Thomas Graves

Tracy, I kinda feel sorry for Armstrong. He's on a very difficult "mission". He has to convince "newbies" that Harvey and Lee looked quite different so he can show that they, indeed, were two different guys, but on the other hand he's gotta show that they looked quite similar in order to explain how they were able to convince so many people that there was only one of them -- sometimes that "one of them" being Harvey, and at other times that "one of them" being Lee. And then he has to deal with the Two Marguerites (OMG) in a similar fashion! LOL -- Tommy

"Dear James" Why don't you and Josephs and Armstrong just indict the whole evil CIA from top-to-bottom for the assassination of JFK? Because doing so would force you to curtail the nice little cottage industries you guys have rigged up? Or do you reasonably expect to be able, within the next fifty years or so, to point the finger at and "convict," with overwhelming evidence, the 5,000 or so evil people who were directly involved? -- Tommy

Right on, bro! BTW, since we'll probably never be able to motivate the highly-influential Robin Unger to correctly label Jacob, Holt, and Simmons in the Z-Frame or the short, close-up Darnell clip of them walking back up the north side sidewalk, I gotta ask you a question -- Are you any good with labeling Internet photos and videos and that kind of stuff? -- Tommy

Right on, bro! -- Tommy We'll have to come back to it and "bump" it every five years or so, so people will remember what we've uncovered. I hope that Robin Unger doesn't require a notarized statement from Jacob, Holt, and Simmons, plus genetic testing of all three, plus 15 high school photos of each of them before he'll consider correctly re-labeling "Calvary, Hicks, and Reed" as, respectively, "Jacob, Holt, and Simmons" on his grossly misleading Z-Film frame. Maybe we should label our own darn photos the way we know they should be for Jacob, Holt, and Simmons, and maybe even "Big Girl" Gloria CalvEry, standing six people up the sidewalk (grass actually) from self-described Native American Stella Mae Jacob. You any good with that kinda stuff, Sandy?

Sandy, OK, but I think you're going to soon reach a point of dramatically-diminishing returns, and regardless, skeptics and / or "researchers" who have an agenda that doesn't allow our scenario to even be considered, will always say, "Well, the woman that guy on the steps is talking with could just as easily be a stranger off-the-street who is asking that nice bald-headed man (who just happens to look a little like Lovelady) where in tar-nation the nearest rest-room is so that she can go take the Mother of all wee-wees." -- Tommy

Dear Ray, The obvious problem with that interpretation is that in none of the films or photos which show the "infield grass" between Elm Street and Main Street during the motorcade is there visible a group of three women (self-described "Indian female" Stella Jacob, blond-in-her-highschool-yearbook-photos Gloria Jeanne Holt, and a "mysterious" co-worker by the name of Sharon Simmons) standing at the (south) curb of Elm Street, about 150 feet downhill from the TSBD, in the direction of the Triple Underpass. So, since those three gals weren't on the south side of Elm Street, it's logical to assume they were probably on the other side of Elm Street (i.e. the north side, next to the Grassy Knoll, where most of the spectators on Elm Street were, anyway), don't you agree? And lo-and-behold, when we look with an open mind we see that there IS a group of the three gals standing close to each other over there on the north side - Robin Unger's (strangely dark-skinned) Gloria CalvAry (sic), blond Karan Hicks (who looks amazingly like Gloria Jeanne Holt does in a high school yearbook photo which was taken of Holt one year earlier), and, of course, the "mysterious" Sharron Simmons -- Tommy

Dear James, In your book review you wrote, "There are two other points about this absolutely crucial episode that Morley mentions, although not at length. First is the delay in getting the first cable to CIA HQ about Oswald visiting the Soviet Embassy. This took over a week. It has never been adequately explained." I'm going from memory on this and I'm probably wrong anyway, but couldn't the delay be explained by the possibility that it took about seven days for CIA Headquarters and CIA Mexico City to get "on the same page" regarding how to go about smoking out the October 1 impersonator who had not only identified himself as "Lee Oswald," but had also coaxed the Russian on the other end of the line to volunteer the name "Kostikov"? I suppose it could be argued that, after having conferred with Angleton / Egerter in Washington, by stopping off for two days of "consultations" (probably with Shackley) at JMWAVE while on his way back to Mexico City, Dave and Ted might have taken that opportunity to work on the plans for the upcoming "hit" in Dallas. Hmmm. I think I'm starting to see what you're getting at! -- Tommy

Dear James, I'm sorry, but what did you say about Webster? I honestly don't remember. Or do I have to go searching for it now. like a needle in a hay stack, as a form of punishment? -- Tommy PS The RFK photos? Sorry. James. but I.m afraid you've lost me.

Why do you want to analyze those photos, if you don't mind my asking?

Well, Sandy, we can speculate the heck out of it if we want to, so why don't I just kinda "get the ball rolling"? I'm guessing the three gals, not being suspects themselves in the "crime of the century," were in the same room together when they made their statements to the FBI, and the first one to give her statement made a boo-boo and said "south side" instead of "north side." and the two other gals heard her say that, and it influenced them (because. well. maybe they were a little confused about the "points of the compass" around the (southwest-facing?) TSBD (which is surrounded by some kinda weirdly-oriented streets, anyway), and so they just kinda "followed suit" and said "south side," too, when they were giving their statements. How's that sound? Okay, now it's YOUR turn! -- Tommy PS This is kinda fun, huh?

Edited and bumped for Paul Trejo.

edited and bumped

WHEW! I CAN START BREATHING AGAIN. -- Tommy PS Do you really think it's necessary to explain why those errors (south side instead of north side) occurred?

Sandy, I hope you're not second-guessing yourself, again. This is what TSBD employee Stella Jacob said in her FBI statement: "At approximately 12:00 pm on November 22, 1963. I left the Depository building and walked down toward the Stemmons expressway underpass [i.e. the Triple Underpass] west [south-west, actually] of the [TSBD] building approximately fifty yards and took up a position on the curb on the south aide of Elm Street to await the presidential procession." From Stella Jacob's detailed description, I think it's clear that she wasn't standing on Elm Street Extension (which parallels the front wall of the TSBD, and which, therefore, does not go "down" towards the Triple Underpass), but was standing about 150 feet downhill on Elm Street proper, instead. -- Tommy PS If you keep second-guessing yourself (and posting your doubts), I'm gonna have to start calling you Sandy "Hamlet" Larsen.

Joe, Trust a car salesman? LOL -- Tommy PS I used to be one.

Sandy, That's a frame from the Dave Weigman film. -- Tommy PS Do you think Gloria Calvery might be in there somewhere? (LOL)

Sandy, Works for me. LOL That and he fact that the three-person group comprised of Jacob, Holt, and Simmons (married name Newton) is not visible near the curb on the south side of Elm Street, which suggests to me that a simple mistake was made by the person who took down or typed up their statements when they made them to the FBI, and that the group comprised of Jacob, Holt, and Simmons was standing on the north side of Elm Street, instead.. Thanks for your help and moral support, Sandy. -- Tommy

Dear George, The problem with "Harvey and Lee and the Two Marguerites" is that it: 1 ) lures "newbies" into a bottomless rabbit hole of paranoiac speculation," 2 ) confounds "marked card" / "barium meal" intentional misinformation in declassified counterintelligence-based documents with "evidence" of a very long-term doppelganger project, and 3 ) encourages over-the-top conspiracy theory thinking and "attitude" in our society, imho. -- Tommy

dupe

Yet you went ahead and labeled that dark-skinned woman as Gloria Jean Calvery on those Darnell frames. Way to go, Robin. I wish you had put a question mark ("?") after her name. As well as (due to your apparent uncertainty about Calvery), after the names of her two stated sidekicks that day, "Karan Hicks" and "Carol Reed". But you went ahead and unintentionally set their mis-identifications "in concrete," instead. -- Tommy

Michael, IMHO, there are always at least two "innocent" possibilities: 1 ) Mistaken identity / faulty memory + Imagination-based embellishment or "filling in the gaps" 2 ) Prevarication -- Tommy

"Dear James" You've slammed some really nice globs of steaming hot spaghetti against the wall this time (especially the delicious Mata Hari one), but unfortunately, none of them "stick" because the examples you've chosen are not comparable to what you claim to have happened in the "Harvey And Lee And The Two Marguerites Project," i.e. two unrelated adolescent boys (with, by definition, two different mothers), chosen by the CIA to somehow grow up looking nearly identical, facially, so that they can participate, one wittingly, the other not, whenever their services are eventually needed in some doppelganger-based "black op" once they've grown up, in this case some ten years down the road. -- Tommy PS As regards Dulles' possible use of "doubles," one can only assume that he was referring either to identical twins or to people who were already sufficiently similar-looking as adults. D'oh.

Dear George, If I agree that Craig saw an Oswald lookalike acting suspiciously after the assassination, how does that preclude my believing that four other people may have seen the same person acting suspiciously (or not) in Dallas that day? But more importantly, why does that person have to have been involved in some improbable. very long-term CIA-run doppelganger project? -- Tommy

Thanks, mate. I couldn't put it any more eloquently. (lol) -- Tommy

Dear George, I believe that Lee Harvey Oswald may have been impersonated on a short-term basis from time to time, including the time Craig saw someone who strongly resembled Oswald get into the Rambler Station Wagon and "escape". That's very different, however, from alleging that two boys from two different families were picked, when they were adolescents, by the CIA in order to eventually become very (somehow) similar-looking, Agency-controlled and / or manipulated "doppelgangers" some ten years later. -- Tommy :sun.