *Example: Most of those who received their Commission to 2nd Lt. with me had less than two years of actual service. Thus, their base pay was approximately $250.00 per month. Due to prior service in the MS National Guard, as well as RA-Enlisted active duty service, I went to "Over-2" years of credited service immediately after having been commissioned, and thusly, my base pay was approximately $500.00 per month. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.tpub.com/content/administration...s/14214_213.htm BASIC PAY The pay of service members is prescribed by law. Members are entitled to receive pay according to their paygrades and years of service if they are on active duty in a pay status and not otherwise prohibited by law from receiving such pay. Basic pay is the primary means of compensating members of the uniformed services. Except for certain periods of unauthorized absence, excess leave, and confinement after an enlistment has expired, every active duty member is entitled to basic pay on a regular basis. The rate of basic pay is determined by a member’s paygrade and length of service. Personnel having the same paygrade and time in service normally make more money than personnel in a lower paygrade and with less time in service. So you can see how paygrade and length of service are factors consider in determining how much a person gets paid Emphasis added! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Correct calculation of actual credited days served in any component of the armed forces is absolutly essential for retirement computation purposes as well as credit for pay purposes. Some of us, who actually have "Credited Time" for service in the "Inactive/aka" National Guard, as well as credited time for "Active/aka RA-enlisted", actually know how to read a DD214, and thusly would not normally be dumb enough to post one which directly contradicts what one is attempting to sell. Sir I respect your tours of duty (if any) and your military lineage. And I respect your opinions of me. If it makes you feel better to slam me and infer I am a xxxx and have never done or been what I say..., then that is O.K. too. I am not here to prove anything to you. However, for you to talk about medals, law, and the likes and apply all that to establish your self serving fact to cover your false observations about something you know nothing about is the mark of a very stupid man. I could question your motives and I too could get into a pisxxing match with you on various matters... but you would not comprehend and would keep rattling about matters you know nothing about...... I will not justified my existence to you are anybody... so you keep on turning and churning and calling "white black" and "black white" the likes.... It makes no difference to me. Sir I don't give a damn who you are or what you think you know about me, or What you think you are in the world of life..... I do not care what you post and I care less about the information feed to you by those who hide behind their BS and get people like you to wash their dirty linen to cover their tracks. I do know them and too, I know their motives..... Your nose is so brown I can see it from here. I know your type; a hanger on from another planet I believe. If you have something to say to me then say it straight out in one complete sentence. You do not have to back it up.., just say it..... I respect your views, but being the type person you are, I do not expect you to respect me or my life. So be it. You go on and suck up this space and others time with your views and expertise and self serving manner. That is ok with me. But if you have to do it... do it professional. Better yet I will say it for you... I'm full of Crap.. (Oh you said that) I have never done the things I have said and proven... OH Yes, You Said That. I did not prove anything its all lies and fabrications in your view. Right? OH you said that.... You have established your point. Now would you care to contribute constructively to the research to this Forum in its search for the truth of the JFK assassination?.. Would you care to record your views and put them out their for others to review and question you on?. Do you have an opinion about this case and can you contribute something factual and constructive one way or the other.... or are you just the type that does not have an opinion... You have an opinion about me and go to pains to express it.... Can you go through that same 'pain" and time, to put your thought down for the members of this forum to evaluate? I think not...its easier to slam me and others and create a false illusion of smoke and mirrors. I have wasted enough time with the likes of you.... I have to move on... you have shown me nothing When it comes to OPS your less than nothing... and so is your friend... XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx Tosh: FWIW, You'd save yourself a whole lot of time and energy if you just ignored the stuff Purv and his ilk write. That he is a lone nutter should say it all. His opinion of you, your military record and life is of zero value and you should give it exactly that. There are people on this forum engaging in meaningful questions and research for you. They are sincere about this case. Save your time and energy and words for them. Just my opinion of course. Dawn

Judith came home from hospital yesterday. Her kidneys are still not working and she is having to go to hospital three times a week for dialysis. This is a major problem because she cannot take the anti-cancer drugs until her kidneys start working again. John That is wonderful that she has rallied enough to come home. Hopefully her kidneys will resume functions and she can continue with the anti- cancer medication. Dawn

Duncan: Tim Gratz called me one day out of the blue and we had a very pleasant talk. I have spoken with Tosh MANY times and I can assure you they are two totally different people. Tosh came back to try to help. When he has been asked a question he answered it. See posts between Tosh and Charles Drago, or posts between Tosh and Francisca (apologise for not knowing the spelling). He also answered Greg Parker's many questions. Then Bill Kelly's, answered today. And Purvis's ...but then the nit picking started. Constantly asking about what happended at age 14. If his entry into the Nat'l Guard was done so legally, if there existed parental signatures and the like. How on earth is this at all relevent to the issue of what Tosh was involved in LATER? We know that kids got pulled into military/ intel situations. Of course it was not under any "usual" circumstances. Our wonderful government does not play by the rules when it comes to using kids for their dirty deeds. Then a very important documet that Tosh put up disappeared two days ago. He did not take it down. The certified copy of his mil record showing he was a corporal at but 16 and 18. Fortunately Tosh had also sent this to Peter who re-posted it, but not a very good copy, so Tosh has also now reposted it. Tosh re-posted an old post by Hemming where he called Tosh names and used the A word. Tosh was edited. I understand the rules and abide by them. His point is that people here are calling him a xxxx, by implication and the mods say nothing, but if he posts the A word he is put on moderation. Perhaps he is being overly sensitive about this point (the A word stuff). But he has taken a lot of time this last week to try to respond with real and useful information. He's answered questions. Specific questions with specific answers. But the continual nitpitcking has gotten old for me. And I see that it has for him as well. Seems he can't win. Dawn

Thank you Peter. In July 1976, Tosh contacted the FBI on multiple occasions about various matters. On the last occasion, the FBI noted "he was advised that it would be easier to understand his associations and activities if he would organize them on paper and furnish his information to the FBI in that matter rather than in disjointed telephone calls. Plumlee agrees this would be best and he would attempt to organize his recollections on paper." I hope he will agree to do a similar thing here, and put all the stuff he thinks is relevant into one or two threads - even if condensed down into dot points. Trying to follow the story through multiple threads... misplaced docs... and general rambling commentaries (enjoyable as they may be in their own right) make it difficult. Greg: Tosh told me yesterday before he left for a trip that he updated his bio for John, so I think this update will provide you with a lot of information, all in one place. Tosh is going to be gone for awhile on work totally unrelated to this case. I have spoken with him a lot the last week and he feels a bit frustrated in that he "can't prove a negative". ALso when he answers people's questions, or drops intersting leads asking some forum member to follow up there is often no response. He has felt encouraged by a couple of members here. I hope that when (if) he comes back to the forum members will not engage in nickpicking but move on to research that is germaine. Dawn

Peter: This looks like the document, and I am on the phone with Terry right now too and she is also looking at it, but the places that said "53-cpl" and "55 cpl" are not on this document. Tosh told me he had sent you the same document that got removed. For the record Tosh did not remove this document, and would like to know how it got removed. Dawn.

What the heck is going on here? Where is the military record of Tosh Plumlee that was with his post.? That gave his ages, said "certified" etc. ?????????? Dawn