Cliff Varnell
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Posts posted by Cliff Varnell
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1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:
Paul,
I was the writer and we did address this issue. More than once.
The clothing evidence? I challenge that assertion.
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1 hour ago, Paul Cummings said:
He was the writer and not the director.
What gave you the impression I said otherwise?
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1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:
What? I could have sworn that, a year or two ago, you shouted out a big hallelujah because one of Jim's documentaries included the thing about the shirt/jacket holes being low, around T3.
I gave him a hallelujah for acknowledging the T3 back wound and the throat entrance wound. He didn’t cite the clothing evidence in his scripts for Oliver Stone.
The clothing evidence is rarely cited by the JFKA Critical Master Class — which is why I hold them in such contempt.
1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:I take it, now, that I was mistaken.
Cliff, do you recall being pleased about Jim mentioning that somewhere... perhaps in one of his articles? I'm just wondering how I got the impression he'd included it in one of the documentaries.
He didn’t even mention the clothing evidence in his eulogy for Vincent Salandria. Go figure.
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11 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:
But Ed Lopez told me that once Blakey came in Purdy got religion about the SBT. He and Ed had some strong arguments about this. Ed would raise his arms in his dress shirt and say, "Andy, you cannot get a hole 5 .5 inches from the collar to go up that far!"
Bravo!
Jim DiEugenio acknowledges the significance of the physical evidence in the JFKA — a moment to be celebrated!
That he failed to do so over 6 hours of Oliver Stone documentaries remains a mystery, however.
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1 hour ago, Robert Montenegro said:
Please read the following Wikipedia article in its entirety, Mr. Morrow:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_243
Then come back and tell me W. Averell Harriman was friend to President Kennedy...
Ave was tight with Bobby. Jack was wary of Ave.
Spanning the Century: The Life of W. Averell Harriman, by Rudy Abramson, pgs 624-5, 630 emphasis added:
<quote on>
Some of Averell's friends, including [Roger] Hilsman, who had heard Bob Kennedy muse about the possibility of Harriman as secretary of state, thought there was still a chance that Averell might yet get the Foggy Bottom job he long coveted. But that had been before the notorious coup cable [243 authorizing Diem coup 8/24/63].
Though the President had avoided criticism of Averell in the episode, Harriman knew Kennedy's confidence in him was shaken. After working his way to the seventh floor, he was suddenly viewed as a problem. Almost overnight, he looked ten years older. Privately, the President and the attorney general talked of finding a way to rehabilitate him, to find a job that would get him out of the Vietnam business. There was a need to put more emphasis on hemispheric matters, and the President thought that one way to solve two problems might be to create a new post of undersecretary for Latin American affairs for him.
<quote off>
The Wise Men, Walter Isaacson & Evan Thomas, pg. 640:
<quote on>
[The Diem] coup was messy. Diem's body was found riddled with bullets and stab wounds.
John Kennedy himself was shot to death three weeks later. Bill Sullivan [Harriman's chief of staff] found Averell Harriman that afternoon sitting on the edge of his chair, in front of a television set, holding his head in his hands.
<quote off>
Was Ave uptight because the guy who demoted him was murdered, or because the designated patsy was captured alive?
Max Holland's The Assassination Tapes, pg 57:
<quote on>
At 6:55 p.m. Johnson has a ten minute meeting with Senator J. William Fulbright and diplomat W. Averell Harriman to discuss possible foreign involvement in the assassination, especially in light of the two-and-a-half-year sojourn of Lee Harvey Oswald [in Russia]...Harriman, a U.S. ambassador to Moscow during WWII, is an experienced interpreter of Soviet machinations and offers the president the unanimous view of the U.S. government's top Kremlinologists. None of them believe the Soviets have a hand in the assassination, despite the Oswald association. </q>
There was no meeting of “top Kremlinologists” — Harriman made that up to leverage the US foreign policy establishment in support of the Lone Nut scenario.
Where did Jackie and the kids spend the night 11/22/63? Harriman’s Georgetown pad.
Compared to Harriman, I regard Dulles as a lesser demon.
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1 hour ago, Robert Montenegro said:
I'll say the same thing to you gentlemen that I said to Mr. DiEugenio, in my very humble opinion, I believe that if there was a command & control structure representing the conspirators who pulled off this most heinous crime, it is Allen Welsh Dulles.
Allen Dulles is in the eye of the hurricane, representing all of the other elements on this list, and by virtue, permanently putting the other elements on this list in his pocket...
In W. Averell Harriman’s biography, Spanning The Century, by Rudy Abramson, the Dulles Brothers are referred to as “his lawyers.”
They were Thor’s hired hands.
You’ve read The Devil’s Chessboard. On the evening of the Bay of Pigs D-Day, Dulles returned from Puerto Rico and went straight home, barely interested in the operation.
Ruth Paine’s mother-in-law, Ruth Forbes Paine, was a close friend of Mary Bancroft, Dulles’ girlfriend, and a friend of Dulles himself.
So we’re expected to believe that Dulles set up a woman to host the family of a Commie Kennedy Killer only two degrees of separation from himself.
Dulles had a personal interest in making sure this information didn’t get out. To assert he signed up for this all along strains credulity.
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1 hour ago, W. Niederhut said:
In your paradigm, is there a "mastermind" of the assassination op? A person, or persons, at the center of these networks?
Wouldn’t that be Thor?
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8 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:
The Disney, BlackRock, WalMart, GMs, Goldman Sachs, Microsoft, NBA, NBC-Universal, Morgan Stanley crowd. This goes all the way back to Smedley Butler days. They dominate the Democratic Party, btw.
MAGA Ben at it again.
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1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said:
Is this where that quote originated?
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1 hour ago, Robert Morrow said:
Here is some more evidence of JFK NOT WANTING TO BLOW UP THE WORLD. At this time in the 1960's there was a saying by dumb right wingers "I'd rather be dead than red." I don't know who said that originally but it got to be a saying.
https://archive.org/details/sim_nation_1930-07-09_131_3392/page/32/mode/1up
It is high time in any case that the workers learned to live by faith, not work. As for those weaklings who may fall by the wayside and starve to death, let the country bury them under the epitaph: Better Dead than Red.
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11 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:
Regarding Gen. Edward Lansdale, Max Boot gives a talk about him in 2018:
One thing that comes out is how INVESTED INTO NGO DINH DIEM that Gen. Edward Lansdale was from the mid 1950s to 1963. And by 11/01/1963 the Kennedy Administration was throwing all of that into the trash can.
Which directly led to the Vietnam War.
11 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:One key to understanding the JFK assassination is to figure out 1) Who was for the Coup of Diem 2) Who in the American government was violently opposed to the coup and murder of Diem.
1) Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5
<quote on, emphasis added>
Who changed the coup [overthrow of Ngo Brothers in South Vietnam 11/01/63] into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: “On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge’s own military assistant.”
Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate “with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.”
The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.”
At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal.
According to Corson, “John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters,” although Dunn’s role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for “special operations,” could act without hindrance.
<quote off>
Who was the driving force behind the overthrow of Diem? Averell Harriman and the CIA mission in Vietnam, which ginned up the Catholic-Buddhist unrest used as the pretext to overthrow Diem.
2). There was no VIOLENT opposition to the overthrow of Diem.
11 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:JFK supported the coup of Diem, although he was chagrined at the death of Diem. Henry Cabot Lodge and the U.S. State Dept. supported the coup. The CIA was split right down the middle over whether the Diem coup was.
See above.
11 hours ago, Robert Morrow said:LBJ was totally opposed to the Diem coup. Lansdale was ENRAGED about the Diem coup. The military was against the Diem Coup. The people who were VIOLENTLY OPPOSED TO THE DIEM COUP were the ones involved in the JFK assassination.
There was no violent opposition to the overthrow of Diem.
The Skull & Bones boys behind the murder of Diem were also behind the murder of JFK — or so I’m happy to argue.
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In letter to President Biden, says “If they implicate or embarrass the CIA, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, or any other governmental agency, the public has a right to know”
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Brenda Lee
Big Mama Thornton
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20 hours ago, Pat Speer said:
And, guess what, the supposedly altered evidence was proof for conspiracy all the freakin' time.
You appear to labor under the impression the Lone Nut cover-up was meticulously planned, rather than a contingency not completely thought through.
Just because the SBT doesn’t work with phony measurements — taken in violation of several autopsy protocols — doesn’t make them true.
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1 hour ago, Stu Wexler said:
Has anyone ever been shot with any of these exotic rounds? The priors here have to be pretty low. And I would bet even a low velocity exotic round, while it may dissolve in the body, would penetrate further. BB gun pellets can go 3 to 4 inches in gelatin. If you want to take it farther back you would lose velocity but then, regardless of the weapon, you would likely lose accuracy. How far away do you have the exotic weapon shooter? What velocity?
Stu
According to Charles Senseney weapons were designed for special operations for both Special Forces and the CIA under Army cover. The CIA mostly used the dart gun. Most importantly, the FBI was put on alert for hostile operatives from outside the country using blood soluble rounds.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf
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4 hours ago, Stu Wexler said:
I do think there a few key issues here that require shoring up from Pat's side. One has been brought up: my problem with the EOP to throat damage, which dates back to Tink Thompson's argument of a bone fragment-caused throat wound, is that JFK appears to be in a quasi-choking position from Z230+.
Tink pooh-poohs the throat entrance because even a .22 would transit the soft tissue of the neck.
The JFKA Master Expert Class (as well as the US gov’t and the commercial media) ignores the “general feeling” of the autopsists that JFK was hit with at least one “exotic” round which dissolved in the body.
Just such technology was developed for the CIA’s MKNAOMI program which delivered paralytics and toxins that dissolved in the body.
The indifference and at times hostile regard for this Autopsists’ Scenario among the JKFA Expert Master Class is tragic IMO.
JFK acted paralyzed, frozen mute for 6 seconds. The wound in his throat was in soft tissue, no exit no bullet recovered.
The failure of the JFKA Expert Master Class to show the slightest interest in the only hard lead in the case is mystifying.
Going on 27 years posting on line I’ve grown so deeply jaded I sometimes think annual JFKA conferences shouldn’t be held in Pittsburg or Dallas, but in a town which truly appreciates collective distraction.
Langley, VA.
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1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:
Did you mention Dianna Ross?
Yes I did! Dionne Warwick too.
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Too hip for the room?
Tegan & Sara
Nina Hagen
PJ Harvey
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Purdy has a chin like the BYP Oswald, but not like the mug shot Oswald.
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1 hour ago, Kirk Gallaway said:
I don't see much resemblance between Brock Purdy and LHO, but it is more of a vibe.
As a 49er fan, I'm glad we now we have the added incentive to win now that it's the 49ers against the Deep State, CIA and Taylor Swift! heh heh
All this hype about Brock Purdy. If he wins, he'll be the rags to riches NFL success story of this early century! If he loses, people will say he was always a complete loser!, but he'll probably be back in the future and have another chance.
******
Hey about Steph? , 20 3's in 2 games and a buzzer beater winner tonight against KD and the Suns!!
And speaking of KD Lang, she's always reminded me of later John Lenon!
But fans are stupid. Now some people are calling for Steve Kerr to quit and he's only been here for 9 years and has won 4 titles! If you don't have the talent, or they're getting old, you're not going to win!
Ok, no chance of winning it all now, but they are a better team than they've been playing, at least up to these last 4 games!
Find something to cheer about!
Congratulations Sin City!
Time out for a dude moment.
An incredible Curry shot tonight! Great game, back and forth. Until Steph hit that I was whining like a little bitch. Looked like Booker had taken over for the Suns.
I like the Warriors chances to win it all. Been in so many close games, they’ve developed grit on D.
At the beginning of the season I fired a yard on ‘em to win it all @ +1260. Now I’m glad I did!
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Cory, I still owe you a beer and a brat, haven’t forgot.
Meanwhile, back to the serious business of Music Goddess worship...staying on the San Francisco tip with 3 commercial hits:
Linda Perry
Debora Iyall
Pearl Harbor
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Staying on the punk tip...
Courtney Love
Theo Kogan
Frightwig
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1 hour ago, Cory Santos said:
We just got back from the Encore (last night was Caesars Palace) and I can report that capitalism is alive. We went to Sebastian Maniscalco’s show which was hilarious. Most restaurants sold out tonight and the rest were two to three hour minimum wait. Wall to wall people and security everywhere. Driving was actually not too bad.
My 50 yard line lower bowl tickets didn’t show up today, Cory. What gives?
Tim Smith's book on the HSCA
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Cliff Varnell
Doesn’t “Oliver Stone documentaries” indicate that Oliver Stone was the director?
Jim won’t follow thru, but perhaps you can cite for me the instances in the 2 Oliver Stone documentaries where the clothing evidence is cited.