Thomas Graves

Dear William, I've already told you that, facially, they look to me like they could be the same person, especially when I take into consideration the fact that the photos were taken 3 or 4 years apart and were taken during a period of time in a young woman's life (from approx. 17 to 21) when, I suppose, she is still losing "baby fat" from her face, and also taking into consideration the factors I mentioned earlier: shade versus fairly harsh full-face lighting, semi-profile versus frontal, downward tilt versus straight ahead. I like her basically roundish face, slightly pointed chin, high and curvy eyebrows, nose, cheeks, and probably a few other things as well. A lot of "researchers" say she's too dark complected, not realizing her face is in the shade, and not taking into account the fact that her face is slightly "washed out" and pale-looking in the high school photos. Should we take a poll? -- Tommy. Oh yeah! And the fact that DCW is frowning while Glora Jean is smiling (and wearing glasses).

Dear William, The answer to your oh-so-well phrased rhetorical question is "probably." I do see a likeness between Face-In-The-Shade-Woman and Younger-Gloria-For-Sure in all those high school photographs in which her face is well lit by either a camera's flash or full-on studio lights. Oh yeah, and photographed straight-on rather than in semi-profile and with her face angled downward, too. -- Tommy PS Your cute little defecating bull in another post reminds of when you and Miles Scull used to exchange graphic, juvenile insults.

Dear Oh-So Politic Mr. Miller, Evidently you haven't noticed that "dark-skinned" Calvery's face is in the shade in that photo of her walking up the sidewalk with those two other gals. Pity, that. -- Tommy PS Don't you know it's against EF rules to denigrate another member's posts by suggesting, no matter how "subtlely," that they are "a waste of time and space"? Do you think you're a moderator or something?

Yep. Very fast runner. Ran up the grass and found her way to Elm Street Extension, and across it, in near world record time. All the while "clutching something to her bosom." -- Tommy PS Speaking of examining something closely, were you ever able to spot 'dark complected' Gloria Calvery standing with Karan Hicks and / or Carol Arnold on the grass right after the assassination in that photo you demanded I find for you? And the photo showing them walking, not running, up the sidewalk towards the TSBD? (You're welcome.)

Was she a really fast runner to have been standing down on Elm Street during the assassination but running down the TSBD-side of Elm Street Extension in Couch / Darnell? -- Tommy

Exactly, Bill. As we can see in Couch / Darnell, twenty seconds or so after the assassination lots of people, whether or not they were standing on the steps during the shooting, are running and walking towards and up the steps. IIRC, almost everyone on the steps and elsewhere in Dealy Plaza had heard and (recognized as such) some shots, and many had no clear idea where they had come from. Even more reason for TSBD empoyees on the steps or close to them to take refuge inside the building and not "see" a complete stranger or Oswald, standing / leaning against the wall back there in the corner as they hurried inside. -- Tommy

Dear Bill I'm not surprised that the people on the steps in Couch / Darnell, in the hustle and bustle and excitement of the moment to eat their lunch, get to a telephone and / or get out of a perceived crossfire, all those people, concentrating as they were on where to put their feet as they climbed the steps as they filed past Prayer Man. failed to notice Oswald or a complete stranger (whichever one you prefer) standing / leaning in the corner. -- Tommy

Dear Bill, The fact that no one on the steps remembers anyone's being there invalidates your argument, IMHO. In my mind there's not much difference between their not noticing / remembering a complete stranger and their not noticing / remembering a relative newcomer like Oswald, especially if the stranger or Oswald kinda snuck out the front door onto the landing right before the motorcade passed by. After the shots, people on the steps would have been even less likely to "see" him there because their attention would have been focused elsewhere. And wasn't there one female TSBD employee who thought she mighta seen him kinda lurking in the lobby a few minutes before the assassination? -- Tommy

Thanks, Douglas! -- Tommy

It's hard to become President when you're running against the Russians, Wikileaks, and the FBI. -- Tommy

[deleted bad joke] -- Tommy

Gloria Calvery, Karan (sic) Hicks, and Carol Reed worked together (iirc) and all said they stood together during the shooting. It would be nice if someone could find photos of Hicks and/or Arnold taken before or after 11/22/63 for comparison purposes. Edited for Bill Miller. I'm not talking about photos of "Hicks" and / or "Arnold" that were taken on 11/22/63. I'm talking about verified (i.e. high school, college, newspaper, etc) photos of Hicks or Arnold that were taken on other days. -- Tommy

Bumped for Bill Simpich

bumped

Have you read this thread, yet, William? Maybe the answers you're demanding from me are hidden in it. -- Tommy Here's a Jack Martin frame, from Duncan's website, which I posted on the "Did Gloria Calvery Almost Catch Up With Marion Baker?" thread, this forum, way, way back in the day.

Have you read this thread, yet, William? Maybe the answers you're demanding from me are hidden in it. -- Tommy

Dear Bill, BFD, and Don't jump to conclusions. How long have you been discussing this with us? Couple of days? LOL Now that you've aggravated me, maybe I'll just let you stew for awhile. (While I frantically search for those posts on that old thread so that I can please you, William.) -- Tommy

Dear Bill, I gotta do all the work for you? LOL Bob Prudhomme and I went through all of this some time ago. That's what you get for being away so long. -- Tommy

Dear Bill, How the heck could the contrast be "bumped up" in such a way as to create such a regular pattern of right-angled white stripes on the shirt proper, and that white stripe that goes down the entire length of his sleeve? You should also take into consideration the fact that Lovelady's distinctive bald spot is visible in a few frames upon a close, slow-motion viewing of the film when it is enlarged. -- Tommy

Dear Bill, That woman (who I agree is probably Gloria Calvery) was captured on film after the assassination, standing on the grass (iirc) and walking up the Elm Street sidewalk with the two gals who were with her by the Stemmon's sign. So if it was Calvery, she started running only during the final part of her journey to the TSBD. The problem remains: If Shelley and Lovelady stayed on the steps until she got there, why aren't they visible in Couch / Darnell some 20 - 25 seconds after the assassination? -- Tommy

Dear Bill, A few years ago, someone who is held in high esteem on this forum (Robin Unger?, Chris Davidson?) determined that Marion Baker reached the steps about 20 seconds after the final shot, iirc. Now, if what that member said is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then "your" Shelley and Lovelady should, according to their testimony (which you seem to swallow hook line and sinker), be visible on the steps in Couch / Darnell, waiting for Gloria Calvery to run up to them and tell them that Kennedy had been shot. Gloria Calvery must have been fairly close to the limousine (because she evidently saw JFK get shot), and close enough to the TSBD to be able to reach it about 20 seconds later. (Or do you think she started running away right after the "throat shot," aka Altgens 6, giving her another seven seconds or so?) When we look at all of these things "taken together," we encounter a contradiction of major proportions, IMHO. Never mind the fact that neither Shelly nor Lovelady are to be seen in Couch / Darnell, you know, waiting for Calvery to run up to them. -- Tommy

Dear Bill, Probably half-truths, at best. -- Tommy

Dear Sandy, Let me know how that works out. LOL -- Tommy

Dear David, I'll just add these few final observations: It seems to me that a lot of your H&L confusion arrises from the fact that there probably was at least one Oswald impersonator in the Dallas - Fort Worth area (and maybe even New Orleans) before the assassination. That, and the fact that you conflate the FBI's and CIA's "barium meal" (Popov's Mole q.v.) intentional misinformation about Lee Harvey Oswald with an imaginary person in your ever-expanding "reality." You mistakenly believe (fervently, I might add) that all of this somehow "proves" the existence of a CIA project involving a Russian-speaking "Harvey Oswald" going back at least to 1959. And then you really get carried away with your uhhhh ... let's call it imagination ... and you start finding some "really suspicious scat, man," like, way back in places like NYC and Montana (or some such huntin' and fishin' state), and it all makes so much sense, doesn't it, and it proves that our parents and all of the authority figures in our miserable little lives are evil, evil, evil, man, especially the CIA and the FBI, and I mean, like, all the time, man, and I can hardly stand it anymore!!! LOL I actually feel sorry for you, David. But I also feel sorry for all those erstwhile students of the assassination whom you (and Armstrong, and ...) have unintentionally ... uh, ... sidetracked ... over the years. Carry on, dude. -- Tommy PS You never have explained how the bad guys were able to choose two biologically-unrelated adolescents so that they would grow up looking so much alike as did your oh-so precious "Lee" and "Harvey." So, let me guess what you're gonna say now. -- You don't think they look "all that much alike," do you? LOL