Thomas Graves

Well, I see that Paul Trejo has posted on another thread since I created this one, so I can only assume that he has no interest in answering my question. Which leads me to the logical conclusion that he was never able to prove that Hemming met with Morales and Bannister before the assassination. Bummer. -- Tommy Tommy, I first saw your post this very minute. It's a great question. To answer briefly: No, I have not yet confirmed whether or not mercenary Gerry Patrick Hemming ever met with CIA agent David Morales, or with radical right politician, Guy Banister. I have only surmised that Hemming and Banister met, because Hemming and his "Interpen" Cuba Raid group were active throughout the South, and Guy Banister was closely connected with the paramilitary training camp near Lake Pontchartrain, allegedly financed by Carlos Marcello who owned the property. As for Weberman's "Nodule 10," which claims than some FBI memo of April 11, 1963, said that Gerry Patrick Hemming "was in Dallas in April, 1963, before someone took a potshot at General Walker on April 10, 1963, that is news to me. However -- the personal papers of General Walker at UT Austin contain a written correspondence between Hemming and Walker. Gerry Patrick Hemming himself said that he and members of Interpen had visited General Walker in Dallas after the potshot. The Interpen guys sat on Walker's back porch, smoking and drinking and sharing war stories for an afternoon. Hemming actually said (and I think it was on this very FORUM shortly before he died) that he was surprised at how calm and cool that General Walker behaved, sitting next to the very same window through which the potshot came. Hemming wondered at the time whether General Walker had simply staged the shooting for publicity purposes. Also, Loran Hall did admit that he tried to extract money from General Walker to support his own Cuba Raid group, "La Sambra." This was after Hall and Hemming had split up, I surmise. So, Hemming himself said he was with General Walker after the potshot. We must remember, too, that early in 1963 Walker had already won a few court cases against the Associated Press for broadcasting the facts that General Walker had led the racial riots at Ole Miss in September 1962. The rumor was spread that General Walker had millions, and wanted to spend it to invade Cuba. That's a big reason that Gerry Patrick Hemming and Loran Hall tried to cozy up to Walker in 1963. We know this from the written correspondence found in Walker's personal papers. Regards, --Paul Trejo Paul, The point I was trying to make is that the informant in the document seemed to suggest that the last day he was aware of Hemming's being in Dallas was March 25, and that Webberman had somehow misinterpreted it to mean that Hemming had been in Dallas "in early April." --Tommy

We all know that Oswald was a bit of a renegade. Maybe he was told to wait by the phone or the back door for some other "mission" and simply didn't follow instructions. Or, he may even have suspected that he was being set up and decided to go outside so someone might notice him there and be will to testify to that effect later, if necessary. Which reminds me of a thought I had recently: Isn't it interesting that no one claimed to have noticed "Prayer Man / Prayer Woman" ? Also, has anyone ever identified the old-looking lady (wearing a black raincoat and a scarf on her head and carrying a large bag / purse) who is waiting to get back into the TSBD in the same Hughes footage that "caught" a neanderthalish-looking Lovelady smoking a cigarette? Is it possible that she was "Prayer Man" ? --Tommy

Well, I see that Paul Trejo has posted on another thread since I created this one, so I can only assume that he has no interest in answering my question. Which leads me to the logical conclusion that he was never able to prove that Hemming met with Morales and Bannister before the assassination. Bummer. -- Tommy

Robert, If LHO was only a "bit player" about whose location during the assassination the big boys didn't care, then I don't understand why they arranged in advance for his rifle (or a rifle that could be traced to him) to be found on the sixth floor. Or was the Klein's money order, etc, and the "finding" of the MC just part of a very complicated after-the-fact cover up, in your opinion? What kind of "bit player" role do you think the big boys might have given him, anyway? Regarding your idea that Plan B might have been substituted for Plan A at the last minute, how reasonable do you think the plotters were to not make sure that Oswald stayed out of sight, period, in case the last-minute switcheroo became necessary? --Tommy

Hi Paul, As you may have noticed, I've "been away" for awhile, which would explain why there are a lot of posts I haven't read yet. Which leads me to the question: Were you ever able to confirm whether or not Hemming met with Morales and Bannister? PS I think I've found a small discrepancy in Weberman's "Nodule 10" in which he claims than a FBI document "generated" on April 11, 1963, stated that Hemming "was in Dallas IN APRIL just before someone took a potshot at General Walker on April 10, 1963." [emphasis added] When you look at the FBI document Weberman refers to, you realize that the informant told the FBI that Hemming (and Hall) "remained in Dallas on March 24 and 25," and no mention is made of either of them being in Dallas after those dates. (NARA Record Number 124-10294-10354) http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/weberman/nodule10.htm hint: press "ctrl" - "F" and type in "april 11" FWIW, -- Tommy

Denny, I've read somewhere that Oswald turned around and started walking in the other direction when he saw Tippit's car coming down the street. I don't know if it's true or not but I thought I'd throw that out there. Of course even if he did so, it doesn't prove that he assassinated JFK. Anyone else remember reading that, or am I imagining things? -- Tommy

Nice compromise, Lance. But the only thing is, I don't believe in "Harvey and Lee." A. J. Weberman thought Gerry Patrick Hemming duped LHO into believing that he (Hemming) was anti-Walker, borrowed the MC from LHO, and intentionally missed when he shot at Walker with it, (without LHO's realizing it was an intentional miss) in order to incriminate LHO for the upcoming JFK assassination. Thoughts? -- Tommy

Or, perhaps OSWALD wasn't yet an Intelligence Agent, but anxiously hoping to become one. It seems likely to me that Oswald was told that he would be rewarded with a full-time job in the CIA if the mission was successful. This is likely, IMHO, by looking at the people he associated with (per Garrison and Mellen), namely, David Ferrie, Jack S. Martin and Fred Crisman -- who were all Fake members of the CIA. It seems that Guy Banister specialized in Fakes. The Fake FPCC in New Orleans, for example, was all Banister's idea (as suggested by CE-3120 as well as other evidence). Yes, there was CIA involvement -- but at the level of killing Fidel Castro in coordination with Guy Banister and his crew. David Atlee Phillips even said (The AMLASH Legacy, 1987) that the plot to kill Castro also involved a motorcade, a tall building and a high-powered rifle. Regards, --Paul Trejo Bumping this page (not the whole thread) for Larry Hancock because I'd like to get his opinion on it. Edit: Never mind, I've just now read posts #'s 71 and 73. -- Tommy

That's excellent, Kathy. That means if Hudson and the two guys he was standing with in the Nix film were actually standing on the steps before the motorcade arrived, Bowers wouldn't have been able to see them well enough to describe them. Which suggests that the two guys that he DID see ("one wearing a white shirt and the other wearing a plaid shirt or jacket, standing 10 to 15 feet apart from each other") were on Bowers' side of the fence. -- Tommy

Paul, Yep. I guess that about sums it up. Except there are two possibilities for the second one. I.E., Oswald was either witting of the other covert operation, or he was unwitting of it. I'm going with the former of those two because it helps to simplify things AND to answer otherwise difficult (if LHO truly was innocent of assassinating JFK) questions, like why did he buy mail order guns in the first place, and why did he order them in the fictitious name of "Hidell," etc? Along that line of thought, the only reason I can think of for Hemmings' "implicating himself" in the scenario I mentioned earlier is that he was probably bragging and he knew he could get away with it. He must have known that he had a reputation as a "bullxxxxter," and regardless, that his self-incriminating allegation would be hard for others to prove. If so, he was right, as indicated by the fact that when Hemming did tell Weberman that, many years after the assassination, the only people who paid any attention to it were a few of us Crazy Conspiracy Theorists. -- Tommy bumped so soon because I've just EDITED it

See below.

See below.

Paul B., Excellent post. I had forgotten (or didn't even know) a lot of the "details" you mention. There's so much to research in the JFK assassination case, and so little time. Just a thought -- Wouldn't it really be something if Gerry Patrick Hemming was telling the truth when he said he enticed Oswald into bringing the rifle to the TSBD on or right before 11/22/63, on the pretense of wanting to buy it for twice what Oswald had paid for it? Boy, that would really be something. But I suppose that begs the question: Why would Hemming implicate himself like that? --Tommy bumped

[...] [...] Looking at these two perfectly-aligned frames with the help of the green lines, we can see that in the first frame (the one without the cars) Lovelady is standing straight up while Prayer Man is taking a picture with both hands (or drinking two-handedly from a very shiny cup full of VERY hot coffee), and that in the second frame a few seconds later (with the cars), Lovelady is leaning forward quite a bit, probably in response to having heard the shots and / or screams and wondering what the heck's going on with the President.of the United States down the street. Taking his possible reaction to the shots into consideration might help to explain why Prayer Man both lowered his hands (still clutching the camera or coffee cup in both of them) and raised his head a little at about the same time that Lovelady leaned forward -- because Prayer Man, too, had heard the shots and wanted to get a better view of what was "going down," down on Elm Street. PS Chris Davidson is to complimented for creating this excellent GIF. --Tommy PPS Lovelady's leaning forward and (probable) supporting himself by holding onto the center hand railing helps to explain why he (aka "Doorman" for some) looks so strangely-angled in Altgens 6. bumped already

"One man, middle-aged, or slightly older, fairly heavy-set, in a white shirt," If you leave out the reference to dark pants, that's a great discription of Hudson from that distance. Shame no one asked Bowers if he knew the groundsman. "Another younger man, about mid-twenties, in either a plaid shirt or plaid coat or jacket." You think the red shirt of the guy in front of Huson may of resembled a plaid shirt already very common in those days from that distance? What if he had said a red plaid shirt? IMHO the two descriptions of clothing do not stretch the imagination at all. If BM & HHM were really there(& until real high quality tests are made on the resolving power of Mary's camera set-up are made it's a big "if") then I would agree. I firmly believe there was someone shooting from behind the fence somewhere & he probably had someone with him to assist. The proposed fact that Bowers did not refer to him or them makes no difference to me, I know he did not see or describe seeing everything that happened at the time of the murder. It's also going to be a bit hard to prove that the vehicles & shrubbery hid nothing from him. Alan, As for clothing matches see:.... and Note fairly dark pants & red plaid shirt. Alan, The reasons that there is a panic on to alter Bowers' testimony are: 1.) For decades very few knew about the Bowers/Lane full & complete interview transcript made for Rush to Judgement, until Myers obtained a copy, discovered that not all of Bowers' descriptions & comments appeared in the RTJ film which everybody DID see & published his findings. Consequently, lesser researchers were hoodwinked into a false idea that Bowers was saying that he had seen possible assassins BEHIND the fence. Researchers gave public lectures based on erroneous data. Very embarrassing. 2.) Bowers' newly revealed true testimony now overthrows Ed Hoffman's story because Ed has his alleged sniper moving all about the parking lot prior to, and after the shooting. Bowers would have seen this movement & would have reported it. 3.) Bowers' newly revealed true testimony now overthrows Badgeman because Bowers could have & would have seen BM in his alleged spot as there was no masking foliage at that spot & would have seen BM move. Bowers was looking, remember, directly into this area at the time in question! Now, Bowers was NOT focusing on Duncan Man's spot. Thus, DM could have crouched behind a car & after waiting, then mingled with the crowd. So, I also believe there was a sniper BEHIND the fence. Tyrol Hatman is eliminated because he was shooting directly at the fence & into the fence palings from a distance of a few inches.. Why doesn't someone just go to where Hudson and the two other guys were standing on the steps and look at Bower's Tower from there to determine whether or not Bowers could have seen those guys from where he was? Is Bower's Tower still standing? If not, did anyone ever do this before it was demolished? -- Tommy

You simply can not trust anything that comes out of Michael Ledeen's mouth. It would not surprise me at all if what Michael Ledeen wrote was a CIA disinformation campaign. Here is Ledeen's "debunking" of the October Surprise theory by Gary Sick. It is recognized today by most authorities that there is no question that the Reagan campaign in 1980 made a dirty deal with the Iranians to NOT release the American hostages until after the 1980 election. Admiral Bobby Inman told me in a personal interview in spring, 2009 that there was "no doubt" in his mind that William Casey, Reagan's campaign manager, was making such a deal with the Iranians. Inman told me he did not think that GHW Bush was involved because "Casey hated Bush." I beg to differ, I believe that GHW Bush was involved up to his ears in the dirty dealings with the Iranians. Here is Ledeen's attempt at a debunking in June, 1992, in the middle of the campaign season that year. This, of course, is in the same time frame that George Herbert Walker Bush is using CIA assassins to terrify Ross Perot out of the 1992 campaign (see Chip Tatum, Pegasus). http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article/october-surprise-by-gary-sick/ bumped Didn't Leeden also have something to do with the falsifying / transmitting of the "Niger yellow cake uranium" memo that George W. and Cheney and Colin Powell used as a pretext for invading Iraq? --Tommy

Hi Bob! [deleted] -- Tommy

[...] [...] Looking at these two perfectly- reasonably well-aligned frames (especially of the people on the steps) and with the help of the green lines and the photographic "enhancement" of Prayer Man, we can see that Lovelady is standing straight up and that Prayer Man is taking a picture with both hands (or drinking two-handedly from a shiny cup full of very hot coffee) in the first frame (the one without the cars), and that in the second frame a few seconds later (with the cars), Lovelady is leaning forward quite a bit, probably in response to having heard the shots and / or screams and wondering what the heck's going on with the President.of the United States down the street. Taking this into consideration helps to explain why Prayer Man lowered both of his hands (still clutching the camera or coffee cup) and raised his head at about the same time that Lovelady leaned forward -- because Prayer Man, too, had heard the shots and wanted to get a better view of what was "going down," down on Elm Street. PS Who "enhanced" these frames so that PM's / PW's camera lens / coffee cup glows / shines so much more here than in the original film? I assume it was Chris Davidson, who is to complimented for doing so,and for creating this excellent GIF. --Tommy PPS Lovelady's leaning forward in the second frame (and supporting himself by holding onto the center hand railing?) helps to explain why Lovelady (aka "Doorman") looks so strangely angled in Altgens 6.

Jim, "Clearly," huh? Red flags waving, Sirens wailing -- "Warning! Warning!" --Tommy

You didn't make anything up, Tommy? Then you can show WC testimony to back up your words above? You CAN'T? Then, by the rules of logic, Tommy, you made something up. You'd step all over your own feet if you were a lawyer, Tommy. Keep your day job. Regards, --Paul Trejo Trejo, Did I actually say it was in his WC testimony? Or did you infer that, Counselor? Sworn Testimony of Wesley Buell Frazier at the Clay Shaw Trial: Q: What, if anything, did you do when you arrived at the Texas School Book Depository? A: I parked the car, and as I was sitting there I looked at my watch and I had a few minutes about eight or ten minutes, so I sat there and was looking out over Stemmons Freeway, which you could see from the parking lot, and I said I would charge my battery for a few minutes, because I had been driving in tow and you could look at your gauge and see the battery was not charging. I said to him, " I will race the engine pretty fast and charge it up a little bit." Q: What did Lee Harvey Oswald do when you were charging your battery? A: He got out of the car, got the package and walked behind the picket fence there and stayed there like he was waiting on me. Q: Did you catch up with him? A: As soon as I cut the engine off and got out and closed the door he started walking off. I followed him but I didn't catch up with him because at that time of the morning -- Q: Tell me, how was Lee Harvey Oswald carrying this package you described as he was walking in front of you? A: Parallel to his side, up and down. Like you stick it up under your armpit and the other part cupped in his hand. Q: Did you determine whether it was in his armpit or were you close enough to see that? A: No, sir, I was not close enough to see. I didn't pay attention to it particularly, but as he was walking along in front of me naturally I looked in his direction and that is what it appeared to be from what I saw. http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKfrazier.htm --Tommy Edited and bumped for "Word Twister" Trejo because he evidently missed it. It's interesting that Frazier says nothing here about Oswald's "bolting ahead of him" (as Trejo alleges) on the walk across the parking lot. In fact, Frazier says that Oswald waited, a short distance away, for him to finish "charging his battery," and only then started walking, yes, ahead of Frazier, but (apparently) at a normal speed, towards the TSBD. So where does "Word Twister" come up with this "bolting" bit? Did he imagine it, or did he try to do a little bit of clever / devious ... word-twisting? The whole world wants to know.

You didn't make anything up, Tommy? Then you can show WC testimony to back up your words above? You CAN'T? Then, by the rules of logic, Tommy, you made something up. You'd step all over your own feet if you were a lawyer, Tommy. Keep your day job. Regards, --Paul Trejo Trejo, Did I actually say it was in his WC testimony? Or did you infer that, Counselor? 1969 Testimony of Wesley Buell Frazier at the Clay Shaw Trial: Q: What, if anything, did you do when you arrived at the Texas School Book Depository? A: I parked the car, and as I was sitting there I looked at my watch and I had a few minutes about eight or ten minutes, so I sat there and was looking out over Stemmons Freeway, which you could see from the parking lot, and I said I would charge my battery for a few minutes, because I had been driving in tow and you could look at your gauge and see the battery was not charging. I said to him, " I will race the engine pretty fast and charge it up a little bit." Q: What did Lee Harvey Oswald do when you were charging your battery? A: He got out of the car, got the package and walked behind the picket fence there and stayed there like he was waiting on me. Q: Did you catch up with him? A: As soon as I cut the engine off and got out and closed the door he started walking off. I followed him but I didn't catch up with him because at that time of the morning -- Q: Tell me, how was Lee Harvey Oswald carrying this package you described as he was walking in front of you? A: Parallel to his side, up and down. Like you stick it up under your armpit and the other part cupped in his hand. Q: Did you determine whether it was in his armpit or were you close enough to see that? A: No, sir, I was not close enough to see. I didn't pay attention to it particularly, but as he was walking along in front of me naturally I looked in his direction and that is what it appeared to be from what I saw. --Tommy

Oh pleeeeze! Scott, I have read everything that has been declassified on the subject. You don't seem to be familiar with the Cuban Study Group's report or the Inspector General, Lyman Kirkpatrick's report, either. There are dozens of oral histories by eyewitnesses to the event. As for living witnesses, Hemming has been dead for nearly a decade. As for those eyewitnesses that I have interviewed and /or knew very well, the list is rather long, but include, Colonel L Fletcher Prouty USAF (Chief of Special Operations Office of the JCS) who was responsible for obtaining and outfitting all of the Brigade's modified B-26 bombers, among other things. HIs office was literally two doors down the hall from the office used by the Cuban Study Group investigation. Many of the witnesses stopped by to chat with him about it both before and after they gave their testimony. I also spoke extensively to my own father, who was a Special Aid to Eisenhower. It took me decades to confirm what he and Prouty reported because the documents were classified top secret or higher for so long. Upon release, the documents bore out what these witnesses reported quite well. Your witnesses are telling you what they believe to be true from their perspective. But, they were not on the inside of the US military intelligence apparatus like Colonel Prouty and my father were. Very impressive resume Greg, I'm especially impressed that you were able to speak to your father. I was told my first words were da-da, what was yours? "Were," Scott, "were." Unless you think Greg's first intelligible utterance consisted of just one word. --Tommy, the Grammar Gestapo

Well, Tommy, it's equally fascinating that you made up the part about LHO not waiting for Wesley while he was charging his battery. You demand a literalism -- then you'll bloody well be held to the same standard. Regards, --Paul Trejo Trejo, I made up nothing. But thanks for the post, because at least now you're admitting that Frazier didn't start walking towards the TSBD as soon as he'd parked his car, but "charged up his (improbably) weak battery for several minutes," instead. God I wish you and I were opposing attorneys on a criminal malpractice case. You or DiEugenio, for that matter. Speaking of your "bloody well" -- Well, Paul, to use an American colloquial expression, I'd rip you both a new one. --Tommy PS No, I'm not a lawyer.

Well, Tommy, you're the one jumping to conclusions now, aren't you? (1) Of those people who WERE asked if they saw LHO take a package into the TSBD, all said NO. (2) Wesley Buell Frazier said that the long package could fit between Oswald's palm and armpit; but you neglect to mention that Wesley and his sister couldn't AGREE on how long the package was. (2.1) You also neglect the book by Robert D. Morrow, "First Hand Knowledge" (1992) in which he claims to have designed and produced three versions of the JFK murder weapon -- a modified Manlicher-Carcano -- to fit inside a common tool box. (3) You're actually leaving out what Wesley actually said. Let's look at his ACTUAL testimony in the Warren Commission, shall we? ---------- BEGIN EXTRACT OF W.B. FRAZIER TESTIMONY TO WC ------------- Mr. BALL - What did he do about the package in the back seat when he got out of the car? ... Mr. FRAZIER - He got out of the car and he was wearing the jacket that has the big sleeves in them and he put the package that he had, you know, that he told me was curtain rods up under his arm, you know, and so he walked down behind the car and standing over there at the end of the cyclone fence waiting for me to get out of the car, and so quick as I cut the engine off and started out of the car, shut the door just as I was starting out just like getting out of the car, he started walking off and so I followed him in. So, eventually there he kept getting a little further ahead of me and I noticed we had plenty of time to get there because it is not too far from the Depository and usually I walk around and watch them switching the trains because you have to watch where you are going if you have to cross the tracks. One day you go across one track and maybe there would be some cars sitting there and there would be another diesel coming there, so you have to watch when you cross the tracks, I just walked along and I just like to watch them switch the cars, so eventually he kept getting a little further ahead of me and by that time we got down there pretty close to the Depository Building there, I say, he would be as much as, I would say, roughly 50 feet in front of me but I didn't try to catch up with him because I knew I had plenty of time so I just took my time walking up there. ---------- END EXTRACT OF W.B. FRAZIER TESTIMONY TO WC ------------- So, you were wrong on two main counts, Tommy. (A) LHO didn't leave Wesley revving up his car to recharge his battery -- you made that up. (B ) LHO did indeed walk way ahead of Wesley, up to 50 feet ahead he said, until Wesley didn't bother to catch up. So, Tommy, if you want to check facts, remember that I like to check facts, too. People who live in tin houses shouldn't throw can-openers. Regards, --Paul Trejo And you exaggerate (or under-exaggerate) everything. E.g. "Bolted" etc. PS How many people were asked if they noticed Oswald with a package? Two or three? Four? PPS It's fascinating that you left out the part about Frazier's (apparent) need to let his engine idle for several minutes to "charge up the battery" after having driven there all the way from Irving. On the freeway. --Tommy

Well, yeah. On first glance it would sure seem that way. On second glance, however, those viewing Kennedy's head wound are not nearly as compelling or consistent as some would like us to believe. At the most recent Lancer conference, for example, there was one Dealey Plaza witness, two Parkland witnesses, and one Bethesda witness, none of whom believed the low back of the head (the occipital area) was blown out, a la what many would like you to believe. I've concluded that the "experts" were pressured into misrepresenting some of what they saw to support the single-assassin conclusion. But I don't believe the autopsy photos and x-rays were altered. These things were never supposed to be seen by the public. And besides, why change the evidence when you can just lie about it? Pat, Bottom line, where do you think the shot or shots that hit JFK in the head came from? Sixth-floor southeast window (the "Sniper's Window")? And / or somewhere else? Thanks, --Tommy