Wim Dankbaar

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I 'll have some family business to attend to today. My son's birthday. So I will respond to Mr. Valenti in the Chauncey Holt thread tommorow. Actually I'm enjoying that discussion very much. But meanwhile I would like to have Valenti's take on Tosh's story, if he has one. Could you respond to that, Mark? I will also give you folks something, that I didn't aquire without cost: Lois Gibson's slide presentation on the three tramps. Completely free of charge , as is all the information on my website, the name of which I did not invent, but inherited. Still, I am of the opinion that it is appropriate to a high extent. Wim

Tosh, no surprise to me. I email Coral and Chardy , who follow thw Posada case, for months about Posada, Bosch and the JFK assassination. I guess their hands are tight. They never respond and refuse to report on it. Except once: Original Message ----- From: Wim Dankbaar To: achardy@herald.com ; ocorral@herald.com Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:01 PM Subject: Posada responds Gentlemen, Since you are already working in a tandem, you could well be the new Woodward and Bernstein. Thank you for reporting this : Although he wouldn't answer questions about allegations he participated in several terrorist acts, he readily rejected rumors that he was in Dallas on the day John F. Kennedy was assassinated in 1963. ''Let me answer that,'' he told his attorney. ''I was pumping gas dressed as a lieutenant of the American Army in Fort Benning [Georgia] when that happened,'' he said. ``How was I going to be in Dallas? What's going on is that they blame me for everything.'' What a dissapointment! I had expected: "Sure I was in Dallas, I can confirm that, I was in Dealey Plaza!" But wait, that would spoil the nice treatment, as well the asylum. Next time, you may want to ask him if he can produce a witness for his "alibi"? And it better not be his buddy Felix Rodriguez! Let's see, we have Frank Sturgis and Orlando Bosch watching TV in their Miami homes, with no witnesses, we have Johnny Roselli sound asleep in his Vegas apartment untill he was woken up to hear the news, with the FBI losing surveillance of him (apparently they forgot to check his home), and now we have Bambi pumping gas at Fort Benning? I don't blame him. After all , we have Giancana, Nicoletti, Demohrenschildt and others dead just before they were scheduled to testify. But maybe Luis remembers some of his customers at the pump that day? At least they are better stories than the changing ones of Howard Hunt and George Bush You could also ask him if he knew Chauncey Marvin Holt. As you may know, he is the source for the "rumors". Thanks in advance for being more alert, Sincerely with greetings from Holland, Wim Dankbaar ******************* It's also rumored that columnist Jim Defede was laid off for being too honest, for example with this cartoon: http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/Posada-Osama.JPG http://journalistsfordefede.blogspot.com/

I posted John Simkin's superblink about Paul Helliwell. I had never heard of this man, any coup in Brazil or Jauo Goulart, untill recently. This coup was supported and organized by the same usual suspects mentioned in that link. Chauncey Holt was given a spot in Brazil by Helliwell. But then again: Chauncey Holt might have invented his whole life story

Kelly - It's amazing how everybody was there. Have you ever met General Ed Lansdale? Holt - Ed Lansdale? He was originally brought in as one of the early planners for the Bay of Pigs, but he didn't think too much of the idea. So Bissell and those guys shipped him out to Southeast Asia. I saw him two or three times, but enough to recognize him. Kelly - Did you see him at Dealey Plaza? Holt - I tell you, I did see somebody at Dealey Plaza who looked a hell of a lot like him, but I couldn't be sure. In those pictures, you see one of those cops lagging so far behind that it was as if he wan't even with us. And as we walked by the Depository wall, there was somebody who was walking the other way who looked remarkably like Lansdale. I had seen him in the latter part of 1960, maybe early 1961, but I never saw a picture of him. Gary Shaw has a whole bunch of pictures of him and the funny thing about it is that he looks different in each one.

I know it because I can see it with my own eyes. This is not an attempt to divide and conquer, that's silly. This is just me looking at your claim (which you have not addressed yet about the police believing the tramps were ATF agents) and recognizing it as bogus. Mark, guys like you make me chuckle. No relation to Jack Valenti, have you? I knew that your "knowledge" was based on your own eyes. Maybe you should consider stronger glasses? Any rational, logical, objective person can look at the photo of Chauncey Holt from 1963 and know immediately and without reservation that he is not the older tramp in the photos. It's indisputable to anyone without a financial stake in the situation. Well, I guess there are a lot of people then , not as rational and objective as you, including the experts. In short what you claim here, is provably untrue. I note you said the same about Charles Harrelson. Even Harrelson himself is on record as "amazed" with the resemblance. Jack White, of all people, has no doubts either. But fortunately we have Mark Valenti, with his superb eyes and his "knowledge". Tell me , Mark, how long have you been in the JFK research business? You're pretty new on the block, aren't you? What spiked your sudden interest in the case? Have you gathered so much in so little time, or do you in fact know very little? Obviously, you have a lot to learn about Holt. I understand why you feel the need to promote this point of view, as well as directing as much traffic to your web site as possible. A classic! I was waiting for this smearing trick. It was only a matter of time. But none of that makes the Holt claim true. Look at the disconnect between Dankbaar and Jack White. One is convinced down to their bone marrow that the old tramp is Holt. The other believes with all his heart that the old tramp his Howard Hunt. Exactly my point about you. Emphasize disagreement, divide and conquer. How can this be? How can two intelligent people with powers of discernment come to such a different conclusion? You tell me. You said that the authorities mentioned the names of the tramps, so that is "close as we can get". That's like saying: With the Warren Commission we came as close as we can get. Since you seem to count yourself in the category of intelligent people, why did you not answer the question, whether your eyes tell you if Harold Doyle looks like the short tramp? Don't avoid the the question, just give me an intelligent answer, maybe you could add some details which facial features are consistent? It's because the available evidence is not conclusive. Therefore they rely on their judgement. And their judgement leads them to make subjective analysis. One guy says two plus two equals five, the other guy says two plus two equals six. I think they're both wrong. And that is as far as any of us can go until we have more pictures of all of these suspects. Sure. And Mark Valenti is right, because he has the FBI and Dallas police behind him. Well, Mark, most of us here agree that they are part of the problem , rather than the solution. Have you considered joining McAdams' newsgroup? He's still behind what they said right away. Osald killed Kenndey alone. You'll be welcomed there. Also , your theories about me pursuing hoaxes for monetary gain will fall into fertile ground there. And once again, Mr. Dankbaar, speaking of "Avoid answers, claim everything" - which Dallas cops believed the tramps were from the ATF? I did not avoid this question, look back and you'll know it. I gave you some homework to find the holes in their stories yourself. But it's no surprise you didn't want to take the trouble. But to answer once again: All of the "arresting" officers did, cause they were told so by the tramps. But they're not gonna tell you. They wanted to keep their job and pension. But since you want to rely on law enforcement so much, the FBI director himself said that Oswald killed Kennedy alone within two hours after it happened. You believed that too? Cause I don't know really where you are coming from regarding your take on the assassination. Why don't you tell us?

How do you KNOW that? Jack He doesn't. But as long as there is an argument , it's okay. Smoke and mirrors, divide and conquer. Avoid answers, claim everything, deny everthing, create uncertainty in the mind of the layman. We can also create an argument if the sun will rise tomorrow Wim

You missed something. I said I recently REVISED that opinion. Besides, if that's Lansdale on the picture with the tramps, and I now believe that he probably is, he is not dressed as a tramp. Wim

Probably unrelated: (909)277-8440 (909)277-8904 Bill Medina MBE Hispanic American Corporation 01-sep-07 Trucking, Sand & Gravel Sales Also google for : The Silver Bulletin, by Bill Medina

Isn't it possible that official agencies felt no need to lay out the microscopic details of every facet of their activities until they were challenged? In other words, maybe they saw no need to dig for the full story of the tramp IDs until they were hit with the false statements by Chauncey Holt? Well, anything is possible, untill you convincingly refute it. In the new thesis you provide, the Gedney, Abrams, Doyle story also emerged as a direct result of Chauncey's revelations, however for a different reason, namely that Chauncey's statements are false. Apart from the many other reasons to refute that, don't you think they would have done it sooner? The tramps story has been lingering on for decades going back to the sixties. My two cents as to why they didn't do it sooner, is because 1) Why worry about false ID's like Hunt and Sturgis? 2) They couldn't do it sooner, as their candidates (Gedney, Doyle and Abrams) were either still alive or too young to conceal the facial discrepancies with the photographed tramps. Which is also why you won't find any pictures of a younger Gedney, Doyle or Abrams. By the way, since you don't appear to believe that Holt was one of the tramps, do you believe they were in fact Doyle Abrams and Gedney? Do you believe that this man (far right) was the short tramp, Frenchie or whatever you want to call him? http://jfkmurdersolved.com/slide/DSC00109.JPG Now, investigators came out saying that this man, Harold Doyle, was the short tramp. I do not believe that anyone needs a degree in structure, facial structure, to notice that the head is just shaped differently for this individual. His chin is a little longer, his nose is way bigger and his lips are further away from his nose and the eyebrow-shape is completely different. - Lois Gibson

Frank, Once again, It is certain for me that the tramps were Holt, Harrelson and Rogers. Therefore I reject any other candidates. Some of them are easier to disprove than others. Gonzales is in the easy category. This thread started as Lansdale on Dealey Plaza, specificly on one of the tramsp photos. I have always rejected that thesis, simply because it seemed implausible to me that a high ranking figure like him, would hang around on the crimescene for more than an hour. Recently I revised that opinion based on new information. Wim

The coup of 1964 in Brazil. What do we know about the CIA's role, if any, in it. http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB118/index.htm http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhelliwell.htm Wim

Thanks Lee, I think Martin's article is spot on as far as what he was told. Indeed Lansdale looks different in every photo. Wim

To make it easier : http://toshplumlee.info/

I received a response from Fabian Escalante on the allegation about Almeida. I have also asked him if I may quote him here. Thus I am in waiting mode. Wim

Dear John Mc Carthy, Please take the trouble to compare known photos of Virgiolio Gonzalez with the short tramp, http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/slide/DSC00129.JPG so that we don't have to waste more time on this allegation. For your convenience, photos of Gonzalez are right here on this website: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/AAgonzalez1.jpg *************************** Dear Mark Valenti, First of all, let me say, respectfully, that the explanation you provide for the lax attitude of the DPD officers, is highly incredible to me, the more so when you know these men were alledgedly detained in relation to the murder of a President, secondly because the questionig DPD officer was alledgedly told: Find out which one shot the President. Now back to your question: Can you please cite testimony from these police officers that supports your assertion? Can you cite Dallas police documentation that supports this? You should know that the Gedney, Abrams, Doyle strory broke right after Mr. Holt went public with his story. As you will see here: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senat.../Documents.html all the Dallas Police officers involved, backed up the story and could suddenly remember the names of these these 3 individuals, where they could not in their 1963 testimonies, neither in their HSCA depositions. It is one the greatest authoritive conjobs in this case, a frantic , but reasonably succesful attempt to discredit Holt's revelations. I encourage you to study the interviews on that website and let us know where you'll find the holes in their stories. I'll give you some hints up front. They are unanimous that they detained the three "hobo's" right after the shooting and before officer Tippit was shot, as well as before Oswald was arrested and became the main suspect. Do a shadow analyis. Compare them with the shadows of the known pictures and films at the time of the murder. Shadows don't lie, you know. Also, try to determine if these officers knew Jack Ruby and what they thought of him, like if they believed he was "pro law enforcement" or operating outside of the law. Try to find me ONE contemporary photo of either Doyle, Gedney or Abrams. But PLEASE don't try to sell me that "tramps" or their families do not keep photos of themselves. Did you know that Doyle was arrested and photographed in 1975 but that his photo is "missing" from the arrest file? Did you know that Gedney was in the US Airforce and had an honorable discharge? Don't you think the FBI would have gone a little further in proving their case ........ if they could have? Let us know all the discrepancies you can find. There's much more. Wim

Okay, so he can still be asked. Is it know if he received a response from Morales and if so, what it was? Wim

Is this Martin still alive? Good old Epstein again: http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/epstein.JPG

It seems inconceivable that David Phillips would have been Martin's "possible source" to contact David Morales.

No info, I only know that Luis Posada used the name Ramon Medina in El Salvador during the Iran Contra supplies. Wim

Good answers, Tosh. It sure can be frustrating, not? FWIW, IMO the absence of juicy details in your account, like "I saw movement and a gun barrel on the 6th floor ...... and also a puff of smoke on the knoll" adds to your credibility as well as your proven liasons with the intelligence world of black ops and-anti Castro folks. http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/tosh+tony.jpg Wim

Here's the disinfo cover story from Gus Russo. http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/russo.jpg Mind you, Russo is also co-producer of the new German documentary "Rendez Vous with Death" which claims that Oswald was hired by Fidel Castro to kill Kennedy (alone). Wim

Dear Mark Valenti, Before I answer, have you ever heard a more likely explanation for the lax attitude in this "arrest"? Wim

You might be interested in the Kammer memorandum. SECRET FOR THE RECORD 1 Feb.1961 FROM: Kammer SUBJECT: XXXXXXXXXXX (blacked out) #188074 1. On this date Subject's case was coordinated with Mr. McCord of SRS in connection with Subject's operational use within the US by WH/4/Propaganda. The implications of a CI operation within the States by this agency and the possibility Subject might come to the attention of the FBI through association with Court Wood were discussed. 2. Mr. McCord expressed the opinion that it is not necessary to advise the FBI of the operation at this time. However, he wishes to review the case in a month. The file of Subject, along with that of the WH man who is supervising the operation(David Atlee Phillips #40695) will be pended for the attention of Mr. McCord on 1 March 1961.

John McCarthy Just curious, do you now also believe that Virgilio Gonzalez was one of the tramps? Did you just pick up that idea from Stephen Turner or have you cultivated it longer than that? In that case, could you show us some resemblance with Gonzalez? Or maybe some other evidence that I missed? Wim By the way, these "tramps" were not under arrest, they were escorted to the Sheriff's office because they had identified themselves as ATF undercover agents. So the police officers assumed they were law enforcement collegues.