Dixie Dea

I also read A Certain Arrogancer, right after it was published. I did enjoy reading it, since it got into some areas of my own interest. I also agree it was not an easy read....I mean it was a lot to take in. I decided that I would want to re-read it again, which I am just about ready to do so again. After I read it though, I was wanting to know more and hoped someone would continue to pursue the research. I was also aware of Greg's previous work in this area and also enjoyed his work and would like to read more of it. I don't know if Greg remembers or not, but he and snother person and I had an exchange about the Albert Schweitzer College, on another forum, several years ago. Both had researched it much more then I had, but I believe I did offer a few things...like some former ASC students plus some former Instructors and their credentials. But I did enjoy the discussion very much and did learn quite a bit. I may still even have the posts we all had back and forth. Some time ago, I mentioned this on here, in a post to Charles Drago.... I made a discovery after reading A Certain Arrigance, that I have still been checking out, off and on. A lot of it has to do with only my own suspicions though, so it might not pan out as I am suspecting. There is some info regarding C D Jackson, in Evica's book, and I discovered that he was involved some, in the interracial couple, Barney and Betty Hill's Alien Abduction claims. It was at a several hours meeting with this couple, as well as a couple of other guys..one from MIlitary Intelligence, who was supposedly a friend of the Hills. that the suggestion was planted for the Hills to be hypnotized. It has been thought that perhaps the Hills had so-called repressed memories planted through hypnosis. Jackson, was around the Dulles era of faciism, Project Paper Clip and flying machines and Eugenics and mind control etc. As for that party at Everett Glovers place, Glover was not there and neither was Michael Paine. Ruth claimed that she and Michael sang Madrigal songs in a group, with Evererrt Glover and he thought she might enjoy meeting the Oswalds because of her Russian interests. Some raason he or Michael neither one, wera able to be there though. Michael did finally meet the Oswalds when Ruth invited them to her place for dinner and MIchael picked themn up at their apartment and drove them there for the evening. I do not think that Schmidt and Michael Paine were roommates, but Schmidt was a roommate of Everett Glover. ______________ Dixie

I don't know Bill...that is suppose to be an HSCA photo of Vallee. But then maybe they got it wrong, which wouldn't really surprise me any. I do wish we were able to find out for sure though. I have Douglass's nww book, but haven't gotten too far in it yet. Dixie

Kathy... Here is a link to a photo of Thomas Arthur Vallee. IMO he looks nothing at all like Oswald. HSCA-070-vallee.jpg http://www.cuban-exile.com/photo/hsca-mugs...-070-vallee.jpg Dixie

Duke, I have not yet found the William Lawrence Smith interview. The only clues I have found is from Dale Myers and John Armstrong, as noted below. (FBI Files, Brookhart interview on 1/13/64) IN addition, I am now thinking that both WA Smith and Burt gave conflicting reports at different times. (Interview of Burt by SA Christianson and Acklin 12/16/63)) In addition, Armstrong notes that LHO was still nearby his Boarding House (seen at the bustop by Earlene Roberts around 1:00) The Barbershop was called the 10th Street Barbershop. The Barber claims he also saw that person walk by the shop, that WL Smith saw. Armstrong also places that Town and Country Cafe at 604 E 10th Street. Smith and Burt were visiting at 505 E. 10th Street....or he was actually living there. Dixie _________________________________ FBI interview of WILLIAM A. SMITH http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/smith_w.htm WC Testimony of William Smith http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/smith.htm FBI interview of JIMMY EARL BURT (SA Christain & Ackler....12/1/63) http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/burt.htm ___________ Papers of Jim Garrison Box 2 http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/findi...son-papers.html Interview of Jimmy Earl Burt by Al Chapman [Transcript; audiovisual material transferred to NWCS-Motion] 10th.Street. Motion Picture, Sound, and Video Research Room in College Park, MD http://www.archives.gov/research/formats/v...cture-room.html __________________________________ Dale Myers INTRO FAQ PAGE http://www.jdtippit.com/html/intro_faq.htm In With Malice I offered the detailed accounts of Jimmy Burt, William A. Smith, Jack R. Tatum, Helen Markham, and William Scoggins as supportive of the theory that Oswald changed his direction of travel leading to the confrontation with Tippit. A sixth witness to Oswald's direction of travel, William Lawrence Smith, was discovered among FBI files after publication of my book. William Lawrence Smith, a brick mason foreman working at an apartment complex one block east of the Tippit shooting scene, walked to lunch and passed a man he believed was Oswald heading west on Tenth. Jimmy Burt and William A. Smith were standing across the street from the apartment complex around the same time. Burt said that he saw Oswald walking west across the street. Smith couldn't confirm that Burt saw Oswald (Smith himself didn't see the man walking prior to the shooting), but wouldn't discount it either. __________________________________ John Armstrong November 22, 1963 http://home.wi.rr.com/harveyandlee/November/November_22.htm William Lawrence Smith was walking east toward the Town and Country Cafe (604 E 10th) a few minutes after 1:00 pm. Smith "felt sure that the man who walked by him going west on 10th St. was Lee Harvey Oswald" (interview of Smith by Brookhart 1/13/64). At this time, approximately 1:04 PM, "Harvey Oswald" was a mile away --- seen by housekeeper Earlene Roberts standing at the bus stop on the corner of Zang and Beckley. Jimmy Burt, across the street from the construction site where W.L Smith was working, watched the same man as he came from the direction of the Town and Country Cafe and continued walking west on 10th. Burt described him as a white male, approximately 5'8", wearing a light colored short jacket (interview of Burt by SA Christianson and Acklin 12/16/63). Burt watched as the man passed them and continued walking west toward Patton. As the man approached Tippit's patrol car, Tippit rolled down his passenger side car window and spoke to this man. William Arthur Smith was with Burt at the time and described the same man seen by he and Burt as "a white male, about 5'7" to 5'8", 20 to 25 years of age, 150-160, a white shirt, light brown jacket and dark pants (interview of Smith by SA Ward and Basham 12/13/63). Both Burt and Smith watched this unknown man as he walked toward Patton, approached the squad car, spoke with Tippit, and then shot him.

From what I have seen, most every account of William A Smith and Jimmy Burt says the same things. But apparently it seems to be wrong info, that has just been repeated from an initial source. I don't believe either Smith or Burt was wanting to get too onvolved, since Smith was on probabtion and Burt was AWOL. However, I believe the confusion has to do with a different William Smith (William Lawrence Smith). He was a Bricklayer Mason Foreman, working at an Apartment Complex site, which was apparently across from where William A Smith and Jimmy Burt, were hanging out that day, at Burt's brothers place. At 1:00 PM William L Smith knocked off for lunch and walked to the Town and Country Cafe, two doors west of the 10th Street Barber Shop. While walking east to the cafe a man, who he later identified as Oswald, walked passed him heading west-toward 10th & Patton. ______ Dixie

For those who have never been summoned for Jury Duty, don't rule it out! This is my own Jury experiences, which will be a little bit of humor and a little bit of seriousness. For many years I never received a summons. Yet, I was one of those that was wanting to have that experience. So, one day I was talking to my sister, on the phone and she mentioned she had to go for Jury Duty the following day....and what a pain it was to have to take off work. I told her about never even receiving a summons and was one of those wanting to go. The very next day, I went out to get my mail and lo and behold, there was my very first jury summons. I couldn't believe it, but I did wonder who had been tapping my phone....:-) Of course, I did go and was actually chosen to be on a jury. ...and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Although, I also felt it was rather stressful, when trying hard to pay attention. Once, I started having a hard time keeping my eyes open, but then the Judge saved me, by calling for a short recess. Another time, something about the air conditioing, caused me to have a coughing spell. It did attract attention and I was quite embarrased. Some on the jury, did give me a sympathetic look and one also gave me a cough drop. Then, the Baliff brought me a glass of water. But again, fortunately the Judge called for a recess and I got okay then. I was afraid he was going to kick me off the jury....:-). But as soon as we were all seated, a juror next to me started coughing...but then she got over it right away. The last time I went, I made it to the jury selection for the questioning, but they got enough before I was ever called. Although it took all day and we had to return the next day, but I got to leave early. However, that particular Judge allowed bottled water or soft drinks in his courtroom, which I though was a good thing, for our dry throats. The worst part was that we could not discuss the case among each other for three days. There are things that occur, which you just feel a strong desire to at least mention...like maybe somethng funny was said. But you just have to refrain from it. Plus for the most part, you have to constantly be on guard to remain expressionless, when any one conneceted, is encountered. Yet your natural inclinition would usually to be to smile and maybe say, hi. You just have to be very, very careful. Throughout the trial, maybe you are buying eiher the Prosecution or the Defence and you can't help wondering if the others are thinking the same as you are about it. You even wonder about, what if you might be the only hold out and if you would be able to see their reasoning or not. As soon as the case is handed to the jury to ponder the verdict and as soon as the door is shut, it is like a dam has burst. All your pent up thoughts, feelings and emotions can finally be shared. Once we discovered we had felt that an Asst DA was saying some absolutely rediculous comments and found out that we had all felt that it had been hard to keep a straight face. Since that first time, I have received a jury summons every year and have actually served on three juries. In each one, the jury took a ballot immedietely, to see what page we were all on. On my last jury, we only had one person who had a different opinion. But none of us tried to browbeat her. On that particular case, I believe it was only eight that had to agree and that woman was the only one of the twelve, that did not vote the same as the rest of us did....which was okay though. The Jury parking area around my local courthouse is a real big problem, plus there is sometimes a train that will hold you up and it is quite a long walk too. So, I always took a cab and had no such problems at all. This has not happened with me, but with several friends when they were on a jury. Some friend or relative of the person on trial, has atempted to have an exchange.....like for example, to ask if you can make change for their twenty dollars. Or they might ask if you would loan them a dollar. They sometimes think of many schemes, which could have many obvious inplications. All you can do is ignore them, without a word, turn around and walk away from them. Many instances it also needs to be reported, although if minor, most just disregard it and hope no one else saw it. The last jury summons I received, it was necessary for me to get a Medical excuse. This actually disppointed me. because I am one of the strange ones that really did enjoy serving on a jury. Although, I don't think I would feel the same if it was a horrendos type of Court Case or one that went on for weeks. I just thought I would share some of my jury experiences with those who have never been on a jury. If you are considered a friendly type person, it might not be so easy to wear a blank face or to appear to be aloof. Usually though you have some jury members who you can have lunch with and can discuss everything, except the current trial....usually the talk is about other juries you have served on. Heck, I even enjoyed that pre-selection, potential jury gathering room. Most everyone else was bored to death though. I enjoyed sitting on the nice, secluded patio and also the snack room and chatting with others. Once I met a man who had played bit parts in many big movies. He even had his scrapbook with him and showed some of his photos. I think he brought it to have things to talk about. He was quite an interesting person! I also should add that I have never seen the problems that I have heard about with other juries. Mine have always been smooth sailing between us. Any conflicts were always handled very well, by going over portions of testimony or perhaps re-watching a video several times. No one was ever hassled or pressured. I have a bad feeling that bad conflicts may be happening in Dr Wecht's Jury Room! _________ Dixie

QUOTE Oswald may well have been chosen to "infiltrate" such a group; his selection for the task could have seemed reasonable to him because of his successfully manufactured Communist past and because he had something of a genuine Mafia backround, largely through his Mafia uncle, Charles Murret. [Oswald was born in the crime-ridden section of the French Quarters of New Orleans: his childhood was sent in a Mafia controlled area of bars, strip joints, gambling house. In this area he often lived with hs mother's sister and her husband Charles "Dutz" Murret, who helpde run an illegal gambling network for Carlos Marcello. Charles Murret kept in close touch with Oswald throughout Lee's entire life. He visited Lee when he was in prison following his arrrest over the Free Cuba leaflet fracas, and stayed with him immediately after his return from the Soviet Union. And he kept in touch with Lee whilst he(Lee) was in the marines and the Soviet Union. "The Mafia Killed President Kennedy", David Scheim, WH Allen, '88, P 43] Oswald would then have had, through his uncle, ready contact with key Mafia elements. However, although intelligent, Oswald was through inexperience and its accompanying uncritical eagerness, very open to being conned UNQUOTE Hi Alaric, I enjoyed reading your information and am also enjoing reading this thread. In addition, I have had much interest in what was going on around Tippit. For a long time, I delayed reading Dale Myers book, because after reading Gerald Posner's book, I was no longer interested in more LN type books. However, I did finally decide to read it and was more pleasantly surprised, then I had anticipated. Unfortunately, I also agree with Bill Kelly, that Myers just doesn't go far enough, to answer many concerns or he minimizes many things as well. I haven't been able to make up my own mind if Oswald actually shot Tippit or not. In fact, I have changed my mind several times about that. However, my reason for replying has to do with your above clipped statements. I believe this part to be rather erroneous or perhaps only speculative. You gave David Scheim as a source, so I believe he is not correct. First of all, LHO was not born in the Feench Quarter and raisied around the Mob controlled environment. .His father, bought a house on Alvar Street, for the family in around 1938. Then his father, suddenly died 2-3 months before LHO was born, in 1939. Margaurite Oswald was not able to care for her three boys, plus she needed to work. She put the two older boys (John Pic and Robert Oswald) into orphanages and boarding homes. LHO was too young, so he mostly stayed with his Aunt Lillian and Uncle Dutz Murrett, until he was around four years old. Then he was also placed into an orphanage. He was much too young to be influenced by his Uncle Dutz's Mafia relationships. There is no proof that Uncle Dutz actually even paid al that muc attention to LHO. He had about four kids of his own to raise. Most likely though, his mother also had Mafia acquaintances and perhaps even dated some. Yet, he was still too young to be influenced any. But finally, his mother married Edward Eckdahl and the family moved to Fort Worth. The two older boys were placed at the Hunt-Chamberlain Academy...while LHO traveled around with his mother and stepfather. There is again no proof that LHO even saw Uncle Dutz, after they moved to Fort Worth, and as he was growing up. After his mother and stepfather divorced, they begin moving around in Fort Worth, quite a lot for some reason! Then when LHO was about 12 years old, his mother took him to New York, where they lived for awhile with John Pic and his family. Then LHO began his playing hooky from school and ran into problems about that. Eventually, his mother moved with him, back to New Orleans. This time they did live in the French Quarter among the Mob element. Yet, again no proof that LHO was influenced by any of it. In fact, he had different interests. Such as studying Marxism, studying astronomy and an interest in the Civil Air Patrol. It is assumed of course, they visited with his aunt and uncle Murrett, but again no proof that LHO was particularly close to Uncle Dutz His main interest was most likely in visiting his Murritt cousins. I also have to wonder why Uncle Dutz would have introduced LHO to the Mafia, any more then he would have LHO's older brothers, or his own kids. I would suspect that he might have kept that life separate from his private family life. Then, LHO went into the Marines, after trying and failing previously because of being underage. Although at one point LHO was stationed close enough to N.O., where he could have gone to visit his relatives, there is no indiaction that he actually did so. There is no proof of any contact with Uncle Dutz, whatsoever, from the time he went into the Marines until after he returned from Russia and much later moved back to N.O. from Dallas. When he first arrived there, he did stay with the Murrits until he found a job at Riley's. Then he borrowed some money from Uncle Dutz to rent an apartment, so Marina and little June could join him. Sometime later, one of his Murritt cousins, who was in a Jesuit Seminary, invited him there to make a talk. The Murrits did drive him and Marina there,which I am thinking was in Missisippi. Most likely LHO and Marina did go visit the Murrits occasionally, but again there is no proof that Uncle Dutz's mafia connections were ever discussed with LHO, at any time. Eventually LHO was arrested for that street fight with Bringuier. He did make a phone call to the Murrits , to get bailed out of jail. Only his female cousin was at home and she called one of her fathers friends, who did go bail him out. It was a very small amount though. Again no proof that Uncle Dutz was ever involved in this or any of LHO's activites, in any way. I do not see that Uncle Dutz ever influenced LHO's life towards the Mafia in any way. It might have happened, but there is just no proof that it did happen. As I mentioned above, he had four kids of his own to raise. Far as I am able to see, they all turned out to be respectable adults. A Priest, a Dentist, a Psychlogist and an Educater..who traveled around the world in her teaching and it is also believed by some, that she had CIA connections. I do hope that you will check into this more thoroughly, rather then just Scheims work. Plus, I do hope you will not regard my post as criticism, because i have enjoyed reading your thread. ________ Dixie

Bernice posted this: The Tenth Batch....from Fair Play.........further information within this article........ Document # 180-10087-10136 is a seven page report from the Chicago Field Office of the Secret Service on Thomas Mosley and Homer S. Echevarria. Information is supplied by an informant still unknown, the symbol number for this informant is 2-1-266. B..... _________________________________________________ Bernice It turned out that Informant #2-1-266 is actually Thomaz Mosley, himself. Besedes Homer Echeverria, I would like more info about Mosley. There are descrepencies as to who and what he realy was. What happened to him later and did he have a differnt name. ____________ Dixie

John Kelin... Welcome to the forum. It's very nice to see you here. As I mentioned in an above post, I have enjoyed your book, Praise From A Future Generation, very much. Through the years, I have also enjoyed your Online Fair Play Pub, and still continue to refer back to it. Thank you, Courtney, for contacting John and bringing him to join us. ______________ Dixie

I feel bad about this, but one important name in the book, I neglected to mention was Mark Lane. If I recall,.David Lifton was also in there. There were several others, including, Jim Garrison. Courtney....I believe it was also in about 1999, I read about The Fair Play online Magazine. I must have read about it in a Fourth Decade Publication, that I had subscribed to. I didn't have a PC at that time, but my daughter did. I ask her to look up that website and she did so, and printed out a copy of the entire Issue for that month. I was thrilled to death to get it. She also did the following month, but then I realized it took a lot of paper plus her ink supply. So, I mostly just let it go. Then, when I finally had a set up, I looked for Fair Play again and couldn't find it. However, in my mind, I was thinking it was called. Foul Play, rather then Fair Play. I did find a JFK Research Index Page that gave a whole lot of websites. Through that, I finally found fair Play again. Of course I started reading all the back issues right away and really did enjoy them. ______________ Dixie

Praise From A Future Generation, by John Kelin, is a most interesting book to read. I really enjoyed reading it. Yes, Vincent Salandria is in there, as one of the main First Generation Researchers. Also, his brother in law, Harold Feldman. They all formed a Researchers Discussion Group and had Get Togethers and also corresponded by phone or letter. A few of the ones discussed are: Shirley Martin, Mary Ferrell, Joachim Joesten, Maggie Field, Penn Jones Jr., Lillian Castellano, Leo Sauvage, Ray Marcus, Sylvia Meagher, Vincent Salandra, Harold and Irma (Immie) Feldman, Josiah (Tink) Thompson, Harold Weisberg and more. Quite different and most enjoyable! ________ Dixie

Tim: Thansk for your comments! James, Thanks also for the extra info....interesting!! Probably no realtion to William, but you never know. Bill: I have no idea where the Randles are today. But I have heard that Wesley Frazier was a neighbor of Dave Perry. True or not, I don't know. A thought anyway. Dixie

I have been rather reluctatnt to post this, because it might turn out to be misinfo. I have mentioned it on various forums before, but seemingly, I have been the only one that has ever heard of it. In addition, I do not know which JFK related book I did read it, which was a few years ago. It is just that it has always been in the back of my mind and I have not been able to find it again. What I did read was that the Randles...William and Linnie Mae, had been under investigation, even before JFK was assn. There was no other info other then that. Not why they were being investigated or by whom. However, at the time I read that, for some reason, I thought maybe William was a private gun dealer. or something in that order. If I can recall. he was some sort of salesman and happened to be working out of town that weekend. I also thought about suspicion of gun running and if possibly true, it sure could relate to certain testimony. I haven't known how to find out if any of this is possibly true or not...but I have still had it in the back of my mind for a long time. Of course, it is also possible that the Randle (Randal) under investigation was a different person and the writer of that book made an error. Wesley Frazier has reluctantly been interviewed a few times through the years, but I have never heard anything at all about the Randles, since Linnie Mae testified for the WC. One other thing, their mother, I believe her name was Essie Mae Williams, was also staying with them at the time. Her husband was in a Dallas hospital. In fact, I believe that is where Wesley was picked up, wihile visiting his stepdad, in the hospital....but they first went to the wrong hospital, looking for him. In addition, I believe that their mother also saw LHO through the window that morning, and said that she did not see LHO carrying anything. There is suppose to be a document about this, but I haven't located it yet. I have only found a refernece to it. _________ Dixie

Deleted...no longer pertains to thread.

Thanks Antti, I corrected it. Dixie

Hi Bill I don't know if this is of any benefit or not, but I found it in the Footnotes of Deadly Secrets (1992) Warren Hinkley & William Turner Chapter 5 The Secrets of the Brothers Kennedy pg 430.... #2 "Campbell worked under the cover of Marine Engineering and Training Corporation of Homestead, Florida; the 1962 incorporation papers gave its business as "offshore surveys." In addition to being an operational cover, MET was used for recruitment and training of CIA seagoing comnmandos. Cuban frogmen used in CIA infiltrations were signed up by the company and sent north for advanced underwater demolition training at a secret base called Isolation Tropic, located at an old Navy seaplane port on the Pasquolank River near Elizabeth City, North Carolina.' Dixie

I found a vague description of Gordon Campbell. From...Deadly Secrets (1992) Warren Hinkley and William Turner Pg. 126 In Februuary 1962,Ted Shackley arrived at JM/WAVE. The deputy director was Gordon Campbell, A TALL MAN WITH CLOSE-CROPPED SILVERING HAIR and a military bearing. Campbell oversaw the maritime branch which was vital to operations against the Cuban Island. He lived appropriately enough on a yacht berthed at the Dinner Key Marina in South Miami. Dixie

Thanks a bunch for all the Bertha Cheek info, James. I lost some of my Bertha files awhile back, (through carelessness) and am slowly working on them again. I had not heard some of what you mentioned. I did know that she had been married three times, besides Bogle Bell, Lloyd Cheek and also Harold Clark Sims, in 1961-1962. She may have married again after the Warren Commission. Waldron Litchfiled claimed she offered him a Business Proposal that would have required them to be married and he wasn't willing to go all that far. I don't know what that was sll about. However, I also felt they were both trying to distance themsleves from each other in their testimonies. I also felt they were both lying or covering up about something. Bertha owned Apartments, on Gaston and on Swiss.Although, the one on Gaston was torn down for a luxury apartment. So, I don't know if she also owned the new one on Gaston or not. Although, I did hear rumors she suddenly, (after the assn.) came into some money and bought a luxury apartment. Both Gaston and Swiss seems to have been quite a popular location to live, with a lot of the related players in this case. Whhether they lived in her apartment or others on those two streets, I don't know. I have had a suspicion that Bertha may have owned at least one of the Safe Houses. She did admit she had rented to a couple of Cubans...but claimed it was several years previous, in 1959-1960, but had no other info in that regard. When she saw LHO on TV, she thought she might have rented an apartment to him sometime previous. However, I can't work that into a timeline to believe that was true. Bertha had managed several Bars and Lounges in the past and was looking for one to invest in. A man named Bill Martin had one that she checked on, but he wanted too much just for an interst in it. So he did tell Jack Ruby about her looking for one. Jack called her and she went to discuss buying the Carousel, with him. Although she also claimed he had another one in mind, but wouldn't tell her where it was...because she might run and grab it out from under him. Evidently though, Jack was wanting to sell the Carousel...and as I mentioned in an above post, several believes she did either buy it or had plans to do so. That hasn't been verified though. But she claimed that whe wasn't agreeable to the terms, so she declined, at lest about the other club. Is it only a coincidence that he was trying to get rid of the Carousel, because of what might be ahead? Bertha's sister Earlene Roberts died of a heart attack in 1966. I don't recall what year Bertha died though. I was thinking it was a sudden death too. . Thanks again! Dixie

From....Deadly Secrets (1992) Warren Hinckle and William Turner Pg 244-246 Quote: "Two men stood under the flashing lights of the Carousel Club. The place was tacky enough-the type of place where Dallas attorney Carroll Jarnagin hoped to find a job for one of his clients, an exotic dancer who used the name Robin Hood. Tall and blond Jarnagin looked out of place as he and his out-of-work customer walked in and slid into a booth. A chess champion and student of such prodigious memory that he once scored 100 on a Southern Methodist University chemistry exam involving complicated formulae, Jarnagin would recall his October 4th, 1963, visit to Jack Ruby's club in precise detail. The day following the assassination of JFK. Jarnagin wrote a letter to J. Edgar Hoover reporting on the alleged meeting between Ruby and Oswald. In the dimly lit club Jarnagin recalls he noticed a rumpled young man in a winbreaker appear in the lighted entrance and ask for Ruby. The attorney believes he recognized him as Lee Harvey Oswald. Oswald had arrived from Mexico City the previous night. Jarnagin overheard the putative Oswald and Ruby talking in a nearby booth. Oswald said he had just gotten in from New Orleans. He needed money. "You'll get the money when the job is done," Ruby said adding that if there was a slip-up "they" would want all their money back or feel double-crossed. The job, Jarnagin remembered, was to shoot Texas Govenor John Connally, who, Ruby said, was not opening up the state to the rackets. "The boys in Chicago have no place to go, no place to really operate," Ruby complained. they've clamped down the lid in Chicago, Cuba is closed." According to Jarnagin, Oswald suggested that Bobby Kennedy ought to be hit. Ruby said no--the security in Washington was too tight. besides, his brother would stop at nothing to solve his death. It was Connally who had to go. When Oswald argued that killing the govenor would also bring plenty of "heat." Ruby replied, "Not really, they'll think some crackpot or communist did it, and it will be written off as an unsolved crime." (26) There were other credible reports of an Oswald=Ruby link, including that of a gara=ge owner who said Oswald drove Ruby's car, and an auto repairman, who said Oswald brought Ruby's car in for repairs." Unquote Footnote (26) Authors" interview of Carroll Jarnagin, Dallas, Sept. 21, 1966" Warren Commission Exhibit 2821 _______ Dixie

Steve. Your post regarding Bertha Cheek and Waldron Litchfield claiming to see LHO at the Carousel, isn't as they each testified to for the WC. The write up, seems to be like a composite. Although they were acquainted...(actually I believe they were more then acquainted) and both did apparently go to see Jack Ruby at the Carousel, they were not together either time. Litchield said he went there alone, around mid to late Oct. He did later claim to have seen LHO there. However, I don't find him to be very credible. Bertha Cheek, says she went to see Jack Ruby at the Carousel, in late Nov and took an old School Teacher friend with her by the name of Lula B Davidson. She did not mention seeing LHO there. Personally though, I believe both Litchfield and Bertha were covering up something and lied about it. The WC also was wanting to further investigate Bertha because they suspected she was involved with Jack Ruby's smuggling operation. But, I can't find whether they actually did imvestigte her or not. However, Litchfied did have a criminal past. In addition, I have also read a couple of times, that Bertha did actually make a deal to buy the Caousel, only a couple of days before the Assassination....even though she claimed in her testimony that she wasn't interested in Jacks offer to invest in a different Club. She didn't like his investment terms. Both Waldren and Bertha seemed to try and distance themselves from each other, yet in Jack Ruby's address book and under both of their names, they had the same phone number. Both their testimonies are rather interesting. I have been trying to research Bertha for a long time, and after awhile, (as in most all cases) hit a brick wall. For those who might not know....Bertha was a Real Estate Investor and also a sister to Earlene Roberts. Earlene was the Housekeeper where LHO was living on Beckley. . TESTIMONY OF MRS. BERTHA CHEEK http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/cheek.htm TESTIMONY OF WILBYRN WALDON (ROBERT) LITCHFIELD II http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/litchfie.htm Dixie

Kathy.. I don't know if this will be helpful to you or not, but when I try to evaluate controversial matters, I have to check out many sources. I could never read just one source and run with it as the truth. Sometimes it does get me confused more then ever, but still after awhile you can begin to separate fact from fiction. Sometimes a certain consistency will run through in all the sources. Of course, other times it is more like someons fantasy. I should also add that it is a very good idea to check the footnotes and try to find out where and from whom the information came from. Dixie

Gee Mike, that was very thoughtful of you to acknowledge Bernice, Myra and myself, as respected members of DellaRosa's forum...as well as, regarding our female intuition...:-) There are some other females of Rich's forum that would also agree with us. As to both Craig Lamson and John Simkin being banned from Rich's forum, we also know the reasons...but then, it is just not my inclination to tell these facts. But, in the case of Craig, I most likely don't need to state the reason anyway....although I have personally never had a conflict with Craig. I also don't believe Rich would ban anyone over just one incident. There have been some banned members (from all the forums) that I hated to see leave, but most of the time the whole forums applauds. Quite often, what I later hear from that person, is not the way it actually was. However, I also belive sometimes some things can be misunderstood or misintrepreted. As I previously mentioned, I am a member of several forums and actually enjoy them all. Each seems to have a different approach to various so-called theories. I personally find this to be quite necessary to my own ways of thinking. Or I should say, to not get bogged down in tunnel vision. Rich has extended an offer for all (except the paat banned membsrs) to join his forum. It is no longer necessary to pay the donation, as before. Although some still wish to do so, to help with his expenses of operating the forum all on his own. Rich is a good man, but he won't take any crap from disrupters. Some of you might find this to be humorous! At one time Bernice, Terry Mauro and I, were known as "Jack'S Girls" (Meaning Jack Ruby's Girls). Then since we three were about the only females on Rich's forum at that time, we decided to become known a s"Rich's Girls." This was mostly just for fun and not actually a part of the forum itself. Sometimes we would help Rich out with some project though. Then once Rich was interviewed on Black Op Radio. He mentioned Rich's Girls and even mentioned our names, as his helpers. We were surprised, but got a big kick out of that. But actually I think we mostly put a lot of laughs and humor in his life, since he is not a well man! But things change and also several other females began joining his forum, so we got away from that classification of being Rich's Girls....although sometimes we still joke about it. I do wish the Nix photo discussion and the other film discussion was on differnt threads, since I feel there is possibly more to discuss about that photo. Thanks again Mike! ____________ Dixie

Len Colby said... "As for DellaRosa I know nothing about except for his reputation for not allowing dissent on his forum, this suggests a narrow minded person locked into his beliefs to me. It's not a leap to image that such a person could be "a victim of creative memory"." I am a member of Della Rosa's forum and have been for several years, just as I have also been with several other forums. Len, you do not know what you are talking about, so why did you even bother? Rich runs a tight ship, but he is not dogmatic as you suggest. I have seen dissension on his forum, and in fact, have also not agreed with some things posted. I was never banned for disagreeing with anyone. Yet, I have also heard such rumors as you have stated. Rich does not bam anyone without cause! Most usually that has to do with excessive attacks on another member or with oitright dishonesty or in obvious attempts to smear someone.,,,or with constant desruptive remarks. There has been members who are LN's and who are able to state their own thoughts. Disgruntled banned members are those spreading such attacks against Rich. As for Rich seeing what is referred to as the other film...I believe he has actually seen it three tiimes. So I can't imagine he is having false memories. In addition, I know of at least four other persons who have seen this film. Although I am only assuming it is the same film they all viewed. I have read their statements in teh past, but no longer recall all they had to say about the other film. I do hope that I am not going to be regarded as just one of the alterationists, taking up for Rich's forum group. I am not into photos and especially not photo intepretations.I would hardly know a pixle if it reached out and hit me over the head....:-) It is just not among my own area of JFK research interest. ____________ Dixie

A few years ago, I was in Dallas and went out to dinner at Campisi's with a male friend. Others also planned to be there and we had intended joining them, but we got there early. By the time the group got there, we were in the middle of a most intereting JFK related conversation. None of the group noticed us, as they all went into another room. So, we just continued to stay where we were and continued talking. After we had dinner, he mentioned that he had something he wanted to show me, so he went out to his car to get it. When he got out there, he found his car door wide open. But what he went out to get was in his trunk. We both had remembered locking our car door...since it was a manual type lock. He was rather freaked out about that. Also in his trunk he had his VCR and a Video he had made of an Interview and none of the other researchers had seen it yet....just his closet JFK friends. He was going to let me view it when we got back to the hotel. Fortunately, it was not bothered. He told me about another time, he had left his Attache Case in his car and locked the door and went into some place. When he came back out to the car, his door was unlocked and his attache case was sitting on the seat, open and several papers were laying around it. But he said that he never did miss anything. I was rather freaked out for him to take out the VCR and Video when we got back to the hotel or when he left too. But he later said nothing had happened. Of course he did have copies of the Video anyway. Oh, actually as we pulled up at the hotel, we barely could see two or three guys sorta hidden in a dark area and when we stopped the car, they ran. But evidently that was to do with something else....probably they were doing drugs back there. But we were momentarily paranoid....:-) __________ Dixie

Hi Bill, I enjoyed reading your article, but I hate pulling down a whole thread into my posts. However, I need to point out some errors you made. First of all. you said this: "Ed Meyers and his companion Jean Aase moved from the Love Field Ramada to the Cabana because, Meyers later said, of the noise at the airport." So, it was actually Lawrence Meyers and not Ed Meyers. with his companion Jean Aase. Also, you have Betty McDonald mentioned a few timea, as Joy Dale. But she was actually Joyce McDoanld and not Betty McDonald. In addition, there is no proof that Ralph Meyers, (Lawrence's son) was in Dallas staying at the Cabana that weekend. In fact, Uncle Ed and Aunt Thelma had just been on a vacation to Mexico and visited with Rakph, while they were there. I believe it wa Penn Jones Jr. that came up with Rapph being there that weekend. One more thought......I don't recall for sure, but didn't Jack Ruby claim he had dnner with Ralph Paul at Campisi's that night? I believe there are about four different versions of who actually went there to dinner that night. Maybe Beverly Oliver was with Jack Ruby and Lawrence Meyers., but that actually make no sense at all. Why would they leave Jean Aase at the Cabana and instead take only Beverly? Now this is just an extra thought in regard to Homer Echevarria being at the Cabana. For all I know, what you said might be correct. But also, there is some discrepency! Chauncey Holt claimed that he was suppose to meet with Echevarria on the evening of Nov 21st, to give him some ID's, Badges and some weapons. But he somehow missed him. Then he was told to put the weapons in a pickup parked behind the knoll, which he did. Yet other places I have read that he did meet with Echevarria and gave him everything. However....I also know that Echevarriua was meeting with Thomas Mosley, (an Informant) in Chicago, that same day (Nov 21st).. This is when Echevarria was suppsoe to have said about they had plenty of (Jewish) money and as soon as they take care of Kennedy etc etc.... So, I fail to see how Echevarria could have been in Dallas. He didn't seem to have mentioned to Mosley, that he was headed for Dallas either. Of course, I suppose he also could have been flown to Dallas for that evening. Still, I am beginning to suspect that Echevarria was being set up, both in Chicago and in Dallas. _________ Dixie