Thomas Graves

[...] Lee, Do you think the guy with the red mark on his jacket is Jack Dougherty? You know, in the Woods photo that you posted? Thanks, --Tommy

Lee, According to Jack E. Dougherty's tombstone, he was born in August of 1923, making him 40 years old at the time of the assassination. The guy in the Wood's photo with the superimposed red mark on his jacket looks a bit younger than forty. Perhaps you meant the guy standing behind him? --Tommy bump

The MFF link notes, "In 1963, [Jack] lived with his parents, Redfern C. and Mary K. Dougherty. The older couple owned the home at 1827 S. Marsalis, and they were retired. In 1992, the phone is still in the Dallas phone directory listed to the older Dougherty with the same phone number but at a different address, 330 W. Pembroke Ave." We note from the gravesite information that his father died in 1978 at age 81, and his mother died in 1993 at age 94, so while the phone number was in the father's name, he clearly didn't answer it, tho' it was by no means unusual for married folks from that era to use the husband's name exclusively (witness, for example, Geraldean Reid's self-identification under oath before the WC as "Mrs. Robert A. Reid" @ 3H270), so between that and the 1992 information, we can safely presume that it was Mary Dougherty who was living at 330 W. Pembroke ... or, at approximately age 69, it could have been Jack, although I think it would have been more unusual for him to have used his father's name for a phone listing. That address happens to be to a Catholic assisted-living home, St. Joseph's Residence (www.stjr.org/contactus.html, which also lists Sister Adelaide Bocanegra as the administrator, phone 214-948-3597). It seems pretty clear that the gravesite is indeed that of Jack and his parents, particularly considering that he continued to live with his parents well into his adulthood and might well have been buried with them as a consequence. The question (for what little value it would have) would seem to be whether or how Jack stayed in contact with the outside world when his parents' phone was transferred to St. Joseph's, and what became of the property on Marsalis after Jack's demise (Robert, the Dallas Appraisal District or Dallas County real estate records would likely have information about this if you're inclined to search it out, if only out of curiosity). AFFIDAVIT IN ANY FACT THE STATE OF TEXAS COUNTY OF DALLAS BEFORE ME, Patsy Collins, a Notary Public in and for said County, State of Texas, on this day personally appeared Jack E. Dougherty w/m/40, 1827 So. Marsalis WH-6-7170 who, after being by me duly sworn, on oath deposes and says: I am employed at the Texas School Book Depository at 411 Elm and have been since 1952. I was working on the sixth floor today. There was [sic] six of us working on the floor. The others were Bill Lovelady, William Shelby, Danny Arce, Bonnie Williams, and Charles Givens. I went back to work at 12:45 p.m. I had already gone back to work and I gone down on the fifth [sic] to get some stock when I heard a shot. It sounded like it was coming from inside the building, but I couldn't tell from where. I went down on the first floor, and asked a man named Eddie Piper if he had heard anything and he said yes, that he had heard three shots. I then went back on the sixth floor. I didn't see anyone on the floor except the people I named. There was another employee that is named Lee Oswald that I saw on the sixth floor. He works all over the building, but I saw him on the sixth floor shortly before noon. I didn't see Oswald in the building after lunch. /s/ Jack E. Dougherty SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN BEFORE ME THIS 22 DAY OF November A.D. 1963 /s/ Patsy Collins Notary Public, Dallas County, Texas Analyzing the syntax and grammar used by Jack Dougherty in his affidavit, one realizes that it is very good, better than most Americans in fact. Unless he was "helped" with it, it would appear that he wasn't the low-intelligence guy he has been portrayed as being. Must have been "helped" with it, right? Actually, I don't think so. He did make one grammatical mistake when he used the singular form of the infinitive verb "to be" in the past tense (i.e. "was") when he should have used the plural form (i.e. "were"), thereby indicating that it really was Dougherty who spoke these words instead of some highly-educated "helper". --Tommy

bump

Lee, According to Jack E. Dougherty's tombstone, he was born in August of 1923, making him 40 years old at the time of the assassination. The guy in the Wood's photo with the superimposed red mark on his jacket looks a bit younger than forty. Perhaps you meant the guy standing behind him? --Tommy

Lee, Sounds like you don't like Duncan very much. To use your own profane colloquialism, Is he beginning to really "piss you off" (like I was beginning to really "piss you off" a week or so ago)? Do you often get really "pissed off" with people who disagree with you? If it's true that Duncan's recounting of his memories and expressing his opinions on this forum is "becoming too much for you to take," then perhaps it is you who needs to see a psychiatrist. BTW, I agree with Duncan in that I don't think that's Lovelady in the clip. Hope I'm not "pissing you off" (to use a phrase you used in a reply to one of my posts on a different thread), --Tommy Why don't you put away your gigantic wooden spoon, Tommy, and leave this between me and him? If you wanted to argue with me then you should have replied to my comments when I posted them to YOU. If you want to make this about me and you then let me know and we'll go at it. I have plenty to say regarding your contributions. Duncan got caught out inventing BS. Simple as that. You want to believe that he created a "false memory" then knock yourself out. Me? I prefer the old fashioned word for what he did. By all means keep "coining" my phrases - but it would be far more interesting if you coined your own. To finish off, yes, you were "pissing me off". Shame you didn't ask me why but I'm sure ignorance leads to a happier life on the forum. Lee, --Tommy P.S. The reason I didn't ask why I was "pissing you off" was because I was afraid that doing so whould "piss you off" even more, and that if you got sufficiently "pissed off", you would hop aboard a tramp steamer and come to San Diego and find me. Then I would have had to, well, nevermind...

Duncan, That works for me. --Tommy P.S. Dude looks pretty tall in the clip. This guy has a different chin and cheek bones than Lovelady.

Lee, Sounds like you don't like Duncan very much. To use your own profane colloquialism, Is he beginning to really "piss you off" (like I was beginning to really "piss you off" a week or so ago)? Do you often get really "pissed off" with people who disagree with you? If it's true that Duncan's recounting of his memories and expressing his opinions on this forum is "becoming too much for you to take," then perhaps it is you who needs to see a psychiatrist. BTW, I agree with Duncan in that I don't think that's Lovelady in the clip. Hope I'm not "pissing you off" (to use a phrase you used in a reply to one of my posts on a different thread), --Tommy

Duncan, Thanks for posting this video. L. Fletcher Prouty in The Guns of Dallas says that Thomas C. Dillard was riding in the number 3 camera car and took this photo only three seconds after the fatal head shot. --Tommy

Pamela, I'm sorry but I beg to differ. IMHO, the shirt being worn by the man in the doorway had quite a different pattern (plaid) that the one LHO was wearing when he was arrested. Also, I think the face of the man in the doorway more closely resembles Lovelady than Oswald. --Tommy

John, Good one! --Tommy

Richard, Let's not forget the Harper Fragment. It traces back, through JFK's position at Z-313, to a window on the far west end of the TSBD. I believe some witnesses reported seen a man with a rifle in this window a short time before the assassination. And isn't there a man's face in that window in a Powell or Dillard photo taken right after the hit? --Tommy

I've always been very suspicious of this old guy. Here in San Diego we have a bankrobber still on the loose known as the "Geezer Bandit". He looks old and frail in all the bank videos, but sprinted like an Olympic champion across a bank parking lot after a dye pack exploded on him after his most recent robbery. The police now think he's a young man wearing a special mask that makes him look old. Also, I keep thinking back to that great film, The Day of the Jackal... --Tommy

John, Huh? --Tommy

Wow. That's very interesting, Tom, especially the Pat Hoy connection to Gus Alex. (Just don't tell Ron Ecker because I've heard that he hates coincidences.) --Tommy

Best of luck to you, Scott. Hope you can get to the bottom of it. Maybe there some clues to the assassination in those redacted pages. Or something else of National Security interest. --Tommy

Greg, Well, I can explain "the lean" of the guy on the left. He was jogging forward and came to an abrupt halt. This frame catches him in the action of halting. But I can't explain "the lean" of "Oswald" in one of the backyard photos... --Tommy Tom the photographer was Altgens...b Thanks Bernice. I guess you're talking about the photographer behind whom the guy with the Bob's Big Boy Three-Pounder With Extra Mayo And Onions wrapper was standing. I thought he was standing behind Bothun. --Tommy

Ray, Thank you. --Tommy

John, The guy isn't carrying a yellow bottle in his left hand. He's carrying a folded (or at least flattened) paper bag or a folded piece of cardboard. It's obvious when you look at him walking across Elm Street in the Cancellare. (He's the tall, skinny black guy wearing a sweater vest over a long-sleeved shirt.) --Tommy

I hear 98.65% of the time, they're the best tasting... I remember that 23.8% of the time.

Greg, Well, I can explain "the lean" of the guy on the left. He was jogging forward and came to an abrupt halt. This frame catches him in the action of halting. But I can't explain "the lean" of "Oswald" in one of the backyard photos... --Tommy Lee Forman's Cancellare showing your jogging man standing just in front of Brehm and Joey, with the yellow piece of paper or envelope still in his hand. {photo was here] Wouldn't say he's standing, I'd say he's walking, actually. His trousers sure look strange. Looks like he's wearing board shorts over them. --Tommy

Greg, Well, I can explain "the lean" of the guy on the left. He was jogging forward and came to an abrupt halt. This frame catches him in the action of halting. But I can't explain "the lean" of "Oswald" in one of the backyard photos... --Tommy Lee Forman's Cancellare showing your jogging man standing just in front of Brehm and Joey, with the yellow piece of paper or envelope still in his hand.

You made me cry again! And I wish Thomas good health. I read zinc really helps the prostate. I kinow my father and brother had problems, but they took zinc and got better. Kathy C Kathy, Thanks for the info. I'll look into it. Take care, --Tommy

Thanks for the sympathy Greg. Tommy, You know you have it. And if I could, I'd buy you a beer myself. oops. (emphasis added by T. Graves) Thanks, Greg Parker. Did you know that 17.44% of the beers I consume are bought by other people? --Tommy

Hi Greg, Unfortunately the Del Charro is a vacant lot now with a for sale sign on the fence. I hope to put a phoito of it on the forum... Talk to you later, --Tommy P.S. Let's go somewhere where they take food stamps. I'll buy. Tommy meet kettle. Kettle meet Tommy. ps using food stamps for the purchase of beer is an abomination and accounts for 15.87% of the deficit. Thanks for the sympathy Greg.