Dixie Dea

Hi Francesca I did notice that you had joined this forum and also thought about when I saw you in Dallas for the JFK 40th Year Anniversary. I also remmeber some of those big bad discussions we all use to have at Prouty's. Yes, Cameron does have your photo, because I have seen it too...:-) I thought it was great that you guys could come all the way from the UK. Some such as Ian Griggs and John Gill and others, I had previously met though. I had to cancel my trip to Dallas for last Nov, because of healh reasons. But, hopefully I will be able to be there this Nov. I have been trying to get Terry to join us and perhaps this year she will be able to. I don't know if Cameron will be going or not, but he did go last year. Hopefully you will also be able to be there, as well as others in your DPUK group, such as John Simkin. So many times, I hear about a Conference or Seminar with a speaker or topic of interest and would like to either read or hear the presentation. However, it is not always easy to acquire this information. Regards Dixie

These are some of the of the free ebook downloads that I have found. If you know of others, please add to the list. "Silent Coup" Nixon Era Center Library by Len Colodny & Robert Gettlin 1991 http://www.nixonera.com/etexts/silentcoup/contents.asp "The Secret Team, The CIA and Its Allies in Control of the United States and the World" Fletcher Prouty, Col, USAF (Retired) 1997 http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html "PRESUMED GUILTY, How and why the Warren Commission framed Lee Harvey Oswald. Factual account based on the Commission's public and private documents", by Howard Roffman 1976 http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/ "When They Kill A President" by Roger Craig 1971 http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html "Nomenclature of an Assassination" by William Torbitt http://www.newsmakingnews.com/torbitt.htm "THE TAKING OF AMERICA, 1-2-3" by Richard Sprague 1985 http://www.ratical.com/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToA.html "The Search for the Manchurian Candidate" by John Marks.....1979 http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/marks.htm "I'm a Patsy, I'm A Patsy" Manuscript by George DeMohrenchildt 1977 http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo4/...2/hscapatsy.htm ____________________________________ In addition, you can also download Craig Roberts Books: JFK: The Dead Witnesses ($11.95) Kill Zone ($15.00) and The Medusa File ($20.00) Recently, I learned that JFK: The Dead Witnesses is going for $75 to $150...so for $11.95, you can just download it. The Sniper's Perspective: Craig Robert's Official Website http://www.riflewarrior.com/ I already mentioned in another thread, Richard Popkins, The Second Oswald that you can also download for $7.95 I am sure there are several others too! _________________ Dixie

As everyone knows, some of the used older books can be hard to find and also sometimes, rather costly. If anyone wants to read Popkin's, The Second Oswald, you can download it, for around $7.50. I found several ebook sources where you can download this book. Just go to google and write in...The Second Oswald ebooks. Below are a couple of the sources that I found. The Second Oswald - Richard Popkin - Mobipocket eBooks http://www.ebookmall.com/ebook/94563-ebook.htm eBooks.com - The Second Oswald eBook http://usa2.ebooks.com/ebooks/book_display.asp?IID=116131 Dixie

Tim No, I don't really know anything about Mr Dear's work on LHO's exhumaion. Although the info is probably around the internet someplace. I will check around and if I find anything I will post it, unless someone beats me to it. You can read the First Chapter of the OJ book here.... O.J. Simpson Is Guilty But Not Of Murder by William Dear http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/rr00554.htm And there is much more info about Wiliam Dear and his Private Detective Agency here. He is in Dallas, Tx and his office is (or was anyway) on Stemmons Freeway. William C. Dear http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.dear.html Dixie

I live in CA and yet I had a whole different experience then with blacks believing OJ was innocent. In fact, I believe the media has made a bigger issue out of the race thing then actualy existed, as far as that jury is concerned. At the time of OJ's trial, I had several Black clients as well as White clients. The trial was a big topic of conversation, most of the time. I did not, have one black person tell me they believed OJ was innocent. They were also not falling for the race-card gimmick. In fact, they were mostly amused and believed it was way to obvious or mostly just rediculous just as I believed. Among those I worked with, we had a little side bet, just before the jury handed down the verdict. I voted, 'Not Guilty." I did believe he was guilty, but I also believed the Prosecution screwed up and I only saw reasonable doubt. Today, I am not so sure that OJ did actually kill Nicole and Ron Goldman!!! I realize that is a strange thing for me to say. However, after reading he following book, it made a whole lot of sense to me. Although, I am not positive, this book does at last bring me back to the thought of reasonable doubt. Mr Dear says that it was OJ's older son. and that he had motive, means and opportunity...as well as a history of mental problems, drug abuse and violent temper problems. He was also very upset with Nicole that evening! O.J. Simpson Is Guilty But Not Of Murder by William Dear http://www.atlasbooks.com/marktplc/00554.htm It is different with MJ. I haven't head any favorable reactions in regard to the verdict. Most everyone is shocked. I believed he was guilty, yet I did not believe that family and most I have talked to, didn't either. I am also sorry to say that I believe whatever may have happened, was allowed and even encouraged by the mother.....for a purpose. Then for some reason the game was over and that is when all hell broke loose. Whatever.... that does not imply MJ wasn't guilty. Yet, I don't believe the jury was allowed to hear the evidence that would most likely have convicted MJ. Dixie

I have no idea what Dillion may or may not have done, since he has never entered my areas of research. Therefore, I am neutral. I believe I may read Sorenson, as Tim suggests. I am just no longer into the Political picture as I once was. I will also add that I am in fact, a registered Republican and I also voted for Nixon. At the time. I believed Nixon was the best man for the job, so to speak. I did not approve of the Kenendy's and their lifestyles. Most likely I also believed all the Right Wing Propaganda of that era....although nothing extreme. I also believed that because Nixon had been VP under Ike, that he would be the best President. I was also a very different type person, then I am today. Today, I do not stick to the Republican nor the Democrat platform If I choose to vote, I darn sure would vote for whomever I choose to vote for. I did not vote for our current President, nor am I pleased with him. I have had some major exchanges with close relatives who believe our current President is the greatest thing, this country has ever had. and exactly what this country needs. Needless to say I do not agree!! It was for a long time, very hard for me to even think that Nixon would do all that has been proclaimed about him in Watergate. I wanted to believe there were other answers that would hopefully exonerate him. But then one day, I did accept the truth. He was not whom, or what I had believed him to be. For sure, I did not want to believe he may have had, at the very least, prior knowledge, about JFK's Assassination. Yet, the more I have looked at what all went down in regard to Nixon and the day of the Assn. I do accept the possibility, he may have had prior knowledge. I do not know this to be fact and even hate to believe it might be true, but I do now have to re-evaluate my previous beliefs. Just because I did not vote for JFK, does not indicate that I was not distraught over his assn. In fact, I have been studying the Assn for many years. ...probably since the day it occurred. This was our country's President and he was assn. right on the street for the world to see. This was unreal....such things do not occur in our country. Yet they do, and they did. Perhaps my nievenes changed on that day! Now on to friend turning against friend! I have to believe it does happen...a whole lot. Lets play, "what if"...... You are a Member of a Board of Directors and the Chairman, who is also your friend, is making some very bad decisions. He just will not listen to reason from the rest of the board directors. Somehow, this is affecting the whole Company. They are all screaming at the board to do something! Eventualy the board members decides to have a secret meeting, although probably unethical. Yet you all do feel justified, under the circumstances. It is unanimous that somehing has to be done and matters taken into your own hands. Could be, since he is your friend you might volunteer to speak with him just one more time. So you do so and it is to no avail. Another secret meeting is held and it is decided he has to go, in the best interests of the company. This hurts you very much, to turn against your friend and to be involved in a conspiracy to get rid of him. Then, another meeting is called, with the Chairman invited this time to be there. He is going to be asked to resign and if he refuses to do so, then other measures will need to be taken. So......the day before the planned meeting, this Chairman has been found murdered. Now what? You did plot to get rid of him, even though murder was not in your head at all. ..and after all, this was your friend. So, it has never been proven who murdered him or even the reason. Perhaps there is also a cover up, among the board members, who do not ever reveal that there was a plan to get rid of him. Even if you decided to come clean and tell the truth, who is actually going to believe you? It is only your word against the rest of the board members. You even feel that one among you, did murder him, yet you really don't even know which board member it was, or even if it might have been the real plan and you were not privy to it. It is very easy to say that we would speak out...but then there is also our family to think about. besides maybe our own life and livlihood. So, you had turned against your friend and conspired to get rid of him and yet you had belived it was for the right reasons and you also had no pre-knowledge that murdering him was involved. So, in this instance, are you guilty or not? You are definitely, at least guilty of a cover-up...and you cannot prove you had no pre-knowledge of a murder plan. I believe this actualy did occur among some factions who believed that JFK had to go. I also believe this was all brought about, by the Fascist Regime., all the way up to the Military, to implement. Perhaps to some, this meant an impeachment by the Judicial process and not as a murder on the street. Yet, it did happen and was a real coup. ...and some who would not have gone along with such a plan, were perhaps caught up in the coversup, even though they have no idea what actually occurred, or I should also say, who was actually involved in the coup. Friends do turn on friends, but usually it is for a bigger purpose, then the friendship can support. Unfortunately, sometimes there is, (whether right or wrong) a matter of principals before personalities. What I am trying to say is that we cannot always make a blanket statement that a friend will not turn on a friend. I have no idea if Dillion turned on JFK or not. He may have or may not have. However, we always do need to research more then one or two books, that might actually be slanted one way or the other. If I choose to study about Dillion, (or anyone else) I will check out several sources of information, before even attempting to make a decision about him. I do realize these are only my own opinions which I felt compelled to express in this thread. Dixie

On the afternoon of JFK's assassination, there were many arrests made. Some, for no apparent reason other than merely looking suspicious, to someone, who made a phone call to the police. The most well known, of course, were the three men or the so-called tramps, taken from a boxcar near Dealey Plaza. They were led across Dealey Plaza to the police station, and no arrest records had apparently been made. Although there has been much speculation through the years, no one actually knows who these three men were. There are dozens of unconfirmed arrests, where there seems to be no arrest reports found. Once Lee Harvey Oswald was charged with the crime the paper trail around the other so-called suspects clearly didn't have a great deal of priority. One piece of relatively new information, is that an "unidentified suspect" was taken into custody.a couple of hours after the assn. in Fort Worth, 30 miles west of Dallas, This person was claimed to be David Atlee Phillips, a former CIA operative who was based in Mexico City, while Lee Harvey Oswald was purportedly visiting Soviet and Cuban embassies in that city, and/or the "Maurice Bishop" character said to be Cubans refugees' CIA contact for the Bay of Pigs operation. This information comes from Robert Morrow in his book, "First Hand Knowledge". Morrow, claims to be a former CIA contract agent who supposedly delivered four Mannlicher- Carcano 7.65mm rifles to David Ferrie for what he later determined to be the JFK assassination, one of which he says he kept. He discusses the purchase and delivery of these rifles to Ferrie, who of course, cannot confirm or deny Morrow's allegation since he is dead. Nor can Morrow's CIA connection be affirmed or refuted; we have no choice but to either take the man at his word or not, since it was seemingly, impossible to prove one way or the other. As evidence of Phillips' apparent complicity in the murder, Morrow includes a photo of Phillips beside the House Assassinations Committee's sketch of "Bishop," which many researchers agree look strikingly similar. The photo is included with the Phillips and "Bishop" pictures. Even while the angles of the men's faces are different, making a direct comparison difficult if not impossible, there does indeed appear to be a resemblance between them. What was Phillips/Bishop doing in Fort Worth? Morrow cites Gary Shaw and Larry Ray Harris' "Cover-Up" to state that no record of this man's arrest exists and, in fact, the negatives of the pictures taken of the arrest have disappeared from the files of The Fort Worth Star-Telegram. We might wonder, who but the government could manage such an obvious cover-up, However, as we will discover, it is quite clear that David Atlee Phillips, was NOT the man in the photo Morrow uses to implicate him. This is perhaps an abject lesson for us not to take everything we reads at face value, no matter what the credentials of an author may seem to be.... Although Shaw and Harris claimed no arrest record exists for the this person, in 1993, Fort Worth researcher, M. Duke Lane walked into his local police station and found the man's arrest record in their archives in about fifteen minutes. This man is Kenneth Glenn Wilson. In addition, another man arrested in this story, named Donald Wayne House, looks a somewhat like, Lee Harvey Oswald. For M. Duke Lanes' complete report and interviews see.... "The Cowtown Connection." by M. Duke Lane http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/cowtown.txt ______________________________________ On Overview Donald Wayne House On the morning of November 22, Donald Wayne House left his home in Ranger, TX bound for Mesquite (a Dallas suburb) to visit an old Army buddy, He had parked his car in a lot on Commerce Street at about 10:30 and called his buddy, who was apparently not home. Hearing that JFK was due to ride through downtown, he decided to get a glimpse of Kennedy, whom he had long admired. After the motorcade had passed, he headed toward Fort Worth on the DFW Turnpike to visit a cousin. Along the way, House says he stopped for gas at a station in Grand Prairie, where two women who had heard about the assassination asked him if he knew anything more about it. House told them that he'd heard the alleged assassin's description, which he then related to the women. The description he gave them of Oswald actually describes House as well, except that House is much shorter then Oswald. It is also possible that the women had heard the description themselves and felt that House matched it closely enough to arouse their suspicions. After House drove away, the women called the PD, who n turn notified the Sheriffs Deprt and a general broadcast, including the description and car license number, at 1: 35 pm. A short time later, the car had been apprehended and the driver was taken into custody. House was pulled over in the 3400 block of East Belknap Street near Sylvania Park. A shotgun was aimed at him and he was ordered out of his car. He was frisked an d hancuffed and put in the patrol car, and shortly before 1:57 pm, he was taken to city hall, which housed the police dept at that time and where he was photographed by newsmen. House was then put in the "shakedown" room and searched, where the only belongings that were recorded having been taken from him was a wallet containing $23 in cash and a knife. One oddity, was that when House's car was searched, it was absolutely spotless, there wasn't even a slip of paper in the glove box. Although there was an empty dynamite box in the trunk, which House claimed to have been using as a tool chest. Surprisingly, it was later learned that House supposedly junked the car a short while later, even though it was immaculate. According to House, he was interrogated by federal officers for three hours and remained alone in his cell for another hour before being cleared and released, although the jail report indicates the time was slightly shorter. Another apparent "oddity" came up when the arresting officwer (Roberts) recalled that, when he arrived at city hall later in the day, he had gone to the chief's secretary to dictate his report. About midway into his report, he says, the chief came in and told him "not to bother" completing his report, that the man had already been cleared by the Feds. There is apparwently nothing sinister about this. The official record of federal agents interviewing him exists, and was published by the Warren Commission. There is also a written police report on file, that was not signed. Kenneth Glenn Wilson While there is a relative wealth of information about Donald Wayne House available. nothing was known about the second man who is pictured in Morrows, FHK. As noted, in Cover-Up, Shaw and Harris relate that a second Fort Worth arrest was made at the same time House was taken into custody, but other than photographs from The Fort Worth Star-Telegram, there is no record of the arrest. Morrow added his opinion that the man looked like someone associated with the CIA and/or the Bay of Pigs operation. It all sounds very mysterious, almost sinister. None of the newspaper articles around that period provide any indication of who this man was, and no account of this second arrest appeared in any of the local papers. Kenneth Glenn Wilson, then of 6121 Broadway in Haltom City to the east of Fort Worth. Interestingly, he had also been arrested at the 3400 block of East Belknap Street, 23 minutes after House had been. Who was this man, and what had he been arrested for? For 30 years he has remained an identified person, until M Duke Lane made the discoveries. Wilson, an auto parts salesman, was charged as an "investigation witness." If he was the same man in the photos, this helped to explain why he is shown unmanacled in the photos taken at city hall: the man wasn't a suspect, but a witness! A witness of what? The details of the arrest provided that information: "The above subject was arrested and charged as above [inv. Witness] after he came to the scene of where House was arrested. When he arrived at the scene, he stated that he recognized the car which House was driving and stated that he thought that it belonged to his wife's cousin. On the way to the hall, the subject stated that House was recently been discharged from the service. He stated that he had not seen House lately and that his home is in Ranger Texas". .It doesn't appear there is any cause to claim a cleanup of "incriminating" photos, and certainly not with regard to this particular arrest, since, as we shall soon see, the man had nothing to do with either the assassination or the government.. It is also worth noting that, in head-on photos of the man in custody, the similarity between him and "Maurice Bishop" and/or David Atlee Phillips is no longer evident. The Unidentified Man As noted earlier, the interview House had with the Fort Worth Press said that he was traveling to Fort Worth to visit his cousin, in addition to mentioning his intent to visit his Army buddy in Dallas.This man Wilson--or rather, his wife--must be who House was going to see. The question is though, how Wilson knew House had been arrested in the first place, How did Wilson come to be at that place and time where his cousin-in-law had been arrested only moments before? At some point after the shooting, while House had been enroute to Fort Worth, Dallas police had contacted his mother_with whom he was living at the time_to determine his whereabouts. After two or three such calls, Mrs House became concerned, and called her niece, Mrs Wilson. Mrs House called the Wilsons' because, whenever Don came to Fort Worth, he would spend the night with the Wilsons and she expected he would do so this night too. Shortly after the call from her aunt, Mrs Wilson heard a radio broadcast of a suspect, identified as "22-year-old Donald House of Ranger, Texas" having been arrested at 3408 East Belknap in Fort Worth. At first, she said, she didn't recognize the name since "nobody called him Donald," but realized after a moment that it had been her cousin who'd been taken into custody in connection with the slaying. She noted that the address was only a couple of blocks from where her husband worked selling auto parts, and called to ask him to check on Don since it appeared he was in some sort of trouble. He excused himself from work and walked the short distance to where House had been arrested. There, he told officers that he thought the car belonged to his wife's cousin, and was taken into custody at 2:20 pm He was looking out for Don, and they ended up taking him to jail! He was not charged with a crime, and as the record of his arrest shows, he was brought in solely as a witness. He was questioned about his relationship with Don House and released 90 minutes later, at 3:50. He returned home with his wife, where House joined them a couple of hours later.when House was released at 5:15 pm. ______________________________________ Bernice said she will post a couple of photos for me...Thanks Bernice! ________________ Dixie

I have made some observations and don't feel that the tramps were actually under arrest, but instead were being escorted out of there. I also don't feel that back cop, is actually a cop. Look at the bottom of his pants legs, how short the pants are. Plus, the way they are carrying their weapons. Although I believe one of them was actualy a cop. I also don't feel that the so-called old-man tramp is actually an old man. Chauncey Holt's daughter Karyn, is a friend of mine. She told me that even though the three guys have always been referred to as tramps, they were actually intended to be railroad workers. Dixie

Peter Janney Welcome! I am hoping to learn all that you will be able to tell us, in regard to Mary Meyer, as well as other information. By coincidence, I just finished reading "The Georgetown Ladies' Social Club" by C. David Heymann. I gained much more insight into the Georgetown, Washington Post and CIA connections which came about largely through their wives social functions. After dinner, the men always went into another room for discussions. while the ladies remained alone to socialize.....that is, until Katherine Graham changed that tradition. I learned a lot more from this book, then I had anticipated, when I bought it...and do recommend it. I can also answer John's questions in regard to Cord Meyer....pages 167-168 ______________________________________ Quote..... Cord Meyer gave expression to his support of Angleton in, "Facing Reality," an autobiography subtitled, "From World Federalism to the CIA." In the same volume, he comments briefly on the murder of his wife: "I was satisfied by the conclusions of the police investigation that Mary had been the victim of a sexually motivated assault by a single individual and that she had been killed i in her struggle to escape." Carol Delaney, a family friend and longtime personal assistant to Cord Meyer, observed that, "Mr. Meyer didn't for a minute think that Ray Crump had murdered his wife or that it had been an attempted rape. But, being an Agency man, he couldn't"t very well accuse the CIA of the crime, although the murder had all the markings of an in-house rubout." Asked to comment on the case, by the current author (C. David Heymann), Cord Meyer held court at the beginning of February 2001==six weeks before his death--in the barren dining room of a Washington nursing home. Propped up in a chair, his glass eye bulging, he struggled to hold his head aloft. Although he was no longer able to read, the nurses supplied him with a daily copy of The Washington Post, which he carried with him wherever he went. "My father died of a heart attack the same year Mary was killed , " he whispered. "It was a bad time." And what could he say about Mary Meyer? Who had committed such a heinous crime? "The same sons of bitches," he hissed, "that killed John F. Kennedy." Unquote ___________________________________ Dixie

Martha Mitchell well known for her "gift of gab," wrote in her high school yearbook, "I love its gentle warble. I love its gentle flow. I love to wind my tongue up. And I love to let it go." Did she ever! Martha Mitchell, wife of Attorney General John Mitchell, during the Watergate years was outspoken and outrageous. She was a truth teller, much to Mitchell and Nixon's regret, who refused to be shut up. Martha's words of prophecy and wisdom startled and fascinated a nation over 30 years ago. During Watergate, Martha felt that Nixon was using her husband as a scapegoat so she began calling Woodward, Bernstein, and other reporters. Sometimes she called them in the middle of the night. Sometimes she took the telephone in the bathroom to make the calls so her husband would not hear her. Martha never had any qualms about shouting the administration's misdeeds, though instead of in testimony to Congress she did her shouting in 3 AM phone calls. The Los Angeles Times reported on Aug. 28, 1973, that in a late night phone call to Helen Thomas, Mitchell said, "Nixon bleeds people. He draws every drop of blood and then drops them from a cliff. He'll blame any person he can put his foot on." Mitchell spoke out against Nixon early in the Watergate Affair but she paid an enormous price. She was cruelly discredited, abandoned by her family and later died of cancer. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ A few excerpts of the book "Front Row At The White House - My Life And Times" by Helen Thomas Scribner, 1999 from pages 203-204 In December 1971 a wire story ran about Vice President Spiro Agnew's gag Christmas gift list. Included on the list were: "For Martha Mitchell, a brand-new Princess phone. For John Mitchell, a padlock for a brand-new Princess phone." "Why did Martha Mitchell call you?" someone asked me after I filed my first story based on one of her many telephone calls in which she expressed her outraged a few days after the Watergate break-in. I wasn't the only reporter she called, but I did take her seriously and I wrote about what she told me. Sometimes the stories made it to the wire and sometimes they go spiked. But Martha perhaps put the answer best herself when she told an interviewer, "Helen knows me well enough to know I'm not going to give her a line of bull. We just kind of fell into each other's arms. Several other reporters had been recommended to me, but when I talked to them they were cold fish. They were calculating, and, I thought, unwilling to stick their necks out. Helen Thomas, I knew would print the truth no matter what it cost her personally, and I wanted the truth to be known."(1) I don't think the dust will ever entirely settle on the Watergate scandal, but I do think Martha deserves more than a footnote in its history. She should be remembered as the woman who tried to blow the whistle on what was going on, but sometimes her stories seemed so out there, it was close to impossible to get anyone to listen. However, I listened and I wrote and I'll let history decide. I do remember her telling me early on in her time in Washington, "Politics is a dirty business," and I remember equally well a memorable remark her husband made shortly after they arrived: "Watch what we do, not what we say." from pages 210 - 211 On Thursday at about 9:00 P.M., Doug and I were at home, just finishing dinner, when the phone rang. It was Martha. She sounded calm, sad and uncharacteristically subdued. We chatted for a little while and I asked her about Watergate. "That's it," she said. "I've given John an ultimatum. I'm going to leave him unless he gets out of the campaign. I'm sick and tired of politics. Politics is a dirty business." Then suddenly, her voice became more agitated and she yelled, "You get away. Just get away," and the line went dead. I tried to call back several times without success and then called the switchboard operator. I was told that "Mrs. Mitchell is indisposed and cannot talk." I then called Mitchell, who had returned to Washington, at their Watergate apartment and told him what had happened during my conversation with Martha and that I was a little concerned. He sounded rather blasé but tried to ease my fears. "That little sweetheart," he said. "I love her so much. She gets a little upset about politics but she loves me and I love her and that's what counts. I'll tell you a secret: I've promised Martha I'll give up politics after this campaign." The more we talked, the more bizarre his attitude struck me, but he kept assuring me that Martha wasn't in any danger. I telephoned UPI's desk and dictated a story to Bob Taylor, who decided it was credible and ran it. Later I heard that along with Mitchell, White House counsel John Dean and a few others were in the apartment at the time of my "distress call" to him at home and they had quite a laugh over it. The story got a fair amount of play—mostly on the women's pages. Maybe editors thought it was just another case of Martha being Martha and newsworthy only because it revealed a rift in a very public marriage. Back in Washington, administration aids began hinting that Martha was hallucinating, that she was deranged or that she was just drunk. In an interview later, Martha told me, "I want to be sure my side is revealed and that people know I'm not sitting her a mental case or an alcoholic." What happened in that villa? She later told me a hair-raising story: "They threw me down on the bed—five persons did it—a doctor, a nurse, Lea Jablonsky . . . pulled my pants down and stuck a needle in my behind, the longest needle you ever saw. I've never been treated like this before." She had a gash in her hand that she said required eleven stitches. from pages 218 - 219 After Nixon resigned in August 1974, Martha found herself in demand for talk shows and interviews and "the voice that launched a thousand quips" was back in action. She traveled, visited friends, and began writing a book and making plans to host a television show. She came back to Washington in the summer of 1975 for a visit and over Labor Day weekend, at a friend's house, she fell when opening the refrigerator door. Unable to cope with the severe pain in her neck and back, she was taken to Northern Virginia Doctors' Hospital. X-rays showed she had two broken ribs and a broken neck vertebra. But other tests revealed something worse. Martha had multiple myeloma, a painful bone marrow cancer that leaves the victim's bones brittle and full of holes. She called me from the hospital an I sat by her bedside that day while doctors explained the illness to her, drawing diagrams and using words like malignancy instead of cancer. She listened quietly, her eyes round and wide, but it was as if she were listening to them describe someone else's condition. I went back to my office and, sadly, began to write the first news story of her illness. The next morning, Martha watched the news on the "Today" show. Shocked and tearful, she spoke to her friend Diane Auger. "They say I have cancer." As far as I know, she never used that word again. Friends and strangers alike flooded the hospital with get-well cards. Her son, Jay, who was working as a congressional aide, and his Mississippi-born wife, Janice, visited her often. By early October, she was anxious to leave the hospital. "Get me out of here," she'd tell everyone who came to see her. Jay brought her to an apartment leased by Diane and her husband, Tom Beury, near the Shoreham Hotel. Martha saw other doctors who confirmed the diagnosis. She tried to keep her spirits high and her outlook positive. However, of the hundreds of letters she received, she could not bear to read those from people who also suffered from the same disease, even though many of those letters went on to offer encouragement, telling her she could live a long life. In mid-November, Martha went home to New York. She spent one night in the apartment and then entered Sloan-Kettering Memorial Hospital and was put under the care of Dr. Klaus Mayer, the stocky, graying chief of hematology. "When I first saw her, she was so ill, I thought she wasn't going to last a week," Mayer said later. "But she responded beautifully." He confirmed she had a "very progressive myeloma" and her bones were eroding rapidly. Her skull, he said, looked like Swiss cheese in places. He began an aggressive chemotherapy series during which Martha's personality seemed to undergo a transformation. I spoke to Dr. Mayer periodically to check on her progress and he told me something astounding: "At first she was difficult to handle," he said. "She was paranoid. She accused me of working for Nixon. Once she suspected her disease was brought on by the injection she had forcibly received in California—a highly inaccurate supposition. "But then her attitude changed rapidly and we became good friends. I think it was mainly that she learned to trust me. But she never gave up the lingering idea that 'those guys' had induced her illness."(14) (1) Helen Thomas, Dateline: White House (New York: Macmillan, 1975), p. 218. (14) Helen Thomas, interview with Dr. Meyer, taken from story notes, date unknown. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ On the Washington Post Forum, in an interview with Bob Woodward, he had this to say about Martha MItchell....... Question: Martha Mitchell was often seen and heard making cryptic remarks about Watergate, but she was dismissed by the media as having mental problems. Were any of her remarks accurate as the events were unfolding? Bob Woodward: Martha Mitchell spoke a lot of the truth. Though she did not understand the details of Watergate and the various corruptions of what her husband, former attorney general John Mitchell called "the White House horrors," she understood Nixon's impulses to abuse power. One undisclosed Watergate incident involves a time she allowed Carl Bernstein and myself to go through some of her husband's papers in his apartment office after she had thrown him out one time. She was a joyful woman who loved fun and truth-telling, two matters not normally associated with the Nixon presidency. Another Washingtom Post Forum Interview with Ben Bradlee..... Question: My question concerns Martha Mitchell. Did the Nixon administration attempt to discredit her? Ben Bradlee: They certainly did. They tried to make her look like a "nut case" and they succeeded to some extent. Question: In our discussion with Bob Woodward a few minutes ago, he revealed that Martha Mitchell let him and Bernstein rummage through John Mitchell's papers one night. Can you tell us some more about that incident and why it hasn't been known before? Ben Bradlee: That's the first I ever heard them rummaging through Mitchell's papers. I suspect you haven't heard about it before because they didn't get anything out of those papers. __________________ -Dixie-

From what I understand, both Lindy Boggs as well as their daughter, Cokie Roberts, deny that Hale had changed his mind about the WC conclusions. Both also still claim to believe the WC got it right. Dixie

Shanet said... William BITTMAN (not Buttman!) Thanks for clearing up the Egil Krogh angle, very fishy to put a top domestic dirty tricks and plumber's helper in the FAA executive slot at that exact time. (A similar thing happened when Vince Foster "committed suicide" in the park. Swarms of federal officials were there immediately.) Ruckleshaus was unresponsive, almost arrogant in his answer to Reed. What about the reference to 12 watergate conspirators on the plane? This was evidently staged to silence Hunt, the carrot and the stick. ------------------- During the Watergate Hearings, I watched quite a bit of it. I was interested in what Hunt would have to say when he was questioned. I do recall that he was asked about that plane crash, which killed his wife. He was also asked if he had any suspicions about it and he said, "No". I did wonder what he really thought or knew about it though. Incidently, just for extra unrelated info, I was also surprised to see John and Yoko sitting in the viewing section several times, during the hearings. Dixie

Hi I do realize this is a bit "off-topic," but I just wanted to take this opportunity, with the photos to point this out to those who have not been to DP. In Robin's post #8, it appears that the photo may have been taken from an upper floor of the old Paramount Hotel It has been refurbished and is now called the Lawrence Hotel. This is where the JFK COPA Conference is gathered each November. In addition, in Post #11 you can see the old dark colored building which is the old courthouse...looks like a cathedral. Just across from it, is the side street and the taller white building, with the wall looking facade that comes down in front. I believe this is called the Bradley Bldg. Behind it, is another side street and just across this street, is where the Lawrence Hotel is actually located. I just wanted to show everyone that has never been there, how close the COPA Conf and Hotel is to DP. I have been asked this question many times by those who are thinking of going there. ________________ Dixie

I don't recall if I have posted this here before or not, but I do question if Linnie Mae Randle actually saw all that she claimed to have seen. WC Testimony Of Linnie Mae Randle http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/randlelm.htm Excerpts of Testimony Mr Ball Mr. BALL. He walked over to your house, did he? Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I saw him as he started crossing the street. Where he come from then I couldn't say. Mr. BALL. You don't know where he went from that? Mrs. RANDLE. Where he went? Mr. BALL. Did you see him go to the car? Mrs. RANDLE. Yes. Mr. BALL. What did he do? Mrs. RANDLE. He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down so I closed the door. I didn't recognize him as he walked across my carport and I at that moment I wondered who was fixing to come to my back door so I opened the door slightly and saw that it--I assumed he was getting in the car but he didn't, so he come back and stood on the driveway. Mr. BALL. He put the package in the car. Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; I don't know if he put it on the seat or on the floor but I just know he put it in the back. Senator Cooper Senator COOPER. On that point--did you see Lee Oswald place the package in the automobile? Mrs. RANDLE. In the automobile. I do not know if he put it on the seat or on the floor. Senator COOPER. I mean did you see him throw open the. door? Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir. Senator COOPER. When he placed the package in there do you remember whether he used one hand or two? Mrs. RANDLE. No; because I only opened the door briefly and what made me establish the door on Wesley's car, it is an old car and that door, the window is broken and everything and it is hard to close, so that cinched in my mind which door it was, too. But it was only briefly that I looked. Mr Jenner Mr. JENNER. Mr. Chief Justice, could I ask--how far away were you? You were at the kitchen door and the automobile was in the driveway, what was the distance between yourself and Mr. Oswald? Mrs. RANDLE. Sir, I don't know. The carport will take care of two cars, and then Wesley's car was on the other side of the carport so that would be three car lengths plus in between space. Mr. JENNER. Car widths? Mrs. RANDLE. Car widths, excuse me. ______________________________________ Linnie could have seen LHO cross the empty lot and walk towards her carport, from her small kitchen window and could have seen IF he was carrying a large package. http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0097b.htm She thought he went into her carport and she opened the kitchen door to peek out, (bottom photo) http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0096b.htm What Linnie could see when she looked out her kitchen door (top photo) http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0097a.htm Where Wesley Frazier actually parked his car (bottom photo) http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol17_0097a.htm IMHO... Linnie Mae Randel could have seen LHO approach her house with (or without) a package, but she I don't think she could have seen him place the package in Wesleys car, as she testified. Linnie's mother, Essie Mae Williams testified in an FBI Report to SA Henry Oliver on 12/10/63,,,that she also watched LHO approah their house from their kitchen. and he was NOT carrying a brown bag or anything else. I have not yet located Essie's testimony, to verify it. Dixie

Geneva Hines, working at the 2nd Floor Credit Desk at the TSBD testified to an odd occurance at Warren Caster's Office. Caster was the District Manager of the Southwest Publishing Co, also located on the TSBD 2nd floor. As already mentioned, Caster was gone that day to a meeting and lunch with a Professor. Although the Professor was not questioned about this meeting! All those working in Geneva's office wanted to see the Motorcade, so she told them to go on and she would stay in the office to answer the phones. This is a portion of her WC testimony: Mr. BALL. Did you stay at your desk? Miss HINE. Yes, sir: I was alone until the lights all went out and the phones became dead because the motorcade was coming near us and no one was calling so I got up and thought I could see it from the east window in our office. Mr. BALL. Did you go to the window? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you look out? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you see? Miss HINE. I saw the escort car come first up the middle of Houston Street. Mr. BALL. Going north on Houston Street? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; going north on Houston Street. I saw it turn left and I saw the President's car coming and I saw the President and saw him waving his hand in greeting up in the air and I saw his wife and I saw him turn the corner and after he turned the corner I looked and I saw the next car coming Just at the instant I saw the next car coming up was when I heard the shots. Mr. BALL. How many did you hear? Miss HINE. Three. Mr. BALL Could you tell where the shots were coming from? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they came from inside the building. Mr. BALL. How do you know that? Miss HINE. Because the building vibrated from the result of the explosion coming in. Mr. BALL. It appeared to you that the shots came from the building? 395 Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you know they were shots at the time? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; they sounded almost like cannon shots they were so terrific. Mr. BALL. That is when you were at the window, is that right? Miss HINE Yes, sir; that is when I was at the window, because the next car, you see, was coming up and turning and I looked. Of course I looked when I heard the shots. I just stood there and saw people running to the east up Elm Street. I saw people running; I saw people falling down, you know, lying down on the sidewalk. Mr. BALL. That was on Houston Street? Miss HINE. No, sir; Elm. Mr. BALL. You could see could you see any part of Elm? Miss HINE. East, yes, sir. Mr. BALL. You could see east on Elm? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; I could see east on Elm. I saw them run across east on Elm away from where his car had gone and my first thought was if I could only see what happened, so I went out our front door into the foyer. Mr. BALL. You mean the front door to the office? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. That opens on--- Miss HINE. The foyer, little hall, and--- Mr. BALL. Steps lead down? Miss HINE. Yes, sir; but there is a door before the steps and the elevator is to my left and I went past the hall that goes to my right and I knocked on the door of Lyons and Carnahan; that's a publishing company. Mr. BALL. What did you do then? Miss HINE. I tried the door, sir, and it was locked and I couldn't get in and I called, "Lee, please let me in," because she's the girl that had that office, Mrs. Lee Watley, and she didn't answer. I don't know if she was there or not, then I left her door. I retraced my steps back to where the hall turns to my left and went down it to Southwestern Publishing Co.'s door and I tried their door and the reason for this was because those windows face out. Mr. BALL. On to Elm? Miss HINE. Yes; and on to the triple underpass. Mr. BALL. I See. Miss HINE. And there was a girl in there talking on the telephone and I could hear her but she didn't answer the door. Mr. BALL. Was the door locked? Miss HINE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. That was which company? Miss HINE. Southwestern Publishing Co. Mr. BALL. Did you call to her? Miss HINE. I called and called and shook the door and she didn't answer me because she was talking on the telephone; I could hear her. They have a little curtain up and I could see her form through the curtains. I could see her talking and I knew that's what she was doing and then I turned and went through the back hall and came through the back door. Mr. BALL. Of your office, the second floor office? Miss HINE. Yes; and I went straight up to the desk because the telephones were beginning to wink; outside calls were beginning to come in. ________________ Dixie

Robin.... I had some additional thoughts in regard to Harry Olsen. For one thing, how would he be any good at a security post, with a busted knee-cap? Of course, it might also have been a job where hardly anything ever actually happens, yet someone needs to just be there. He seemed to have worked a long shift that day too...7:00 am to 8:oo pm. I don't recall if it was mentioned how he got to work that morning, but he did walk back to Kay Coleman's Apt, about 4-5 blocks away, after he got off work. Kay was using his car that day and even though he did say he had a hard time walking back, because of his knee problem and also in a cast and he did have to use his cruthches some. Plus his leg was swollen by the time he got to the apt. Under the circumstances, I just think it strange that he didn't call Kay to come pick him up. It wasn't so far, yet with his bad leg it probably was. My thoughts are that he did not want his own car seen around where he was working! On Dec 7th Harry was involved in a car accident and taken to Methodist Hospital. His leg was re-injured plus other areas. I had a feeling that Chief Curry would have their hide for moonlighting at any sort of "Dens of Iniquity." So, could be this is actually what did happen! Harry, was on the DPD for about 5 1/2 years and then at the end of that Dec. he was let go from the DPD. He then married Kay and they moved to CA where he worked in a Finance Company. This is the WC testimony....... Mr. Specter. When did you end your employment with the Dallas Police Department? Mr. Olsen. The latter part of December. Mr. Specter. What was the reason for leaving the Dallas Police Department? Mr. Olsen. I wanted to come to California. Mr. Specter. Nobody at the Dallas Police Department asked you to leave? Mr. Olsen. Yes, sir. Mr. Specter. Who asked you to leave the Police Department? Mr. Olsen. Chief Curry. Mr. Specter. What was the reason for that? Mr. Olsen. I was out of sick time; in other words, you are allotted so much sick time a year, and he didn't want to extend me any more. Mr. Specter. Was that the only reason why he asked you to terminate your employment with the police department? Mr. Olsen. That was one of the reasons. Mr. Specter. Was there any other reason? (Long pause.) Mr. Olsen. I don't remember exactly what was said. Mr. Specter. Was there any special reason why you went to California? Mr. Olsen. We heard the eliminate (sic) was nice out here. Harry was covering up something, because he was so vague and didn't remember things he should have. In addition, although this gets into another area, that I am also exploring, he lied about it. Harry had rented one of Bertha Cheeks many apartments. At some point, just before the assn., he put Bertha in touch with Jack Ruby about a Nightclub Venture that Jack had in mind. Bertha did meet with Jack, just days before the assn., although she didn't really like the terms of his proposal, so she declined to invest. Bertha, was Earlene Robert's sister, who was the housekeeper where LHO resided on Beckley St. In Harry Olsens WC testimony, he denied any knowledge of Bertha and that is real curious to me as to the reason! Here is the testimony..... Mr. Specter. Do you know a Bertha Cheek? Does that name ring a bell with you? Mr. Olsen. Yes, sir. Mr. Specter. Who is she? Mr. Olsen. I have heard the name. Can you help me a little bit with it? Mr. Specter. Well, do you recollect anything about her at this moment? Mr. Olsen. No, sir; I have heard the name, though _________ Dixie

Robin, For some time I had suspected that in addition to the so-called, Safe Houses on Hollandale, one near the Red Bird Airport and the one on Beckley, right behind where LHO lived, that Olsen was actually guarding another one on 8th Street. I also suspected that may have actually been where LHO was headed. However, I have been unable to substantiate these thoughts. So try one of these possibilities....425 E 8th Street or 431 E 8th Street. The house (Estate) that Olsen was guarding was possibly at, 425 E 8th Street, and was actually a High Stakes Gambling House. In addition Harry Olsen,was also known as a gambler. Earl Golz says that Jack Ruby brought out-of-town gamblers to the place at 425 E 8th St. Plus an undercover officer says that Jack Ruby, got a cut out of what the gamblers lost, when he brought them over there. The owner (s) of 425 E 8th Street were, George Gardere and Cruger Ragland. Gardere, was a law partner of, Wynne, Jaffe and Tinsley. Ragland, was an Insurance Agent whose father (Alphonsus) had served on the Dallas Crime Commission with Earle Cabell. _____________________________________ In addition to the house (estate) at 425 E 8th St, there was another house that could also have been regarded as the estate. This one was at 431 E 8th St. The owner was shown to be, W.W. Davidson, who worked for years, at Magnolia Oil Co. _____________________________________ Note: Lots of connections with the White Russians Group, to Magnolia Oil Co ______________________________________ Some so-called, "plumbers" named Johnson use to hang out there, like Tommy Johnson and his cousin D.H. Fadin and both were related to Davidson. Did these plumbers work for the Beard Co, (Construction) which contracted for work with the Wallace Co, (Plumbing) Actually they were both adjoined as The Wallace & Beard Co. and also on 8th St...about 8 blocks from the two so-called (estates). Plus, Then we also have testimony from Howard L. Brennen, that he worked for the the Wallace & Beard Co!! OR Were these so-called plumbers, actually as Pres Nixon's, White House "plumbers?" Were they needed as contingincies, if needed by the gambling operation next door? Operators of high stakes gambling might want to acquire a property adjacent, so there would be no neighbor to complain and perhaps they were also involved. Thus, the 400 block of E 8th Street would be regarded as a "safe block" where gambling was going on at 425 and where perhaps the Johnson plumbers were ready for any "dirty work" from 431. So, 425-431 could be regarded as a single location. ______________________________________ All the information comes from what is referred to as the Dallas Underground by researchers, Prof Bill Pulte, Greg Lowrey and Ken Holmes, Jr and was included in Harry Livingstone's lstest book, "The Radical Right and the Murder of John F Kennedy." (2004) Dixie

Quoted from Steve above..... Supposedly, the driveway between these two houses connected to the alley in the back. I'm sorry, I can't remember where I read this, but one or more witnesses at the Tippit shooting, who were not among the official witnesses listed or interviewed by the Warren Commission said that another Dallas Police car was coming down that driveway, and when Tippit drove by, the other police car backed up and left by the alley. Steve Thomas ______________________________________ In Jan, I posted this and decided to repeat it, in case some didn't read it. It is from JFK/DPQ and also from Harrison Livingstone's, "The Radical Right and the Murder of John F Kennedy"...(2004) Dixie ____________________________________ A woman, by the name of Mrs. Doris Holan, lived at 409 E Tenth Street, She lived upstairs directly across the street and her windows looked directly on Tippit's Patrol car and the murder scene. Mrs Holan has been an unreported witness all these years. Yet she was dying of terminal cancer and talked to Dallas Researcher Michael Brownlow prior to her death in 2000. She met with Brownlow twice and once accompanied with reseracher Prof. BIll Pulte. Mrs Holan had just returned home from her job that morning, a few minutes after 1:00, then she heard gun shots. She hurried to her window and saw Tippit's patrol car, across the street and parked in front of the driveway between 404 and 410 E. Tenth Sreet. Tippit was lying on the street, near the left front of the car. She saw a man leaving the scene, moving westward towards Patton. Mrs Holan also noticed something else that had not previously, ever been reported. A second police car in the driveway, which went all the way back to the alley, moving forward slowly towards Tippit's car on Tenth. Near the police car she also saw a man in the driveway walking toward the street where Tippit was parked. She went downstairs at once and over to Tippit. The man in the driveway continued to the street, walked in front of Tippit's patrol car, paused and looked down at Tippit's head, and retraced his path up the driveway. At the same time, the police car changed direction and backed up in the driveway to the alley running parallel to Tenth, behind the houses on 404 and 410. In 1963, the driveway could be entered from the alley from the rear, as well as from Tenth. Because Tippit's car was parked in front of the Tenth Street entrance, the alley provided the only passage from the driveway for the driver of the police car. Mrs. Holan's account of a second police car is supported by the comments of Sam Guinyard, who told Brownlow in 1970 that he saw a police car in the alley shortly after the police shooting. The man in the driveway was apparently also seen by others: a resident of the neighborhood, who wishes to remain anonymous, told Prof Pulte, in 1990, that he had heard about a man in the driveway who approached Tippit's car. ___________________________________ Another thought...Earlene Roberts saw a police car stop and honk in front of the boarding house on 1026 N Beckley, where LHO lived.... at around 1:03. Tippit was shot at around 1:10 to 1:16 at the latest. This could possibly have been the police car she saw. Dixie

I just feel a need to add my own 21/2 cents worth to this discussion! Well, bottom line is that I do not agree with Tim's theory. However, for awhile I read all of both Tim an R Charles Dunnes posts and was enjoying the discussion. I had never actually read much in regard to Castro Did It, or the KGB did it. I have never actually believed this to be true and yet the thought had crossed my mind, through the years, as a possibility. I did read Gus Russo's book, LIve By The Sword, when it first came out. Since it was quite some time back, I am not able to actually recall all that much about it, except that I just didn't agree with a lot of his claims, as I was reading it. I have not read Trento's book and can only go by what Tim says about it. The debate that has transpired here was something that I have wanted to read. I wanted to know the pros and cons of whether Castro or the KGB or Soviets did it. Tim did actually give me something new to think about. Yet from the discussions, I have not been convinced at all, as to his theories. I would say that my reasons have more to do with what Shanet has posted above. I do not believe the continuing cover-up would be possible if either Castro, the KGB or Soviets did it. In my own mind this theory just does not work! Although of course, I am not able to pinpoint who was the guilty ones......just mostly more speculations on my part. However, it just doesn't all add up to Castro etc, did it. I do believe there has been perhaps some confusion about Disinformation, including on this forum. I also do believe that the word "Misinformation" would be the more appropriate word to use. I could give out some info that I believe to be true, which may not actually be true at all. This is not Disinformation..it is Misinformation. There would be no deliberate attempt to deceive nor would there be any such agenda. It is simply a mistaken belief or theory...just wrong info. This is one example........I have often thought that LHO was caught in a trap and may even have been confused as to who was actually behind him. Similar to uncertainties Nagell expressed. He may have had certain info or even suspicion in regard to an upcoming assassination. Maybe LHO felt he needed to do something to not only stop this plan, but to get himself out from under any involvement. But,,,what could he do? Who could he trust? Who could he turn to? Anyone around him could be suspect, so who would even listen to him anyway? To do anything might even jeopardize him even more. He may or may not actually have gone to Mexico as has been indicated. He may or may not have actually gone to the Cuban and Russian Embassies. Yet, supposing that he did so, perhaps he was trying to get some help from those he believed less likely to be involved in this assn. plan. Who else could he trust to perhaps at least help him get out from under any involvement and maybe even to make an attempt to stop the whole thing...maybe like in the way of an abort team, for example. Now, this is only some wild speculation (or imagination) on my part and I certainly am not trying to claim this is what transpired. This is not meant to be disinformation, nor is there any thought as to an agenda. In my mind it could be a possibility and yet it could also just be misinformation. It just isn't something I am trying to push on anyone..it is only some, "in the back of my mind, thoughts." So what I am wanting to get across is that wrong info one suggests or speculates does not automatically indicate the person is putting out Disinfo. Although, I do know there is a share of that goes on too, in all forums. But, many of us are able to figure out any attempts to deceive and separate it from just misinformation. Anyway, I did enjoy the discussion between Tim and Charles Dunne. I did learn from both. But now, I agree it is getting too repetitious, plus with the different threads starting up, are becoming a bit too much. I also do not see much if any, support for Tims claims and yet I do not feel any wrong doing on Tim's part as regards Disinformation. I do feel one should stand up for their beliefs and yet at the same time, especially in JFK Research, to continue studying and to look again at our beliefs from time to time. Especially when we hear something new to us, we should be able to perhaps realize a whole different theory then we previously had. I know that I have needed to change my opinion in various areas through the years and sometimes that isn't so easy to do either. ___________ Dixie

Quote from Dawn Ask yourself just why LBJ refused to leave without the body, and why he literally forced Jackie to be at his side as he was sworn in. He knew better. (Then for good measure, check out Valenti's wink AS LBJ is being sworn in.) Just my idle musings....could all be just one big string of coincidences, no? ___________________________________ Hi Dawn... I just wanted to mention that is was not Valenti that winked at LBJ, at he swearing in...it was Cong.Albert Thomas. Here is a photo: http://www.umsl.edu/~skthoma/wink.jpg Regards, Dixie

Quote from above: Also remember that a Dallas Police officer was slated to die long before JD Tippett was killed. Hi Shanet, I am most curious and wondering where you obtained the above info. It is one thing I never heard before! Dixie Dixie The possibility of return fire and the possibility of a Dallas policemen dying in the action was a planned part of the sequence. I cannot point to any single document or testimony, Dixie, but I have come to believe this is true from the general circumstances. This is a fairly speculative, theoretical approach for me, but I do believe it is true...and would explain quite a bit. Basically Oswald was supposed to kill the arresting officer, one, and two, a uniformed gunman is seen in the photo near the blood stain. It has been suggested that a wounding by return fire, or friendly fire, occured and was covered up .... any Dallas cop who was in danger of bolting the CAROUSEL program was probably at risk that day, etc. The South American Police ringer murder plan is a fairly firm concept, historically ...sorry I cannot be of not more help. >>>>>>> PS Eugene's post today on Tippitt on the DID THE BIG FISH KNOW presents a theory related to my line of thought...best wishes T Hi Shanet.. Thanks for your reply! I do believe that to be a speculative theory. However, I do know a researcher, who was working on a speculative theory (his words) that Tippit was behind that fence in some capacity and was shot, accidently or otherwise. Then he was placed in his patrol car and driven to 10th & Patton. I do know a witness came forward in recent years, just before she died....and said that she saw a cop car come through the driveway between those two houses, from the alley. She did see a person get out of the car and walk around to the front of Tippits patrol car, to check him out. But, then he could also have been leaving the scene, from Tippit being driven there and the driveway cop car picked him up. Then the car backed up and went back through the alley. Whether all prearranged in order to frame LHO, I don't know, But, Harry Livingston said in his latest book that he believes Jack Ruby was used to pre-gather witnesses to Tippit being shot right there. I do know that many of those witness have traced back in various ways to Jack Ruby, not to mention their conflicting testimonies. I don't personally agree or disagree with any of the above, although I have been attempting to look for clues along these lines to see if at least possible or impossible. Dixie

QUOTE by Shanet Clark Jack White The use of uniforms or false uniforms would indicate a central or south american strategic planning element...i.e. the Nelson Rockefeller influenced western hemisphere plans department of the CIA, and the United Fruit / Guatamala veterans. Also remember that a Dallas Police officer was slated to die long before JD Tippett was killed. Any return fire that killed a police officer, by aggressive secret service officers or an "abort team" would have killed a, well, police officer, and could be written off as "friendly Fire" I don't know much about Rosco White but this whole line of inquiry points in that direction..... UNQUOTE ____________________________________ Quote from above: Also remember that a Dallas Police officer was slated to die long before JD Tippett was killed. Hi Shanet, I am most curious and wondering where you obtained the above info. It is one thing I never heard before! Dixie

Tim, this is the info I found...... Dixie _____________________________________ As a TWA jet from St. Louis descended 25 years ago toward Kansas City, a passenger's scrawled note prompted a startling change of course. Claiming to have a bomb, the passenger demanded the DC-9 be turned around and flown instead to Carbondale, Ill., not far from one of America's toughest federal prisons. Co-pilot Lyle Mitchell quickly retracted the jet's landing gear, raised the flaps and boosted power to the engines. Pilot James Miller quietly entered a code into the transponder, a device that helps air traffic controllers track planes. The code signaled that Flight 541, which carried 87 persons, had been hijacked. It was only four days before Christmas 1978. Pilots at that time were trained to comply with the demands of hijackers, who were terrorizing the skies that decade. Besides, Miller and Mitchell knew they couldn't do anything about a bomb. And they didn't have a gun and unlike hundreds of today's commercial pilots in the United States who have undergone special training within the last year and now pack semiautomatic pistols. Looking back, Miller wishes he'd had one. There's no doubt in my mind, I would have shot (hijacker) Robyn Oswald if I had a chance. the Independence native said recentl Of course, then my life would have changed forever, because I would have taken a life. Hijacking Family Back in 1978, Miller and Mitchell stayed in the cockpit while Oswald a 17-year-old high school dropout from suburban St. Louis commandeered the plane's back rows. The hijacker communicated through notes handed to flight attendants. Oswald said she had dynamite taped underneath her bulky sweater. Witnesses said wires ran from a row of sticks to a triggering device, which resembled a door bell. On the ground, FBI agents scrambled to learn whether the bomb could be real. On the plane, two passengers, both Naval Academy graduates, told the crew that it sure looked real. Oswald's motive? To free GARRETT BROCK TRAPNELL, who was serving a life sentence at the federal penitentiary in Marion, Ill., for a 1972 hijacking. The day Oswald hijacked Flight 541, Trapnell was in an Illinois courtroom facing charges of attempted escape. Seven months earlier, Oswald's mother, Barbara Ann Oswald, hijacked a helicopter and ordered the pilot to land inside the maximum-security prison to pick up Trapnell and two other inmates. The pilot wrested away her gun, then killed her, before regaining control of the helicopter. After her mother's death, Robyn Oswald continued contact with Trapnell through letters and at least one prison visit, her former attorney said. Trapnell, the attorney said, told Oswald what to do. She was going through a very bad time with the loss of her mom, attorney, Donald L. Wolff said, He played upon he as if she were taking her mom's place. In a sense, she was trying to do what she thought her mom would have done. In the cockpit, Miller and Mitchell knew none of this. All they knew was that the string of hijackings that had shocked America in the 1970s was continuing. And for the first time, they were hostages. Passengers Unaware Oswald delivered her hijack note when the plane was only eight miles from touching down in Kansas City. As the plane turned away from Kansas City, Miller said nothing to his passengers. Many wondered what was happening, however, when two flight attendants began moving people from the back rows forward. Because the plane was full, the attendants raised armrests and packed four passengers into where there had been only three. Oswald, who had ordered the seats near her cleared, stayed in the back. But the runways at Carbondale wouldn't handle the big DC-9. Through another note, Oswald told Miller to land at Marion instead. Miller asked another airline's crew for proper radio frequencies and other landing details for that airport, at which he'd never landed. Of course, everyone (in the air) knew what was happening, he said. Everyone except the passengers, that is. They finally learned they had been hijacked when Oswald insisted the pilots pipe their radio transmissions through the passenger cabin so she could hear the conversations. Unknown to her, the pilots still talked discreetly with TWA officials on a second radio. After landing at Marion, the pilots parked the plane at the end of the runway, far from the terminal. The plane, which should have landed in Kansas City at midmorning, sat on the tarmac until well after dark. “We talked to FBI, you know, asking what's going to happen if five sticks of high-impact explosive go off, Miller recalled.They said, Wait one minute, we'll have to check on that. Well, we think it will be total devastation. The plane will be destroyed. Well, wait one minute. We'll have to get back with you.' We had a half of dozen of these (conversations). We decided we would have to sit there and wait. Worried that his partially full fuel tanks would worsen any explosion, Miller kept the engines going until they ran dry. Although the December weather was cold, the passenger cabin grew uncomfortably stuffy and hot. I figured she was going to suffocate everybody. said Barnett Helzberg, who was returning to Kansas City from Cincinnati and sat not too far from Oswald. Earlier in the flight, Helzberg had watched her point out a window and ask someone, What's that? as they approached Kansas City, then dash to the rest room to write her hijacking note. Oswald set a deadline for Trapnell to be freed. It passed without incident. Eventually, she agreed to release elderly passengers and babies in exchange for food. The plane's now-open door and ramp tempted some remaining hostages, especially since a forward bulkhead blocked Oswald's view of the opening. At one point, Helzberg strolled toward the door simply to seek relief from the hot cabin. Another passenger asked whether Helzberg was ready to get out. Helzberg balked. We were scared she would blow up the plane if she saw people on the runway he recalled I said, You go check with the captain. Retelling the moment, Helzberg paused. I've never been known for courage,said the retired jewelry chain president, who now leads his own foundation. The pilots already had plotted a plan that called for some passengers to stand and stretch, further blocking Oswald's view, while others escaped. Once he learned the pilot approved, Helzberg bolted. He slogged through a marsh before a van without lights approached and took him to the terminal. With the hijacking more than nine hours old, a speaker in the Federal Aviation Administration command room in Kansas City crackled with unexpected news: Passengers were leaving the plane in unstructured pairs.The trickle continued for more than a half hour. Before long, only a few hostages remained. Oswald suddenly realized something was wrong. The few people still standing to block her view ran, leaving only one passenger with Oswald. Miller remembers yelling at him to get off. The pilots also fled, and the FBI boarded. Agents quickly subdued Oswald. Instead of dynamite, she carried only harmless railroad flares Tried as a juvenile, Oswald spent 22 months in a treatment program. Her former attorney ran into her a few years ago at a shopping mall.She was a mother and doing fine Wolff said. Trapnell, who once bragged he would escape, died of emphysema in a Springfield prison hospital in 1993. Today, Miller admits that confronting Oswald would have been difficult. She was not getting out of that seat back there. said Miller, now of Hot Springs, Ark.I couldn't go back there with a gun if she had a bomb. If I go back there, she's liable to blow the whole thing up But having a gun at least gives pilots options, he said. For example, he could have passed a gun to a trusted individual, such as the flight attendant, who could have gotten close to the hijacker. Yeah, I'd love to have had one Miller said. You bet your life. By DONNA McGUIRE The Kansas City Star ____________________________________ Just a little extra...... a lovely Soap Opera Star from The Guiding Light and Search For Tomorrow, was a Pen Pal of Trapnells. He first wrote to her and told her that she looked like his wife! MySnowAngels.com http://www.mysnowangels.com/stories/acting/pen_pal.shtml

Yes, there is more to that Liggett story! After he supposedly died, his ex wife was on a trip to Las Vegas. While in a Casino, she looked up and saw Liggett working, as a Pit Boss (I am thinking it was) He also saw her, but he turned around and walked the other direction, so as not to have to be confronted by her. She also knew that he did love to be around gambling, yet he was also suppose to be dead. She believe his death was staged and he was relocated in a witness protection program. At some point a woman from her church befriended her, seemingly out of the blue. I don't recall what transpired from this friendship. However, a photo was found that seemed to be at a Night Club (maybe the Carousel). In the photo, sitting at a table was, Jack Ruby, Liggetts brother Malcalm and his wife and that woman who had befrieded her before. Not long ago, I believe I heard that Malcalm Liggett, denied that photo being him and his wife and was in fact suing someone, not sure who though. I may not have this all exactly correct, but this was it more or less. I have wondered if anyone had any updates to this story, since seen in TMWKK. Dixie

Well, I have to say I did not vote for JFK. I was a Nixon supporter, but at the time, I believed him to be a much different person then I believe he actually was today. But then, I am also a much different person today, then I was then. I was a fairly young wife and mother and was quite innocent and nieve and trusted Government.....plus I was very conservative and Republican. I did not usually see bad in people. But I just did not think very much of the Kennedy's. Actually though, I knew very little about JFK as a President, I just mainly didn't approve of their lifestyles. I do recall The Bay of Pigs, although I don't recall my thoughts about it at the time. Then there was the Missle Crisis! That, I do recall was a quite scary time for us. A friend of ours, got called to report to base immedialtely (Nellis AFB in Las Vegas). He had no idea what was happening, but when he returned home, he told us they were all set and just waiting for the word to fly to Cuba in a minutes notice. But, of course they did't have to go! We would not have knwon how close it was, until our friend told us about it. When JFK was assassinated, we lived in Las Vegas and had just bought our first home. As Richard mentioned about his mother, I was also watching As The World Turns. Suddenly, Walter Cronkite came on with a Special News Report. I can stil recall being somewhat annoyed that it interrupted my soap opera. But that was only a momentary thought, because of what I heard next. I was in shock! This couldn't be real, this was our president and such things don't happen in America! At that moment, it made no difference that I hadn't voted for him or what I thought of his lifestyle. It was just unbelievable. After a few minutes, I called my husband at work to see if he had heard the bad news. Both him and his boss were listening to it on the radio and he was just fixing to call me. We called back and forth all afternoon and I also recall just needing to talk to someone and didn't want to be alone. I believe when an announcement was made that JFK had died, I just had a terrible feeling he would not live. When my husband got home from work, we stayed glued to the TV all weekend. Well, actually I did so, more then he did. Then, that Sunday morning, I was getting the kids ready for Church and heard some commotion coming from the TV, in the other room. I hurried in to see what was happening and Jack Ruby had just shot Oswald. I missed seeing it as it happened, but of course, have seen a rerun many times. So, that gave me a lot more shock. I also kept wondering how such a thing could happen, with all the policemen around there. I have no idea why, but the more i heard the more I believed the whole thing was rather fishy. I just couldn't seem to believe all we were being told. This thought has never left my mind, although it was some time before I ever expressed my (secret) thoughts to anyone. However, I did read all I could find and one day discovered I was not alone in the thoughts I had. That gave me a lot of encouragement to continue studying what I was able to find...which was actually not a whole lot. Other the the Library or in case I accidently found a JFK related book in a book store, I had no idea how to obtain any of the books that were coming out at that time. So, it made no difference to me that i had not voted for JFK. I still had very strong feelings about what happened. Of course in time, I also began to view JFK in a different light then I had previously. Dixie