Dawn Meredith

Dawn, Does Ashton Gray actually say there's no-shot-from-the-front, or does he say there's no bullet wound in the throat? I don't think he address at all the issues of a frontal bullet hole in the limo window or a head shot from the front, but maybe I didn't read all of that thread or missed something. And thanks to PMB for link to those videos. I especially like the one on JFK speech on Secret Societies, which deserves its own thread. I'm glad PMB is here as she can help us address the issues surrounding Crime Scene #1 - SS100X, about which she is a foremost authority. BK BK: He said both, but since he is no longer here I would be the last person to speak for him. Dawn

I suggest that NO-ONE answer any of Tim's questions until he makes good on the promises posted to Robert Charles-Dunne and Bill Kelly. Dawn

Thanks Pamela. Those members who were persuaded by the no-shot- from -the- front argument advanced by Ashton Gray would do well to acquaint themselves with the information you have documented. Dawn

Tim: Isn't your boy Hagee a tad confused, or did you just manage to miss this? And before you respond I am simply posting this, not getting itno a conversation here. Dawn John Hagee Claims That Jesus Christ Was Not The Messiah Posted by healtheland on October 27th, 2007 Hagee’s transformation from legitimate evangelical preacher to endtimes charlatan to political powerbroker espousing right wing dual covenant theology to Noachide Gentile is complete. That is him. My question is why do people continue to sit in this fellow’s church, and why haven’t other major preachers started denouncing him. As a matter of fact, as I have stated earlier, Hagee remains a trustee at Oral Roberts University. Is the great apostasy, the great falling away, underway yet? I say not yet. But the seeds for it are being sown. Update: I have cut and pasted the information from the article below, because it appears that most are not clicking on the link: “I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit—I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, the people of Israel. (Romans 9:1-4) Do We Believe Hagee Or Do We Believe God? In the video clip below you will hear for yourself John Hagee say his book In Defense Of Israel “will shake Christian theology.” And further that, “it Scripturally proves…that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah… It will prove…Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah…” However, God the Holy Spirit informs us in John’s eyewitness deposition we call the Gospel of John – The woman said, “I know that Messiah (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.” Then Jesus declared, “I Who speak to you am He” (John 4:25-26). So whose testimony are you going to believe? Hagee or God. The Truth is that Dr. John MacArthur is correct when he says, “An individual Jew today is saved like anybody else is, by faith in Christ. And, apart from that, there is no salvation.” (Online source) Sola Dei Gloria also weighs in on this blatant heresy of Hagee here.“ apprising.org/archives/2007/10/john_hagee_says.html This entry was posted on Saturday, October 27th, 2007 at 11:14 am and is filed under Christianity, John Hagee, false doctrine, false preacher, false teachers, false teaching. . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your

Ashton: As you know I totally disagree with your "no- shot -from- the- front" thesis. That said, you know I believe other work you were doing here, particularily on the black ops thread, as well as the timeline, was extremely important. I have always advocated just ignoring Gratz. (When that fails- read and re-read Charles Drago's most recent post on the black ops thread. Humor helps.) As for John B, and his tactics, many views were posted last weekend, then the thread was removed. Is this place "evolving"? Dawn

None. Kantor knew well who Ruby was. What would be his motivation to lie? Dawn

Brilliant Charles, beautifully written. Another "must have" book. LHO's life is one of never- ending facination. Research like this is deeply rewarding. And thanks to John B. for starting the Evica thread to begin with. Others have reached the same conclusions regarding the true purpose of the "Cold War". And certainly LHO's "defection" to Russia. It's all "smoke and mirrors". The deceptions astound the mind. And yes, the all- too- real blood. Dawn

[quote name='Tim Gratz' date='Oct 29 2007, 04:34 AM' post='124801'] To consider Robert Charles-Dunne's post just boggles the mind. First, he denies that he ever suggested I lied about my contacts with Mrs. Eisenhower. But then he implies that I might have made up the post from Mark Howell and manufactured an e-mail address for him to further that fiction! Just astounding. Tim: I suggest you try re-reading Robert's post. It was very clear. Then I would echo Bill Kelly's sentiment, that you remove these discussions from this most important thread. If you must hijack it, start a new thread to do so. That you would try to silence a potential witness in this manner is very troubling, imho. (And I will not post further in this thread on this off topic matter). Dawn

Evan: I was not trying to "start" anything. But given the bad blood of late around John B's posts re Gratz, I culd not see why he was wanting to start this up again. But I am out of this thread. Dawn

And your point is? Tim, this is beating a dead horse. But you seem to enjoy such. Dawn

There is another Gratz entry found here... just enter Gratz as the last name. http://compendium.olr.wicourts.gov/app/search That would not be our Tim Gratz would it? The proper, intellectually honest manner in which to debate/ and or discredit Tim Gratz may be found in the Bradley Ayers thread: the dialogues between Bill Kelly, Robert Charles-Dunne and Tim Gratz. (In the JFK Assssination debate section). Dawn

Actually, at the time, I did not think it was a real kidnap, but something to get the assassination off the front pages. (At 14 I was already very critical when it came to this case). Dawn I met Frank Sinatra Jr in 1971. He was appearing on the Steel Pier in Atlantic City. We bought "Reserved Seats": $0.25. But he was great and not a nervous bone in his body. Later, when we were getting his autograph, a woman went up to him and mentioned his father. Jr was surprised about this and pulled away as fast as he could from the crowd. He was with a plain blonde woman. Anyway, I got his line: "You're very pretty, aren't you?" His autograph read "Mr. Sinatra." The kidnapping was for real. I think 2 men did jail time. But your mention of it diverting interest from the Assassination makes me wonder. It's possible Karyn Kupcinet was murdered to shock Chicago -- where everyone knew her and her family -- and get people to talk about that rather than the Mobsters in Chicago. If so, I bet it was on the order of Paul "Red" Dorfman. Irv Kupcinet was looking for the Chicago angle of the Assassination because of Ruby. Ruby shooting Oswald was shedding light on the Mafia in Chicago. Because of Ruby's actions, people began to believe the mob were responsible for Kennedy's death. This was unwanted evidently. They wanted a diversion. Thanks for your insight, Dawn. Kathy Sounds like it was a ransom demand... and the perps were tried and convicted thereof. Frankly, the thesis that Ruby's background as a known mobster somehow allegedly played into the mix does not hold water unless anyone can show that this was a generally open theory on Dec 8 1963 (I do not recall seeing anything on this issue in the historical printed record until maybe the Spring of 1964 and American Opinion Mag) and of course, it sort of begs the question regarding Mob involvement. "Well SINCE mobsters were involved and SINCE Ruby was a well known mobster as of Dec 8, 1963 THEREFORE it WAS or COULD have been a deliberate plan to divert the attention from the heat being put on the Mob." They were NOT heavily involved IMHO and they had not yet been "implicated" by anyone. Ruby was NOT even a well known mobster on that date. He was a small time hood. There was NO HEAT on the Mob that I can discover on that date until the Far Right first attacked his Jewish heritage then only later his Mob affiliations, which were pretty weak. It WAS a kidnap for financial benefit. It was not a warning shot fired over the bow to his Father. Therefore your hypothesis seems to self destruct IMHO. In a bizarre incident, Sinatra was kidnapped in December 8, 1963 at Harrah's Lake Tahoe and released two days later after his father paid out the US$240,000 ransom demanded by the kidnappers, who were later captured, prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced to long prison terms. Gladys Root represented one of the kidnappers. In order to communicate with the kidnappers via pay telephone, as per their demands, his father carried a roll of dimes with him throughout this ordeal, which became a life-long habit. Frank Sinatra, Jr. did not seem to be overly scarred by this event. The kidnapping has been later explained in Act Three of the "Plan B" episode from the radio narrative show, This American Life by Barry Keenan, one of the kidnappers. The kidnapping is portrayed in the 2003 made-for-TV movie Stealing Sinatra, which is based on Barry Keenan's story. At the time of trial, Keenan attempted to make it appear that Sinatra, Jr. himself was a willing conspirator in his own kidnapping. This allegation didn't stand up in court, but still proved to be fodder for late-night TV jokes and negative publicity for Frank, Jr.'s career. Interesting that the 12/8 date keeps popping up. (And I don't mean to imply that I continue to believe that the kidnap was a diversion, that was just my view at the time, at age 14. John cites wiki that Sinatra was released two days later. My memory from '63 is that this "incident" -whatever it was- went on for some time. (which is what made me so suspious of it). 12/8/72: The Dorothy Hunt/ Michelle Clark et al plane crash, (murder in my opinion). 12/8/80- John Lennon's murder, although not a lot of investigation has been done here Fenton Bresler's book "Who killed John Lennon? " makes some very intersting MC kinds of arguments. I would like to see this matter more fully explored. Dawn

Anyone wishing to read the views of Lisa Pease can go to her blog, which I am linking. For all his (valid) criticisms of Tim Gratz I see this newcomer to the forum engages in similar smear tactics. (I do agree with much of what he has written, and on the Hiss matter we had a couple of favorable exchanges.) Lisa does not need defending from the likes of this smear job. As been pointed out by others -(notably, David Guyatt)- the second you disagree with this guy then he begins to smear you. I am not taking the bait further. People can look at Lisa's work for themselves and come to their own conclusions Dawn Lisa Pease lpease@gte.net Blog: http://realhistoryarchives.blogspot.com Site: www.realhistoryarchives.com Book: The Assassinations "Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day." - Thomas Jefferson

John I repeat my request that you apologise to Lisa here on the forum, where is is not a member, or document your absurd claims, which you will never be able to do because they are lies. According to Len Osanic the claims you are making about Prouty are equally false. And according to a well known researcher on alt.conspiracy.jfk you post under various names. (I will go back and copy and paste Martin's remark), but first someone else wrote something in defense of Lisa, that I will post. MODS: apology for some of the cuss words, this person posted it on his blog, and I have no way of editing it. (I tried) . Lisa is a dedicated and totally liberal researcher. How someone can just post such false and liebelous statements about someone about whom they don't have a clue is beyond me. Like Lisa told me yesterday "If the Jews were trying to control the world why isn't Israel bigger?". (She has also, BTW, written in defense of Alger Hiss) Dawn Post re Lisa below: Saturday, October 27, 2007 John Bevilaqua. XXXXXXXX! Its alarming that jealousy often rears its head in alarming ways. John Bevilaqua, a 4th rate Kennedy Assassination researcher had escaped my gaze for sometime. Bevilaqua's take on the Kennedy assassination is that Nazi's were behind the assassination. I can't argue that there may have been a number of people involved in the crime that had facist tendencies but thats about as truthful as the Nazi's committing the crime actually gets. Bevilaqua, got my attention via a blog on the Spartacus Website which condemned my good friend Lisa Pease as a Nazi sympathiser and racist. The comments attributed to Miss Pease a dedicated Leftist who makes any Democrat blush are shocking. Indeed, they are down right utter lies. How he can ally someone like Lisa with Alpha 66 and John McAdams is a terrible case of bad judgement............or is it. I have had the oppurtunity to spend a great deal of time with Lisa. Now, this blog is gonna be a little sycophantic here but I just don't give a XXXX! Theres a scarcity of truth out there and Lisa is brave enough and smart enough to be amongst the top 5 Kennedy researchers currently operating. Perhaps thats the reason people like Bevilaqua are beginning to target her now? Bevilaqua proudly boasts his left wing credentials in a similar fashion to a supposed leftist who was shot dead in a certain Dallas basement in 1963. His views on the assassination like I have said are way way way way way off. He's a disinformationist with a vindictive streak a mile long. Why on earth, Bevilaqua would attack Lisa Pease when idiots like Icke who also considers himself a Kennedy assassination expert spouts some truly borderline stuff is beyond me. In my opinion Bevilaqua is a 2nd rate intelligence agent wannabe. Indeed he's so second rate I even agree with John 'BS Central' McAdams about him. Indeed, Bevilaqua and John McAdams are both people I liken to ( )sandwiches with peanut butter shoved up their XXXXX. If Lisa sues and I hope she does she will have my total and utter support. 5:01 PM - 0 Comments - 0 Kudos - Add Comment

__________________________ Dawn, You are correct. Here's the Spartacus bio of Ms Pease: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKpease.htm --Thomas P.S. Maybe Spartacus is a Far Right website! LOL _________________________ Here are some of Lisa Pease's positions usually associated with far rightists... She has made many postings about: "Not a McCarthyite. Otepka has often been unfairly portrayed as a right-wing clone of Senator Joe McCarthy." In fact he was a right-wing clone of Joe McCarthy. See my postings about Otepka and what he said to defend perhaps the number one right winger in the history of the 20th Century. She was a close friend of and a strong supporter of the thesis proposed by Professor Donald Gibson when he he pointed the finger at the "Bolshevik Hadassic money lenders so prevalent on Wall Street..." i.e. The Jews did it! COPA Conference Washington, DC 1992 or 1993 timeframe... She was very close with L. Fletcher Prouty who once said something to the effect of: 'I don't know when the Kennedys came over on the boat from Ireland, my family has been here for at least 6 generations... but they sure thought they could just come in here and take over the country and tell us how to run things. Guess we showed them a thing or two.' COPA Conference Washington, DC 1992 or 1993 timeframe... She was also seen conferring with the Barry Goldwater's son lookalike at the same conference who confided to me... "Colonel Prouty is just like us on the "N**ger issues" She doesn't bother to mention that Otepka was fired for leaking classified documents regarding the background of Walt Rostow in an attempt to make the Kennedys, Rostow, Rusk and Acheson look bad. What he was charged with was... unlawfully leaking classified documents to SISS.... She has NEVER bothered to repudiate Gibson, Prouty or Otepka, or McCarthy. Anyone who falls in that category has to be classified as right wing.... Sorry... And where in her profile does it refer to anything from the right or the left? You have to go to these conferences and talk to people in back hallways and let them reveal themselves to you. For a while she even supported parts of the Michael Collins Piper thesis that the Jews were behind the JFK hit. Come on does that sound left wing to you or centrist? I know you never heard about Prouty's comments or Gibsons comments but certainly you must be able to look into my Otepka posts and the story of Otepka and realize that he could have been jailed for his transgressions. IF only someone had mentioned the leaking of classified documents to you. Only here to straighten out the record. Otherwise Otepka and McCarthy would get off scot free from the historical record to perpetuity. Lisa Pease happens to be a friend of mine and what you have written here are complete lies, and in fact libelous. Since she is not even here to defend herself I am asking that you apologize on this forum. LIsa has NEVER defended Piper, in fact she has fought him both privately and publicly. Never repudiated McCarthy? You've got to be kidding. "Seen conferring with the Barry Goldwater son lookalike" ? Now that's evidence. Who "confided in you", that someone used the N world? Not Lisa. Never. Prouty? I doubt that. Dawn

You're the best, Charles. Ditto! (Opps, for the record I NEVER listen to Rush). Dawn

[quote name='Charles Drago' date='Oct 26 2007, 07:39 PM' post='124424'] Dawn, To me, the bottom line -- and I use the term in its twin meanings -- is that an attack on Iran will happen if it has been deemed to be profitable and controllable. Bush is irrelevant. Also, profitable and controllable. The CA fires terrorism card nearly was played. Did anyone else hear a report of the shooting to death, by police, of at least one arsonist caught in the act? Charles Charles: yes, I did hear of the shooting death. I wish I could share your view that such an attack would be "controllable". I think Cheney and Co. are dangerous and beyond scary. Remember this is, after all, "the axis of evil". The US- has also brought back the Cold War, only this time it's blazing. The US is in a most dangerous and vulnerable position in the world. The bullies of the universe, and who can blame the rest of the planet for looking with scorn at the US? Yup it's all about oil. But it is also out of control,imho. Dawn

This incredible film-"The Trials of Alger Hiss" - convinced me of the the framing of Hiss when I saw it in Cambridge MA in 1980. Obviously, I disagree with the last part of this review. Dawn Review Summary Kicking off the Red Scare in the 1950s and launching Richard Nixon's career, Alger Hiss, an important State Department official, was convicted of perjury in the spying charges raised against him by Time Magazine managing editor Whittaker Chambers and sent to prison until 1954. The case was notorious then and for years afterward. At the end of the 1970s, director John Lowenthal got his hands on documents that had been suppressed from Hiss's trials and spent a total of $400,000 making this documentary on Hiss. He interviews jurors and others connected with the case, provides a historical background of the Cold War, and details the suppressed evidence that the jurors never heard. Among these documents is the telling, hand-written statement by Whittaker Chambers that he was a homosexual and by his actions and words, a very depressed and unstable man. Though he himself does not say so in the statement, his behavior before and after the trial and other evidence suggests that he may have been infatuated with Hiss and angry when he was rejected. Lowenthal implies that this may have been the reason for Chambers's accusation. But time has, frankly, not been kind to Lowenthal's documentary on Hiss; Lowenthal claims that Chambers's confession of homosexuality and other more substantial evidence, such as FBI tampering with the results of a typewriter test and the statement of a Soviet official that no documentation on Hiss as a spy could be found in the archives of the former Soviet Union, make a case for Hiss' innocence. Lowenthal doubtless intended his film to become a tool for the exoneration of Hiss, much as Errol Morris would free Randall Dale Adams with The Thin Blue Line. But evidence discovered since 1980 (the year of this film's production), specifically the declassification of the Venona Papers by Daniel Patrick Moynihan in the mid-nineties that occurred after the collapse of the Soviet Union, demonstrate that Hiss was indeed a spy for the U.S.S.R - thus proving fallacious the claim made by this documentary. ~ Eleanor Mannikka, All Movie Guide Movie Details

Thanks Gary for the terrifying reminder of just how fascist this country has become. Not that John does not have his points, yes we have always had vicious hate groups who had enormous power, lives were destroyed (including that of Alger Hiss!); people murdered, coups here (JFK) and around the planet by our secret government. However, this gang of thugs -the neo cons who brought us PNAC- have utterly dismantled the Constitution. Anyone of us here can now be rounded up and imprisoned and have absolutely no right to anything. As an attorney I take our Consitiution most seriously and to have lived through these past 7- or so years has been nothing short of terrifying. I can no longer watch the news without feeling SICK. Dawn

The neo-cons are using the exact same language for a "pre-emptive strike on Iran" that they used for Iraq. It is indeed terrifying. Because this time they are talking nuclear. Even Condi Rice, who was at least pretending to employ diplomacy, is jumping on the bandwagon. The terrible fires we had in CA. all week were being called "terrorism" for a few days. Now just the word "arson' is being used. When you have the likes of Bush using the words "world war three" one has to be most worried. Dawn

[quote name='John Bevilaqua' date='Oct 26 2007, 05:40 PM' post='124406'] Yet another Otto Otepka defender from the Right... Lisa Pease. Lisa Pease "from the RIGHT"?. Very far from it. Dawn

Nice one, BUT can you find any VIDEO that confirms the had is not heading to the right place and that this photo is just snapshot of the motion in progress. I asked he same about the Obama photo and was pointed to the video.... As a non-American this example of political correctness is frightening. In the UK we are free to do what we like with our hands when the national anthem is being played. Some of our sportsmen representing their country refuse to sing the national anthem because they are Republicans. When I was a young man I used to refuse to stand when the national anthem was played in the cinema or theatre. I was not the only one and during the 1970s they stopped playing it before and after performances. Don't you allow freedom of thought in the United States? Good question John. And the answer is increasingly becoming "no". Extreme right wing "hate" radio has been brain washing people in the US for so long that this country has become a frightening place. Just last week, after some criticism directed at the methods employed by Rush Limbaugh he said of his critics that he would "find where you work, find where your children go to school". There is no line any more for the far right. Dawn

Carl Oglesby had the same problem, but it began with SDS and continued up throught all his JFK assassination work. He spent years (via Jim Lesar) suing for his FBI files and when he finally got them (replete with redactions)- the boxes literally filled a room! (And we always say something"fun" on the phone for the benefit of the NSA, lest they are STILL llistening.) This is not paranoia folks. Anyone who believes that is naive. BTW John, are you ever going to get the rest of The Yankee and Cowboy War scanned? (Merci) Dawn

There is nothing "paranoid" about being concerned as to why his e-mails will not go through to a fellow conspiracy researcher , when there is no problem with them being delivered to anyone else . Your comment is as uncalled for as the "Paranoid" YouTube video that Burton posted here ... Why do you always feel the necessity to post insults to Jack ? .. Jack: I sent you an email early this morning before court. Did you receive it? (You usually respond promptly). I am posting this- (albeit with hesitation)- because I am concerned about all the problems you are having. First the forum, now email. This does seem quite odd. Dawn

So glad to see Ashton and Charlie here, it was looking like an entire lone nut thread. Dawn