Kathleen Collins
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Posts posted by Kathleen Collins
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From that point on the JFK assassination failed cover up was managed by the Council on Foreign Relations whose inner circle leadership for decades has been dominated by inner circle CIA (Allen Dulles, John J. McCloy, Nelson Rockefeller, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, George Herbert Walker Bush). Any time you hear an opinion maker on TV say something really stupid about the JFK assassination (lone nutter advocacy; not admitting Oswald was US intelligence), just google their "name CFR" ... or example "George Will CFR" or "Charles Krauthammer CFR" The CFR has been heavily manipulated by CIA Operation Mockingbird and the #1 crime they attempt to cover up - even 50 years later -is the JFK asssassination and that is because the CIA murdered John Kennedy.
With the help and participation of Lyndon Johnson, Clint Murchison, Sr. and H.L. Hunt - all with deep CIA/military connections. Like Vincent Salandria used to say early on, the JFK assassination was a coup d'etat and it is a "false mystery" as to what happened.
Robert, you're the most rabid researcher I ever read. But I want to remind you that Clint Murchison was a Jr. He was an old man. His son Is Clint Murchison III.
The next question may be from left field, but is Morris Beale related to Edie Beale, Jackie Kennedy's cousin?
Kathy C
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Best of luck to you both, Kathy and Tommy, from this side of the pond. Stay positive.
Ray,
Thank you.
--Tommy
Thanks, Tommy. My temperature went up to 103 today. But I took aspirin and used an ice pack on my head. The last time I checked it went down to 100.
Kathy Collins
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Thanks for the Holiday Wishes, Kathleen.
Now, down to business.
If anyone remembers what a tough cookie you are, it's me, no? You betcha. Keep on keepin' on, my friend.
You made me cry again!
And I wish Thomas good health. I read zinc really helps the prostate. I kinow my father and brother had problems, but they took zinc and got better.
Kathy C
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Mr. SPECTER. And you made a telephone call from the house that Mr. Olsen was guarding?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. What did you do after that?
Mrs. OLSEN. I went home.
Mr. SPECTER. At about what time did you make that telephone call?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess it was around 1:15. The President was killed at 1 o'clock, wasn't he?
Mr. SPECTER. 12:30.
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, I must have got there a little before that, then, because I didn't hear it until I sat in the car with Harry.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, didn't some lady tell you about it at the 7-11 store?
Mrs. OLSEN. Well, she said the President had been shot; that's what she said.
Mr. SPECTER. Then what is your best recollection about when you left that house?
Mrs. OLSEN. Oh, I guess about 1:30. So I must have called about 1:15.
Mr. SPECTER. Then where did you go next?
Mrs. OLSEN. I was going to take the girls to the show.
Mr. SPECTER. What show?
Mrs. OLSEN. I didn't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Some movie?
Mrs. OLSEN. Yes; a movie. And, well, I didn't; I wasn't in the mood to sit in a movie, you know, and I really can't remember.
Seems like there were quite a few. I don't have a copy of the Dallas Morning News from 1963 - but I believe that you can look up the various theatres and films playing in it for reference.
The Majestic
The Palace
The Melba
The Rialto
- lee
At the time of the assassination Mrs. Olsen was called Kay Coleman , and was one of Jack Ruby's employees at the Carousel Club. She lived with her two daughters at 325 North Ewing.
Interestingly the following information to the WC was provided by taxi-driver, William Scoggins:
Mr. BELIN. Where were you driving your cab in the early part of the afternoon
of November 22,1963, if you remember?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I picked up a gentleman at Love Field at approximately
12:35, I would say, and I discharged him at 1 o'clock at 321 North Ewing.
A couple of years ago I was informed by a fellow researcher that he had discovered that Scoggins had picked up Harry Olsen in his taxi and delivered him to Kay Coleman's place on North Ewing. If one checks out Harry Olsen's statement to the WC, he stated that he had walked over to Coleman's apartment using crutches, since his leg was in a cast.
The following URL will be of assistance in finding statements provided by the various witnesses to the WC:
Thank you for that link, Ed.
Kathy C
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just an FYI, the first patent for a plastic cup, according to my sources, was not awarded until 1964. And I'm old enough to remember that, in '63, people were not using clear plastic cups like that.
No one said it was a clear cup, Allen.
The obvious alternative is that is was a paper cup.
Maybe he's drinking milk.
Kathy C
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Robert,
there is no equivelence between Armstrong's Two Oswald Theory and the Lonsdale affair. Assuming the ID of dead people has long been an option for spies and criminals.
The de La Guardia twins were arrested and tried on drug trafficking charges - which may or may not have had a political motive concerning one of the other arrestees. I have searched for some indication that they were involved in spying and if so, that it entailed assuming each other's identity, and have found none. What exactly does Armstrong claim about them that he believes shows equivelence?
Bottom line -- if they were in fact spies, and if they did pretend to be each other as part of their spy activities -that at least makes some sense. They looked very much alike and shared personality traits and personal history. The theory that two unrelated boys - one noticably shorter and brighter than the other - were used in a lifelong project involving one pretending to be the other - and moreover, neccitating the use also of a doppleganger mother for the one dubbed "Harvey", is the stuff of z grade movies.
As for the files marked "Harvey Lee Oswald"... don't forget the one marked "Henry Oswald" -- maybe we should go for a triplet project? Or maybe there were other reasons for it. The work done by Bill Simpich may help clarify.
The Armstrong case for two Oswald's is a lot like the WC case for a lone assassin. It is built on often misunderstand, or deliberately reshaped circumstantial evidence - padded out with irrelvancies and bloated to a supersized burger for public consumption. Both can look appealing for those hungry enough for a solution. Just don't put the ingredients under a mcroscope!
The main difference is that whereas the WC never met an"Oswald sighting" it could accept - Armstrong never met one he could reject.
But both extremes were in support of a predetermined conclusion.
Greg, what about Armstrong's photos of 2 Lee Harvey Oswalds in school? (One was Harvey Lee Oswald.) And one of the Oswald's had a busted tooth in high school. And one had an inner ear surgery. Why did Marina walk up to the coffin before it was put on display and open one of his eyes to see the color? (Why else?)
I can't wait to read your book.
Kathy C
Kathy,
Hate to be a nuisance, but could you provide a link to the two photos you're referring to and provide some information on who designated one as being "Harvey Lee Oswald"?
The busted tooth photo I'm aware of, but will need to dig up all the info on it and will get back to you.
First I've heard about Marina and the coffin. Where did that information come from? I gather you are guessing as to the reason she did it (assuming she did)
That suggests a further problem... in that you seem to be saying "Lee" and "Harvey" didn't even share the same eye color?
I can think of at least one other reason someone might open the eyes to look at them: superstition. There was a lot of that still around in the '60s, particularly outside of western culture. But even western culture carries on with very old superstitions involving the dead, including covering the face with a sheet. This was originally done because it was believed the spirit escaped through the mouth.
Greg, there are photos on a disk that came with "Harvey and Lee." It apparently is Read Only. I can't copy them. There are a lot of photos of either the "birth Oswald" or they're Lee Oswald. The photos of them in school may show different Oswalds. The "Lee" one seems normal, adjusted. But after the Civil Air Patrol, it's hard to find a picture of him. Maybe leaving the TSBD and getting into the Rambler. His older pictures begin to look like Harvey (shot by Ruby). I'm sorry I can't provide his school pictures (in groups).
Kathy C
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Robert,
there is no equivelence between Armstrong's Two Oswald Theory and the Lonsdale affair. Assuming the ID of dead people has long been an option for spies and criminals.
The de La Guardia twins were arrested and tried on drug trafficking charges - which may or may not have had a political motive concerning one of the other arrestees. I have searched for some indication that they were involved in spying and if so, that it entailed assuming each other's identity, and have found none. What exactly does Armstrong claim about them that he believes shows equivelence?
Bottom line -- if they were in fact spies, and if they did pretend to be each other as part of their spy activities -that at least makes some sense. They looked very much alike and shared personality traits and personal history. The theory that two unrelated boys - one noticably shorter and brighter than the other - were used in a lifelong project involving one pretending to be the other - and moreover, neccitating the use also of a doppleganger mother for the one dubbed "Harvey", is the stuff of z grade movies.
As for the files marked "Harvey Lee Oswald"... don't forget the one marked "Henry Oswald" -- maybe we should go for a triplet project? Or maybe there were other reasons for it. The work done by Bill Simpich may help clarify.
The Armstrong case for two Oswald's is a lot like the WC case for a lone assassin. It is built on often misunderstand, or deliberately reshaped circumstantial evidence - padded out with irrelvancies and bloated to a supersized burger for public consumption. Both can look appealing for those hungry enough for a solution. Just don't put the ingredients under a mcroscope!
The main difference is that whereas the WC never met an"Oswald sighting" it could accept - Armstrong never met one he could reject.
But both extremes were in support of a predetermined conclusion.
Greg, what about Armstrong's photos of 2 Lee Harvey Oswalds in school? (One was Harvey Lee Oswald.) And one of the Oswald's had a busted tooth in high school. And one had an inner ear surgery. Why did Marina walk up to the coffin before it was put on display and open one of his eyes to see the color? (Why else?)
I can't wait to read your book.
Kathy C
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As Greg said, Kathy, Hang in there kid...Robert
Thank you Greg and Robert. And Greg, you were the only one who figured out that Oxnard call.
Kathy C
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Tommy , I have some of Jack White's work on the man with the sign.that you may be interested in....I hope he is getting much better and can rejoin us soon..b
Thanks, Bernice!
Yes, I too hope Jack is doing OK and will be back soon.
--Tommy
I can recall in recent years seeing photos of signman, hooking arms with a woman with her pocketbook hanging off her arm as they ran up the Grassy Knoll. I could be mistaken.
Kathy C
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I want to thank you all. Have a good holiday today and New Year's Eve. Don't get too drunk! Thanks to Jim DiEugenio, Mark, Martin and Bernice.
Kathy C
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Dear fellow members, I want to thank all of you who have been so kind to me and to wish you a great holiday season.
I am also selling books on eBay.com Idyllic Books. I did pretty good this week.
However, yesterday I was given an unexpected diagnosis. First, I have emphysema in both lungs. Haven't smoked since 1983. I have congestion on the left side, whatever that means. I was diagnosed as having pneumonia. Then a Nodule was present in my lung x-ray. I have fits of coughing where I can't get air into my throat; it just takes over. He's got me on medication, but so far I don't feel any better.
I had gone up to see my brother, who is on dialysis, in NJ. I began to feel weird when I hit Tampa airport, coming home. The whole week I've been sleeping on and off. The doctor is sending me for blood work having to do with my immune system.
But besides that I've had a great time!
So, Happy Holidays,
Kathy C
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It's not Oswald, it's Michael Rennie. Klaatu had the day off.
Klaatu barada nikto
This was how Michael Rennie looked. The LHO man has a different posture than the real Lee Harvey Oswald.
Kathy C
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Len,
The significant differences revolve around the planes and passengers and the detail I give as to where each went. Here is an outline of my ideas, with an asterisk for each different ideas:
What happened to each of the planes?
Flight 11 allegedly struck World Trade Center 1 (North Tower)
*Flight 11 – There was no such flight
*Flight 11 Decoy ("11D") – Took off from Boston Logan airport and was identified as Flight 11
*Where did 11D go? – It flew toward the World Trade Center and got within one-half mile of it
*What happened to 11D? – It landed safely
What happened to WTC 1? – Another aircraft struck it
Flight 175 allegedly struck World Trade Center 2 (South Tower)
Flight 175 – It took off from Boston Logan Airport
Where did 175 go? - It flew west, switching its flight # to 89 and doing a hijacking simulation
What happened to 175? – It landed safely in Cleveland
*Flight 175 Decoy ("175D") – Took off from Boston Logan Airport and was identified as 175
*Where did 175D go? – It flew toward the World Trade Center and got within one-half mile of it
*What happened to 175D? – It stayed in the air (unidentified) and then served as a decoy for 93
What happened to WTC 2? - Another aircraft struck it.
Flight 77 allegedly struck the Pentagon
Flight 77 – There was no such flight
*Flight 77 Decoy ("77D") – It flew west and was identified as 77
What happened to 77D? – I don't know; I speculate it flew over the Pentagon
Flight 93 allegedly crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania
Flight 93 – It took off from Newark Airport
Flight 93 Decoy ("93D") – No
Where did 93 go? – It flew west
What happened to 93? It went toward Cleveland, then flew back to Pennsylvania and landed safely.
As for the SSDI, my point was that the percentage of people identified as dead on SSDI was far lower than what SSDI says it does and lower than my own test. It is a minor point and not worth much of our time.
About the plane in Shanksville. Do you recall what we could see of the "wreckage"? It looked like household garbage. Someone, maybe from here, said that a big bomb was put in an old sewer pipe. No plane hit the ground, though I believe a large airplane was seen heading in that direction. It was garbage. That's why there was only a puff of smoke. And the people had all "vaporized," a word they used all day.
Kathy C
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This item appears to be sourced from Wim D. and/or Scott K.
Opinions solicited for this:
I don't see anyone in that clip that resembles Lee Harvey Oswald.
I do. This is Oswald with a lot of hair on his head and a nose like Pinocchio, but it's Oswald. I think I see David Morales in the picture too.
Kathy C
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Prior to the Long coat/ TJM/Signal, the IBM looking guy with glasses seems to be in more of a hurry to take his 2 friends
In front of TJM
I don't think the two are related. IMHO.
Kathy C
Oh those guys! They look like Operation Phoenix guys Colby (William) and Milberg (Warren). Or maybe their cousins!
Cheers
PF
FWIW, there were three of them walking in a tight group in the foreground. (Hey! Maybe they were "tight"!)
I meant that the IBM man and 2 friends aren't related to Tan Jacket Man and whatever he was up to.
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Prior to the Long coat/ TJM/Signal, the IBM looking guy with glasses seems to be in more of a hurry to take his 2 friends
In front of TJM
I don't think the two are related. IMHO.
Kathy C
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Both hands are not is his pockets.
You're right. I stand corrected. Good catch.
It's virtually impossible to tell what his left hand is doing in the full-speed clip.
But in this clip, I don't see an object in his left hand. I see his fingers moving, though.
David,
He was very good. He was a professional.
--Tommy
It does look like an umbrella, but I don't think they made umbrellas that small in those days. You know, the folding umbrella came out later, I believe. It rained that morning. Possibly an umbrella, possibly a gun or possibly a phone.
Kathy C
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I'm not good at car types, but in TJM where you can see the background better, there are 2 cops and a man with a long coat. They seem to be standing near a green rambler. Is that car a rambler? Maybe TJM has his car keys in hand and must wait till it clears.
Does anyone else see it that way?
Kathy C
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I have always heard it was a mannlicher cancarno, but then they had another rifle.
Wayne Dorothy said that President Kennedy underwent his autopsy "several days later."
Is he kidding? The awful affair was performed that very night Nov 22-23. Jackie, with her husband's blood still on her hands, arrived home around 4am on the 23rd. Somehow the Kennedys got ahold on the brain, which was put in a stainless steel container and buried in the grave with the assassinated President. There was a photo once with the container on the ground of the cemetery next to the opened grave in 1967. It again was buried in a new location they found more suitable to President Kennedy. This was done in the middle of the night with the cemetery guarded by the National Guard. The photo I couldn't find. But I saw it and spoke with another researcher, who had the picture about it.
Kathy C
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That is a very real possibility for the hatching of the plot of the JFK assassination. The home of Clint Murchison, Sr. where the party was supposed to have occurred on the night of 11/21/63 is located in Keller Springs which is perhaps a 30-45 minute car drive from Dealey Plaza.
I do think the CIA and some anti-Castro Cubans (who considered JFK to be a traitor) were involved in the JFK assassination. I do not think this was hatched in one day though; the planning for the JFK assassination took months and it was probably seeded in the minds of folks like Lyndon Johnson YEARS before the event.
I wish someone would post the actual address of Clint Murchison Sr.'s old home in Keller Springs.
The Murchison family was joyous and happy at the death of John Kennedy.
Their family maid May Newman describes the scene: "The mood in the Murchison family home was very joyous and happy. For a whole week after like champagne and caviar flowed, every day of the week. But I was the only one in that household at that time that felt any grief for his assassination."
I was told by a JFK researcher at JFK Lancer this month that May Newman later became the maid for Ted Gunderson.
Robert, I admire your wealth of knowledge about these people. But I wanted to tell you something I thought someone else would have. In the Assassination we are dealing with Clint Murchison JUNIOR. He was an elderly man at the time, but he was a Jr. His son is a big shot in Dallas today and he's called Clint Murchison III.
This Murchison's ex-first wife died under odd circumstances. I have the feeling the coroner, out of fear, said her liver was destroyed and that's why she had black eyes and other bruises. She was under the care of a psychiatrist and was in her 40's when she died. The coroner said she must have taken too much Tylenol -- he mentioned that brand name instead of acetaminephine. Wouldn't a woman who was wealthy and well known in the community have better access to stronger pain pills than Tylenol? Just something about this story smells rotten.
Anyway, it was Clint Murchison Jr who was in on the Assassination. And I think the meeting took place Nov 21 at the Dallas home, no matter what the psychic said. There may have been several meetings leading up to this at the Murchison's ranch.
Kathy C
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Note, too, the Black (Cuban?; ZR/RIFLE West Indies?) Adolescent and two Black (Cuban?; ZR/Rifle West Indies?) men looking at Long Coat Man in the background at exactly the same time that TJM looks at him, and they start following TJM as soon as TJM starts turning to leave.
In a less-severely cropped version of this footage, you can also see a Rambler Station Wagon with its headlights on in the background and a little to the right of center. And guess what? Another LONG COAT MAN (Rip Robertson or John Adrian O'Hare?) gets real close to the Rambler and then veers of to his right. Hmmm...
I truly think that TJM was the guy that Howard Brennan and Amos Euins saw shooting from the "sniper's nest" and was also seen by Roger Craig getting into a Rambler Station Wagon a few minutes later.
To watch it in slow motion, see Gerda Dunkel's 2/19/11 post on the JFK Assassination Forum:
http://www.jfkassass...pic,3888.0.html or find it on YouTube and slow it down manually[/b] (click-click...click-click,....).
--Tommy
P.S.
I think that Roger Craig's description of the guy he saw get into the Rambler station wagon dovetails with what Euins (and let's not forget Howard Brennan's statement that the guy shooting from the sniper's nest was wearing a dingy-looking white shirt) said about the guy he saw in the sniper's nest. Tan Jacket Man's behavior in the parking lot, plus the fact that he strongly resembled LHO, leads me to believe that he was not only a conspirator, but was one of the men who shot at JFK.
See Greda Dunkel's great posts on the JFK Assassination Forum, as well as this one by Sean Murphy: http://www.jfkassass...pic,3888.0.html
--Tommy
I agree with you 100%. What he hands the dark-haired man looks like a small gun, or it could be a wallet, but it's certainly not a phone.
This is a breakthrough. This is history. All these decades and we didn't know about this man. And he does resemble Oswald as they both look like losers. For some reason he looks foreign to me. But just think how this man popped up after 48 years. We don't even know his name!
Kathy C
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I agree, but don't think it's silly to go through a learning process.
Of course, I believe the Tan Jacket Man was the sniper from the 6th floor window of the TSBD. Why are you so quick to discard this evidence? This is a breakthrough. Let's follow it. It's too coincidental. Now they found footage of him in the Bell film (I believe).
To me he doesn't look American. But he looks like a down-and-out loser like Oswald. John Armstrong's book places Lee Oswald in the 6th floor window. Apparently, that's not the case.
Kathy C
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Incredible.
The NY Times does not realize why its business is falling apart. Its stuff like this that has driven millions of people to the alternative press.
"Ineffective in domestic policy, evasive on civil rights, and a serial blunderer in foreign policy."
Oh really?
Just read Bernstein's fine book Promises Kept. You will see an excellent overview of Kennedy's domestic agenda and how he very carefully planned for its success.
This whole civil rights issue is so badly mangled by Kennedy's enemies that its almost ahisitorical. No president before JFK ever took on this issue. Not Roosevelt, not Truman, not Ike. Why? Because each one knew that any civil rights program would come afoul of two things: 1.) J. Edgar Hoover and 2.) Congress.
Therefore, Kennedy developed an alternative strategy. Through is brother he would use US Marshalls instead of the FBI to protect people like the Freedom Riders, and this would slowly show up the FBI.
Second, knowing that Congress would never pass civil rights legislation unless they had to, he did what he could through executive orders in 1961 and 1962.
Ross, did you forget about James Meredith, and how Kennedy sent in US troops to quell a riot stoked by Edwin Walker. And how Kennedy was so determined that Meredith be allowed to go to class unharassed that he had two marshalls escorting him every day for about a year?
Kennedy understood that slowly but surely things like this would turn public opinion around and shame Congress into acting. He was right. Bull Connor at Birmingham finally tipped the scales for him. Realizing that display of ferocity would be enough, he then went full force to submit his ciivl rights bill through congress. He then made his powerful public address on the issue, something no other president thad ever done. He then did something that no other white politician in Washington would do: he backed King's March on Washington and had his brother help organize it to get tens of thousands of whites there so it would not look on TV as if was a mostly black movement.
This was enough to get some Republicans on board like Dirksen and Kuchel. He then said during a press conference that he expected his program to be passed by the end of the year. It did get out of Committee in November. But he obviously was not planning on getting assassinated.
Bernstein's book was written back in 1991. Along with Gibson's Battling Wall Street, and Mahoney's JFK: Ordeal in Africa, these for me are the three core books in understanding Kennedy's presidency. Without them you are lost.
This is the one thing that bothers me about Gore Vidal. He always says the worst President we've ever had was Kennedy because he brought us closer to nuclear annihilation than any other President. First of all, it was Kennedy's Joint Chiefs of Staff that brought us closest to nuclear war. Kennedy was truly afraid they were going to bomb Cuba with a nuclear missile without his permission. They were so rabid -- Lemnitzer and LeMay, etc. He and Bobby were pretty isolated from the rest of his administration. This comes from the book "Brothers" by David Talbot.
Also, Kennedy had us using silver instead of gold, from which we'd have to borrow and owe the Federal Reserve. Kennedy's method would close all the banks and make us a country without debt.
Amazing.
Kathy C
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Christian, I have some photo software in my computer. One is called Paint.NET. It has layering and multiply and similar words you've used. Do you think I can look at some Kennedy photos, like the Grassy Knoll by adding layers?
Kathy C
The Two Oswald Phenomena Explained
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Kathleen Collins
Kathy C